Done Tirtouga

Discussion in 'LC Analyses' started by Lolk, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
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    [​IMG]
    Overview
    ########
    Capable of both sweeping and supporting the team, Tirtouga is a strong and versatile Pokemon in Little Cup. With the reintroduction of Berry Juice into the Little Cup metagame, Tirtouga's Shell Smash + Sturdy set has drastically improved, allowing it to set up on almost every offensive Pokemon in the tier. A combination of good Defense and Solid Rock grants it a solid niche in defensive utility as well. However, Tirtouga's low Special Defense and hindering defensive typing keeps it in check. Nevertheless, once Tirtouga gains momentum, there is little stopping this terrific turtle.

    Shell Smash
    ########
    name: Shell Smash
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Waterfall
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Aqua Jet / Earthquake
    item: Berry Juice
    ability: Sturdy
    evs: 236 Atk / 92 Def / 180 Spe
    nature: Adamant

    Moves
    ========
    Shell Smash is the main move of the set, allowing Tirtouga to outspeed most of the tier and boost its offenses to scary levels after just one use. Waterfall is Tirtouga's most reliable STAB attack, KOing most non-resisting Pokemon at +2. Stone Edge grants it dual STAB, offering a higher powered attack with qualms only in accuracy. Aqua Jet can be used to beat priority users, such as Pawniard and Carvanha, as well as Choice Scarf Pokemon that outspeed Tirtouga even at +2. However, Earthquake is an option for additional coverage, allowing Tirtouga to hit threats such as Croagunk that would otherwise wall the set.

    Set Details
    ========
    Berry Juice and Sturdy let Tirtouga survive two attacks from any Pokemon, allowing it to easily set up and sweep. An Adamant nature works best since Tirtouga already outspeeds most of the tier. A bulkier spread of 4 HP / 212 Atk / 12 Def / 76 SpD / 180 Spe with an Adamant nature, Eviolite, and Solid Rock instead of Sturdy is also viable because it lets Tirtouga set up safely even if Sturdy is broken. Lastly, Rock Slide can be used over Stone Edge if accuracy is more important than power.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Tirtouga can start off as a lead so Sturdy is guaranteed to activate. But, an opposing team with full health usually can KO it before satisfactory damage is done. Tirtouga performs best sweeping late-game, when all of the enemy Pokemon have enough damage for it to nab the KOs. In order for this to happen, Tirtouga needs entry hazards off the field for Sturdy to remain intact. With Sturdy, Tirtouga can switch into any Pokemon with only attacking moves, activate Berry Juice, and set up Shell Smash for the sweep. If Sturdy is broken early-game, use the opponent's weaker attacks and entry hazards to Tirtouga's advantage and switch in at the right moment in order to activate Berry Juice.

    Team Options
    ========
    Since Tirtouga needs Sturdy intact to sweep, Pokemon such as Rapid Spin Drilbur and Defog Vullaby are good partners to keep entry hazards off the field. Defensive cores benefit Tirtouga because it can't switch in until it is ready to sweep. Grass-types such as Ferroseed and Foonguss synergize well with Tirtouga because they cover its weaknesses and spread status, making it easier for Tirtouga to switch in and set up. Lastly, Misdreavus and Spritzee are good partners because they handle Fighting-types that threaten this set.

    Defensive
    ########
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Knock Off / Aqua Jet
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Solid Rock
    evs: 92 HP / 252 Def / 156 SpD
    nature: Sassy

    Moves
    ========
    Stealth Rock is the most important move on the set as it grants constant residual damage to the opposing team. Scald is the STAB of choice because of its reliable burn chance, and Stone Edge is Tirtouga's strongest STAB option, doing decent damage to most of the tier. Since most of the Pokemon in Little Cup rely on their items, Knock Off is a great option in the last moveslot to cripple these Pokemon. However, Aqua Jet allows Tirtouga to pick off damaged opponents later in the game.

    Set Details
    ========
    Solid Rock and Eviolite allow Tirtouga to take some weaker super effective attacks such as Hidden Power Grass from Murkrow and Drain Punch from popular Fighting-types, such as Timburr and Meditite. A Relaxed nature is optimal because Tirtouga is using both physical and special attacks, and it doesn't use its Speed much anyway.

    Usage Tips
    ========
    Setting up Stealth Rock early-game is Tirtouga's most important job. After that it works best as a pivot, using whichever attack is appropriate at the moment. If Tirtouga is using Aqua Jet, it is a good idea to save it for late-game to pick off damaged threats.

    Team Options
    ========
    Grass-types such as Ferroseed and Foongus can wall and status the Electric- and Grass-type Pokemon that threaten Tirtouga. Misdreavus and Spritzee are also great partners because they can eliminate the Fighting-types that threaten Tirtouga.

    Other Options
    ########
    Tirtouga can use Hydro Pump on an offensive set, but Waterfall will do the same amount of damage and has better accuracy. A Choice Band or Life Orb set would work decently so Tirtouga can reliably use both coverage moves and priority in one set. Lastly, Aqua Tail can be used over Waterfall for higher power at the cost of accuracy.

    Checks & Counters
    ########

    **Super Effective Coverage**: Any Grass-, Fighting-, Ground-, or Electric-type attack can usually damage the Shell Smash set severely. With offensive investment, moves of these types can break through the Stealth Rock set, especially if aimed at Tirtouga's weaker Special Defense. Bullet Seed users such as Ferroseed and Remoraid can break through Sturdy as well. Pokemon with both Mold Breaker and Earthquake such as Drilbur and Axew can also stop Tirtouga from setting up. Bulky Fighting-types such as Timburr and Meditite can endure a hit even at +2 and take out Tirtouga with Drain Punch.

    **Entry Hazards**: Stealth Rock and Spikes break Sturdy, allowing most Pokemon to KO Tirtouga before it can set up. Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web also severely limit Tirtouga's sweeping and walling abilities.

    **Utility**: Taunt users prevent Tirtouga from using Shell Smash and Stealth Rock, the two main focuses of its sets. Status inducers such as Will-O-Wisp Misdreavus, Thunder Wave Ferroseed, and Spore Foongus also prevent Tirtouga from performing its job. Knock Off users can remove Tirtouga's Berry Juice or Eviolite, further shortening its longevity.

    skeleton (open)
    Electrolyte helped me through some kinks but i was still pretty tired when i wrote this :>

    Overview
    ########
    • Berry Juice + Sturdy is cool, but preventable
    • Shell Smash allows Tirtouga to rek teams
    • Slow and vulnerable to many offensive types, but it gets priority!
    • Can go tanky if it wants to :3
    Shell Smash
    ########
    name: Shell Smash
    move 1: Shell Smash
    move 2: Waterfal
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Aqua Jet / Earthquake
    item: Berry Juice
    ability: Sturdy
    evs: 24 HP / 212 Atk / 92 Def / 180 Spe
    nature: Adamant

    Moves
    ========
    • Shell Smash allows Tirtouga to sharply boost its offenses and Speed, allowing it to outpace and KO most of the tier.
    • Stone Edge is Tirtouga's strongest STAB choice.
    • Aqua Jet offers a strong priority, allowing Tirtouga to damage faster threats and beat other priority users.
    • Eathquake hits threats, such as Croagunk, that wall the set.
    • Waterfall grants Tirtouga a stronger Water STAB, nailing the KO on threats such as Gligar.
    Set Details
    ========
    • Berry Juice with Sturdy allows Tirtouga to take two hits at full health, letting it easily set up and sweeps
    • An Adamant nature works best since Tirtouga outspeeds enough of the tier with a neutral speed nature.
    • A bulkier Shell Smash spread of 4 HP / 212 Atk / 12 Def / 76 SpD / 180 Spe with an Adamant nature, Eviolite, and Solid Rock is viable granting Tirtouga the ability to safely set up even if Sturdy is broken.
    • A Naughty nature can be used with Ice Beam instead of Waterfall to hit Tangela, who walls the set.
    • Rock Slide can be used instead of Stone Edge sacrificing power for accuracy.
    Usage Tips
    ========
    • Can be used as a lead to guarantee Sturdy intact, but it is highly prepared for as a lead and a check will keep it from doing satisfactory damage to the opposing team.
    • Performs best when brought in late game for a sweep.
    • Must keep hazards off your side of the field to keep Sturdy intact.
    • Bring it in on any pokemon that wields no status moves so Tirtouga can easily set up
    • If Sturdy does break in the match but Tirtouga has enough HP to not activate Berry Juice, keep switching on resisted attacks and hazards until ready to sweep.
    Team Options
    ========
    • Tirtouga needs hazards off the field to keep sturdy intact. Good partners to accomplish this are Rapid Spin Drilbur and Defog Gligar.
    • Grass-types such as Ferroseed, Foongus, and Tangela synergize well with it.
    • Misdreavus, Swirlix, and Spritzee can handle the fighting types that check Tirtouga.
    Defensive
    ########
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Stealth Rock
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Knock Off / Aqua Jet
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Solid Rock
    evs: 92 HP / 252 Def / 156 SpD
    nature: Sassy

    Moves
    ========
    • Stealth Rock supports the team with constant, reliable damage.
    • Scald is used for the awesome burn chance, allowing Tirtouga to cripple physical attackers.
    • Stone Edge is a reliable STAB that still hurts most Pokemon.
    • Knock Off is a great utility attack that cripples many Pokemon, but Aqua Jet can be used to pick off damaged threats late game.
    Set Comments
    ========
    • Solid Rock and Eviolite allow Tirtouga to take many super effective hits, such as HP Grass from Murkrow and Drain Punch from most Fighting-types.
    • It's slow already so the Relaxed nature doesn't cripple Tirtouga much.
    • EVs balance out bulk on both defenses.
    Usage Tips
    ========
    • Send out early game and get hazards up.
    • If it is needed to check any of the opponents Pokemon, keep it safe. If not, just use it as a Pivot and spam its attacks until the enemy is depressed.
    • Can put in some work with Aqua Jet late game, especially if the opponent is using Sturdy+Berry Juice shenanigans.
    Team Options
    ========
    • Gligar can take Ground-, Fighting-, and Electric-type attacks aimed at Tirtouga while Tirtouga takes the Ice-type attacks aimed at it.
    • Grass-types, such as Tangela, Ferrothorn, and Foonguss synergize well with it.
    • Misdreavus, Swirlix, and Aromatisse can handle the fighting types that check Tirtouga.
    Other Options
    ########
    • Hydro Pump can fit onto the Shell Smash set, but it doesn't hit much harder than Waterfall and has shaky accuracy.
    • CB or Life Orb can be utilized allowing Tirtouga to use Earthquake as coverage.
    • Aqua Tail can be used for higher power and worse accuracy.

    Checks and Counters
    ########
    • Entry hazards break Sturdy, severely hindering Tirtouga's performance.
    • Electric- and Grass-type Pokemon can beat both sets easily with their STABs, such as Chinchou, Magnemite, Tangela (who walls the set easily also), Foonguss, and Lileep.
    • Remoraid can easily handle Tirtouga with Bullet Seed.
    • Mold Breaker Pokemon, such as Drilbur, Axew, Pancham, and Cranidos, all can bypass Sturdy and KO Tirtouga.
    • All forms of status can stop Tirtouga from sweeping, with some common users being Misdreavus, Foonguss, and Ferroseed.
    • Bulky Fighting-types such as Timburr, Medidite, and Croagunk (if Tirtouga doesn't use Earthquake) and take a hit even at +2 and KO with their STAB attacks.
    • Taunt prevents Tirtouga from setting up Shell Smash or Stealth Rock.
    • Knock Off removes berry juice and reks Tirtouga's day :(
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
  2. Jac

    Jac We...Are the Crystal Gems!!
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    I think you mean Spritzee instead of Aromatisse
  3. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
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    :O
    Al_Alchemist likes this.
  4. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    If Tangela is banned after this goes up, I highly suggest Ice Beam being slashed in for now, as the OHKO it provides on Tangela after Shell Smash is invaluable.
  5. Raichy

    Raichy

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    You should take out the HP Evs in Shell Smash set and put them in def or sp def (I'm not sure where is useful, but maybe in def is good) because you can make sure that you will get sturdy If you receive a hit that can 1HKO him, so yo prevent to stay in 21/23 HP.
    DTC likes this.
  6. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
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    dcae yea Ray Jay talked on irc before I wrote this up and he said it would be easier to just have a comment in set comments that we can remove if(when) Tangela gets banned so I didn't need to slash evs or anything. I am fine with including it on the set for now if more people want that.

    Raichy okie dokie.
  7. macle

    macle &Vinc2612: to all lc players: is EQ gligar common?
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    * Slash Eq with Aqua Jet, it gives it better coverage and you dont need priority that much at +2 speed.
    * Not entirely sure what order the moves should be for the first set besides SS first
    * Croagunk doesn't want to take an EQ (in the counters)
  8. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
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    Edited, thanks.
  9. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    • What are the 84 SpD (not SpDef) EVs doing here exactly? I always run 92 Def on Tirtouga as the only thing I'm concerned about after Berry Juicing up is to live priority (read: physical). At the very least, your spread is not optimized; you should have 76 SpD instead of 84 SpD if you do decide to keep those EVs.
    • Mention Defog Vullaby as a partner; this is because you often have to play like you only have 5 mons so you never have to switch in Tirt until late, so defensive cores (Vullaby + Slowpoke) naturally are good partners as they use only a few teamslots to wall a large portion of the meta.
    • I think a better spread for the 2nd set would be: 92 HP / 252 Def / 156 SpD with a Sassy nature, as this hits 23 HP (better than 24 HP for Stealth Rock / other hazards) 30 Def and 21 SpD (a lot more than what your set currently offers).
    Instead of:

    Utility
    ########

    You should have:

    SET NAME
    ########
    name: Utility

    And same goes for the Shell Smash set.
    • "Defensive" might be a better name than "Utility" but it is up to you.
    • I think Waterfall should be move 2 on set 1, then Stone Edge (mention Rock Slide in comments but don't give it a slash), then Aqua Jet / Earthquake
    Good job! QC 1/3
  10. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
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    Thanks i think i got everything
  11. macle

    macle &Vinc2612: to all lc players: is EQ gligar common?
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    2/3 since you fixed my shit
  12. Goddess Briyella

    Goddess Briyella ♥ ♥ Official XY LC ♥ ♥ Council/QC Member!
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    • Give Remoraid with Bullet Seed a light mention in Checks & Counters; it carries it on a mixed set almost specifically to override Sturdy and beat this one Pokemon. Also, list Mold Breaker carriers (Cranidos, Axew, Pancham, and Drilbur) in Checks & Counters to the Shell Smash set, as they can potentially OHKO Tirtouga through Sturdy with their super effective attacks, especially after the defensive drops caused by Shell Smash.

    QC 3/3
  13. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
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    thank you bri :)
  14. melvni

    melvni
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    Actually it should be:

    Utility
    ########
    name: Utility

    I think this is because when they go on-site the line above the #'s will be the name of the tab on the analysis where the information about the set is written and the line under the #'s will be the name of the set within the tab itself. At least that's how it is in the XY Smeargle example in the thread about the new format.
  15. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
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    okey i switched it back
  16. Goddess Briyella

    Goddess Briyella ♥ ♥ Official XY LC ♥ ♥ Council/QC Member!
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    Lolkomori, you can go ahead and convert your bullet points into paragraph form, and a QC member will do a final check on your completed writeup afterward. You can switch the tag to "Copyediting" and replace QC 3/3 with GP 0/2 in the title after you get this final approval from QC. Good work! ♥
  17. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
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    I will try to write this tomorrow.
  18. Corkscrew

    Corkscrew ium is cute
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    Just noticed, your evs give tirtouga 22 HP... this means that if it gets hit down to sturdy range, it will only be at 21/22 HP so a second sturdy wouldn't happen
  19. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
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    whoops the correct protocol is to put excess evs in a random stat, correct?
  20. Expulso

    Expulso

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    You say Gurdurr in Other Options; you should probably change that to Timburr :)
  21. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
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    I am out of it today :s
  22. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
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    whoops I forgot to post yesterday.

    This is written :)
  23. Ray Jay

    Ray Jay "The sky's the limit, okey-dokey!"
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    • "With Berry Juice and Sturdy, Tirtouga's Shell Smash set drastically improved, allowing it to set up on almost every offensive Pokemon in the tier." is unclear, I would change it to "With the reintroduction of Berry Juice into the Little Cup metagame, Tirtouga's Shell Smash and Sturdy set has drastically improved, allowing it to set up on almost every offensive Pokemon in the tier."
    Doesn't look like you missed anything else, this is ready for GP!
  24. Lolk

    Lolk the cold never bothered me anyway
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    thank you, Ray Jay!
  25. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    YES I'M FIRST FINALLY GET TO GP SOMETHING!!

    Great job Lolkomori

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    GP Approved 1/2 I missed you alakastamp ;-;
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2014

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