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Tier Shift Metagame (THIS IS BW)

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by PureQuestion, Feb 17, 2013.

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  1. Captain

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    I just realized Manectric gets 115 base special attack and speed. Imagine abusing Lightningrod with that.
  2. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    This reminds me of a question: is Tier Shift getting usage stats at the end of the month? It would be nice to know how it affects the metagame.
  3. JoshuaMunoz

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    Im pretty happy that this is OM of the month, this is my favorite "other metagame" tier! Tauros is also stupidly powerful and fast with its 115 Base Attack and 125 Base Speed. Jynx in rain is good as well!
  4. WaterBomb

    WaterBomb because exploding camels wasn't enough
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    I think usage stats would be a fantastic idea for this meta if it's possible. I don't think we'll even come CLOSE to having an idea of which pokemon are the most dominant after a mere month. I think it will take a few months at least for the meta to take shape and the most dominant pokes to be confirmed. Right now everyone is just wildly testing everything because there are so many options. I can't wait for more of those hidden gems to be discovered!

    PS - DD Whiscash is no joke, yo. Especially in the rain with Hydration.
  5. Joim

    Joim Navigate the pitfalls, cross the great divide!
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    Every ladderable OM gets usar stats iirc. Seasonal gets it, for more info ask Antar.
  6. Hollywood

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    I am so excited to play this on a ladder on main. Just being on main makes it so much more readily available. I think Other Metagame of the Month is so cool, and I hope that it lasts. On that same note, if the ladder gets enough battles, is it possible to keep the ladder up? I know that I, personally, have played upwards of 20 battles in this tier in the last couple days. Others have certainly played a lot more! Anyways, just in these three/four days that the ladder has been up, a lot of people have expressed that they don't want this ladder to go away.

    Also, another user and I made a really fun Sun team with such monsters as Specs Exeggutor and Sub CM Cresselia. Basically our whole idea was Cresselia is a monster that should be abused with those sexy stat boosts in its bulk. Sun boosts its recovery move, giving it seemingly endless longevity. Exeggutor, on the other hand, has immediate power with Choice Specs and 140 base SpA. With a tier boosted Speed and Chlorophyll, it hits so hard without taking any time to set up.

    Ludicolo in the rain also never dies, by the way. A sub seed set in the rain with Rain Dish is so annoying to face (AND SO FUN TO USE).
  7. WaterBomb

    WaterBomb because exploding camels wasn't enough
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    If this meta sticks, I think it might be good to begin putting together a viability thread to help newer players jump in without too much experimentation. Obviously we'll have to wait until more solid usage stats are available, but as this thing develops we, as players, should be taking close notes on the effectiveness (and ineffectiveness) of certain pokemon, their synergy with others, and their counters. This way we'll have plenty of data down the road if it becomes viable enough to do official analyses for.

    So, for everyone, just pay close attention to how your pokemon are performing, their challenges, and their strengths.
  8. Chaoswalker

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    I wonder... the NU tier is just sort of a dumping ground much like an anti ubers, yes?
    Quote from NU viability ranking:
    The mons in the NU C tier are bad enough, and anything below that seems to be largely unsatisfied with the mere +15 boost.

    I understand this whole concept was based on simplicity, but that simplicity is leaving out a lot of NU and Ubers mons. Of course not every pokemon can be made viable with all the stat shifts, at least not without giving Farfetch'd ridiculous stats and we don't want to mess with movesets and the like... but this blanket approach may not have covered as many things at intended.
  9. Aasgier

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    If you give all NU C-rank Pokés +20, D-rank +25 and E-rank +30, I think a few quite OP Pokémon would arise, like Pikachu (which just goes to NUKE something into obblivion). Leavanny would become quite dangerous as well as it is underranked (could be C-rank before recent tier shifts).
    And would you really want to face a Pikachu with an equalivent to 210 Base Atk and 200 SAtk (dem nuke)? Or Slaking?

    Castform would still be mediocre even with Base 100 across the board, so would Glalie with Base 105. Ledian is also a nice example; It has a nice movepool but absolutely no stat distribution to go with that movepool.
    It needs a raw Atk boost more than anything else, basically, which frankly sucks.

    Looking at it, I think keeping it as it is - simple - will keep it functioning properly. It is a part of the charm that it are just simple stat boosts, and many things really got better from it.

    Yes, a few mons will still be unviable because they are simply too atrocious, but we have Joimmons to deal with that once it is done.
  10. pubby

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    Slaking would have a BST of 850, and be capable of 1-hit-KOing every Pokemon which doesn't resist Giga Impact. At +30 things just become broken.
  11. Aasgier

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    Didn't I just say that?

    As I said at the end of my post, we have Joimmons to deal with crapmons, and as such, we have no need to further buff the weakest of the NU Pokémon here as well, as it would take away the simplicity of this 'meta'.
  12. Sheeno

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    I've been playing this ladder quite a lot, and I'm in love with it. I definitely don't think any of the buffs need changing, as these "ranks" are not absolute and giving anything +20 or more would throw the metagame too far out of whack, I reckon.

    Regardless, here are some Pokémon I've loved playing with:

    Guts Swellow, with 140 base speed and the old STAB 140 BP Facade coming off of 100 base attack is an extraordinary physical sweeper that can decimate entire teams once any Rock/Steel types are disposed of. Even when they're not, you can always U-turn out of them.

    On the more defensive side of things, Lickilicky is bulk incarnate. 120/110/110 defences with Wish, Heal Bell and Dragon Tail make him a fantastic cleric and phazer. Nice 100/90 attacking stats, too, and access to SD.

    My Sandstorm team is doing extremely well - Eviolite Hippopotas is a great mixed wall, better than Hippowdon from my experience; Golurk has nice bulk and hits like a tank (I use SubPunch personally, always seems to catch them off guard); and Seismitoad is extremely versatile, with a 120/100/90/100/90/89 spread and a fantastic typing and resistance in Water Absorb. The centrepiece of the team, however, is Regirock. 95/215/115 defences with that special defence increased by 1.5x because of Sandstorm. 115 attack. Put heavy investment into HP and SpDef and no-one can take him down easily. I've swept whole teams with Curse/RestTalk/Rock Slide once I've taken care of any phazers/taunters, even though many regard it a tactic that is a vestige of a bygone era.

    As mentioned before, Manectric is indeed an extremely useful sweeper/scout.

    After a Hone Claws, Hustle Durant is pretty deadly too.

    Oh, and I've come up against WaterBomb's DD Whiscash... in the rain, that thing destroyed me. 6-0. I've fought them outside of rain and found them manageable, but one miscalculation in the wet conditions and I was gone.

    Man, I'll be sad when Tier Shift is gone. :( I don't think I'd play anything else if it were a permanent OM.
  13. Zarel

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    One thing I'm considering is +20 to PU mons, but otherwise I don't want to bring Uber mons into the tier, nor do I want to give any other boosts to NFE, LC, or NU mons with a low NU viability ranking.

    Please discuss what you think about +20 to PU mons.

    In other news, yes, Shedinja currently gets around 200ish HP at level 100. This basically means it can survive residual damage and it gets OHKOed by nearly all super-effective moves.

    I'm aware that this is different from how the game works, but the thing is that Tier Shift is a game mod, and it can change how the game works, and I've decided it's more fun if Tier Shift boosts Shedinja's HP, too. I might change this back if Shedinja turns out to be overpowered, but it doesn't currently appear to be.

    P.S. I currently plan to make Tier Shift a permanent OM ladder once its time as OM of the Month ends.
  14. Chaoswalker

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    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3467083
    I now know what PU is.

    That list definitely contains the top "May I have another?" Pokemon. Corsola? Mawile? Chimecho? They aren't doing so hot.
    EDIT: I am a little worried about Sawsbuck though. With 120 Atk, swords dance, and chlorophyll, it sounds a little like the case of Excadrill.
  15. youngjake93

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    I think Pikachu, Zweilous and Clamperl would appreciate more ridiculous power with a PU boost. All of which hit harder than deo-a and have better bulk.
  16. PureQuestion

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    Alright so, the thing about PU that concerns me is actually just that it contains a handful of pokemon that are actually quite frightening in tier shift already, especially certain weather abusers. Stoutland, Glaceon, Victreebel, Rotom-F? These are scary pokemon, especially Stoutland and Victreebel.

    Aside from that, since Zarel mentioned it, kinda, and since it's an opinion I've expressed a number of times, regarding the matter of Ubers.

    I would rather see the creation of a Tier Shift Ubers tier that boosts everything else upwards, than see the introduction of Ubers with stat drops into the standard tier.

    I think that option would be a lot more fun than just introducing even a nerfed Kyogre into the environment.
  17. Sheeno

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    In theory, I think +20 to the "NU of NU" is a great idea, BUT in practice, at the moment, there would be too many issues. When something moves up or down between Uber-OU-UU-RU-NU, it is a big deal for the affected metagames and it is arbitrated by the Smogon community. Because PU is not laddered or followed, the fluctuations in and out of it are more whimsical. As such, until PU is its own laddered tier that the community properly monitors - which as I understand isn't going to be anytime soon - I reckon boosting its Pokémon further would do more harm than good. The only workaround I see is to alter the cutoff for PU, which would minimize the chances of overpowering certain Pokémon.

    And that is the best news ever. :-D Thank you!


    Oh, and I'm also for the creation of Tier Shift Ubers; PLEASE keep Ubers out of "standard" Tier Shift play, though.
  18. Subject 18

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    With a +20 boost Pikachu then has reaches 524 SpA with Light Ball, which would make the NP set unbelievably strong and 1048 after a single Nasty Plot with a boosting SpA nature. For comparison Modest Thundurus-T reaches 1067 SpA at +3.

    I don't know how this would play in actuality but on paper it sounds godly strong.
  19. Meru

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    It's sad how much people forget about the basics. A lot of pokemon aren't below OU just because their stats are bad. Currently 14-1 with my normal OU team. And my only loss is from misusing the damage calc with these new stats abound.
  20. oSeasons

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    exactly.. my tiershift team is doing well but I feel that my regular OU team would do better lols
  21. Chaoswalker

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    I don't think it works in the opposite direction. Ubers is a dumping ground, and correct me if I'm wrong (I don't play Ubers) but that means the contents are less balanced than most tiers. If pokemon are scaled to match the likes of the lower mons of Ubers, they'll still get unfair opposition from the top threats. If they are scaled the toughest mons in the tier, the ones at the bottom will get trounced. Perhaps I'm the only one who cares if the a few mons are not so great though.

    My other concern with pushing up other tiers to match ubers is that the more boosts that are given, the more rounded a pokemon becomes. This isn't necessarily wrong, but rather it's just a bit odd. What was once just a fast physical attacker could end up carrying a bunch of bulk, as well as a strong special attack stat to pull from making it a mixed tank. Again, that doesn't ruin the game, but it starts leaning more pokemon toward balanced stats.
  22. PureQuestion

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    There are plenty of OU mons already viable in Ubers; any metagame with all the ubers included is going to be a centralized metagame, just as Ubers always is. That's why I wouldn't want them in the main tier. Tier Shift ubers would just be ubers with more interesting side options.
  23. NfskMjmMal

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    I like the idea of giving +20 to PU mons. NU is a massive tier and if a new official tier were to be made, PU would be next.
  24. Organization Member XIV

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    nah, Ubers can stay out. Like PQ said, introducing Ubers would just make Tier Shift Ubers with some side options, not really Tier Shift.
  25. Yarnus of Bethany

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    Hustle Durant is simply amazing. I've never failed to get less than 2 KOs with it.
    Latios is amazing as always, though Latias seems overshadowed by Cress, who is just insanely bulky.
    Meloetta is really specially bulky, but its movepool is a sweeper's one, so it's not that good.
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