1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Quality Control Thundurus-T (Analysis) [QC 0/3]

Discussion in 'Dream World Analyses' started by JellyOs, Jul 11, 2012.

  1. JellyOs

    JellyOs

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    456
    [​IMG]

    Thundurus-T

    [Overview]

    -BAMF
    -Thundurus Therian forme, also known as Thundurus-T or Thor-P (Pokemon forme)
    -Strong rain abuser in the BW2 metagame
    -Niche 101 speed allow him to troll base 100's
    -Crazy high Special Attack and good speed make him good for either choice or set up
    -Nasty Plot and Agility
    -Good ability in Volt Absorb
    -Small but very usable movepool
    -He's frail
    -Weak to priority Ice Shard and Stealth Rock
    -That and his fragility make his stay on the battle field very short

    [SET]
    name: Agility
    move 1: Agility
    move 2: Thunder
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Focus Blast / Superpower
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    -Excellent sweeper with great coverage
    -145 SpA doesn't disappoint when compared to other Agility sweepers
    -Thunderbolt is a great STAB, but Thunder is much more powerful but needs rain support
    -HP Ice gives BoltBeam-ish coverage, although a lot weaker. It still gets the job done though and kills Ground-types like Gliscor and Dragons like Salamence
    -The last move is up for debate:
    -Focus Blast gives great coverage against Steels such as Heatran, Ferrothorn, and Magnezone but the accuracy can be a pain
    -Superpower lets him hit the blobs much harder than Focus Blast, but outside of that it's really an inferior option
    -Grass Knot allows him to OHKO stuff like Gastrodon and Swampert, but those guys are really rare...
    -Use his immunities to switch him in!

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    -Tbolt outside of rain
    -No other EV spreads are really worth noting
    -Substitute can be used to block against priority, but you really want all the coverage you can get on this set
    -The item can be changed if you want to extend Thundurus-T's life a little more
    -Expert Belt lets you hit a lot for about as much as LO, but really is a let down with neutral hits
    -Yache Berry can stop stray Ice Beams and Ice Shards while setting up or attacking
    -Zap Plate gives Thundurus-T a strong STAB, but a weak HP Ice can be the difference between a sweep and a failed sweep
    -Modest over Timid, but that 101 Speed is nice if you have to attack before set up
    -Rash can be used with Superpower so the blobs feel its full (super)power.
    -SubPetaya Empoleon is a good partner

    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Volt Switch
    move 2: Thunder
    move 3: Focus Blast / Grass Knot
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice
    item: Choice Scarf
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    -With two immunities, Thundurus-T can work well in VoltSwitch teams or serve as a god revenge killer to numerous threats
    -101 Speed puts it ahead of 100 Scarfers
    -145 SpA means his power won't be diluted by running a Scarf
    -STAB Volt Switch hits hard coming off that massive Special Attack
    -Secondary STAB for revenge killing is required
    -Again, Thunderbolt for outside of rain and Thunder for rain teams
    -Other coverage on the set is much looser as it doesn't need perfect coverage to sweep
    -Focus Blast and HP Ice can be used together for good coverage, but the inability to OHKO Scizor hurts
    -Timid is preferred to beat 100's already set up or Scarfed (Volcarona, Mence, etc.)
    -Use Scarf Genesect with this. If you don't know why go play some DW matches

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    -Tbolt outside of rain
    -Any other spread would be useless as you want to hit hard and fast
    -Thundurus-T really lacks any other coverage options
    -Don't use Superpower. The blobs still wall you
    -U-turn is a viable option over any move. It's advantage over Volt Switch would be lack of immunity, always letting you switch out
    -Speaking of which, the blobs wall this set more so than any other one because it can't use a strong LO Superpower or boosted Focus Blast
    -More so than any of the other sets, this set loves to be on VoltTurn based teams. This means teammates like Scizor, Rotom-W, Genesect and and other Pokemon that create VoltTurn chains are recommended

    [SET]
    name: Nasty Plot
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Thunder
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Focus Blast / Substitute
    item: Lum Berry / Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    -Raw, unadulterated power
    -Crazy Strong, practically 2HKO's the metagame
    -101 Speed is a blessing with this set; it allows you to outspeed a good deal of things
    -STAB move is STAB, Thunderbolt is good in any weather but Thunder is amazing in rain
    -HP Ice gives good coverage when used with either of Thundurus-T's Electric-type STAB
    -Focus Blast can be used in the last slot for greater coverage, but when you're at +2 already you can hit a lot with just the former two moves. For this reason Substitute can be used, hopefully blocking against priority and faster attacks. Be warned that the blobs will wall you more easily if you don't use Focus Blast
    -Lum Berry blocks status users like Blissey, Chansey and Amoongus which could all easily threaten an end to your sweep
    -Life Orb gives you killing power. Like 2HKO Blissey killing power

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    -Leftovers prolongs your life and is best used with Substitute
    -Tbolt outside of rain
    -Other coverage is really unneeded as you can usually blast through most things
    -Faster Pokemon are the bane of this set's existence, as it has no way of boosting Speed like other sets and it needs to stay in to work
    -Thundurus-T doesn't like running any other spread

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Thunder
    move 2: Volt Switch
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Focus Blast / U-turn
    item: Choice Specs
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    -Wallbreaker, wallbreaker, wallbreaker
    -No set up time
    -One of the most powerful Specs abusers in the OU metagame
    -Rain support is pushed for on the Specs set as Thunder deals as much damage as possible
    -Thunderbolt is an alternative, but the power drop is awfully dissapointing
    -Volt Switch works well with VoltTurn, just like the Scarf set. It's also THE most powerful Volt Switch in the game without prior set up. Same goes for Thunder
    -Focus Blast and HP Ice are Thundurus staples and should be used a such. Both give great coverage and only help Thundurus-T break teams.
    -U-turn can be used over Focus Blast for its ability to always provide a viable switch out option
    -Timid lets you beat out 100's and lower, but Modest gives the power needed

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    -Tbolt outside of rain
    -Because the only goal of this set is to hit hard and break stuff, other options are few and far between
    -Thunder will be your primary move along with Volt Switch, but between HP Ice and Focus Blast Thundurus has good coverage.
    -He's pretty much locked into 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -VoltTurn with Genesect / Scizor / Rotom-W

    [SET]
    name: Ew (Nasty Agility)
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Agility
    move 3: Thunder
    move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Focus Blast
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    -Double dance set gets past several of Thundurus-T's problems, namely bad team match up
    -Nasty Plot against stall teams to break them down
    -Agility against offensive teams to sweep through them
    -Thunderbolt and Thunder are the basic STAB options to spam, Thunder in rain and Thunderbolt out of it
    -Thundurus-T dislikes the lack of coverage, but the versatility can be incredibly valuable
    -HP Ice will give astounding coverage, but Focus Blast hits those Steels

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    -Tbolt outside of rain
    -Lefties for longevity
    -No other coverage is better with 2 moves
    -Band Haxorus partner in Rain to break down special walls
    -What other spread?
    -SubPetaya Empoleon is a good partner

    [Other Options]

    -Sub + 3 attacks
    -Completely mixed?
    -Twave
    -HP Fire + Grass Knot
    -Anyone have any other ideas?

    [Checks and Counters]

    -Scarf Chandelure
    -Mamoswine
    -Scrafty
    -STARMIE
    -Scarf'd shit
    -Stealth Rock
    -Ferrothorn if you lack Focus Blast, Superpower or HP Fire
    -Blissey / Chansey
    -Quaggy
    -Lanturn
    -Raikou
    -Chomp
  2. Lemonade.

    Lemonade. fluffy bird
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,969
    I'm not a fan of the last set. Without Prankster I don't feel Thunder Wave is a good replacement for a set-up move that Thundurus-T could wreak havoc with. Even though it causes switches, the same could be said with Thundurus; the only difference is that Thundurus isn't as immediately threatening, but it has Prankster to last resort Paralyze. Furthermore, if the opponent switches to their Special Wall, Paralysis isn't devastating. Blissey and Chansey natural cure it off, for example. Other people weigh in !_!

    Also, Raikou in Checks and Counters. Unboosted HP Ice is still weak, Focus Blast is not very reliable, and Raikou commonly carries its own HP Ice to hit Thund-T with.
  3. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,041
    T-wave and HP Fire are oo material.

    I'll comment more when I get home.
  4. JellyOs

    JellyOs

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    456
    OO'd T-wave, I was kinda shaky on it but I personally liked it. Raikou to CC and Garchomp too. Empoleon added as good teammate.
    I can't agree with OO'ing HP fire though because it makes a good combo with Grass Knot and hits Steels more reliably.
  5. Omicron

    Omicron
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,041
    HP Fire is only OO material because you hardly ever want to be using Thundurus-T outside of rain. In addition, almost every Steel-type bar Ferrothorn is already taking a shitton of damage from Thunder, while Focus Blast takes care of Ferrothorn anyway. Ferrothorn can't do shit to Thundurus-T because of Volt Absorb, as it makes Thunder Wave useless. It resists both of Ferrothorn's STAB moves, and the worst it can do is Leech Seed it, which hardly stops it from plowing through anyway. HP Fire also grants terrible coverage in conjunction with Thunder / Grass Knot, as you are then unable to hit Dragon-types at all (with the exception of Dragon- and Flying-types, which aren't that common anyway), and are completely walled by Garchomp, who is one of the most prominent threats in the tier. Hidden Power Ice is also imperative to hit other Thundurus-T, as you are also walled by opposing Thundurus-T should you choose to run HP Fire. Hidden Power Ice is a much more important move than Focus Blast. Slash Grass Knot with Focus Blast instead on the Choice Scarf set. HP Fire deserves no more than an OO mention, at best. Other QC members can chime in here, but I'm certain they will come to the same conclusion.
  6. JellyOs

    JellyOs

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    456
    I'll take that logic, thanks for the insight rather than "I'm QC so listen to me" :] I'll do that when I get home.
  7. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,214
    I'll talk to the rest of QC about this, but as far as I know, we usually stick with either Thunderbolt or Thunder, and don't have them slashed. Instead, we leave one in the AC (even if it's viable), stating that it's for teams that are with/without rain support. I'm inclined to say just make Thunder the only option and leave Thunderbolt to the AC, considering you really shouldn't be running Thundurus-T outside of rain, as it's not really patching up an Electric weakness for most teams, and it's much better in rain. You also don't have priority Thunder Wave or a base 111 Speed to abuse, so there's really no point. Again, I'll need to speak with QC about this so stay tuned, though I believe they'll probably agree with me there.

    For the Choice Scarf and Choice Specs set, while you mention VoltTurn, I'd go ahead and give a BIG nod to Genesect, who is much more common and viable than its physical counterpart Scizor.

    For all of the sets, move the 4 HP EVs to either Defense or Special Defense (but Attack if Superpower is an option) to give Thundurus-T 5 switches into Stealth Rock instead of 4. Enlighten me if I'm incorrect, but I'm a bit unsure as to why Scrafty is a check / counter to Thundurus-T, as you have super effective coverage and can still do a boatload with Thunder. If it survives and uses Ice Punch back, then sure I guess, but I wouldn't really mention it considering it's slow and will usually be severely damaged or KOed. When you mention Quagsire, mention that Thundurus-T can do a boatload with Focus Blast if you predict correctly, and can do even more with Grass Knot. Move SubPetaya Empoleon out of the Checks and Counters section because it should be in the AC of applicable sets as a teammate instead.

    These are my suggestions as far as your work goes, but it looks complete. I'll talk to QC about these soon, but almost all of them are pretty much a lock so I'd go ahead and implement them. Good work!

    (Also I guess I'll take down Zapdos considering Thundurus-T does stuff better...)

    EDIT: I talked to Tobes and we'll settle the Thunder vs. Thunderbolt by making relevant calcs, though I believe Thunder should remain there. We'll see!
  8. JellyOs

    JellyOs

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    456
    @Harsha

    Done. I agree with the Thunder thing, but I didn't know how QC would feel about that.
    Genesect is good, gave him a big nod
    Emp out of CC
    Nice new badge ;)
    BP Zapdos D:

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)