Ladder Tier Shift ORAS [Swift Swim Unbanned; Check Post #95 for some info]

[Peef Rimgar]

Approved by The Immortal and Eevee General

Art by imas

Tier Shift
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Tier Shift is a metagame which edits one key feature of Pokemon in order to create an entire new metagame: statistics. Using Smogon's standard tier list, Pokemon get a boost which is dependent on tier.

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Rules:

Mechanic: Pokemon get a boost to their stats based on their Smogon tier. UU/BL2 receive +5, RU/BL3 receive +10, NU/BL4receive +15, and PU/NFE/LC/LC Uber get +20.
Clauses: Standard OU Clauses
Bans: Standard OU Banlist
Unbans: None, do not suggest any as this meta will follow the OU banlist


Strategy:

UU Threats

Potential UU Threats

Feraligatr is already a decently viable Physical Sweeper in OU, with the Tier Shift boosts it's only more potent!

OTR Reuniclus is a gigantic threat to any Offensive team

Haxorus was always plagued by an awkward speed tier. Not anymore!

RU Threats

Potential RU Threats

Alomomola has managed to become even more absurdly bulky here, with +10 to every stat.

Magneton finds itself superior to its fully evolved counterpart Magnezone, losing only a touch of bulk for quite a bit of Speed.

Virizion finds itself a scary sweeper from either attack spectrum. It's fast 118 speed tier makes this possible!

NU Threats

Potential NU Threats

Gastrodon, which is a new addition to NU, gains an insane +15 to every stat. This thing becomes very difficult to break.

Combusken actually becomes passable powerful with +15 to its attacks. Hell, give it Eviolite and let it be a Speed passer!

Incredibly fast, powerful and bulky, despite being plagued by a horribly typing Scyther finds itself on quite a few Voltturn teams

PU Threats

Potential PU Threats

Stoutland finds itself a decent enough Sand sweeper/cleaner

Gogoat finds itself fairly niche in OU. With +20 to every stat, Gogoat can be a very convincing Bulk Up sweeper!

Electabuzz is, by general consensus, the most reliable fast electric in Tier Shift.

Q&A:

Q: Does Shedinja get a boost to HP?
A: No. Turns out, Shedinja is hard-coded to have 1 HP

Q: What about BL mons?
A: They get the boost of the lowest tier they're allowed in. This is a good rule of thumb for TS in general. For example: Throh, which was banned from PU, get +15 as the lowest tier it can be used in is NU

Q: What of banned moves or abilities?
A: The same rule applies. Chatter is banned in PU, so Chatot with it will only recieve +15, whereas without it gets +20.

Resources:

Viability Rankings (Coming soon...)
Collaborative Teambuilder (PM me a link on Showdown any time and I'll build with you. Make sure you have an idea tho)

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Credit imas for the banner

Welcome to the newest installment of the Tier Shift Viability Ranking! In this thread we, the community, will attempt to rank every usable Pokemon into tiers. In this thread users can post their thoughts and opinions on the various TS usable Pokemon and which tier they should fall into.

Viability Council
Peef
LaxLapras
Kingslayer
jeran

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[Peef Rimgar]

Announcements:
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Change Log:

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12/11/2015-
Frogadier- B+
Honchkrow- B+
Tauros- A- -> B
Togekiss- B
Victini- B-

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Accidental 4th reservation ayye

 

[Funbot28]

Were this rankings made after the decision upon PU mons gaining +20 boosts?, if so , then I find it's a bit too early to determine their viability as this change was only released today

 

[Kingslayer2779]

ig il'll bring this here, since the convo is quiet and this thread needs posts anyways. What makes some of these mons so highly ranked? I didnt have direct control of a lot of these so im really just asking on a lot of them

mons im referring to

Tauros
Hariyama
Flareon
Kyurem

Flareon is absolutely exceptional on stall teams. Its primary role is walling Houndoom-Mega, who is so destructive that it 2hkos Chansey in Sun after Nasty Plot. Flareon can also switch into and force out Taunt users such as Gengar and Mismagius. Flareon has proven itself on multiple high level teams used by skilled users. Its offensive set is not recommended however.

Hariyama is one of the strongest and bulkiest Fighting types in the TS metagame. Thanks to Thick Fat and and its imposing 159/135/75/55/75/65 stat line, Hariyama can take and dish out massive punishment Hariyama's Assault Vest set in particular can absorb some huge hits. Here is a quick bulk comparison:
+2 252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 447-526 (69.6 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Solar Power Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Thick Fat Hariyama in Sun: 279-328 (60.7 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Tauros is a fast and strong hitter thanks to Sheer Force. It's speed is what gives it's edge i think, 125 is high even in TS. It also has decent Sheer Force boosted Coverage. Rock Climb is inaccurate but powerful, Zen Headbutt hits fighting types that think they can check, and Fire Blast is Fire Blast.

Kyurem has always been good to me personally, and its seen a decent amount of success in ladders and tours. Its very bulky, but has a average at best defensive typing. Its powerful, but its outclassed at Physical and Mixed by Kyu-B. I feel like its superior speed, bulk, and special attack carve out a role for it in TS, but i'm very open for this and any other Pokemon to be moved down.

still forgot me ks rofl

Your name is hard to tag for some reason

Were this rankings made after the decision upon PU mons gaining +20 boosts?, if so , then I find it's a bit too early to determine their viability as this change was only released today

No i was caught off guard by Pu becoming an official tier, and +20 boosts haven't been implemented yet. Any Pu mons are being judged on their merits with +15 boosts.

 

[LightningLord2]

It's amazing how all the buffs in the lower tiers didn't change the fact that the best Pokémon are still all OU.

 

[leng loi]

LightningLord2 It's not so amazing to consider that something with an amazing defensive typing, Dragon Dance, Tough Claws, and reliable STABs would be amazing. Nor is it preposterous to say that something with the best mono-typing in the game, Magic Guard, and Calm Mind would be influential. Even something with an exclusive mono-typing, Regenerator, and the ability to pivot into some of the best attackers in the game couldn't be good, right? My point is, the Pokemon in OU fit there roles almost perfectly. There really isn't anything that does what Zard-X, Clefable, and Tornadus-T do as well as them. There are amazing pokemon in the lower tiers that adapt perfectly adept roles in an OU environment, but the reality is that the majority of Pokemon that have potential for a role in OU are already in OU.

Also, in response to Cobalion. and Kingslayer2779 , I agree that a lot of these mons are waaaay too highly ranked. Adrian agreed with me earlier this week that Flareon deserves to be in the lower ranks (in my mind C or D) because while it is one of the only Pokemon that allows stall to reliably take on sun, it has no use outside of that. Tauros is just Tauros, there is no way I would use it over something like Mega Lopunny, Ambipom, Stoutland, or even Cincinno. I understand that it gets decent coverage, but it's best STAB is weak and unreliable (not to mention it's a Normal type to begin with) and it has nothing useful going for it (i.e. Fake Out on Lopunny and Ambipom, exceptional speed or attack, or amazing ability [Sheer Force is not amazing]) except for the gimmicky Endeavor, and it has no real place on any team, balanced or offensive. I mean what is it? Is it a wallbreaker? If it's supposed to be it's a pretty bad one. Hariyama should be about B or maybe B+, I wouldn't put it any higher. I can't really vouch for or against Kyurem, a scarf set seems really dangerous, and it has great power and STABs, but nothing really special over Starmie, Latios, or Hydreigon.

 

[thesecondbest]

why on earth is clef s and not its predecessor when clefairy has 5 less physical bulk 5 less special but the ability to hold eviolite? clefairy is waaaaay bulkier

 

[Deathly ♛The King]

thesecondbest
First of all, those stats are taking into account PU boosts, which aren't any different than NU boosts at the moment. Second of all, Clefairy doesn't have the amazing defensive ability of Unaware. Thirdly, without PU boosts, Clefairy has a pathetic base SpA of 75 as compared to Clefable's base 95, while it needs at least somewhat usable spA to pull off Clefable's Calm Mind + Magic Guard set. Also, Clefable isn't as hindered by switching in on Knock Off.

 

[LightningLord2]

You use Ambipom over Tauros? Tauros speed ties with Ambipom in TS, has more attack, way better abilities, more bulk and better attacking move options. The only thing Ambipom has going for it is Fake Out. Persian also has Technician Fake Out, outspeeds it and can run a mixed set (it does have less attack then Ambipom).

 

[leng loi]

Ambipom has utility which redeems the fact that it should be shit because its a normal type physical attacker, which Tauros and Persian can't say.

 

[Gerard]

What? Outside of the elemental punches Persian gets every important move that Ambipom does and then some. Fake Out, Knock Off, U-turn, Taunt, etc...

 

[LightningLord2]

What? Outside of the elemental punches Persian gets every important move that Ambipom does and then some. Fake Out, Knock Off, U-turn, Taunt, etc...

Ambipom also only get RU boosts compared to the other normals, meaning that it's playstyle is still to Fake Out on the first turn and then faint on the second.

 

[leng loi]

I never said that it was good. I said it was better than Tauros, who as no utility at all.

 

[Gerard]

Ambipom has utility which redeems the fact that it should be shit because its a normal type physical attacker, which Tauros and Persian can't say.

Honestly, why are we talking about Ambipom at all? it's only niche is a strong fake out, which MegaLopunny does better, if you want a fast user with priority and knock off then use Weavile, which has the same speed, better offensive typing, STAB Knock Off and Ice Shard, even with the boosts Weavile remains stronger and has the same speed. There is a reason that Normal Type attackers aren't common in OU and it's because the Normal Type sucks, it doesn't hit anything SE, all Normal Types in OU either don't use their STAB at all (Chansey) or have a better STAB to complement it (MegaLopunny).

 

[The Immortal]

This thread will now be used for both Tier Shift metagame discussion and for viability ranking.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Ursaring's going to be awesome with the new PU boosts. It can now outrun M-Lopunny after Quick Feet, and STAB Façade coming off a 150 base Attack is going to hurt like hell (and it still has Close Combat and Crunch for the Pokémon that resist Façade). Its bulk's pretty good too now: 110/95/95 defences give it similar bulk to the likes of Jirachi.

 

[Kingslayer2779]

FishInABox Tauros's role is as revenge killer. Rock Climb boosted by sheer force is 117 if my math holds up. Thats stronger then Fire Blast so i would hardly call it weak. Sure it doesn't hit anything SE, but it has only 2 resists and 1 immunity. Normal type isn't a great offensive typing but don't write Tauros off just cause its mono-normal. In regard to it compared to other similar Pokemon, Mega Lopunny is a mega, Tauros outdamages Stoutland and is quite a bit faster (even with PU boosts). Ambipom is totally outclassed statwise by Tauros, the only thing Ambipom brings to the table is Tech Fake Out with Knock off and Elemental Punches. Cinccino is similar in thats its revenge killer, but it can't touch steels so its not as difficult to switch into. And Tauros is one of the fastest non-Mega Pokemon currently in the A (quick glances says its second fastest). So thats something special imo. 115 boosted with Sheer Force isn't exactly weak either.

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Keldeo: 250-294 (77.3 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 274-324 (68.3 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 165-195 (51.4 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I could keep cherry picking calcs, but i think Tauros is viable because it can hit hard enough to make up for its bad typing, and it has a great speed tier. It also has usable bulk. It revenge kills a good chunk of A rank mons after a little wear n tear. But despite all that i'm def dropping it at the next update. Its not A- worthy.

Now i know PU tier Pokemon just got a huge buff with the new +20 boosts, but I'm asking that we hold off on Viability ranking nominations for any PU mons for the next few weeks. Let the metagame settle before trying to judge any of them. You can discuss them of course, but please don't nominate any for rankings.

 

[leng loi]

KS if you can beat anyone on the council barring DTK and BJ with a Tauros and explain to me why it works on that team, I will concede to B+. All of the examples you gave outclass Tauros in some way or another. RKers are also not a distinguished role imo. Dedicated RKers should have priority or scarf, but on offense most things can RK and on balance the RKers are just normal components in the team.

 

[leng loi]

Beats offense easily? How.

 

[Take Azelfie]

Does wobbuffet get any better? It does have more bulk now and with scarier things in the tier it seems like it would get a lot better.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

I was surprised to see Sawsbuck in A. I love that Pokémon, but why is it that high?

 

[Deathly ♛The King]

SlaySlenderDragon XD Talpr0ne no it does not. According to some new rules, Wobbuffet with Shadow Tag gets +0. With Telepathy it gets +20, but that kind of ruins the point of using Wobbuffet.

ChrystalFalchion Sawsbuck is an amazing Sun Sweeper that is capable of setting up and sweeping with ease. It is also fast enough that it can keep its sweep going outside of sun. (It is especially good with PU boosts which we haven't factored into these viability rankings yet due to the small amount of experience we all have with them)

and plz stop one liners ;;;

Also, we really need to start nominating things for the B ranks. The point of this is to have the community participate in rankings, rather than a much smaller group of people.
That said, I have some nominations that I'll post right now. I know my descriptions aren't very good but I have trouble describing them so...

Gothitelle -> B+
Gothitelle is a great, although much hated, Pokemon. It recently got unbanned from Tier Shift, although it doesn't get any boosts while it has the ability Shadow Tag. Having no boosts doesn't mean it is unviable, however, as it still easily preforms the same role as it does in OU: trapping and killing threats to your team. It easily dismantles stall teams. However, it does have flaws. It has rather bad stats, meaning it doesn't always have the power to kill things or the speed to work against offense teams, which forces it to run Choice Scarf or Choice Specs, locking it into a move. Gothitelle also has a bad typing, being weak to Knock Off defensively and its STAB having an immunity offensively.

Togekiss -> B+
Togekiss is another Pokemon that is great against stall. Its ability to boost its stats with Nasty Plot and to get through walls with Air Slash flinches makes it extremely annoying. Like Gothitelle, it doesn't preform anywhere near as well against offense, which often has a lot of Pokemon that outspeed and can kill Togekiss.

Victini -> B+
Victini is a great wallbreaker. It has access to the strongest move in the game, which is V-create. It also has great coverage in Bolt Strike, a pivoting move in U-turn, and pretty good bulk. However, despite its great all around stats and movepool, it has a weakness to Stealth Rock, is forced to run a choice item most of the time, and has to suffer from the drawbacks of V-create.

Honchkrow -> B+
Honchkrow is a great Pursuit trapper and sweeper. With Moxie, each time it gets a kill its attack gets boosted one stage. Pair this with Pursuit to prevent weakened Pokemon from switching out and Sucker Punch for faster Pokemon, and you have very good chances of boosting your attack and sweeping. A lot of teams that I've come across are unprepared for this, and it is quite simple to set up a sweep with it. However, it is very fragile and quite slow, leaving it easy to kill. In addition to that, you often have to play mindgames with your opponent with Pursuit and Sucker Punch, as otherwise they could get a free switch or Honchkrow could faint.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Thinking about some low(er) tier Pokémon

Rampardos: 185 base attack with shear force and mould breaker! Is also much faster now, and has bulk on par with Reuniclus.

Boufallant: 130 base attack and 115/115/115 defences make it the perfect tank

Magneton: Why would you use Magnezone when this is faster just as powerful and bulkier with eviolite?

Salamence: Now the fastest viable Dragon Dance user and 2nd strongest after Haxorus

MEGA Glalie: 130 base attack with 110 speed and refrigerate ow!