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Thundurus-T [Choice Scarf] [QC: 0/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Vertex, Jul 12, 2013.

  1. Vertex

    is a Contributor to Smogon

    May 2, 2013
    Suck it Zeus

    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Thunder
    move 2: Volt Switch
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Hidden Power [Flying] / Grass Knot / Hidden Power [Ice]
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Timid


    - Thunder is obvious choice of STAB
    - Volt Switch gains momentum
    - Focus Blast is useful for Steel-types like Ferrothorn and Darkrai
    - Grass Knot is great and hits most of Ubers for high damage such as Groudon, Arceus-Water, and Kabutops
    - Hidden Power [Ice] fills the BoltBeam combo, which lets it excel in revenge killing in the Uber metagame
    - Hidden Power [Flying] for Grassceus and Bugceus and rare Fightingceus, laos hits Shaymin for OHKO iirc


    - This set is weaker than the Life Orb set, so play to its advantages
    - Teammates are Pokemon that can remove Ground-immunities and wall faster Choice Scarfers like Terrakion. Giratina does this especially well.
    - Modest can be used for more power, but Timid is important because outpacing Dragon Dance Rayquaza, Choice Scarf Palkia, Choice Scarf Dialga, Choice Scarf Rayquaza, Choice Scarf Kyogre, and the rare Choice Scarf Groudon is important
    - Volt Absorb is a cool ability to switch into Kyogre's Thunder and Thudurs-I Thunder's
  2. Magcargo

    Magcargo Five Star
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Feb 7, 2013
    A Thundurus-Therian revamp is already in progress and it already includes the Choice scarf set.
    Sorry, I thought this was an OU analysis for a second.
  3. Vertex

    is a Contributor to Smogon

    May 2, 2013
    This ready for Quality Control, and here's my debate with Theorymon on #c&c

    <Vertex> thundurus-t choice scarf ubers , is it mssing something?
    <Theorymon> actually the scarf set got rejected lol
    <Vertex> lol
    <Vertex> still
    <Theorymon> it.. didnt work out that well in Ubers
    <Vertex> i have good reasoning
    <Theorymon> the LO set worked out though!
    <Vertex> yea
    <Vertex> ik
    <Vertex> but scarf is good
    <Vertex> too
    <Theorymon> k give me the reasoning, I dont think its gonna convince me though
    <Theorymon> I really didnt like it
    <Vertex> Well first of all, it isn't freaking lame due to 145 SpA
    <Theorymon> the SpA isnt the problem at all actually
    <Vertex> and its excellent 101 Spe tier lets it outpace Palkia and ogre
    <Theorymon> that isnt the problem either
    <Vertex> however its frail
    <Theorymon> its relying on a choiced electric move with no good secondary STAB, and the SR weak
    <Theorymon> Zekrom gets away with it
    <Theorymon> because it also has that Dragon STAB
    <Vertex> Yes, but Zekrom isn't physical
    <Vertex> is*
    <Theorymon> Zekrom being physical actually plays in its favor!
    <Theorymon> lets it smash through Mewtwo and do something to Ghostceus
    <Vertex> yea, but thundurus-t being special means something too
    <Theorymon> if Thundurus-T had Hurricane it might be a different story tbh
    <Theorymon> not with all those problems
    <Theorymon> it got rejected because the SR weak + overeliance on choiced Thunder
    <Theorymon> was just too much for it to handle
    <Theorymon> the LO set has its niche though!
    <Vertex> It has grass knot...
    <Theorymon> GK isnt something great to be locked into lol
    <Vertex> yea, but ur not supposed to switch
    <Vertex> im mean ignore the not
    <Vertex> lol
    <Vertex> man i am confusing today....
    <Theorymon> agian, thats where the SR weak comes to haunt it
    <Theorymon> if it wasnt SR weak it'd be a lot more intresting
    <Vertex> if it switches into an electric type moves which are common in ubers sr is crap
    <Vertex> 252 SpA Thundurus-T Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 310-366 (76.73 - 90.59%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    <Vertex> groudon cant switch into thunder cause it has to worry about grass knot
    <Vertex> 252 SpA Thundurus-T Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 244-288 (54.95 - 64.86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    <Vertex> extreme killer cant switch in which is really common
    <Vertex> 252 SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Normal: 244-288 (60.54 - 71.46%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    <Theorymon> again, its the SR waek that kills it in this case
    <Theorymon> it has to switch so much
    <Theorymon> that it dies super fast compared to most scarfers
    <Vertex> yea, but you need rapid spin or magic bounce support
    <Vertex> forretress and kabutops ex.
    <Vertex> 252 SpA Thundurus-T Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 320-378 (93.56 - 110.52%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
    <Theorymon> when you have to do that for a scarfer, theres a problem imo
    <Vertex> weakened ogre gets volt switched
    <Vertex> the most common stealth rock user in ubers is groudon who finds it self 2HKOed and OHKOed with modest
    <Theorymon> Dialga is extremely common too, and its not like you can guarntee that Thundurus-T is ALWAYS gonna be out vs Groudon
    <Vertex> Groudon generally only carry earthquake and thundurus-t is immune to it
    <Vertex> fire punch wont really do crap
    <Vertex> even in sun
    <Vertex> 252 SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Dialga: 236-278 (58.41 - 68.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    <Vertex> add this to there is only one sr user per team, this sin't a problem
    <Theorymon> Fire Punch: 51.83 - 61.2%
    <Vertex> isnt*
    <Theorymon> that + 2 SR switch ins = dead Thundurus-T
    <Theorymon> thats from 4 Atk Groudon btw
    <Theorymon> Impish too
    <Theorymon> getting Dragon Tailed sucks too
    <Theorymon> Dragon Tail: 27.75 - 32.77%
    <Theorymon> thats a lot for an unstabbed Dragon Tail
    <Theorymon> and then it has to come back in to take an SR
    <Vertex> groudon is always OHKOed if its offensive
    <Theorymon> thats not offensive
    <Theorymon> thats defensive Groudon
    <Vertex> and after beating groudon, forre or kabu should take rocks away
    <Vertex> thudnrus-t only has problems with rocks and thats like the only support you should be giving it
    <Theorymon> also this is Dragon Pulse from defensive Dialga Dragon Pulse: 63.54 - 75.25%
    <Theorymon> the SR problem is
    <Vertex> thundurs-t has volt absorb and thunder and bolt strike is extremely common in ubers
    <Theorymon> way more pronunced when you are a choice mon
    <Theorymon> Bolt Strike isnt going to work out
    <Theorymon> because Zekrom has Teravoltage
    <Vertex> oh forgot
    <Vertex> but thunder is still common
    <Vertex> 252+ SpA Thundurus-T Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 340-402 (84.15 - 99.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    <Vertex> i slashed in modest for this
    <Theorymon> also people dont exactly spam Thunder
    <Theorymon> you are gonna have to convince other Uber QCers, because I had a really bad expereince with that set
    <Theorymon> I cant see myself approving it
    <Vertex> ok
    <Theorymon> the SR weak + reliance on Thunder was just too much for me
    <Theorymon> the LO set was pretty usable in my expereince though!
  4. Mr. Uncompetitive

    is a Pre-Contributor

    Jun 20, 2012
    Since I was the person who wrote Thundy-T's article in the first place, I'll give my two cents on the analysis (I already talked to you about what I think about the set overall and I'm echoing Theorymon's concerns). And yeah I'm not QC and it's been awhile since I've used Choice Scarf Thundy-T so you'll probably take my opinions with a grain of salt:

    -Modest should not be slashed with Timid. It's imperative that you get the speed needed to outpace the Base 90-100 Choice Scarf users and thus Timid should be the only Nature.
    -If you really need to slash Grass Knot, it should be slashed after Hidden Power Ice imo. Focus Blast is a very important move for coverage and really should not be slashed with anything. Hidden Power Ice hits some Dragons that you could hit fairly hard with Thunder or even Focus Blast anyways. But honestly, besides Groudon there really isn't anything important coverage you'll be getting with Grass Knot (I don't think it KOs anyways) so you might want to AC that

    -252/0 Arceus sets that aren't weak to any of his attack take 41.21-48.64% damage from Thunder. I wouldn't call that 2HKOing all Arceus formes.

    -Groudon beats you unless you have Grass Knot (even then it does 76.73-90.59% to Support Groudon so you'd need prior damage) since Support Groudon's Stone Edge KOs after Stealth Rock (even without it has a chance of KOing). Tyranitar's Tank set takes 72.27-85.14% from Focus Blast in Sandstorm and can either Crunch you for a 2HKO or Stone Edge for the KO. Kyogre I'll give you. It can defeat weather starters ya but it's rather shaky at doing so. And again this is assuming they stay in on your attacks​

    -Basically Thundy can only switch into Ground-type moves since almost everything can cripple if not KO it, as established by Theorymon

    -Zekrom gets Volt Switch as well and is much more bulky. So really the only things Thundy has going for it are more speed and a different array of attacks.
  5. Vertex

    is a Contributor to Smogon

    May 2, 2013
    Thanks, man.
  6. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Banned deucer.

    Jan 26, 2011
    Actually, if you give Zekrom max special attack (Why not? You are considering Thundy T in it's place afterall) it deals 87% of the damage Thundy T's Volt Switch would. So that means for OHKOs it does about 13% less, for 2HKOs it does about 6% less, for 4HKOs it does about 3% less so on so forth. Seeing as you'll probably be hitting resists more often than not (unless the other guy predicts the dragon attack/coverage move) the amount of damage difference is really going to be minimal. I'm not going to reject until I playtest with it some but it is looking grim.

    Edit: Sorry, I didn't make it very clear that the Zekrom comparison was exclusively for the point concerning the significantly stronger Volt Switch.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2013
  7. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Banned deucer.

    Jan 26, 2011
    QC Rejected 1/3

    For a Scarf mon it was horribly inflexible. When I didn't feel like I had to make a prediction or die, it was an easy excuse to bring in things like Latias. You also felt like you'd want Grass Knot so you can hit those Groudons but if you didn't run HP Ice then you couldn't even revenge kill Rayquaza or do anything significant to Latias. Volt Switching around sucks when SR is up and Thunder spamming is harder when you need Rain. Lastly, there are so many bulky Dragons and other Electric resists that trying to clean with it is just about impossible.
  8. Furai

    Furai we will become who we are meant to be
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    May 4, 2010
    I just don't feel Grass Knot and Volt Absorb are good enough to use this over Zekrom. Sorry.

    QC Rejected 2/3
  9. shrang

    shrang AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 24, 2009

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