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Thundurus-T (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by lucariojr, May 29, 2013.

  1. lucariojr

    lucariojr i'm a lombre from home
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    [​IMG]
    DANGER! HIGH VOLTAGE!


    [Overview]

    <p> Since its Incarnate form is used almost exclusively as a bulky Thunder Wave user, Thundurus-T is what people think of when they hear "Offensive Thundurus". Sporting a staggering base 145 Special Attack, decent coverage and Speed, as well as a great defensive typing and ability, Thundurus-T was always destined for greatness. Although it does face some competition from the likes of Zapdos and Rotom-W for the role of bulky electric, mainly due to its reliance on Hidden Power for extra coverage, Thundurus-T has made a name for itself despite its late arrival.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Hidden Power Flying / Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Grass Knot
    move 4: Volt Switch
    item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Thundurus-T is fairly one-dimensional. With its STAB Thunderbolt and Hidden Power backed by a Choice Specs boost, Thundurus-T is more than capable of ripping holes in the opponent's team, provided it doesn't get caught out with the wrong move in the wrong situation. Thunderbolt is self-explanatory, but Volt Switch might need more explanation, considering the rarity of such moves in VGC. The premise behind Volt Switch is this: although Thundurus-Therian hits hard, in a metagame where everything is either EVed to take Dragon Gem Draco Meteors, some Pokemon need softening up before Thundurus is ready to knock heads. Furthermore, Volt Switch hits almost as hard as Thunderbolt does, making it a safe move to throw out in the beginning of the game. The choice of Hidden Power largely depends on how well your team takes on Fighting-types or Dragon-types, but due to STAB, Hidden Power Flying is naturally the more powerful option. Hidden Power Ice, however, gives you the edge against other Thundurus-T that chose Hidden Power Flying, and it is powerful enough to OHKO Yache Berry Garchomp at about the same rate as Scald burns (and we all know how often that is), which is something normally only Ice-types such as Mamoswine and Abomasnow can claim to do. In the same situation, Garchomp cannot OHKO Thundurus-T without resorting to the inaccurate Stone Edge.</p>

    <p>As for the third slot, Grass Knot is the best that Thundurus-T's rather shallow movepool has to offer, but it can be useful in situations where Thundurus-T is left alone against Tyranitar or Gastrodon. It might also be wise to study up on the weights of some Pokemon before haphazardly locking yourself into Grass Knot. A prime example is Rotom-W, which only takes about 25% from a 20 Base Power super effective Choice Specs-boosted Grass Knot. If you have trouble memorizing weights, pay attention to the 'slamming' animation that most Pokemon make when entering the field.</p>

    <p>This analysis has so far listed a few examples of Thundurus-T's power. It should be noted, however, that those examples are the work of a Choice Specs boost, which means you won't be getting the same mileage out of Choice Scarf. Choice Scarf is still a great option though, as it outspeeds Choice Scarf Tyranitar and Landorus-T, Latios, neutral +1 Volcarona, and other such Pokemon that Thundurus-T might have interest in outspeeding. This makes Choice Scarf Thundurus-T most useful in revenge killing, especially if you have Fake Out users or Pokemon that can easily soften up the opposing team.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Thunder is a viable option when using Thundurus-T with Politoed, especially because of its 30% paralysis chance. Thunder should go over Volt Switch however; because of Tyranitar and Abomasnow, there will be times where Thundurus-T just can't afford to risk them switching in and causing Thunder to miss. A Timid nature could be used, but is mostly only good for outspeeding other Thundurus-T, and in Choice Scarf Thundurus T's case- Timid Volcarona after a Quiver Dance. The power drop usually isn't worth it because of this, as Thundurus-T barely ekes out a 2HKO against 4/0 Timid Volcarona with Hidden Power Flying, and it'll obviously be in a tight spot against Volcarona that opt for a bulkier spread. Another thing to note is that, when using Hidden Power Ice, you should use an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe to avoid wasting EVs.</p>

    <p>As mentioned earlier, Politoed is an excellent partner for Thundurus-T for many reasons. First and foremost, Thundurus-T's Volt Absorb takes advantage of Politoed's Electric-type weakness, making it easier than ever to preserve your precious frog. Secondly, Politoed provides speed control and Helping Hand support, boosting Thundurus's destructive prowess. Finally, rain brings with it Pokemon such as Kingdra and Ludicolo, which are more than happy to deal enough damage for Thundurus to be able to clean up later.</p>

    <p>Like Politoed, Cresselia has Helping Hand and speed control in the form of either Icy Wind, Thunder Wave, or Trick Room, the latter of which can actually benefit Choice Specs Thundurus, as it might find itself outsped by the aforementioned Speed demons. In fact, if you're feeling cheeky, you can even heal Thundurus-T with Cresselia's Thunder Wave. Other anti-Trick Room Pokemon are also appreciated because of Thundurus-T's relative frailty. Amoonguss is a great example of this, as it can outspeed some, if not most Trick Room attackers with a Sassy nature and put everything to sleep to stall out Trick Room or, in a more general sense, it can keep the heat off of Thundurus while the latter plugs away at the opposing team.</p>

    <p>Tyranitar is an odd option, but it &mdash along with Excadrill &mdash appreciates a STAB Thunderbolt working against nasty Water-types, especially Politoed. Excadrill and Thundurus-T can also serve as a "fast mode" with Excadrill spamming Earthquakes to its heart's content while Thundurus-T takes no damage and spams its own STAB moves. Fake Out users are also much appreciated, especially those with Feint, which allows Thundurus-T to nab some unexpected KOs or simply ease prediction. Examples of these are Infernape, Hitmontop, and Sableye. Other useful Feint users include Scizor and Heracross, both of which take care of Tyranitar, Cresselia, Abomasnow, and sometimes Mamoswine, all of which are threats to Thundurus-T.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Hidden Power Flying / Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Grass Knot
    move 4: Protect
    item: Life Orb / Electric Gem
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While lacking in Speed or attacking prowess, specially attacking Thundurus-T is unique in its versatility. Being able to switch between moves is incredibly useful, considering how Choice Specs or Choice Scarf Thundurus-T is easily walled should it lock itself into an unfavorable move. It also isn't forced to switch moves and has increased longevity thanks to Protect, which is useful to avoid double-targeting.</p>

    <p>Even though this Thundurus-T is more versatile in its playstyle, its moveslots aren't very flexible. The standard Thunderbolt, Hidden Power, and Grass Knot core is hard to replace, as it is really all Thundurus-T needs in the first place. The question of which Hidden Power to use is the same as the Choice sets; do you want to hit Dragon- or Fighting-types? There is no wrong answer to this question because it depends largely on your team, so you might find yourself bouncing between the two in practice. Protect is almost non-negotiable, as one of the main draws for a non-Choice set is the ability to use it, but if you don’t feel the need for it, you can easily switch it with Volt Switch to make a miniature Choice set.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Again, Thunder is a great move if you’re using Thundurus-T with Politoed, but beware of weather inducers such as Tyranitar, Abomasnow, and miscellaneous Sunny Day users. A Timid nature drops Thundurus-T's damage output even further, but can help out with opposing Thundurus-T and other Pokemon that might run odd Speed spreads. Because of this Thundurus’s increased longevity, a Timid nature isn't such a bad idea considering it might stick around longer to play out those 2HKOs.</p>

    <p>Life Orb is generally the more useful item as it consistently boosts all of Thundurus-T's attacks, but if the recoil is a turn-off, Electric Gem provides a one-time boost that is comparable to that of Choice Specs. Additionally, Electric Gem might enable Thundurus-T to bluff a Choice set as long as you don't immediately use Thunderbolt, as it doesn't announce itself otherwise.</p>

    <p>The partners for this set don't differ as much from the Choice set, except Tyranitar is a slightly weaker option considering how quickly Life Orb and Sand Stream damage can accumulate. Helping Hand is especially helpful because of the power difference, and chip damage is all the more useful. Thunder Wave support is not only helpful for speed control, but also to offset Thundurus’s Life Orb recoil. Feint is slightly more helpful if you reveal the fact that Thundurus-T isn't Choiced, which makes opponents more reliant on Protect to stave off Thundurus’s powerful Thunderbolts and coverage moves.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Thundurus-T has a few tricks up its cotton-candied sleeve, but unfortunately the vast majority of them are very situational. Flash Cannon is actually rather useful to hit both Abomasnow and Tyranitar super effectively, but it still can't KO either consistently, even with a Choice Specs boost. Focus Blast would be a great option for those two as well if it didn't have an atrocious 70% accuracy, which might seem like a fair trade, but in reality it isn't worth it because both Pokemon usually hold Focus Sashes or Chople Berries to mitigate their Fighting-type weakness. Superpower has more appealing accuracy and still has Thundurus-T's overlooked base 105 Attack to work off of, but requires investment to OHKO anything, and even then it's vulnerable to Intimidate Attack drops. Taunt and Nasty Plot can be useful in the special attacker set, where Grass Knot is used even less often. Taunt can shut down Trick Room or Amoonguss (since Thundurus-T can't OHKO specially defensive variants), which is actually very helpful, but is still a rather situational move especially considering how frail Thundurus-T is. Nasty Plot, when given a turn to set up, can mow down Pokemon that usually check it, such as Cresselia, Tyranitar, and Rotom-W, and OHKOes its bulky Incarnate counterpart. The problem lies with Thundurus-T actually getting the boost and staying alive afterwards after the opponent starts to focus fire on the suddenly very threatening Therian.</p>

    <p>In terms of items other, the regular attacking Thundurus-T has a lot to choose from, including Focus Sash, Ice or Flying Gems, and Expert Belt. Focus Sash is attractive, but usually not worth the drop in power unless you're interested in OHKOing Terrakion or Landorus-T without having to lock Thundurus-T into Grass Knot or Hidden Power. Flying and Ice Gems provide a Specs-esque boost, but only to their respective Hidden Powers, which don't usually have much to gain from a Gem boost. Expert Belt can provide power and versatility, but more importantly it can bluff Choice items. Expert Belt requires a super effective hit however, and even when it does, it doesn't provide a boost like a Gem or Life Orb would, which means Thundurus-T might miss out on some KOs on Pokemon such as Metagross.</p>

    <p>A bulkier EV spread might seem like a waste and overshadowed by Thundurus's bulky spreads, but can actually be useful against common attacks, especially if you're using Thundurus-T's excellent synergy with Water-types. A spread of 96 HP / 32 Def / 248 SpA / 8 SpD / 124 Spe allows Thundurus-T to survive attacks such as Bisharp's Dark Gem Sucker Punch and Timid Latios's non-Life Orb or Dragon Gem-boosted Draco Meteor, allowing Thundurus-T to actually KO the two or at least heavily damage them without having to worry about Speed or priority ruining its day. Of course, that spread is for Hidden Power Flying, so you should use 92 HP / 32 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 132 Spe when using Hidden Power Ice.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While Thundurus-T might be able to poke massive holes in your team, if you've EVed your Pokemon to take powerful Dragon Gem-boosted Draco Meteors, you've won half the battle already. Pokemon such as Cresselia and Tyranitar can already take such attacks and either OHKO Thundurus (you might want to Protect to rack up a turn of sandstorm damage to maximize your chances) or slow it down for other Pokemon to KO it. Simply outspeeding it and smacking it with a powerful STAB move is sometimes all it takes to quell the Thundur, which is precisely what Mamoswine, Terrakion, Choice Scarf Tyranitar and Weavile do from the start. Fast Draco Meteors are also great deterrents for Thundurus, and they mostly come from the likes of Latios or Kingdra in the rain. Kingdra can be especially dangerous because it's usually in a rain team's best interest to KO Thundurus as soon as possible. Choice Thundurus are easy to predict around if you have reason to believe it is in fact Choice-locked, as Thundurus has a tendency to lock itself into an undesirable move early-game. Pokemon that can take advantage of this misfortune are Gastrodon and Metagross, as well as just about every Pokemon previously mentioned. Trick Room is deadly with the right attackers, which more often than not, includes Tyranitar or Abomasnow, both of which obviously OHKO Thundurus-T with little hassle.</p>

    <p>As far as counters go, Lanturn is the #1 anti-Thundurus-T Pokemon. Not only does it resist or is immune to every move Thundurus can throw at it (besides unorthodox options such as Focus Blast), Thundurus-T's Grass Knot only hits for 40 Base Power, which only pulls out a 4HKO, without even factoring in healing. With this extra time on its hands, Lanturn can casually slow Thundurus with Icy Wind or chip away at it with STAB Water-type moves or Ice Beam. Lanturn is also a potential problem for rain teams, but doesn't fare too well against other teams that happen to include Thundurus-T. Perhaps ironically, Hidden Power Flying Thundurus-T are susceptible to Thundurus-T that opt for Hidden Power Ice because Volt Absorb negates its primary STAB. Similarly, Hidden Power Flying Thundurus-T is also effectively walled by Jolteon, Zebstrika, Raichu, and sometimes Rhyperior, though all of these examples are hard to fit onto a team. Rotom-H is another great candidate, as it resists all of Thundurus's moves and can OHKO with Overheat or if in the rain, 2HKO with Hidden Power.</p>

    skeleton (open)

    -super strong
    -not all that fast but still fast enough
    -great typing (fuck ttar)
    -immune to twave
    -doesn't have prankster which is sad
    -its cool (sorry thats all i got atm)

    -specs tbolt fucks shit up
    -pretty much ohkos anything along the lines of hitmontop, metagross, rotom
    -what it doesn't ohko, it ohkos after a little damage (icy wind) or 2hko's
    -hidden power flying for amoonguss, ludicolo and all of those fighting types running around
    -hp ice for other thundurus-t, dragons, and i guess stuff in general, though its p weak without stab
    -volt switch is like thunderbolt but it gives you a free switch kinda while dealing some damage comparable to thunderbolt
    -grass knot for ground types and fblast for ttar, but you probably won't be using your third slot too often anyway.
    -specs for power
    -scarf for insurance you wont get outsped, which is a big deal considering scarf landog and scarftar can ohko you. also its a 1 time protection against icy wind
    -thunder
    -timid for other thundurus basically since base 100's don't usually run +speed natures even when theyre scarfed and you don't do as much damage, which is especially apparent if you run scarf
    -use 252/252 with hp ice
    -politoed makes a good teammate defensively as well as getting rid of sand stream so grass knot ohkos
    -icy wind cress with hh (thunder wave can heal it too lol)
    -fake out/feint infernape and hitmontop
    -ttar deals chip damage and thund is immune to excadrill eq's

    -more flexible
    -less powerful i guess
    -lo to boost all attacks, egem to boost tbolt (same power as specs tbolt once)
    -protect is pretty useful to scout scarfed mons and wait a turn for speed control to take effect
    -you dont have to worry about locking yourself into the right move
    -thunder
    -timid is slightly more useful here for thund vs thund, especially if they're choiced and locked into tbolt and you're giving up power anyway, so...
    -mostly same teammates
    -hh is especially helpful
    -offensive cress has speed control and is better at doing chip damage since this set is weaker
    -scizor has feint and finishes off stuff with bullet punch

    -Flash Cannon
    -Taunt
    -Nasty Plot
    -Superpower (???)
    -Focus Sash
    -Flying/Ice Gem
    -expert belt
    -bulkier spreads 96 HP 32 Def 248 SpA 8 SpD 124 Speed with HP Flying, and 92 HP 32 Def 252 SpA 4 SpD 132 Spe with HP Ice


    -ttar
    -terrakion
    -mamoswine
    -yache/sash landog
    -weavile
    -fast dragons (latios/kingdra)
    -trick room
    -icy wind cresselia
    -ground/steel types if locked into the wrong move (gastrodon/metagross)
    -oh yeah and lanturn is a huge pain in the ass and it's so obscure that it makes you feel bad when you lose to it
    -also (maybe ironically?) thund-t with hp ice if you're running hp flying
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2013
  2. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    I wish :(

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hitmontop: 135-159 (85.98 - 101.27%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-W: 135-160 (85.98 - 101.91%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Thundurus-T Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 159-187 (85.02 - 100%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO

    Not the best chances to OHKO, and then boy are you hurting when they run just a little bit more bulk.

    There really isn't much else to cover, but it might be a good thing to mention somewhere to mention to give it some bulk so that it can live Dark Gem Bisharp Sucker Punch and take a non-gem/LO Draco from Timid Latios. The spread I use is 96 HP 32 Def 248 SpA 8 SpD 124 Speed with HP Flying, and 92 HP 32 Def 252 SpA 4 SpD 132 Spe with HP Ice which actually lets you outspeed Kingdra(Modest) outside of rain/in tailwind while the HP Flying spread is only a Speed tie.

    Other than that, I'll just stamp this. Probably just mention that spread in OO or something if you want to mention it, but you don't have to.

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  3. AUKTrainer

    AUKTrainer

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    Expert Belt is an option if LO and other items are being used on other Pokemon. Also Sludge Bomb is good for Super Effective damage on Ludicolo and Abomasnow if the coverage against Tyranitar and Terrakion isnt needed.
  4. macle

    macle frog jesus died for your sins
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    QC Approved 2/3
  5. TheFourthChaser

    TheFourthChaser #TimeForChange
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    I can do this!
  6. sirndpt

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    [gp]1/2[/gp]

    i'd pointed it out occasionally in the check, but please read through the whole thing and change all Thundurus to Thundurus-T where you're actually referring to the therian form! it's confusing enough as it is :/

    also, make sure to add <p> </p> tags :p
  7. lucariojr

    lucariojr i'm a lombre from home
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    /me pet sirndpt
  8. Spirit

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    Awesome Job! On top of this being a good read, you have a pretty unique writing style.

    AM Check (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>With its Incarnate form being used almost exclusively as a bulky Thunder Wave user, Thundurus-T is what people think of when they hear 'Offensive Thundurus'. Sporting a staggering base 145 Special Attack, decent coverage and Speed, as well as a great defensive typing and ability, Thundurus-T was always destined for greatness. Although it does face some competition from the likes of Zapdos and Rotom-W for the role of bulky Electric-type, mainly due to its reliance on Hidden Power for extra coverage, Thundurus-T has made a name for itself despite its late arrival.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Hidden Power Flying / Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Grass Knot
    move 4: Volt Switch
    item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Thundurus-T is fairly one-dimensional. With its STAB Thunderbolt and Hidden Power backed by a Choice Specs boost, Thundurus-T is more than capable of ripping holes in the opponent's team, provided you don't get caught out with the wrong move in the wrong situation. Thunderbolt is, again, self-explanatory, but Volt Switch might need more explanation, (RC) due to the rarity of such moves in VGC considering the non-existence of such moves in VGC play other than Thundurus's brother, U-turn Landorus-Therian. The premise behind Volt Switch is this: although Thundurus-Therian hits hard, in a metagame where everything is either EVed to take Dragon Gem Draco Meteors, some Pokemon need softening up before Thundurus is ready to take some heads. Furthermore, Volt Switch hits almost as hard as Thunderbolt does, making it a safe move to throw out in the beginning of the game. The choice of Hidden Power largely depends on how well your team takes on Fighting-types or Dragon-types, but due to STAB, Hidden Power Flying is naturally the more powerful option. Hidden Power Ice,(AC) however,(AC) gives you the edge against other Thundurus-T that chose Hidden Power Flying, as well as being powerful enough to OHKO Yache Berry Garchomp at about the same rate as Scald burns (and we all know how often that is), which is something normally only Ice-types such as Mamoswine and Abomasnow can claim to do. (Period) In the same situation, while Garchomp cannot OHKO Thundurus-T without resorting to the inaccurate Stone Edge.</p>

    <p>As for the last slot, Grass Knot ??? It's in the third slot... I'd suggesting switching the order of the moves or rephrasing that part is the best that Thundurus-T's rather shallow movepool has to offer, but it can be useful in situations where Thundurus-T is left alone with Tyranitar or Gastrodon. It might also be wise to study up on the weights of some Pokemon before haphazardly locking yourself into Grass Knot however. A prime example is Rotom-W, which only takes about 25% from a 20 Base Power super effective Choice Specs-boosted Grass Knot. If you have trouble memorizing weights, pay attention to the 'slamming' animation that most Pokemon make when entering the field.</p>

    <p>This analysis has so far listed a few examples of Thundurus-T's power. It should be noted, however, that those examples are the work of a Choice Specs boost, which means you won't be getting the same mileage out of Choice Scarf. Choice Scarf is still a great option though, as it outspeeds Choice Scarf Tyranitar and Landorus-T, Latios, neutral +1 Volcarona, and other such Pokemon that Thundurus-T might have interest in outspeeding. This makes Choice Scarf Thundurus-T most useful in revenge killing, especially if you have Fake Out users or Pokemon that can easily soften up the opposing team.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Thunder is a viable option when using Thundurus-T with Politoed, especially because of its 30% paralysis chance. Thunder should go over Volt Switch however; because of Tyranitar and Abomasnow, there will be times where you just can't afford to risk them switching in and causing Thunder to miss. A Timid nature could be used, but is mostly only good for outspeeding other Thundurus-T, and in Choice Scarf Thundurus-T's(hyphen) case, Timid Volcarona after a Quiver Dance. The power drop usually isn't worth it because of this, as you barely eke out a 2HKO against 4/0 Timid Volcarona with Hidden Power Flying, and you'll obviously be in a tight spot against Volcarona that opt for a bulkier spread. Another thing to note is that, when using Hidden Power Ice, you should use an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe to avoid wasting EVs.</p>

    <p>As mentioned earlier, Politoed is an excellent partner for Thundurus-T for many reasons. First and foremost, Thundurus-T's Volt Absorb takes advantage of Politoed's Electric-type weakness, making it easier than ever to preserve your precious frog. Secondly, Politoed provides speed If you're not referring to the stat itself, don't capitalize control and Helping Hand support, boosting Thundurus's destructive prowess. (Period) and thirdly Finally, rain brings with it Pokemon such as Kingdra and Ludicolo, who that are more than happy to deal enough damage for Thundurus to be able to clean up later.</p>

    <p>Like Politoed, Cresselia has Helping Hand and speed control in the form of either Icy Wind, Thunder Wave, (AC) or Trick Room, the latter of which can actually benefit Choice Specs Thundurus, as it might find itself outsped by the aforementioned Speed demons. In fact, if you're feeling cheeky, you can even heal Thundurus-T with Cresselia's Thunder Wave. Other anti-Trick Room Pokemon are also much appreciated because of Thundurus-T's relative frailty. Amoonguss is a great example of this, as it can outspeed some, if not most Trick Room attackers with a Sassy nature and put everything to sleep to stall out Trick Room or, in a more general sense, it can keep the heat off of Thundurus while the latter plugs away at the opposing team.</p>

    <p>Tyranitar is an odd option, but it—along with Excadrill— replace these with "&mdash;"appreciates a STAB Thunderbolt working against nasty Water-types, especially Politoed. Excadrill and Thundurus-T can also serve as a 'fast mode' with Excadrill spamming Earthquakes to its heart's content while Thundurus-T takes no damage and spams its own STAB moves. Fake Out users are also much appreciated, especially those with Feint, which allows Thundurus-T to nab some unexpected KOs or simply ease prediction. Examples of these are Infernape, Hitmontop, and Sableye. Other useful Feint users include Scizor and Heracross, both of which take care of Tyranitar, Cresselia, Abomasnow, and sometimes Mamoswine, all of which are threats to Thundurus-T.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Hidden Power Flying / Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Grass Knot
    move 4: Protect
    item: Life Orb / Electric Gem
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While lacking in Speed or attacking prowess, specially attacking Thundurus-T is unique in its versatility. Being able to switch between moves is incredibly useful, considering how Choice Specs or Choice Scarf Thundurus-T is easily walled should it lock itself into an unfavorable move and how easy it is to make that mistake. It also isn’t isn't forced to switch moves and has increased longevity thanks to Protect, which is useful to avoid double-targeting.</p>

    <p>Even though this Thundurus-T is more versatile in its playstyle, its moveslots aren’t aren't very flexible. The standard Thunderbolt, Hidden Power, and Grass Knot core is hard to replace, as it is really all Thundurus-T needs in the first place. The question of which Hidden Power to use is the same as the Choice sets; do you want to hit Dragon-(hyphen) or Fighting-types? There is no wrong answer to this question because it depends largely on your team, so you might find yourself bouncing between the two in practice. Protect is almost non-negotiable, as one of the main draws for a non-Choice set is the ability to use it, but if you don’t feel the need for it, you can easily switch it with Volt Switch to make a miniature Choice set.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Again, Thunder is a great move if you’re using Thundurus-T with Politoed, but beware of opposing weather changers inducers such as Tyranitar, Abomasnow, and miscellaneous Sunny Day users. A Timid nature drops your damage output even further, but can help out with opposing Thundurus-T and other Pokemon that might run odd Speed spreads. Because of this Thundurus’s increased longevity, a Timid nature isn’t isn't such a bad idea considering it might stick around longer to play out those 2HKOs.</p>

    <p>Life Orb is generally the more useful item as it consistently boosts all of Thundurus’s attacks, but if the recoil is a turn-off, Electric Gem provides a one-time boost that is comparable to that of Choice Specs. Additionally, Electric Gem might enable Thundurus-T to bluff a Choice set as long as you don’t don't immediately use Thunderbolt as it doesn’t doesn't It's these curly apostrophes if you've been wondering, lol announce itself otherwise.</p>

    <p>The partners for this set don’t don't differ as much from the Choice set, except Tyranitar is a slightly weaker option considering how quickly Life Orb and Sand Stream damage can accumulate. Helping Hand is especially helpful because of the power difference, and chip damage is all the more useful. Thunder Wave support is not only helpful for speed control, but also to offset Thundurus’s Life Orb recoil. Feint is slightly more helpful if you reveal the fact that you’re not Choice-locked, which makes opponents more reliant on Protect to stave off Thundurus’s powerful Thunderbolts and coverage moves.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Thundurus-T has a few tricks up its cotton-candied sleeve, but unfortunately the vast majority of them are very situational. Flash Cannon is actually rather useful to hit both Abomasnow and Tyranitar super effectively, but it still can't KO either consistently, even with a Choice Specs boost. Focus Blast would be a great option for those two as well if it didn't have an atrocious 70% accuracy, which might seem like a fair trade, but in reality it isn't worth it because both Pokemon usually hold Focus Sashes or Chople Berries to mitigate their Fighting-type weakness. Superpower has more appealing accuracy and still has Thundurus-T's overlooked base 105 Attack to work off of, but requires investment to OHKO anything, and even then it's vulnerable to Intimidate Attack drops. Taunt and Nasty Plot can be useful in the special attacker Don't capitalize set names here set, where Grass Knot is used even less often. Taunt can shut down Trick Room or Amoonguss (since it can't OHKO specially defensive ones variants), which is actually very helpful, but is still a rather situational move especially considering how frail Thundurus-T can be is. Nasty Plot, when given a turn to set up, can mow down Pokemon that usually check it, such as Cresselia, Tyranitar, and Rotom-W, and even OHKOes its bulky Incarnate counterpart. The problem lies with Thundurus-T actually getting the boost and staying alive afterwards after the opponent starts to focus fire on the suddenly very threatening Therian.</p>

    <p>In terms of other items, the regular attacking Thundurus-T has a lot to choose from, including Focus Sash, Ice or Flying Gems, and Expert Belt. Focus Sash is attractive, but usually not worth the drop in power unless you're interested in OHKOing Terrakion or Landorus-T without having to lock Thundurus-T into Grass Knot or Hidden Power and trusting that they aren't holding their own Focus Sashes. I don't think you need to mention this part, it seems self-explanatory. Flying and Ice Gems provide a Specs-esque boost, but only to their respective Hidden Powers, which don't usually have much to gain from a Gem boost. Expert Belt can provide power and versatility, but more importantly it can bluff Choice items. Expert Belt requires a super effective hit however, and even when it does, it doesn't provide a boost like a Gem or Life Orb would, which means Thundurus-T might miss out on some KOs on Pokemon such as Metagross.</p>

    <p>A bulkier EV spread might seem like a waste and overshadowed by Thundurus's bulky spreads, but can actually be useful against common attacks, especially if you're using Thundurus-T's excellent synergy with Water-types. A spread of 96 HP / 32 Def / 248 SpA / 8 SpD / 124 Spe allows Thundurus-T to survive attacks such as Bisharp's Dark Gem-boosted Sucker Punch Bisharp and Timid Latios's non-Life Orb or Dragon Gem-boosted Latios's Draco Meteor, allowing Thundurus-T to actually KO the two or at least heavily damage them without having to worry about Speed or priority ruining its day. Of course, that spread is for Hidden Power Flying, so you should use 92 HP / 32 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 132 Spe when using Hidden Power Ice.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While Thundurus-T might be able to poke massive holes in your team, if you've EVed your Pokemon to take powerful Dragon Gem-boosted Draco Meteors, you've won half the battle already. Pokemon such as Cresselia and Tyranitar can already take such attacks and either OHKO Thundurus (you might want to Protect to rack up a turn of sandstorm damage to maximize your chances) or slow it down for other Pokemon to KO it. Simply outspeeding it and smacking it with a powerful STAB move is sometimes all it takes to quell the Thundur, which is precisely what Mamoswine, Terrakion, Choice Scarf Tyranitar, (AC) and Weavile do from the start. Fast Draco Meteors are also great deterrents for Thundurus, and they mostly come from the likes of Latios or Kingdra in the rain. Kingdra can be especially dangerous because it's usually in a rain team's best interest to KO Thundurus as soon as possible. Choice Thundurus are easy to predict around if you have reason to believe it is in fact Choice-locked, as Thundurus has a tendency to lock itself into an undesirable move early-game. Pokemon that can take advantage of this misfortune are Gastrodon and Metagross, as well as just about every Pokemon previously mentioned. Trick Room is deadly with the right attackers, which more often than not,(AC) includes Tyranitar or Abomasnow, both of which obviously OHKO Thundurus-T with little hassle.</p>

    <p>As far as counters go, Lanturn is the #1 anti-Thundurus-T Pokemon. Not only does it resist or is immune to every move Thundurus can throw at it (besides unorthodox options such as Focus Blast), its Grass Knot only hits for 40 Base Power, which only pulls out a 4HKO, without even factoring in healing. With this extra time on its hands, Lanturn can casually slow Thundurus with Icy Wind or chip away at it with STAB Water-type moves or Ice Beam. Lanturn is also a potential problem for rain teams, but doesn't fare too well against other teams that happen to include Thundurus-T. Perhaps ironically, Hidden Power Flying Thundurus-T are susceptible to Thundurus-T that opt for Hidden Power Ice because of Volt Absorb negating its primary STAB. Similarly, Hidden Power Flying Thundurus-T is also effectively walled by Jolteon, Zebstrika, Raichu, and sometimes Rhyperior, though all of these examples are hard to fit onto a team. Rotom-H is another great candidate, as it resists all of Thundurus's moves and can OHKO with Overheat or if in the rain, 2HKO with Hidden Power.</p>
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2013
  9. Lemonade.

    Lemonade. formerly V0x
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    I'll take a look at your AM check and (possibly) make some changes over it

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    Awesome Job! On top of this being a good read, you have a pretty unique writing style.

    [Overview]

    <p>With Since its Incarnate form is being* used almost exclusively as a bulky Thunder Wave user, Thundurus-T is what people think of when they hear '"Offensive Thundurus"'**. Sporting a staggering base 145 Special Attack, decent coverage and Speed, as well as a great defensive typing and ability, Thundurus-T was always destined for greatness. Although it does face some competition from the likes of Zapdos and Rotom-W for the role of bulky Electric-type, mainly due to its reliance on Hidden Power for extra coverage, Thundurus-T has made a name for itself despite its late arrival.</p>

    *Generally avoid the word "being" because it sounds very awkward. If you read both out loud, IMO most people would say the new version flows better. (I felt this was necessary to clarify because it may seem like an unnecessary change).

    **Use double quotes (even though it doesn't really matter).


    [SET]
    name: Choice
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Hidden Power Flying / Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Grass Knot
    move 4: Volt Switch
    item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Thundurus-T is fairly one-dimensional. With its STAB Thunderbolt and Hidden Power backed by a Choice Specs boost, Thundurus-T is more than capable of ripping holes in the opponent's team, provided you it doesn't don't get caught out with the wrong move in the wrong situation. Thunderbolt is, again,* self-explanatory, but Volt Switch might need more explanation, (RC) due to the rarity of such moves in VGC considering the non-existence of such moves in VGC play other than Thundurus's brother, U-turn Landorus-Therian. The premise behind Volt Switch is this: although Thundurus-Therian hits hard, in a metagame where everything is either EVed to take Dragon Gem Draco Meteors, some Pokemon need softening up before Thundurus is ready to take some heads. Furthermore, Volt Switch hits almost as hard as Thunderbolt does, making it a safe move to throw out in the beginning of the game. The choice of Hidden Power largely depends on how well your team takes on Fighting-types or Dragon-types, but due to STAB, Hidden Power Flying is naturally the more powerful option. Hidden Power Ice,(AC) however,(AC) gives you the edge against other Thundurus-T that chose Hidden Power Flying, as well as being and it is powerful enough to OHKO Yache Berry Garchomp at about the same rate as Scald burns (and we all know how often that is), which is something normally only Ice-types such as Mamoswine and Abomasnow can claim to do. (Period) In the same situation, while Garchomp cannot OHKO Thundurus-T without resorting to the inaccurate Stone Edge.</p>

    *Again implies there is something (a set) before the listed one that also has Thunderbolt. However, this is the first set in the analysis, so "again" does not fit.

    <p>As for the last slot, Grass Knot ??? It's in the third slot... I'd suggesting switching the order of the moves or rephrasing that part is the best that Thundurus-T's rather shallow movepool has to offer, but it can be useful in situations where Thundurus-T is left alone with against* Tyranitar or Gastrodon. It might also be wise to study up on the weights of some Pokemon before haphazardly locking yourself into Grass Knot however. A prime example is Rotom-W, which only takes about 25% from a 20 Base Power super effective Choice Specs-boosted Grass Knot. If you have trouble memorizing weights, pay attention to the 'slamming' animation that most Pokemon make when entering the field.</p>

    *If you mean T-tar and Gastrodon on the other team, then "against" is the better word.

    <p>This analysis has so far listed a few examples of Thundurus-T's power. It should be noted, however, that those examples are the work of a Choice Specs boost, which means you won't be getting the same mileage out of Choice Scarf. Choice Scarf is still a great option though, as it outspeeds Choice Scarf Tyranitar and Landorus-T, Latios, neutral +1 Volcarona, and other such Pokemon that Thundurus-T might have interest in outspeeding. This makes Choice Scarf Thundurus-T most useful in revenge killing, especially if you have Fake Out users or Pokemon that can easily soften up the opposing team.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Thunder is a viable option when using Thundurus-T with Politoed, especially because of its 30% paralysis chance. Thunder should go over Volt Switch however; because of Tyranitar and Abomasnow, there will be times where you Thundurus-T just can't afford to risk them switching in and causing Thunder to miss. A Timid nature could be used, but is mostly only good for outspeeding other Thundurus-T, and in Choice Scarf Thundurus-T's(hyphen) case, Timid Volcarona after a Quiver Dance. The power drop usually isn't worth it because of this, as you Thundurus-T barely ekes out a 2HKO against 4/0 Timid Volcarona with Hidden Power Flying, and you'll it'll obviously be in a tight spot against Volcarona that opt for a bulkier spread. Another thing to note is that, when using Hidden Power Ice, you* should use an EV spread of 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe to avoid wasting EVs.</p>

    *Leaving "you" here is fine since it is you who is EVing the Pokemon. It is a bit arbitrary, but in general if it is you the trainer doing something you is fine.

    <p>As mentioned earlier, Politoed is an excellent partner for Thundurus-T for many reasons. First and foremost, Thundurus-T's Volt Absorb takes advantage of Politoed's Electric-type weakness, making it easier than ever to preserve your precious frog. Secondly, Politoed provides speed If you're not referring to the stat itself, don't capitalize control and Helping Hand support, boosting Thundurus's destructive prowess. (Period) and thirdly Finally, rain brings with it Pokemon such as Kingdra and Ludicolo, which* who that are more than happy to deal enough damage for Thundurus to be able to clean up later.</p>

    *Use which instead of that after a comma.

    <p>Like Politoed, Cresselia has Helping Hand and speed control in the form of either Icy Wind, Thunder Wave, (AC) or Trick Room, the latter of which can actually benefit Choice Specs Thundurus, as it might find itself outsped by the aforementioned Speed demons. In fact, if you're feeling cheeky, you can even heal Thundurus-T with Cresselia's Thunder Wave. Other anti-Trick Room Pokemon are also much appreciated because of Thundurus-T's relative frailty. Amoonguss is a great example of this, as it can outspeed some, if not most Trick Room attackers with a Sassy nature and put everything to sleep to stall out Trick Room or, in a more general sense, it can keep the heat off of Thundurus while the latter plugs away at the opposing team.</p>

    <p>Tyranitar is an odd option, but it—along with Excadrill— replace these with "&mdash;"appreciates a STAB Thunderbolt working against nasty Water-types, especially Politoed. Excadrill and Thundurus-T can also serve as a '"fast mode"' with Excadrill spamming Earthquakes to its heart's content while Thundurus-T takes no damage and spams its own STAB moves. Fake Out users are also much appreciated, especially those with Feint, which allows Thundurus-T to nab some unexpected KOs or simply ease prediction. Examples of these are Infernape, Hitmontop, and Sableye. Other useful Feint users include Scizor and Heracross, both of which take care of Tyranitar, Cresselia, Abomasnow, and sometimes Mamoswine, all of which are threats to Thundurus-T.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Thunderbolt
    move 2: Hidden Power Flying / Hidden Power Ice
    move 3: Grass Knot
    move 4: Protect
    item: Life Orb / Electric Gem
    ability: Volt Absorb
    nature: Modest
    evs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While lacking in Speed or attacking prowess, specially attacking Thundurus-T is unique in its versatility. Being able to switch between moves is incredibly useful, considering how Choice Specs or Choice Scarf Thundurus-T is easily walled should it lock itself into an unfavorable move and how easy it is to make that mistake. It also isn’t isn't forced to switch moves and has increased longevity thanks to Protect, which is useful to avoid double-targeting.</p>

    <p>Even though this Thundurus-T is more versatile in its playstyle, its moveslots aren’t aren't very flexible. The standard Thunderbolt, Hidden Power, and Grass Knot core is hard to replace, as it is really all Thundurus-T needs in the first place. The question of which Hidden Power to use is the same as the Choice sets; do you want to hit Dragon-(hyphen) or Fighting-types? There is no wrong answer to this question because it depends largely on your team, so you might find yourself bouncing between the two in practice. Protect is almost non-negotiable, as one of the main draws for a non-Choice set is the ability to use it, but if you don’t feel the need for it, you can easily switch it with Volt Switch to make a miniature Choice set.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Again, Thunder is a great move if you’re using Thundurus-T with Politoed, but beware of opposing weather changers inducers such as Tyranitar, Abomasnow, and miscellaneous Sunny Day users. A Timid nature drops your Thundurus-T's damage output even further, but can help out with opposing Thundurus-T and other Pokemon that might run odd Speed spreads. Because of this Thundurus’s increased longevity, a Timid nature isn’t isn't such a bad idea considering it might stick around longer to play out those 2HKOs.</p>

    <p>Life Orb is generally the more useful item as it consistently boosts all of Thundurus’s attacks, but if the recoil is a turn-off, Electric Gem provides a one-time boost that is comparable to that of Choice Specs. Additionally, Electric Gem might enable Thundurus-T to bluff a Choice set as long as you don’t don't immediately use Thunderbolt,[comma] as it doesn’t doesn't It's these curly apostrophes if you've been wondering, lol announce itself otherwise.</p>

    <p>The partners for this set don’t don't differ as much from the Choice set, except Tyranitar is a slightly weaker option considering how quickly Life Orb and Sand Stream damage can accumulate. Helping Hand is especially helpful because of the power difference, and chip damage is all the more useful. Thunder Wave support is not only helpful for speed control, but also to offset Thundurus’s Life Orb recoil. Feint is slightly more helpful if you reveal the fact that you’re Thundurus-T is not Choice-locked, which makes opponents more reliant on Protect to stave off Thundurus’s powerful Thunderbolts and coverage moves.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Thundurus-T has a few tricks up its cotton-candied sleeve, but unfortunately the vast majority of them are very situational. Flash Cannon is actually rather useful to hit both Abomasnow and Tyranitar super effectively, but it still can't KO either consistently, even with a Choice Specs boost. Focus Blast would be a great option for those two as well if it didn't have an atrocious 70% accuracy, which might seem like a fair trade, but in reality it isn't worth it because both Pokemon usually hold Focus Sashes or Chople Berries to mitigate their Fighting-type weakness. Superpower has more appealing accuracy and still has Thundurus-T's overlooked base 105 Attack to work off of, but requires investment to OHKO anything, and even then it's vulnerable to Intimidate Attack drops. Taunt and Nasty Plot can be useful in the special attacker Don't capitalize set names here set, where Grass Knot is used even less often. Taunt can shut down Trick Room or Amoonguss (since it Thundurus-T can't OHKO specially defensive ones variants), which is actually very helpful, but is still a rather situational move especially considering how frail Thundurus-T can be is. Nasty Plot, when given a turn to set up, can mow down Pokemon that usually check it, such as Cresselia, Tyranitar, and Rotom-W, and even OHKOinges its bulky Incarnate counterpart. The problem lies with Thundurus-T actually getting the boost and staying alive afterwards after the opponent starts to focus fire on the suddenly very threatening Therian.</p>

    <p>In terms of other items, the regular attacking Thundurus-T has a lot to choose from, including Focus Sash, Ice or Flying Gems, and Expert Belt. Focus Sash is attractive, but usually not worth the drop in power unless you're interested in OHKOing Terrakion or Landorus-T without having to lock Thundurus-T into Grass Knot or Hidden Power and trusting that they aren't holding their own Focus Sashes. I don't think you need to mention this part, it seems self-explanatory. Flying and Ice Gems provide a Specs-esque boost, but only to their respective Hidden Powers, which don't usually have much to gain from a Gem boost. Expert Belt can provide power and versatility, but more importantly it can bluff Choice items. Expert Belt requires a super effective hit however, and even when it does, it doesn't provide a boost like a Gem or Life Orb would, which means Thundurus-T might miss out on some KOs on Pokemon such as Metagross.</p>

    <p>A bulkier EV spread might seem like a waste and overshadowed by Thundurus's bulky spreads, but can actually be useful against common attacks, especially if you're using Thundurus-T's excellent synergy with Water-types. A spread of 96 HP / 32 Def / 248 SpA / 8 SpD / 124 Spe allows Thundurus-T to survive attacks such as Bisharp's Dark Gem-boosted Sucker Punch Bisharp and Timid Latios's non-Life Orb or Dragon Gem-boosted Latios's Draco Meteor, allowing Thundurus-T to actually KO the two or at least heavily damage them without having to worry about Speed or priority ruining its day. Of course, that spread is for Hidden Power Flying, so you should use 92 HP / 32 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 132 Spe when using Hidden Power Ice.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While Thundurus-T might be able to poke massive holes in your team, if you've EVed your Pokemon to take powerful Dragon Gem-boosted Draco Meteors, you've won half the battle already. Pokemon such as Cresselia and Tyranitar can already take such attacks and either OHKO Thundurus (you might want to Protect to rack up a turn of sandstorm damage to maximize your chances) or slow it down for other Pokemon to KO it. Simply outspeeding it and smacking it with a powerful STAB move is sometimes all it takes to quell the Thundur(what does this mean?), which is precisely what Mamoswine, Terrakion, Choice Scarf Tyranitar, (AC) and Weavile do from the start. Fast Draco Meteors are also great deterrents for Thundurus, and they mostly come from the likes of Latios or Kingdra in the rain. Kingdra can be especially dangerous because it's usually in a rain team's best interest to KO Thundurus as soon as possible. Choice Thundurus are easy to predict around if you have reason to believe it is in fact Choice-locked, as Thundurus has a tendency to lock itself into an undesirable move early-game. Pokemon that can take advantage of this misfortune are Gastrodon and Metagross, as well as just about every Pokemon previously mentioned. Trick Room is deadly with the right attackers, which more often than not,(AC) includes Tyranitar or Abomasnow, both of which obviously OHKO Thundurus-T with little hassle.</p>

    <p>As far as counters go, Lanturn is the #1 anti-Thundurus-T Pokemon. Not only does it resist or is immune to every move Thundurus can throw at it (besides unorthodox options such as Focus Blast), its Thundurus's Grass Knot only hits for 40 Base Power, which only pulls out a 4HKO, without even factoring in healing. With this extra time on its hands, Lanturn can casually slow Thundurus with Icy Wind or chip away at it with STAB Water-type moves or Ice Beam. Lanturn is also a potential problem for rain teams, but doesn't fare too well against other teams that happen to include Thundurus-T. Perhaps ironically, Hidden Power Flying Thundurus-T are susceptible to Thundurus-T that opt for Hidden Power Ice because of Volt Absorb negates negating its primary STAB. Similarly, Hidden Power Flying Thundurus-T is also effectively walled by Jolteon, Zebstrika, Raichu, and sometimes Rhyperior, though all of these examples are hard to fit onto a team. Rotom-H is another great candidate, as it resists all of Thundurus's moves and can OHKO with Overheat or if in the rain, 2HKO with Hidden Power.</p>


    nice job overall~
    [​IMG]

    GP 2/2
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2013
  10. lucariojr

    lucariojr i'm a lombre from home
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,540
    omg i did not know there was a final gp check i am so sorry ;_;

    ready for upload i guess

    e: also 'quell the thundur' references a Theodore Roosevelt speech ("Quell the storm and ride the thunder"). it makes the analysis seem more smert B)

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