-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Tier Shift
- Thread starter eriados
- Start date
- Status
caracosta is an interesting option, but even with the speed boost, other, faster mons will STILL outspeed it. Not to mention it has that poor quad grass weakness. Personally i think it fits better on a trick room team as an abuser and Mon that can function outside of it with shell smash.
also, finnaggann, I like the idea of using mega amphaross as a bulky special attacker, considering how there are not as many special attackers as there are physical in this tier. Also, mega amphaross's slow speed allows it to fit fabulously onto a trick room team(pun intended).
lol the whole point is costa to take a super effective hit to set up since it will always live on sturdy and tbh a lot of stuff that will outspeed costa will not appreciate an a-jet and fyi i use it on a rain team making it even harder to handle
what I should say is- carracosta will get outsped by any scarfed/boosted base 100 after one shell smash. Also the mere presence if weezing limits what it can do as it can burn carra or simply use memento and nullify the boosts. And carracosta, while strong, is almost completely outclassed by omastar, who doesn't care about burns and has swift swim.
what I was trying to say was that weezing can take any hit carracosta can throw at it after a shell smash and reply in kind.
also, omastar effectively outclasses carracosta in almost every way except for defense(8 points) sp def(5 points) and sturdy. On a rain team omastar is better in virtually every way and isn't crippled by a burn. As a standalone sweeper I can see it being used but it is still getting outsped by any base 100 or more scarfer. That is not very good for a sweeper at all. This means it can be revenge killed by anything that does not care about an aqua jet can easily come in and stop the sweep.
Which is exactly why you use Carracosta over Omastar, Aqua Jet at +4 means you are not automatically revenged by any fast scarfer. (Since at +4 it's gonna hurt any scarfed mon that doesn't resist it) And again idk why Weezing was even brought to the discussion?
+4 252+ Atk Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 301-355 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Over 50% chance to be OHKOed after rocks, a little prior damage and it's gone, using the bulkiest set it can use, if you want to use something to stop Carracosta then Tangrowth / Tangela, Quagsire, Seismitoad
+4 252+ Atk Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 301-355 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Over 50% chance to be OHKOed after rocks, a little prior damage and it's gone, using the bulkiest set it can use, if you want to use something to stop Carracosta then Tangrowth / Tangela, Quagsire, Seismitoad
The reason I mentioned weezing was because it is one of the more common physical walls. Here is a more relevant calc as no good player will allow a carracosta to set up to +4
+2 252 Atk Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
then weezing uses wil o wisp.
+2 252 Atk burned Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 92-108 (25.2 - 29.6%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery.
weezing then uses pain split and carracosta is now crippled for the match.
+2 252 Atk Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 184-217 (50.5 - 59.6%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
then weezing uses wil o wisp.
+2 252 Atk burned Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 92-108 (25.2 - 29.6%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery.
weezing then uses pain split and carracosta is now crippled for the match.
Well he uses Weakness Policy, so he would get +2 from Shell Smash and +2 from Weakness Policy.
The only SE moves you should ever hit Carracosa with while it's at full health are Bullet Seed, Bonemerang, Circle Throw, or Mold Breaker STAB attacks.
252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Carracosta: 516-624 (161.2 - 195%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Cinccino Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Carracosta: 360-440 (112.5 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Carracosta: 412-492 (128.7 - 153.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Carracosta: 343-406 (107.1 - 126.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Can't OKHO without an item or SR)
252 Atk Mold Breaker Sawk Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Carracosta: 296-350 (92.5 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
It also gets shut down hard by Poliwrath, who resists it's STABs, and can activate WP while phazing with Circle Throw.
I don't think it will be able to get to +4 against a good player more than once. While it has great potential as a cleaner, it needs a notable amount of support, since it can't reliably set up with SR, and can't KO some notable Pokemon, like Breloom, Poliwrath, Weezing, Siesmatoad, etc, even after a smash.
weezings recovery while not reliable at least heals him as much as the damage dealt to the opponent and can cripple high hp mons. The good poison typing coupled with a ground immunity make him pretty nice. He has support options like t-spikes wil o wisp, memento and can even go boom if it has to. Its no slouch offensively with good 105/100 offenses and that fantastic 80/135 bulk.
tangrowth is equally good and alomoala is ridiculously annoying. Personally alomoala is as good if not better than both due to ridiculous HP and a good base 90 def. The only thing that holds it back is its meh sp def.
Did anyone think about how powerful Miltank will be? its in NU so it gets the 15 stat boosts each. 95/80/105/40/70/100 turns into 110/95/120/55/85/115! 115 base speed is incredibly fast for being bulky!
Miltank has already been brought up with a more comprehensive jot
Quagsire is currently OU, so no, it doesn't get any boosts. Which is very good news for physical sweepers in general.
Oops, I spelled it wrong when I searched the page -_-
Anyways, what do people think of Vivillon? Its Speed and Special Attack are now usable and it has Quiver Dance and Sleep Powder
vivillon is still just too slow. Base 89 speed leaves it outsped by everything in the base 105 tier, which is not a good thing and the mere presence of SR means it needs heavy hazard support. Also cradily is immune to sleep powder and can hit vivillon with a 4X stone edge.
also, for you rain lovers here's a set I found in the old thread.
lapras@ leftovers
252hp/252spdef/4def
ability:hydration
curse
rest
waterfall
ice shard/ sleep talk/drill run
basically, use your turns of rain to curse up, resting as needed then once your rain runs out, hit stuff hard with your moves. (note, this set may not be usable anymore)
also, for you rain lovers here's a set I found in the old thread.
lapras@ leftovers
252hp/252spdef/4def
ability:hydration
curse
rest
waterfall
ice shard/ sleep talk/drill run
basically, use your turns of rain to curse up, resting as needed then once your rain runs out, hit stuff hard with your moves. (note, this set may not be usable anymore)
doubt it but 69
weakness policy+baton pass is completely outclassed by gorybyss' smashpass. At least gorybyss can do damage.
Nevermind that - 105 SpA + 95 speed + excellent ghost STAB + Flare Boost with great bulk
- Status