Thundurus-Therian (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

Mr. Uncompetitive

That Power is yet Unknown...
is a Pre-Contributor
#26
Well holy crap this is a long post .-.

-Focus the overview on why you would use this over Thundurus, aka the most powerful Thunder in the game (be sure to mention that the 30% paralysis rate is a KILLER bonus) and Volt Absorb. However you also need to mention its flaws, like losing Pranskter and being slower than Latias, Latios, and Garchomp.
Something I was already planning to address, I'll make sure to put more emphasis of this in the revamp.

-Make Thunder the first move, that extremely powerful Thunder is what DEFINES Thundurus-T in Ubers. Also make Focus Blast the second move as a stand alone, Thundurus-T really needs it to hit Ferrothorn, Dialga, Excadrill, and Tyranitar hard.
Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you say about Thunder. Despite its terribad accuracy, I can understand why you say Focus Blast would be second slot. I personally just switch out if possible cause I don't like dealing with accuracy gambles such as Focus Blast on Pokemon as frail as Thundy, but it really does solve a lot of his coverage issues so I'm fine with it being 2nd slot.

-Alright here's the biggest change: replace U-turn with Nasty Plot, but still keep Volt Turn. so Volt Turn / Nasty Plot in the third slot.Volt Turn is still the same bussiness, but mention that you generally use it with Grass Knot to hit Groudon hard unless you really need to be able to OHKO Rayquaza without the risk of a Thunder miss and 2HKO Giratina-O after SR. Now lets talk about Nasty Plot... Nasty Plot's main purpose isn't actually to sweep. The main idea of it is that you can use it to get past several of Thundurus-T's big problems when paired with Hidden Power Ice. +2 HP Ice deals 72-85% to physically defensive Giratina, 54-64% to specially defensive Giratina, you OHKO most Giratina-O after SR, OHKO Zekrom, and you 2HKO Chansey and Blissey via Focus Blast. Also mention that you deal 67-80% to 160 HP Latias, and while normally Latias will outspeed you, if you get the paralysis with Thunder, you can use NP as a chance to get a surprise kill on Latias later on the match. Make it clear that you aren't usually using Nasty Plot as a sweeping tool though, Thundurus-T has a very hard time setting up, and its speed, while good for an all out attacker, doesn't really help with sweeping much, as it gets revenged by ANYTHING thats faster than it (so scarfers, Mewtwo, Darkrai, Latias/Latios, Arceus, ExtremeSpeed). Instead, mention that Nasty Plot is more of a tool that allows Thundurus-T to break through some stuff it normally cant, actual sweeping tends to be a lot more situational. Oh one more thing to mention somewhere: with NP, you are gonna have to play more carefully with Groudon, you can't OHKO it with an unboosted HP Ice (though it still does a meaty 57-68% to max HP Groudon) since using Grass Knot totally destroys the point of Nasty Plot.
Big change, though I can understand where you're going with this. Thundy has massive problems when it came to getting past Special Walls who didn't care about Thunder. So using NP Thundy like NP Ninetales (basically only to break down walls and not to sweep) wasn't exactly something I had in mind when using him, but when a wall did switch in while Thundy used Nasty Plot, they would be in for a hell of a lot of damage. Though I still think Volt Switch is far more important than NP, I can't really deny it being useful in certain scenarios.

-Mention U-turn in AC, it still does the scouting job and hurts Latias more so its worth a mention.
Okay with me, I personally prefer Volt Switch.

-Agility should be mentioned in AC as a surprise move to clean up faster weakened mons, at the cost of scouting or wall breaking.
Sounds fine with me.

-In the Kyogre section, I wouldn't call it a prime teammate, I'd go as far as to say that its 100% required, Thundurus-T is all about that powerful Thunder! I think you should also mention Thunder Wave Kyogre as a teammate: it lures in Latias, Latios, and Palkia, and totally screws them up. This is ESPECIALLY helpful for NP since a paralyzed Latias is screwed once it gets around that 67% range and is paralyzed. Grass Arceus can also be another good Twaver that can lure in Latias.
Hmm okay, I'll reword that part and emphasize Paralysis support.

-In addition to the part where you mention Steelceus, mention that Ferrothorn fits in pretty well too, and it can use hazards + twave to support Thundurus-T.
I'll add that in alongside Arceus Steel and Arceus Grass, sure.

-Remove Dialga, Ferrothorn, and the Kyurems as problems. While Dialga and Ferrothorn aren't OHKOed by Focus Blast, both take over 70% so I wouldn't call them Thundurus-T's big problems. the Kyurems are also OHKOed after SR BEFORE a boost. Latias an Latios stay for sure since you need support to have a chance against those two, Chansey, Blissey, and Giratina can be mentioned with the condition that you dont have an NP boost. Thundurus-T's real problem is that anything that is faster than it is going to murder it... so basicly a ton of scarfers, Terrakion, Darkrai, Mewtwo, and almost every Arceus. That is sadly... a really diverse crew right there. I wouldn't get too specific here since thankfully Thundurus-T doesn't usually try to sweep, so the closest things I can mention to teammates on this part are: Scarf Genesect can scare off Latias, Latios, Darkrai, and Mewtwo, Wobbuffet can revenge kill scarfers, can screw up most offensive Mewtwo in the rain once, and help set up NP during emergency situations. Otherwise... smart switches are your friends here.
How the hell did I forget to mention Genesect .-.
Genesect would indeed help Thundy a lot. Wobbu I'm kinda skeptical about to be honest (like many have pointed out, there are tons of "better" Pokemon to set up with Wobbu) though I still wouldn't really mind making a mention of him as he would indeed help Thundy in getting an NP.
And yeah I'll remove every bulkier attacker Thundy can outspeed and KO with Focus Blast and I'll put more emphasis on faster offensive mons. They deserve a C&C mention for sure, but I wouldn't really call them big threats in hindsight.

-Add Tentacruel and Excadrill to the spinners list, both are very good on rain teams.
Sounds cool to me.

-Remove all the stuff about hazards, pretty much every offensive mon likes that. Instead, mention hazards when you mention teammates that can set them up, aka Excadrill, Forretress, Ferrothorn.
Sure.

-In Checks and Counters, the FIRST thing that should be mentioned is that Thundurus-T is hard to switch into beacuse of the powerful Thunder + Volt Switch stuff, but very very easy to revenge kill. aka Mewtwo, Darkrai, Arceusformes, scarfers, and priority attacks (I know you mentioned this, but this needs to be what you first mention). Then mention the hazards, then mention how Giratina, Chansey, and Blissey beat non Nasty Plot versions.
I'm pretty sure I already put that in as the first thing I mentioned, but I'll put more emphasis on it and the fact that Thundy can be revenge killed.

Okay... that was a fucking lot to say, and I'm really sorry this has been taking so long. I trust you'll implement these changes though, so QC Approved 2/3!
Thank you!

I'll update the OP with all this stuff soon. Editing this post once I do so.
 

Mr. Uncompetitive

That Power is yet Unknown...
is a Pre-Contributor
#27
Sorry for double posting but I'm kinda anxious and the last post was insanely big.

Okay the stuff should be implemented now (again, knowing me I forgot something) and various things in AC, OO, and C&C were changed to reflect this. The one I really didn't go all the way with was its uses over Thundurus-I. While I mentioned it, it wasn't a central focus (this is something I feel is more worth implementing into the actual writing rather than the skelly tbh).

Just need one last QC check (or me getting yelled at by another QC member cause I forgot something) so I can get to writing this
 

Mr. Uncompetitive

That Power is yet Unknown...
is a Pre-Contributor
#29
I think this is ready for GP now. (Ya I know this took forever to do)

Feel free to post if you think I'm missing something or my prose/grammar/vocabulary sucks
 

tehy

Banned deucer.
#30
AMcheck;add blue cut red comments below.

Maybe post here http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471267&page=22 that Ubers Thundurus-T is ready for checks?

[Overview]
<p>While often finding itself in the shadow of its already uncommon Incarnate forme, Thundurus-Therian is by no means something to take lightly, even in the Ubers tier. Easily the most noticeable of all is his incredible Special Attack stat, which gives him the single most powerful Thunder in the game, excluding the more or less irrelevant Analytic Magnezone, a feat that is not to be underestimated, as Thunder is a very potent move in the Ubers tier. His speed stat of 101 isn’t bad either, allowing him to outspeed the plethora of Base 90s and 95s. The ability Volt Absorb and his Ground immunity give him plenty of opportunities to switch in and wreak havoc. Access to two great setup moves, Nasty Plot and Agility, only further prove how threatening he can become.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, several shortcomings hold Thundurus-T back from becoming a top-tier threat. The biggest problem isn’t exactly a flaw Thundurus-T himself has, but rather of the existence of Thundurus-I, who gives Thundurus-T huge competition, thanks to a better Speed tier and the amazing ability Prankster, at the cost of some Special Attack. Zekrom also provides competition, due to having a Dragon typing, more mixed offenses, and much better bulk. Speaking of bulk, Thundurus-T has a major lack of it, meaning any decently powerful attack is likely to KO him, as well as an undesirable Stealth Rock weakness. Despite getting nearly perfect coverage with Focus Blast and Hidden Power Ice alongside Thunder, Focus Blast is rather inaccurate and Hidden Power Ice is a very weak move in the Ubers tier, so he can be walled relatively easily. Finally, Thundurus-T's speed, while decent, isn't quite good enough to outspeed threats like Arceus, Latias, Mewtwo, Darkrai, and the plethora of weather abusers and Choice Scarf users, so it will often find itself getting revenge killed without much trouble. Regardless, Thundurus-T's access to one of the strongest Thunders in the game and two great immunities grant him a lease of life in Ubers. If you don't use him to his strengths, however, you'll find there are other Pokemon more suited for your team.</p>
[SET]
name: Life Orb Attacker
move 1: Thunder
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Volt Switch / Nasty Plot
move 4: Grass Knot / Hidden Power Ice
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
ivs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>If you intend to use Thundurus-T in Ubers, this is by far the best set to use. Between having a good speed tier, a high Special Attack stat, and not really minding taking recoil considering how frail he already his, Thundurus-T makes a great Life Orb Attacker against the slower Base 90s and 95s existing in the tier. Thunder is simply non-negotiable for the choice of STAB move. C, considering how prevalent Rrain is, which gives it perfect accuracy, as well as its how high base power and chance of paralysis, the fact that Thundurus-T gets one of the strongest Thunder in the game only makes it all the more appealing. Although Focus Blast has very shaky accuracy, it is absolutely necessary in order to solve some of Thundurus-T's issues againstwith Pokemon such as Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Tyranitar and the Kyurem formes.</p>

<p>The third slot is where it starts to get tricky. Volt Switch is usually the preferred option, as it allows Thundurus-T to scout switch-ins which it won't be able to fight normally while still dealing a sizable amount of damage and then getting in a counter. Nasty Plot is a more direct approach to dealing with counters byhecks, allowing you to boost your offenses while your opponent switches in a counterheck and giving you the strength you need to power through said counterheck. Do be aware that Nasty Plot should only be used if you need to break through walls, it should not be used to sweep. The final slot really depends on what you are running in the third slot. Grass Knot may seem like an odd choice, but it allows you to OHKO Groudon and 2HKO Arceus-Ground, both of which can easily stop Thundurus-T from using Volt Switch. The lack of coverage against some Dragons and Arceus formes isn't really a deal breaker, since you can just use Volt Switch out of such threats, and Thundurus-T shouldn't be picking a fight with most of them in the first place. If you intend to use Nasty Plot, however, then Hidden Power Ice will give more overall coverage against some of the slower Dragons, such as Giratina, that would otherwise wall Thundurus-T, and after a boost it can do more damage to Groudon and Arceus-Ground than unboosted Grass Knot could unboosted.</p>
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The EVs are rather straightforward, dumping as much as possible into Special Attack and Speed. The remaining 4 EVs are put into Defense so that he can switch into Stealth Rock an extra time. The IVs are, of course, only used if you wish to use Hidden Power Ice. A Timid nature is essential to this set's success, as Thundurus-T needs every bit of Speed it can get. There are a few noteworthy alternatives for the above moves. First off there is U-Turn, which can replace Volt Switch if you are desperate for the ability to scout Ground type switch-ins. It also deals moderate damage to incoming Latias, Latios, and Mewtwo. However, the lack of overall power typically makes it inferior in comparison to Volt Switch. Agility is also an option that can be used over Nasty Plot. This mean Thundurus-T can do more than just punch holes into slower Ubers threats since it now can clean late-game if it gets the chance to set up. However, finding thise time to set up is perhaps the biggest flaw with this move. Unlike Nasty Plot Thundurus-T, Agility Thundurus-T is helpless if the switch-in is something that would normally wall him like Giratina-A or Blissey. Attempting to use it late-game also tends to get you killed, since at this point typically all wthat's left on the foe's team are fast sweepers or cleaners who can easily bring Thundurus-T down.</p>
<p>If there is one teammate that is absolutely necessary when using Thundurus-T, it's Kyogre. Not only does it provide the Rain support he needs to use Thunder with perfect accuracy, but it also can give Thundurus-T free switch-ins from the Electric attacks often aimed at it. Choice Kyogre can come in more easily through Volt Switch, with Choice Scarf Kyogre dealing with the faster threats that Thundurus-T cannot fight and Choice Specs Kyogre breaking through the walls to make his job easier. Thunder Wave Kyogre can also be of use by slowing down foes to make Thundurus-T not have to worry about being outsped as much. Arceus-Steel makes an interesting core with Kyogre and Thundurus-T, as he resists Grass, Ice, and Rock moves, all of which are moves the other two are weak to, as well as Dragon moves, which are extremely common and deadly in the tier. Arceus-Grass, on the other hand, can deal with Groudon and Arceus-Ground, two Pokemon Thundurus-T often has issues with if he doesn't land ahave Grass Knot, and also spread paralysis. Ferrothorn can also provide paralysis support and has the ability to lay hazards.</p>
<p>Thundurus-T has issues with bulky Dragons like Latias, Latios, and Giratina, as well as Blissey and Chansey. Strong Pphysical sweepers such as Terrakion, Zekrom, and Rayquaza can use the momentum provided by Volt Switch to come in and take care of these Pokemon. As mentioned before, he also issues inwith his speed, so a fast cleaner or revenge killer will certainly be of use. Genesect, in particular, can get rid of Latias and Latios, two of Thundurus-T's greatest enemies. Wobbuffett is also a teammate that can come in handy should a situation ever arise where Thundurus-T desperately needs to pull off a Nasty Plot boost. Finally, Thundurus-T has a glaring weakness to Stealth Rocks, so a spinner is always a welcome partner. Kabutops can spin and fight against Dialga, Arceus-Ground, and, to an extent, Ferrothorn, all of which are solid checks to Thundurus-T. He also attracts Electric moves due to his weakness that Thundurus-T can switch into. Forretress, another spinner, can tank a few physical hits while laying hazards and giving momentum with Volt Switch. Excadrill and Tentacruel are also good choices for spinners, since they have good synergy with the Rain teams Thundurus-T is commonly part of.</p>
[Other Options]
<p>Unfortunately, Thundurus-T has a relatively shallow movepool, but there are still some sets and moves that are usable options. Perhaps the next best idea after the Life Orb set would be a Choice Scarf set. By eEquipping himThundurus-T with a Choice Scarf, Thundurus-T gains a substantial amount of speed, enough to lets him outspeed the entire unboosted metagame, save for Deoxys-S. You can use Volt Switch early game to rack up damage and scout, and then revenge kill or clean up late-game using Thundurus-T's great coverage. Unfortunately, being locking into an eElectric attack is not really a good thing considering how incredibly common Groudon is, and Focus Blast and Hidden Power Ice aren't exactly good moves to be locked into either. Not to mention, he loses out on a substantial amount of power without Life Orb and will often find ithimself outclassed by other Scarf users such as Palkia, and as such is not recommended. For similar reasons, a Choice Specs is also not recommended. An Expert Belt set is always an option, but Choice Thundurus-T is rather uncommon, so bluffing a Choice set is rather pointless. The lack of power from the Life Orb set and the lack of speed from the Choice Scarf set make it all the more useless.</p>
<p>A set utilizing Nasty Plot and Substitute is an option to attempt to become a stallbreaker. Unfortunately, Thundurus-T seriously lacks the bulk to pull off such a set, as almost every Pokemon is capable of breaking its sub or phazing it. This job is best left off to bulky Sub CM users like Giratina-O. Even Thundurus-I can pull such a set off better, thanks to its access to Prankster Substitutes. Thunderbolt can be used instead of Thunder if one doesn't have access to rain, but because Rain is so omnipresent in Ubers, plus the higher power and paralyzing rate, there really isn't much of a reason not to use Thunder over Thunderbolt. He also has a decent Attack stat. While its physical movepool is rather barren, it does get Superpower, which, with a Life Orb and without investment, has a good chance of 2HKOing Blissey and, after Stealth Rock, Chansey, and can OHKO Tyranitar. It also gets Crunch, which 2HKOes Latias and Latios after Stealth Rock given the same amount of investment and with Life Orb. Thundurus-T also has a few support options in Thunder Wave and Taunt, but this is best left to Thundurus-I, who hase access to Prankster which gives it priority in usingwith these same support moves.</p>
[Checks and Counters]
<p>Outright countering Thundurus-T is rather difficult. This is due to his because he is capable of simply scouting switch-ins with Volt Switch or U-Turn, getting extra power with Nasty Plot, and launching devastating Thunders that can also can givuse paralysis. Regardless, there are plenty of ways to bring him to his knees. By placing Stealth Rocks on the fieThundurus-T quickly build, Thundurus-T will quickly build up residual damage from Life Orb recoil and switching out with Volt Switch or by its ownormal switches with Stealth Rock up.</p>
<p>Outside of this, there are two real ways of taking on Thundurus-T. The first way is using a Pokemon that can sponge his attacks and KO or cripple him in some way, as even with a Nasty Plot boost some Pokemon are able to avoid a OHKO from his attacks. Latias and Latios do not care about anything that he can do besides a boosted Hidden Power Ice and the rare U-Turn, and can proceed to set up Calm Minds or simply outspeed and KO with Draco Meteor. Bulky Arceus formes resistant or immune to Thunder also have no trouble in taking on Thundurus-T assuming they resist or, are immune to Thunder. Like the Lati twins, they too are often able to outspeed and OHKO Thundurus-Thim. Arceus-Ground in particular can stop him from scouting with Volt Switch and is outright immune to Thunder, but must watch out for Grass Knot. Blissey and Chansey laugh at his attempts at dealing damage, although they cannot do much in return. Other bulky Ground types like Groudon and Excadrill can negate his Volt Switch, but they both have to watch out for Grass Knot and Focus Blast respectively. Bulky Dragons in general are decent checks, such as Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem formes, and Dialga, are decent checks, though Kyurem-W and Dialga both need to be wary of Focus Blast and Zekrom needs to watch out for Hidden Power Ice.</p>
<p>The second method of defeating Thundurus-T is simply revenge killing him. This is actually rather simple as his speed tier, while good, leaves a lot to be desired. The aforementioned Latios, Latias and Arceus can outspeed, as well as Thundurus-I, Tornadus-T, Darkrai, Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, and every relevant Choice Scarf user in Ubers, etc. Thundurus-T is also frail enough to be picked off with priority. Unboosted Extremespeed from Extreme Killer Arceus is already a 2HKO cand Thundurus-T fails to OHKO in return. The simple fact that Thundurus-T is really frail means that any somewhat powerful attack that lands a hit will either seriously cripple or KO him.</p>


Comments: The most noticeable of all what? traits? Stats? Qualities? (Overview).
Having the strongest thunder isn't really a feat so much as it is an ability.
You can't power through a counter or it wouldn't be a counter. It's a check, because anything trying to counter a thundy-T needs to be able to tank a +2 hit and KO back. If it couldn't, then it wouldn't even be able to take 2 consecutive hits, which would make it a terrible counter.
Why would GK seem like an odd choice? It's ubers so shit is heavy and SE coverage against ground is always helpful. The only relevant target it doesn't usually hit is Manaphy and Thunder takes care of that easily anyhow.
Revenge killed "Etc". Yeah.... no. everything that can revenge him should be here.
 

GatoDelFuego

Pinochet used Sky Drop!
is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
GP Co-Leader
#31
REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

[Overview]

<p>While often finding itself in the shadow of its already uncommon Incarnate forme, Thundurus-Therian is by no means something to take lightly, even in the Ubers tier. Easily the most noticeable of all is his its incredible Special Attack stat, which gives him Him? It? Please chose right now and stick with it; I don't want to have to change all of them and have you want something different. Looks like you're most likely "him", though, so make sure any "it"s get changed the single most powerful Thunder in the game excluding the more or less irrelevant Analytic Magnezone, a feat that is not to be underestimated as Thunder is a very potent move in the Ubers tier. His speed stat of 101 isn't apostrophe bad either, allowing him to outspeed the plethora of Base 90s and 95s. The ability Volt Absorb and his Ground immunity give him plenty of opportunities to switch in and wreak havoc. Access to two great setup moves, Nasty Plot and Agility, only further prove how threatening he can become.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, several shortcomings hold Thundurus-T back from becoming a top-tier threat. The biggest problem isn't exactly a flaw Thundurus-T himself has, but rather of the existence of Thundurus-I, who which gives Thundurus-T huge competition, (RC) thanks to a better Speed tier and the amazing ability Prankster, at the cost of some Special Attack. Zekrom also provides competition, due to having a Dragon typing, more mixed offenses, and much better bulk. Speaking of bulk, Thundurus-T has a major lack of it, meaning any decently powerful attack is likely to KO him, as well as an undesirable Stealth Rock weakness. Despite getting nearly perfect coverage with Focus Blast and Hidden Power Ice alongside Thunder, Focus Blast is rather inaccurate and Hidden Power Ice is a very weak move in the Ubers tier, so he can be walled relatively easily. Finally, Thundurus-T's speed, while decent, isn't quite good enough to outspeed threats like such as Arceus, Latias, Mewtwo, Darkrai, and the plethora of weather abusers and Choice Scarf users, so it will often find itself getting revenge killed without much trouble. Regardless, Thundurus-T access to one of the strongest Thunders in the game and two great immunities grant him a lease of life in Ubers. If you don't use him to his strengths, however, you'll find there are other Pokemon more suited for your team.</p>

[SET]
name: Life Orb Attacker
move 1: Thunder
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Volt Switch / Nasty Plot
move 4: Grass Knot / Hidden Power Ice
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
ivs: 30 Atk / 30 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>If you intend to use Thundurus-T in Ubers, this is by far the best set to use. Between having a good speed tier, a high Special Attack stat, and not really minding taking recoil considering how frail he already his, Thundurus-T makes a great Life Orb Attacker against the slower Base 90s and 95s existing in the tier. Thunder is simply non-negotiable for the choice of STAB move. Considering how prevalent Rain is, which gives it perfect accuracy, as well as its how high base power and chance of paralysis, the fact that Thundurus-T gets one of the strongest Thunder in the game only makes it all the more appealing. Although Focus Blast has very shaky accuracy, it is absolutely necessary in order to solve some of Thundurus-T's issues against Pokemon such as Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, (AC) and the Kyurem formes.</p>

<p>The third slot is where it starts to get tricky. Volt Switch is usually the preferred option, as it allows Thundurus-T to scout switch-ins which it won't be able to fight normally while still dealing a sizable amount of damage and then getting in a counter. Nasty Plot is a more direct approach to dealing with counters by allowing you to boost your offenses while your opponent switches in a counter, (AC) and giving the strength you need to power through said would-be counter. Do be aware that Nasty Plot should only be used if you need to break through walls; (SC) it should not be used to sweep. The final slot really depends on what you are running in the third slot. Grass Knot may seem like an odd choice but it allows you to OHKO Groudon and 2HKO Arceus-Ground, both of which can easily stop Thundurus-T from using Volt Switch. The lack of coverage against some Dragons and Arceus formes isn't really a deal breaker since as you can just use Volt Switch out of such threats, and Thundurus-T shouldn't be picking a fight with most of them in the first place. If you intend to use Nasty Plot, however, then Hidden Power Ice will give more overall coverage against some of the slower Dragons such as Giratina that would otherwise wall Thundurus-T, and after a boost it can do more damage to Groudon and Arceus-Ground than Grass Knot could unboosted.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are rather straightforward, dumping as much as possible into Special Attack and Speed. The remaining 4 EVs are put into Defense so that he can switch into Stealth Rock an extra time. The IVs are, of course, only used if you wish to use Hidden Power Ice. A Timid nature is essential to this set's success, as Thundurus-T needs every bit of Speed it can get. There are a few noteworthy alternatives for the above moves. First off there is U-Turn, which can replace Volt Switch if you are desperate for the ability to scout Ground type switch-ins. It also deals moderate damage to incoming Latias, Latios, and Mewtwo. However, the lack of overall power typically makes it inferior in comparison to Volt Switch. Agility is also an option that can be used over Nasty Plot. This mean Thundurus-T can do more than just punch holes into slower Ubers threats since as it now can clean late-game if it gets the chance to set up. However, finding this time to set up is perhaps the biggest flaw with this move. Unlike Nasty Plot Thundurus-T, Agility Thundurus-T is helpless if the switch-in is something that would normally wall him, such as like Giratina-A or Blissey. Attempting to use it late-game also tends to get you killed since because at this point typically all what's left on the foe's team are fast sweepers or cleaners who that can easily bring Thundurus-T down.</p>

<p>If there is one teammate that is absolutely necessary when using Thundurus-T, it's Kyogre. Not only does it provide the Rain support he needs to use Thunder with perfect accuracy, but it also can give Thundurus-T free switch-ins from the Electric attacks often aimed at it. Choice Kyogre can come in more easily through Volt Switch, with Choice Scarf Kyogre dealing with the faster threats that Thundurus-T cannot fight and Choice Specs Kyogre breaking through the walls to make his job easier. Thunder Wave Kyogre can also be of use by slowing down foes to make Thundurus-T not have to worry about being outsped as much. Arceus-Steel makes an interesting core with Kyogre and Thundurus-T as he double check your arceus gendering here resists Grass-, Ice-, and Rock-type moves, all of which are moves the other two are weak to, as well as common Dragon-type moves, which are extremely common and deadly in the tier. Arceus-Grass, on the other hand, can deal with Groudon and Arceus-Ground, two Pokemon Thundurus-T often has issues with if he doesn't land a Grass Knot, and also spread paralysis. Ferrothorn can also provide paralysis support and has the ability to lay entry hazards.</p>

<p>Thundurus-T has issues with bulky Dragons like such as Latias, Latios, and Giratina, as well as Blissey and Chansey. Strong physical sweepers such as Terrakion, Zekrom, and Rayquaza can use the momentum provided by Volt Switch to come in and take care of these Pokemon. As mentioned before, he also issues in his speed, so a fast cleaner or revenge killer will certainly be of use. Genesect in particular can get rid of Latias and Latios, two of Thundurus-T's greatest enemies. Wobbufett is also a teammate that can come in handy should a situation ever arise where Thundurus-T desperately needs to pull off a Nasty Plot boost. Finally, Thundurus-T has a glaring weakness to Stealth Rocks, so a spinner is always a welcome partner. Kabutops can spin and fight against Dialga, Arceus-Ground, and, to an extent, Ferrothorn, all of which are solid checks to Thundurus-T. He also attracts Electric moves due to his weakness that Thundurus-T can switch into. Forretress, another spinner, can tank a few physical hits while laying entry hazards and giving momentum with Volt Switch. Excadrill and Tentacruel are also good choices for spinners since as they have good synergy with the rain teams Thundurus-T is commonly part of.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Unfortunately, Thundurus-T has a relatively shallow movepool, but there are still some sets and moves that are usable options. Perhaps the next best idea after the Life Orb set would be a Choice Scarf set. By equipping him with a Choice Scarf, Thundurus-T gains a substantial amount of speed, enough to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame save for Deoxys-S. You can use Volt Switch early-game to rack up damage and scout, and then revenge kill or clean up late-game using Thundurus-T's great coverage. Unfortunately, being locking into Volt Switch an Electric attack is not really a good thing considering how incredibly common Groudon is, and Focus Blast and Hidden Power Ice aren't exactly good moves to be locked into either. Not to mention, (RC) he loses out on a substantial amount of power without Life Orb and will often find itself outclassed by other Choice Scarf users such as Palkia, and as such is not recommended. For similar reasons, a Choice Specs is also not recommended. An Expert Belt set is always an option but Choice Thundurus-T is rather uncommon so bluffing a Choice set is rather pointless. The lack of power from the Life Orb set and the lack of speed from the Choice Scarf set make it all the more useless.</p>

<p>A set utilizing Nasty Plot and Substitute is an option to attempt to become a stallbreaker. Unfortunately, Thundurus-T seriously lacks the bulk to pull off such a set, as almost every Pokemon is capable of breaking its sub or phazing it. This job is best left off to bulky SubCM users like such as Giratina-O. Even Thundurus-I can pull such a set off better thanks to its access to Prankster Substitutes. Thunderbolt can be used instead of Thunder if one doesn't have access to rain, but because Rain is so omnipresent in Ubers, plus the higher power and paralyzing rate, there really isn't much of a reason not to use Thunder over Thunderbolt. He also has a decent Attack stat. While its physical movepool is rather barren, it does get Superpower, which, with a Life Orb and without investment, has a good chance of 2HKOing Blissey and, after Stealth Rock, Chansey, (AC) and can OHKO Tyranitar. It also gets Crunch, which 2HKOes Latias and Latios after Stealth Rock given the same amount of investment and with Life Orb. Thundurus-T also has a few support options in Thunder Wave and Taunt, but this is best left to Thundurus-I, who has access to Prankster which gives it priority in using these same support moves.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Outright countering Thundurus-T is rather difficult. This is due to his because he is capable of simply scouting switch-ins with Volt Switch or U-Turn, getting extra power with Nasty Plot, and launching devastating Thunders that also can give paralysis. Regardless, there are plenty of ways to bring him to his knees. By placing Stealth Rocks on the field, Thundurus-T will quickly build up residual damage from Life Orb recoil and switching out with Volt Switch or by its own switches.</p>

<p>Outside of this, there are two real ways of taking on Thundurus-T. The first way is using a Pokemon that can sponge his attacks and KO or cripple him in some way, as even with a Nasty Plot boost some Pokemon are able to avoid an OHKO from his attacks. Latias and Latios do not care about anything that he can do besides a boosted Hidden Power Ice and the rare U-Turn, (RC) and can proceed to set up Calm Minds or simply outspeed and KO with Draco Meteor. Bulky Arceus formes also have no trouble in taking on Thundurus-T assuming they resist or are immune to Thunder. Like the Lati twins, they too are often able to outspeed and KO Thundurus-T. Arceus-Ground in particular can stop him from scouting with Volt Switch and is outright immune to Thunder, but must watch out for Grass Knot. Blissey and Chansey laugh at his attempts at dealing damage, although they cannot do much in return. Other bulky Ground-types such as like Groudon and Excadrill can negate his Volt Switch but they both have to watch out for Grass Knot and Focus Blast respectively. Bulky Dragon-types in general are decent checks, such as including Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem formes, and Dialga, though Kyurem-W and Dialga both need to be wary of Focus Blast and Zekrom needs to watch out for Hidden Power Ice.</p>

<p>The second method of defeating Thundurus-T is by simply revenge killing him. This is actually rather simple as his speed tier, while good, leaves a lot to be desired. The aforementioned Latios, Latias, (AC) and Arceus can outspeed as well as Thundurus-I, Tornadus-T, Darkrai, Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, and every relevant Choice Scarf user in Ubers, etc. Thundurus-T is also frail enough to be picked off with priority. Unboosted ExtremeSpeed from Extreme Killer Arceus is already a 2HKO can and Thundurus-T fails to OHKO in return. The simple fact that Thundurus-T is really frail means that any somewhat powerful attack that lands a hit will either seriously cripple or KO him.</p>


Make sure you double check all the genders here. It's fine to use both "he" and "it", but make sure it's consistent for each pokemon

[gp]1/2[/gp]
 

Mr. Uncompetitive

That Power is yet Unknown...
is a Pre-Contributor
#32
The GP checks are being implemented right now. Editing post when done.

Oh and for consistency sake I'll replace any use of "it" with "him" (when referring to Thundy) as Thundurus-T is male after all and "it" for everything else
 

Mr. Uncompetitive

That Power is yet Unknown...
is a Pre-Contributor
#33
Double posting so Furai notices that I actually implemented the check

I didn't like a lot of tehy's changes, I mainly used Gato's GP check. However, I did address his comments about Grass Knot and the Overview. I also intend to look into the checks/counter thing when I get more time if there is still some confusion about it
 
#34
Deletions
Additions / Corrections
Comments


[Overview]

<p>While often finding himself in the shadow of his already uncommon Incarnate forme, Thundurus-T is by no means something to take lightly, even in the Ubers tier. Easily the most noticeable of all his traits is his incredible Special Attack stat, which gives him the single most powerful Thunder in the game excluding the more-or-less irrelevant Analytic Magnezone, a feat that is not to be underestimated as Thunder is a very potent move in the Ubers tier. His speed stat of 101 isn't (no curly apostrophes) bad either, allowing him to outspeed the plethora of base 90s and 95s. Volt Absorb and his Ground immunity give him plenty of opportunities to switch in and wreak havoc. Access to two great setup moves, Nasty Plot and Agility, only further prove how threatening he can become.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, several shortcomings hold Thundurus-T back from becoming a top-tier threat. The biggest problem isn't (no curly apostrophes) exactly a flaw Thundurus-T himself has, but rather of the existence of Thundurus (you don't hyphenate the original forme names), which gives Thundurus-T huge competition thanks to a the former's better Speed tier and the access to an amazing ability in Prankster, albeit at the cost of some Special Attack. Zekrom also provides competition, due to having a Dragon typing, more mixed offenses, and much better bulk. Speaking of bulk, Thundurus-T has a major lack of it, meaning any decently powerful attack is likely to KO him, as well as an undesirable Stealth Rock weakness. Despite getting nearly perfect coverage with Focus Blast and Hidden Power Ice alongside Thunder, Focus Blast is rather inaccurate and Hidden Power Ice is a very weak move in the Ubers tier, so he can be walled relatively easily. Finally, Thundurus-T's speed, while decent, isn't quite good enough to outspeed threats such as Arceus, Latias, Mewtwo, and Darkrai, and as well as the plethora of weather abusers and Choice Scarf users, so he will often find himself getting revenge killed without much trouble. Regardless, Thundurus-T access to one of the strongest Thunders in the game and two great immunities grant him a lease of life in Ubers. If you don't use him to his strengths, however, you'll find there are other Pokemon more suited for your team.</p>

[SET]
name: Life Orb Attacker
move 1: Thunder
move 2: Focus Blast
move 3: Volt Switch / Nasty Plot
move 4: Grass Knot / Hidden Power Ice
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
ivs: 30 Atk / 30 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>If you intend to use Thundurus-T in Ubers, this is by far the best set to use. Between having a good Speed tier, a high Special Attack stat, and not really minding taking recoil considering how frail he already is, Thundurus-T makes a great Life Orb attacker. Thunder is simply non-negotiable for the choice of STAB move. Considering how prevalent rain is, which gives it perfect accuracy, as well as its how high Base Power and chance of paralysis, the fact that Thundurus-T gets one of the strongest Thunder in the game only makes it all the more appealing. Although Focus Blast has very shaky accuracy, it is absolutely necessary in order to solve some of Thundurus-T's issues against Pokemon such as Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, and the Kyurem formes.</p>

<p>The third slot is where it starts to get tricky. Volt Switch is usually the preferred option, as it allows Thundurus-T to scout switch-ins which he won't be able to fight normally while still dealing a sizable amount of damage and then getting in a counter. Nasty Plot is a more direct approach to dealing with counters by allowing you Thundurus-T to boost your his offenses while your opponent switches in a counter, giving the strength you he needs ("you" refers to the user, not the Pokemon) to power through said would-be counter. Do be aware that Nasty Plot should only be used if you need Thundurus-T to break through walls; it should not be used to sweep. The final slot really depends on what you are running in the third slot. Grass Knot may seem like an odd choice due to providing only a small amount of additional coverage, but it allows you Thundurus-T to OHKO Groudon and 2HKO Ground Arceus, both of which can easily stop Thundurus-T from using Volt Switch. The lack of coverage against some Dragons and Arceus formes isn't really a deal breaker as you Thundurus-T can just use Volt Switch out of such threats, and Thundurus-T he shouldn't be picking a fight with most of them in the first place. If you intend to use Nasty Plot, however, then Hidden Power Ice will give more better overall coverage against some of the slower Dragons such as Giratina that would otherwise wall Thundurus-T, and after a boost he can do more damage to Groudon and Ground Arceus than with an unboosted Grass Knot could unboosted.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are rather straightforward, dumping as much as possible into Special Attack and Speed. The remaining 4 EVs are put into Defense so that he can switch into Stealth Rock an extra time. The mentioned IVs are, of course, only used if you wish to use Hidden Power Ice. A Timid nature is essential to this set's success, as Thundurus-T needs every bit of Speed he can get. There are a few noteworthy alternatives for the above moves. First off is U-turn, which can replace Volt Switch if you are desperate for the ability to scout Ground type switch-ins. It also deals moderate damage to incoming Latias, Latios, and Mewtwo. However, the lack of overall power typically makes it inferior in comparison. Agility is also an option that can be used over Nasty Plot. This means Thundurus-T can do more than just punch holes into slower Ubers threats, (comma) since he now can now clean up late-game if he gets the chance to set up. However, finding the time to set up is perhaps the biggest flaw with this move. Unlike Nasty Plot Thundurus-T, Agility Thundurus-T is helpless if the switch-in is something that would normally wall him, (comma) like Giratina-A or Blissey. Attempting to use it late-game also tends to get you Thundurus-T killed because at this point typically all what's left on the foe's team are fast sweepers or cleaners that can easily bring Thundurus-T down.</p>

<p>If there is one teammate that is absolutely necessary when using Thundurus-T, it's Kyogre. Not only does it he (since you use "he" to refer to Pokemon in this article, use "he" or "she" to refer to any other Pokemon for consistency. I leave this choice up to you) provide the rain support he Thundurus-T needs to use Thunder with perfect accuracy, but it he also can give Thundurus-T free switch-ins from on the Electric attacks often aimed at him. Choice Kyogre can come in more easily through Volt Switch, with Choice Scarf Kyogre dealing with the faster threats that Thundurus-T cannot fight and Choice Specs Kyogre breaking through the walls to make his job easier. Thunder Wave Kyogre can also be of use by slowing down foes to make ensure that Thundurus-T not have to need not worry about being outsped as much. Steel Arceus makes an interesting core with Kyogre and Thundurus-T as he resists Grass-, Ice-, and Rock-type moves, all of which the other two are weak to, as well as common Dragon-type moves. Grass Arceus, on the other hand, can deal with Groudon and Ground Arceus, two Pokemon Thundurus-T often has issues with if he doesn't land a Grass Knot, and spread paralysis. Ferrothorn can also provide paralysis support and has the ability to lay entry hazards.</p>

<p>Thundurus-T has issues with bulky Dragons such as Latias, Latios, and Giratina, as well as Blissey and Chansey. Strong physical sweepers such as Terrakion, Zekrom, and Rayquaza can use the momentum provided by Volt Switch to come in and take care of these Pokemon. As mentioned before, he also has issues in with his Speed, so a fast cleaner or revenge killer will certainly be of use. Genesect in particular can get rid of Latias and Latios, two of Thundurus-T's greatest enemies. Wobbufett is also a teammate that can come in handy should a situation ever arise where Thundurus-T desperately needs to pull off a Nasty Plot boost. Finally, Thundurus-T has a glaring weakness to Stealth Rock, so a spinner is always a welcome partner. Kabutops can spin and fight against deal with Dialga, Ground Arceus, and, to an extent, Ferrothorn, all of which are solid checks to Thundurus-T. He also attracts Electric moves due to his weakness that Thundurus-T can switch into. Forretress, another spinner, can tank a few physical hits while laying entry hazards and giving momentum with Volt Switch. Excadrill and Tentacruel are also good choices for spinners as they have good synergy with the rain teams Thundurus-T is commonly part of.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Unfortunately, Thundurus-T has a relatively shallow movepool, but there are still some other usable options. Perhaps the next best idea after the Life Orb set would be a Choice Scarf set. By equipping him with a Choice Scarf, Thundurus-T gains a substantial amount of Speed, enough to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame save for Deoxys-S. You He can use Volt Switch early-game to rack up damage and scout, and then revenge kill or clean up late-game using Thundurus-T's great coverage. Unfortunately, being locked into Volt Switch is not really a good thing considering how incredibly common Groudon is, and Focus Blast and Hidden Power Ice aren't exactly good moves to be locked into either, not to mention he loses out on a substantial amount of power without Life Orb and will often find himself outclassed by other Choice Scarf users such as Palkia, and as such is not recommended. For similar reasons, a Choice Specs set is also not recommended. An Expert Belt set is always an option but Choice Thundurus-T is rather uncommon, so bluffing a Choice set is rather pointless. The lack of power from the Life Orb set and the lack of Speed from the Choice Scarf set make it all the more useless.</p>

<p>A wallbreaker set utilizing Nasty Plot and Substitute is also an option to attempt to become a wallbreaker. Unfortunately, Thundurus-T seriously lacks the bulk to pull off such a set, as almost every Pokemon is capable of breaking his Substitute or phazing him. This job is best left off to bulky SubCM users such as Giratina-O. Even Thundurus can pull such a set off better thanks to his access to Prankster Substitutes. Thunderbolt can be used instead of Thunder if one doesn't have access to rain, but because rain is so omnipresent in Ubers, plus the higher power and paralyzing rate paralysis chance, there really isn't much of a reason not to use Thunder over Thunderbolt. He also has a decent Attack stat, and while his physical movepool is rather barren, he does get Superpower, which, with a Life Orb and without investment, has a good chance of 2HKOing Blissey and (after Stealth Rock) (replace commas with brackets) Chansey, and can OHKO Tyranitar. He also gets Crunch, which 2HKOes Latias and Latios after Stealth Rock given the same amount of investment and with Life Orb. Thundurus-T also has a few support options in Thunder Wave and Taunt, but this is best left to Thundurus, who has access to Prankster which gives him priority in using these same support moves.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Outright countering Thundurus-T is rather difficult. This is because he is capable of simply scouting switch-ins with Volt Switch or U-turn, getting extra power boosting with Nasty Plot, and launching devastating Thunders that also can give paralysis paralyze. Regardless, there are plenty of ways to bring him to his knees. By placing Stealth Rock on the field, Thundurus-T will quickly build up residual damage from Life Orb recoil and switching out with Volt Switch or by his own switches otherwise.</p>

<p>Outside of this, there are two real ways of taking on Thundurus-T. The first way is using a Pokemon that can sponge his attacks and KO or cripple him in some way, as even with a Nasty Plot boost some Pokemon are able to avoid an OHKO from his attacks. Latias and Latios do not care about anything that he can do besides a boosted Hidden Power Ice and the rare U-turn and can proceed to set up Calm Mind or simply outspeed and KO with Draco Meteor. Bulky Arceus formes also have no trouble in taking on Thundurus-T assuming they resist or are immune to Thunder. Like the Lati twins, they too are often able to outspeed and KO Thundurus-T. Ground Arceus in particular can stop him from scouting with Volt Switch and is outright immune to Thunder, but must watch out for Grass Knot. Blissey and Chansey laugh at his attempts at dealing damage, although they cannot do much in return. Other bulky Ground-types such as Groudon and Excadrill can negate his Volt Switch, but both have to watch out for Grass Knot and Focus Blast, respectively. Bulky Dragon-types in general are decent checks, including Reshiram, Zekrom, the Kyurem formes, and Dialga, though Kyurem-W and Dialga both need to be wary of Focus Blast and Zekrom needs to watch out for Hidden Power Ice.</p>

<p>The second method of defeating Thundurus-T is by Altenratively, Thundurus-T can be taken out simply revenge killing him. This is actually rather simple as his Speed tier, while good, leaves a lot to be desired. The aforementioned Latios, Latias, and Arceus, can outspeed as well as Thundurus, Garchomp, Darkrai, Mewtwo, Deoxys-A, and every relevant Choice Scarf user in Ubers. Thundurus-T is also frail enough to be picked off with priority. Unboosted ExtremeSpeed from Extreme Killer Arceus is already a 2HKO, and Thundurus-T fails to OHKO in return. The simple fact that Thundurus-T is really frail means that any somewhat moderately powerful attack that lands a hit will either seriously cripple or KO him.</p>


All on-site analyses use <typing> Arceus when referring to an Arceus forme within the analysis, so I changed those to reflect the same in your analysis. Most errors were just grammar conventions; going through the Spelling and Grammar Standards thread will help. Otherwise,



GP 2 / 2