Tier Shift Viability Ranking

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Tsumugi Kotokobuki, Jul 9, 2013.

  1. Tsumugi Kotokobuki

    Tsumugi Kotokobuki

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    The reason Tangrowth was E was because it was felt at the time that Tangrowth, while not being a bad pokemon, was outclassed in both his Physically Defensive and Chlorophyll roles to the point where there was no real reason to use him on a team. While I still feel that Tangrowth is outclassed if you wanted a straight physical wall due to the far superior physical defense of Tangela after eviolite, I now see just how great Tangrowth is as a sun sweeper. I've never used or been on the receiving end of a Tangrowth (I've been playing Rain Balance for so long) so I guess I never noticed how good it was.

    Because of Tangrowth's use as a bulky sun sweeper that can counter many of the Sun teams common weaknesses that still has to rely on receiving sun support which can be difficult in a weather war Tangrowth is now B Rank.

    Blissey I agree with as well. She's better fit to handle sun and hail teams on a weatherless team, and can switch in on more threats than Chansey can due to being less weak to Knock Off and Trick. She also has usable special attack that can be used to threaten a few things Chansey can't. Because of this, Blissey is now C Rank.
  2. Mr Omgness

    Mr Omgness

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    1) Switch Rotom-W with Rotom-C. Scarf Rotom-C is one of the best Rain counters in tier shift and the stat boosts it got now make it a supreme option over Rotom-W. I just ranked #1 on the ladder with a weatherless team involving Rotom-C to counter Rain and I havent been let down by it. Rotom-W on the other hand; I've played 50ish more games in the past days and I still havent seen it on a team.

    2) Alomomola for S-Rank. Best physical wall in the game, WishPassing for dummies, Regenerator. I can go more in depth but anyone who plays this tier frequently will agree how good this thing is.
  3. Asterat

    Asterat

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    880
    slowking and tangrowth should be higher. Both are amazing and can wall almost every threat in the tier when combined. Throw in some hazards, a spinner, a win condition and some sweeper and your looking pretty good. Slowking in particular is ridiculous I would move both to a.
  4. BlankZero

    BlankZero

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,743
    Maybe you mean Slowbro?
  5. Mr Omgness

    Mr Omgness

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    Slowking is RU meaning it get +10, while Slowbro is UU and only gets +5, so Slowbro isnt the obvious choice anymore. Since he mentions him with Tangrowth it's probably Slowking he means since Slowking is SpD oriented.
  6. BlankZero

    BlankZero

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,743
    I was assuming Regenerator.
  7. Mr Omgness

    Mr Omgness

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    Slowking also gets Regenerator ;).
  8. BlankZero

    BlankZero

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,743
    I'm having a full day of dumb apparently.

    I also gave a mon an Everstone earlier and was getting mad when it wouldn't Evolve.
  9. Asterat

    Asterat

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2011
    Messages:
    880
    Honestly there is very reason to use slowbro nowadays. Slowking has 105/90/120 bulk while slowbro has 100/115/85. 105/90 is slightly better than gen 4 swampert while 105/120 is excellent and can sponge all sorts of stuff like starmie thunder without much investment. Slowbro has very good defense but so do lots of NUs and such while his special defense is pretty unimpressive. Also slowking has slightly higher special attack.
  10. Knight of Cydonia

    Knight of Cydonia

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2011
    Messages:
    213
    Raikou isn't on this list at all, I'd say it was worthy of B rank at least. Sub CM doesn't need much support- I basically only use Politoed to help it for an accurate Thunder and threatening bulky ground types that can take HP Ice. In return it can force out a lot of the tier (Politoed, Skarmory, Swanna to name but a few) for a free sub and starting dealing good damage with Base 120 SpA and Spe. It has a variety of other sets like Specs or the slower one with Aura Sphere for Ttar so you can't be sure what you are dealing with.
    I also think Ludicolo is better than C Rank, Sub Seed is very bulky specially and is a real bitch to take down in rain, it is faster than most status inducers with the right spread and it's sub will take Ice Beams and the like. I've also seen a Rain Dance Ludicolo decimate a standard sand team (Magneton trapped Ferro).
    Another missing pokemon is Ditto which is a real threat in this meta as it can turn the tables on a Chlorophyll or Sand Rush user after they kill something.

    As for pokemon that I think are ranked too highly at a glance, Steelix seems out of place in B rank. It is weak to too many types and will basically only get up Stealth Rock thanks to Sturdy, there are much better options available even with that huge defense stat.
    I'm also not sure about Landorus-T in A rank, I never see it and Skarmory is a much better option for dealing with things like Stoutland and Sawsbuck.
    Finally I noticed Gothorita in B rank which is high for something I've actually never seen and I don't know what it would do better than Gothitelle.

    Anyway nice job on putting this together, it should be a great tool for new players of this tier.
  11. Tsumugi Kotokobuki

    Tsumugi Kotokobuki

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    I really wish people would stop using the argument "I haven't seen Pokemon X so it should be in Tier Y rather than Tier Z." This is totally irrelevant to the thought process. A pokemon can be rare in a metagame and still be good, alternatively, a pokemon can be somewhat common, and you just have yet to play against a player using it.

    Anyways, onto individual pokemon movements.

    Rotom-Wash to B-Tier
    The only given argument was "I haven't seen one", so no, Rotom-Wash will stay in A-Tier.

    Rotom-C to A-Tier
    I actually agree with this. Rotom-C can pull off three separate sets that each function differently, is one of the predominate rain counters in Tier Shift, can threaten any bulky water, has access to the phenomenal trick allowing it to cripple many common switch-ins, and has the ability to easily pick up momentum with Volt Switch.

    Alomomola to S-Tier
    Eh... Almomola is threatened by most special based attackers in the tier. Despite stellar Cleric options Alomomola only functions on stall and balanced teams, and is a huge momentum burner anywhere else. She also faces competition with many other physical defenders in the tier for a team spot.

    Raikou to B-Tier
    I don't disagree with this at all.

    Ludicolo to C-Tier
    As a sub seeder Ludicolo faces competition with Parasect, and the Rain Dance Swim set needs a set-up turn that isn't interrupted by a weather inducer switching in, as well as team support to take down certain pokemon that wall him.
  12. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,132
    Gothorita is better than Gothitelle at breaking defensive walls with a Calm Mind + Rest set due to higher overall defenses with Eviolite. This set is actually quite brutal on the right team, and I've seen many people struggle to beat Gothorita once she has accumulated a sufficient number of Calm Mind boosts.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013
  13. Yarnus of Bethany

    Yarnus of Bethany

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,933
    I've worked a long time with Armaldo, and I think it desrves to go down to C-Rank. It's bad as a spinner because it's weak to stealth rock, iit's too slow to be an attacker or bander, and not powerful enough to fit into a swift swim team.

    Cresselia should most definately go up to A-rank: it can wall a very significant portion of the meta and needs very little support to do so. It even can fit very well on sun teams, the most common archetype.

    Add Beartic to D-Rank. I know it can be useful, but it's just not very good. Similar to Armaldo but even more so, it's weak to SR and is both not strong enough to break through the common non-grass-type walls and not fast enough to hold its own against an offensive team. When I saw it had swift swim, I hoped it could become good that way, but it disappointed me.

    Lastly, Tangrowth and Tangela should be on the same rank. While Tangela has better defense, its absolutely horrible offense stops it from keeping any momentum. Tangrowth can actually do something against an opposing Ferrothorn and can win against alomomolo, unlike Tangela which is dispatched by Ice Beam.
  14. Mr Omgness

    Mr Omgness

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    There was no initial argument to put Rotom-W in A rank to begin with anyway, but I guess you got a point.
  15. awsmminer3

    awsmminer3

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2013
    Messages:
    21
    Why on Earth is Cresselia not A rank or S rank? It's BL2, giving it spectacular bulk. I run a Physically Defensive EV spread with Calm Mind, Toxic, Psychic and Moonlight and it's consistently walled everything left after the rampages of my BellyZard. It has needed Drought support to maximize Moonlight's healing, but when Sun is up, I can wall out to 6-0 even with a burn. Unforunately, Toxic cuts about 1/3 off my capabilities.
  16. Mr Omgness

    Mr Omgness

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2011
    Messages:
    217
    Alomomola doesnt carry Ice Beam (atleast it's standard set doesn't), but Toxic is something Tangela and Tangrowth don't appreciate either so the match-up is a bit farfetched and both players will try to take switch advantage.

    I agree about Cresselia, it's a great defensive mon and I was actually shocked that it's BL2 and not BL.

    Armaldo sucks donkey balls indeed, it can probably pull of 1 rapid spin in a game and should therefore be used as an offensive spinner. All roles without Rapid Spin are just outclassed by Crustle.
  17. TheAzumaKiller

    TheAzumaKiller

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    6
    Actually, a gimmick set of cinccino in sun sweeps the entire s rank
  18. krobbi

    krobbi

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Drifblim has to be at least C or B rank,as a pokèmon with high HP and low defenses he becomes far bulkier even with a a fully offensive EV spread,surviving super effective non-stab attacks.His unburden set with acrobatics+flying gem,substitute,will-o-wisp and destiny bond is a really good counter against clorophill abusers,and offensive teams in general.his only flaw is the fact that he doesn't like to be forced to switch,so he can't be A,but Drifblim is a more than decent pokèmon,and he absolutely does not deserve E rank.

    I also claim alomomola for S-rank,'cause he can simply destroy unprepared teams in rain as a boosting tank with calm mind,scald,toxic and rest(with hydratation),he simply cannot be revenge killed if he sets up,and even if taunted-tricked after one or two boosts,his scalds can damage opponent's team and spread burn.
  19. Gerard

    Gerard

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2011
    Messages:
    4,036
    Where's Mandibuzz? Amazing bulk and a good Speed, she can take hits and roost the damage, it shuts down defensive teams thanks to Taunt & Toxic, and STAB Foul Play hits even harder than in OU thanks to the increased stats of all the things that would regularly switch into her, she deserves a rank B at the very least
  20. PokemonMasterDebater

    PokemonMasterDebater

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    183
    To add to this, Drifblim can also run good special sets with it's higher base 105 Sp Attack, thanks to it's great and unique abilities, access to Calm Mind, and decent special movepool, consisting of STAB Shadow Ball, Thunder(bolt), Weather Ball, and Hidden Power. Unburden is hands down it's best ability, and makes Drifblim a great late game cleaner, even making it capable of outspeeding most Chlorophyll/Sand Rush sweepers in their weather of choice. Unburden+Gem lets it go on the offensive with little setup, while ChestoRest Calm Mind lets it patch up it's Sp. Defense while boosting it's Sp. Attack and Speed to sky high levels. It does require Rapid Spin and Hazards support to be most effective, but it seems well worth it.
    I'd say that Drifblim deserves B rank.
  21. Ellipse

    Ellipse

    Joined:
    May 23, 2013
    Messages:
    26
    I'm surprised there has been no mention of Regirock. Not only does it become insanely physically bulky, but with sand support and investment it also becomes very specially bulky and can easily boost up to +6 Atk & Def with this sand support on a rest talk set, and hits hard enough to slowly sweep with rock slide at +6 with base 115, even without investment. It can also work as a defensive pivot in sand, providing sr and twave support. Therefore, I think he at least deserves C rank, even with Cradily (whom he can do most things just as well, some better, some worse), and possibly B rank (but I don't think that's likely).

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)