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THUNDERSTORMS (Peaked at 1509 points)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Blue_Star, Jun 13, 2011.

  1. Blue_Star

    Blue_Star
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    763
    THUNDERSTORMS
    [​IMG]
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    ~Intro~

    Hi guys. After much researching, I discovered that the possible next ubers would be Garchomp and Thundurus. For this reason, I decided to make a sand team and a rain team to abuse those 2 (I didn't want to post the sand team, but you can check it on a warstory). Then, after a lot of tests, I ended up with this team. This team can be called as a "SpikeStacking" one. The idea here is to use entry hazards + bulky pokemon + hard hitting pokemon to beat down the opposing team. It also brought me to voting reqs, as you can see:
    [​IMG]


    Team Building Proccess

    [​IMG]
    So, I started with the SubPlot Thundurus, because it is, imo, the most broken Thundurus set.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    And to abuse a 100% accurate Thunder, I obviously needed rain, aka DrizzleToed. I don't like using the Specs version because it's not so durable.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Then I wanted Entry Hazards. My options were Skarmory, Ferrothorn and Forretress. I liked Skarmory's ability to wall sand threats, as well as Forretress spinning abilities, but I ended up using Ferrothorn due to its incredibly useful Electric and Water resistances.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    After that, I wanted a pokemon who could sponge Physical hits. Gliscor came to mind because it stops a lot of annoying physical threats such as Excadrill and Conkeldurr.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Ok, so now that I resist every type on the game and have a good defensive backbone (Ferrothorn + Gliscor + Politoed resist every common type), I decided to run more offensive pokemon. This Thundurus set I'm using tends to have problems with special walls like Jirachi and Tyranitar. Then I discovered a Latios set that deals with those (as well as resisting grass + electric, which is good for a rain team), so I picked Latios.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    So far, my team is extremely trolled by some special walls like Blissey and Ferrothorn, so I needed a physical sweeper. The only rain sweeper which is a fighter that I know is Toxicroak, who also provides some insurance against opposing rain teams, so I chose it.


    A CLOSER LOOK
    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Leftovers Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Encore
    - Perish Song
    - Protect


    Opinion: I just want to say that I hate politoed. Like, A LOT. I won't even use capital letters when writing its name. Seriously, look at it; it's dumb, not to mention weak. Why couldn't such an amazing ability have been given to a cool pokemon like Milotic I don't know. Anyways, I need to use it to abuse Thunder, so yeah.

    Moveset: The set I use is the supporttoed. I use this one because I feel that specstoed dies too easily and other politoeds are dead weight. Scald for main STAB and burning rate, Encore to troll pokemon who think they can setup on politoed, as well as to troll stuff like CM Reuniclus, who are slower. Perish Song is for forcing out pokemon, but it's also useful against Baton Chains and it can act as a win condition. Protect wastes a Perish Song turn, but also scouts for choiced attacks and gives Leftovers recovery.

    Spread: 252 HP for a lefties number and max overall bulk. 80 Def to ensure I'll survive Adamant LO Landorus Earthquake. The rest in special defense for maximum special bulk.


    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Power Whip
    - Thunder Wave
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock


    Opinion: With a much more solid looking than politoed, Ferrothorn is incredible. It has very useful resistances and can use them to set hazards that are very helpful for this team. It resists weakness of every member of this team too, which is also amazing.

    Moveset: Basic stuff here. Power Whip for STAB and to break certain pokemon that cause troubles for this team (hi Gastrodon), as well as laying a hurt on ground or rock or water pokemon, being useful against sand and rain teams. Stealth Rock is a basic hazard that every team should have imo. Spikes are a more sofisticated hazard but also helpful because it helps Latios, who can, with them, achieve interesting 2HKOs. Thunder Wave is mainly a filler, but also helps my team by slowing down stuff like opposing Latios and much more.

    Spread: Maximum HP for maximum overall bulk. 60 Def EVs to survive 2 Earthquakes from CB Haxorus and paralyze it. Rest in special defense to tank Draco meteors better.


    [​IMG]
    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Protect
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang


    Opinion: Gliscor is cool; it has an amazing design and it's the evolution of Gligar, a boss pokemon (for LC I mean). That isn't, however, the reason why it's here; its function is to stop physical threats such as Excadrill, Garchomp and Conkeldurr, who are very dangerous.


    Moveset: Earthquake + Ice Fang has awesome coverage and it hits for hard damage the pokemon that Gliscor loves to wall. Swords Dance is to double Gliscor attack and, with Poison Heal and such a bulk, it's not going to be hard to find a turn to use it. Protect is incredibly useful because it effectively gives 12% of free health, as well as scouting for attacks.

    Spread: 244 HP for the maximum Poison Heal number reachable; 252 def for maximum defense and the rest is sent into attack.


    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Latios @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Draco Meteor
    - Recover

    Opinion: Latios is, imo, the coolest poké ever. I mean, look at that blue; it's epic. But besides being the cool part of the team, he also plays a very important role. It severely weakens (sometimes even defeats) some usual Thundurus counters, namely Ferrothorn, Gastrodon, Specially Defensive Jiracih and Specially Defensive Tyranitar. He also gives me some instant hard hitting, which is awesome. If Latios is uber, it's thanks to this moveset. If your name is not Chansey/Blissey, you can't switch in without being 2HKOed (providing Ferrothorn does his job). Tyranitar switches on any move and HP Fighting kills it after. SpDef Jirachi can't stand 2 Surfs. Ferrothorn can't stand 2 HP Fightings. And nothing else can stand a Draco Meteor.

    Moveset: Draco Meteor is to hammer everything that doesn't resist it for brutal damage. Surf has amazing coverage with it and, in rain, it hits steels as hard as a super effective Hidden Power Fire. Hidden Power Fighting is a very underrated move on Latios, but it also hits stuff that are sturdy enough to tank DMs/Surfs (Tyranitar, Ferrothorn and, to an extent, Empoleon) and Recover keeps Latios healthy for more smashing.

    Spread: Maximum speed and special attack, like any special sweeper durr.

    Some calcs versus Latios' common counters:
    Show Hide
    Hidden Power Fighting vs 252/208 Relaxed Ferrothorn -> 42%-50%
    Hidden Power Fighting vs 252/80 Quiet Tyranitar -> 60-70%
    Rain Surf vs 252/220 Careful Jirachi -> 40%-45%
    Rain Surf vs 248/216 Careful Scizor - > 50%-56%





    [​IMG]
    Toxicroak (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Drain Punch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Bulk Up

    Opinion: Toxicroak comes to the team to add physical attacking power to destroy special walls like Blissey, as well as being effective against opposing rain teams. This thing is very powerful in rain. It can easily set a sub after Bulk Upping against foes like Conkeldurr, Ferrothorn, between others. It also gets unresisted coverage.

    Moveset: Substitute can be used when your defense is high enough, after using Bulk Up. The funny part is that Toxicroak loses only 6% of his HP when using a Substitute. Drain Punch is a STAB option and stacks with Dry Skin + Leftovers to recover even more HP. Sucker Punch hits pokemon who resist Drain Punch, namely Ghosts and Psychics and, if you're behind a sub, they're forced to attack.

    Spread: 244 HP for a Leftovers/Dry Skin HP number. 252 Atk for maximum attack. 12 Speed EVs outspeed defensive Rotom-W (though it's not a good idea to leave Croak against them because they might run some speed).

    [​IMG]
    Thundurus @ Leftovers Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Nasty Plot
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Thunder

    Opinion: Thundurus is, along with Garchomp, the most broken pokemon of the metagame. This set I use is extremely effective on the late game, after Tyranitar is down, Blissey/SPDJIrachi are weakened.

    Moveset: Nasty Plot doubles the special attack and is good for sweeping. Thunder hits extremely hard, especially after a Nasty Plot (does over 40% to Blissey), while Hidden Power Ice hits Grounds, Grasses and Dragons who laugh at Thunder. Substitute is polemic here; many people ask me to use Focus Blast over it, but I HATE Focus Blast. It always misses on the wrong time and Thundurus doesn't enjoy taking hits. Also, Priority Substitute is amazing. The ability to scout attacks and block status coming from fast pokemon is brilliant.

    Spread: Max speed and special attack. The IV spread ensures I have an Ice Typed Hidden Power, but without losing 1 speed point (and subsequently losing to opposing Thundurus/Tornadus).

    Conclusion
    Thundurus is broken. Abuse it as you want.


    Export to text
    Code:
    Politoed (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Scald
    - Encore
    - Perish Song
    - Protect
    
    Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Power Whip
    - Thunder Wave
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    
    Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 12 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Protect
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Fang
    
    Latios (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Draco Meteor
    - Recover
    
    Toxicroak (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Substitute
    - Drain Punch
    - Sucker Punch
    - Bulk Up
    
    Thundurus (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Nasty Plot
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Thunder
  2. Blue_Star

    Blue_Star
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    763
    Threat list
    I'm only going to post pokemon that cause me troubles.

    Yellow is an annoying pokemon
    Orange is a threat.
    Red is a dangerous threat.
    [​IMG]
    Gliscor: It walls the fuck outa toxicroak and annoys ferrothorn with taunt. Latios and Thundurus and Politoed beat it, but they hate come on repeated ice fangs and earthquakes respectively and this (BAN ME PLEASE) keep switching from them.

    [​IMG]
    Forretress: I hate this motherfather. He gets a free switch-in on gliscor or ferrothorn then proceeds to spin my hazards and lays hazards that I can't spin. It is, however, pure setup fodder for gliscor, thundurus, and toxicroak.

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    Cloyster: I hate cloyster. If it gets a shell smash, it sweeps my team. It can't, however, setup on anything besides gliscor, so if you see a cloyster on team preview, be careful when playing with gliscor.
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    Reuniclus: The CM version isn't too much of a problem because politoed can encore its CMs and perish song it, while latios' draco meteor does a number too. The trick room variant, however, is dangerous because, under trick room, it outspeed and does over 80% to everyone on the team.

    [​IMG]
    Lucario: Nasty Plot versions are easy to stop with Latios, who resists vacuum wave, outspeeds and OHKOes, but SD versions are trollolol for this team because it OHKOes gliscor with ice punch, latios and thundurus and croak with extremespeed and the rest with
    close combat. However, they might use crunch/bullet punch/stone edge over ice punch, so gliscor has a hope of beating it too. Also, it can't setup because politoed scalds, natorei t-waves, gliscor earthquakes, toxicroak drain punches, etc, etc.

    [​IMG]
    Thundurus: It's weird that my team features thundurus as the star but it's also weak to opposing thundurus, but most teams are weak to it right? If it gets a nasty plot, the only way of beating it is to winning the speed tie with my own thundurus or LO stall it until toxicroak can finish it off with sucker punch..
  3. Nonary Game

    Nonary Game

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2007
    Messages:
    247
    From what I can tell this really is an excellent team and an argument if any towards getting rid of Drizzle/Thundurus. A few potential dangers to note however:

    As you've noted, SpDef Jirachi can pose a potential threat to this team. Ones running Fire Punch can easily put a stop to Ferrothorn's plans if Rain isn't up. (Notably, Jirachi is often seen with Tyranitar)

    Also, specially defensive Tyranitar could pose a potential threat. Not only does he null your rain with his Sand (and by extension interrupting Thunder's accuracy), but more specially defensive variants can edge out of being 2HKOed by Latios' HP Fighting + another move.

    One other oddball I see being a threat is Hydreigon, although mainly the mix LO variant. It can, with any prediction, OHKO everything on this team barring Ferrothorn in the rain (it barely dodges the OHKO from Fire Blast with your investment). On the other hand, Latios and Thundurus outspeed it and it'll not find too many openings to switch in outside of the first three members of your team.

    Just keep these three in mind. Otherwise, excellent team.
  4. AB2

    AB2 is an absolute ape
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2010
    Messages:
    413
    Hi, this is a really cool rain dance team but I think I have some suggestions that could help you better it. It seems like you could have trouble with Trick Room Reuniclus. Actually, that seems to be pretty much the biggest threat of this team, because it is able to do massive damage to every one of your team members under a Trick Room, which is easily obtained on pokemon such as Gliscor. Your best option is to try and play around it with Latios and Toxicroak, but if Latios has a small amount of prior damage on it under Trick Room, then you could be in some serious trouble. Calm Mind Reuniclus seems like it could be a nuisance as well; however the more offensive Trick Room Reuniclus has the ability to do massive amounts of damage to your team just by setting up Trick Room one time. I think that running a Specially Defensive Jirachi over Latios would help you out quite a lot. Specially Defensive Jirachi has the ability to take on Trick Room Reuniclus very easily and it allows you to run only spikes on Ferrothorn which opens it up for other options. With specially defensive Jirachi, you now have the ability to run Spikes | Power Whip | Gyro Ball | Leech Seed on Ferrothorn. This will allow you to take on Specs Latios pretty easily since Jirachi can take a lot from Specs Surf in the rain.

    Jirachi (open)
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Careful 252 HP | 216 SpD | 40 Spe Serene Grace
    Wish | Iron Head | Body Slam | Stealth Rocks


    Besides that, this team is really cool. Good Luck.
  5. kaiijy

    kaiijy

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    57
    Ok, am i the only one whom believes that has seem this team somewhere else? Not saying you copied or anything, just that it is a pretty obvious rain team :p
  6. MetaGross66

    MetaGross66

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    551
    I'm going to go ahead and say this is an excellent team. Having faced it and lost to Thundurus due to parahax it's really easy to compare this Thundurus to subchomp's playstyle. It's ironic that the sweeper you based this team on is also one of your team's greatest threats. For this reason i'd recommend a Swampert to set up stealth rocks for ferrothorn and wall Thundurus as well as checking excadrill for you. This will alleviate your horrendous weakness to subcm latias as you can now use gyro ball on ferrothorn. It's difficult to solve all the problems with this team without opening up new ones. I don't think my suggestion is the best way, but knowing your weaknesses may allow you to think of something better. gl :)
  7. rh2012

    rh2012

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    111
    Yo Blue Star! I'd like to let you know that this is in fact my favorite rain team. I stole it for wifi use, and it's been great. I have to note the HUGE weakness to reuniclus (both CM and TR). I was able to play around it on every occasion with latios/toxicroak, but when it comes in as a lead is when it is the worst. but once it is weakened, Thunder can take it down. Nice team man! I nominated you for the archive because, well... this team wrecks.
  8. Venser

    Venser

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,638
    I just saw this and holy fuck my rain team is almost identical x.x I'm running Ice Beam over Perish Song on toad, maybe consider this? I can't really think of any situations where perish song is useful, save when they have that +6 +6 shinboarra as the last one x.x
  9. rh2012

    rh2012

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    111
    perish song helps a lot in certain situations, i wouldnt give it up. its one of the best ways around reuniclus (last poke especially)
  10. DarthChocoboz

    DarthChocoboz

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Messages:
    816
    FIRST THINGS FIRST

    PLOITOED AND TOXICROAK LOOK AWESOME IN THOSE PICS!!!

    This tea is very good and as people have pointed out you have a weakness to TR reuniclus. To deal with this i recommend switching your toxicroak to a CB varient. You can come in as it TRs or on a focus blast meant for ferro and wreck it with sucker punch. CB also allows you to deal with Sp Def jirachi thanks to earthquake, which is very underrated move on toxicroak. Sucker Punch also deals with those frail sweepers that take advantage of your rain. however losing sub does mean you are slightly more sanstorm weak but not too much (make sure to switch lefties to black sludge too btw). If worst comes to worst you can stall reuniclus out of TR with sucker punch.

    Cool team hope i helped!

    CB Toxicroak (open)

    Toxicroak @ Choice Band
    Jolly|252 ATK|6 HP|252 SPEED
    Sucker Punch|Ice Punch|Earthquake|Cross Chop
    You can use adamant if you wish. You can also use drain punch if you think you need recovery
  11. B-p

    B-p

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2010
    Messages:
    7
    It might be a tad ironic that this team (while excellent) seems to have a weakness to opposing Thundurus, especially any carrying Lum Berry. It can switch in on your Ferro and proceed to NP, not fearing T-wave. Your only option becomes to wear it's HP down with an unboosted Sucker Punch from Croak, and hope to win the speed tie with your own Thundurus. However, I'm positive you're well aware of the dangers of Thundurus, abusing it yourself. I don't claim to be a credible team rater but just thought I'd give my opinion.
  12. Blue_Star

    Blue_Star
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Messages:
    763
    Thanks for the ratings (lol I actually forgot seeing them so I came late).

    I don't think spdef jirachi is a problem because ferrothorn takes only 30% from its fire punch in rain and can proceed to setup. Gliscor also beats it one on one. As for spdef ttar, Latios also does a number on it with HP fighting and the hazards will pressure it a lot. And yes, sazandora is a problem. I need to predict fire blast and send latios on it, but it's annoying as hell.

    Jirachi would really help this team (because it also solves my thundurus weakness); I just don't know where to use it because every member has an important role. Latios, for instance, is oftentimes the MVP of the team because it kills so much stuff. But I will test jirachi.

    Lol, I renember that match :O. Anyways, yes, I am VERY Thundurus weak. If it gets to set up before mine, I need to rely on the speed tie to beat it. But I'm not sure about subCM latias weakness when nattorei walls it and politoed can encore + perish song to troll it.

    Thanks dude, I like when people like my team (that's why I put an importable version). I don't think CM reuniclus is a threat, but TR reuniclus is. Against CM ones, I can use encore politoed to troll its setup and use latios to hit it hard in case it attacks. But TR reuniclus is really problematic because it outspeeds and does a number on every member of the team. I need to play around it and hope I don't get outpredicted.

    Thanks. I might test CBcroak, but I'm not sure if I'm going to make that change.

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