To Mega or Not To Mega - Gyarados

[EV]

Inspired by Mega Doppelgangers

This project will test the limits of the very foundation we hold so dear in Generation VI: Mega Evolution. Each week I'll present a Pokemon and its Mega forme. Your job is to determine if that Pokemon should or shouldn't Mega evolve in a particular metagame. We'll weigh all the options: list each forme's strengths and weaknesses, provide alternatives for both, and suggest sample teammates to back up our claims. Then we can say with confidence to Mega or not to Mega.

The metagames open for analysis in this project are the ones where nearly every mega is available (i.e. not PU) and where evolution is still relevant (i.e. not Balanced Hackmons). Some of these weeks will be more straight-forward than others, but I challenge you to really dig into the merits of both Pokemon before giving your verdict. Basically, don't just regurgitate lines from the viability ranking.

(And remember, there's only one Mega slot, so could the base forme be better simply because it's not a mega? )

Open metagames:

• STABmons
• Almost Any Ability
• Tier Shift
• Inverse Battle
• Monotype

Week 3
Gyarados

95 | 125 | 79 | 60 | 100 | 81
Ability: Intimidate (Moxie)
Weakness: Electric, Rock
Resistance: Bug, Fighting, Fire, Steel, Water
Immunity: Ground

Tier Shift/Inverse
95 | 125 | 79 | 60 | 100 | 81
Weakness: Bug, Fighting, Fire, Ground, Steel, Water
Resistance: Electric, Rock

Mega Gyarados

95 | 155 | 109 | 70 | 130 | 81
Ability: Mold Breaker
Weakness: Bug, Electric, Fairy, Fighting, Grass
Resistance: Dark, Fire, Ghost, Ice, Steel, Water
Immunity: Psychic

Tier Shift/Inverse
95 | 155 | 109 | 70 | 130 | 81
Weakness: Dark, Fire, Ghost, Ice, Psychic, Steel, Water
Resistance: Bug, Electric, Fairy, Fighting, Grass


​

Step 1) Compare the formes.

• What are their niches in the metagame?
• What do they check and counter?
• Where relevant (AAA), what ability should the base forme run with and without Mega evolving?

Step 2) Find alternatives.

• What can fill the base forme's roles effectively?
• What can fill the Mega forme's roles effectively?

Step 3) Offer teammates.

• Give the base forme a core. How does it interact with that core? What does this overall team look like?
• Give the Mega formes a core. Same as above.

Step 4) To Mega or not to Mega?

• Which offers more viability and why?

1) Compare

• Grass and Poison typing grants some useful tools previously unavailable to Venusaur like Aromatheraphy, Spiky Shield, Toxic Spikes, and Spore. Offensively it gains a nice setup move in Coil and good attacks like Seed Flare, Gunk Shot, Sludge Wave, and Horn Leech. The typing is generally more helpful defensively where it can sponge hits from Azumarill, a major threat, plus Clefable and Diancie and threaten them back with a SE STAB attack.
• Mega Venusaur sports better overall bulk and loses the weaknesses to Fire and Ice. Base Venusaur has the option to carry a Life Orb for higher damage output or Black Sludge to regain HP each turn. Giga Drain and Synthesis remedy the loss of Black Sludge for the Mega in most instances, however.

2) Find Alternatives

• As a defensive check to Fairy, Water, Electric, and Grass, Ferrothorn makes a great alternative. It still packs the utility of Grass moves like Spore, Leech Seed, and Aromatherapy, but it also sports more resistances and an immunity while gaining a weakness to Fighting and a double weakness to Fire. It's also notable for resisting all of Azumarill's common attack types (Water, Fairy, Normal), so it can check Azumarill even better than Mega Venusaur.
• Amoonguss has the same typing as both (though can't take neutral hits to Fire and Ice like Mega Venusaur) and a great ability in Regenerator which allows it to recover HP without designating a moveslot to Synthesis. It tends to play a more defensive role and relies on Spore to disable a target since it lacks the offensive presence necessary to scare out most attackers.
• Tangrowth has a better Defense but a much worse Special Defense and often carries an Assault Vest to patch it up. With comparable stats in Attack and Special Attack it can hit on both sides as needed and offers more offensive presence than Amoonguss or Ferrothorn. Like Amoonguss it runs Regenerator so it doesn't need Synthesis or Leech Seed to regain health.
• There aren't common offensive Grass-types other than Mega Sceptile, which is a better version of base Venusaur in nearly every scenario except it struggles with some Fairies.

3) Teammates

• Both Venusaurs need to watch out for Flying-types which are common in STABmons. A partner like Rotom-H can switch into threats such as Thundurus, Landorus, Togekiss, Charizard-Y, and Talonflame, all who give Venusaur grief. Aerodactyl still gives the core trouble so a third member like fully-defensive Landorus-T or Skarmory can tank its attacks. Those two also offer Defog support, which Rotom-H appreciates and that leaves Venusaur to act as a cleric when needed.
• Possible Mega Venusaur core:
  
  
  
• An offensive core can build off F/W/G coverage. LO Venusaur clears out Water, Rock, and Ground Pokemon fairly well, opening up room for a Fire-type such as Talonflame to sweep. A Water-type is then helpful to get rid of those Fire Pokemon that check Venusaur and Talonflame, so adding Greninja is a good idea. Greninja also outspeeds and KOs threats like Thundurus and Landorus-I and -T, who could give the other teammates trouble.
• Possible base Venusaur core:
  
  
  

4) Determination

• I say "to Mega". Mega Venusaur faces competition from other Grass-types who can pull of similar and better roles most of the time, but it maintains a good offensive presence that some Pokemon like Ferrothorn can't pull off as effectively. It may lack the utility of Regenerator that Amoonguss and Tangrowth bring, but a stronger Giga Drain makes up for it somewhat. Base Venusaur is too outclassed by another Mega, Sceptile, to really have a solid offensive niche in STABmons, and defensively its own Mega forme outclasses it with much better bulk and two less resistances.

Archive

Week 1 - Venusaur
STABmons (see OP), Monotype 1, Monotype 2
Week 2 - Sableye
STABmons, Monotype 1 & 2
Week 3 - Scizor
Monotype 1 & 2

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

For Monotype :D

Dinosaur Swag Plant :]

1) Compare the formes

• Regular Venusaur is not as bulky as its Mega, nor as powerful, but it does have one niche: Chlorophyll. This allows it to be a sweeper on very HO Sun teams with its still decent bulk, and access to a solid movepool. Its main niche on these Sun teams is its access to Earthquake, which can otherwise give Sun teams trouble, walling Pokemon such as Victreebel and Leafeon. It has decent mixed stats, and the ability to hold an item, unlike its Mega, usually LO. Sets of Earthquake/Knock Off/Giga Drain or Sludge Bomb or Synthesis/Solarbeam perform decently as a member of offensive Chlorophyll spam Sun Grass teams.
• Mega Venusaur is literally on like, every Grass team pretty much <.< With access to an amazing Ability granting it neutralities to two of the type's weaknesses, as well as above average bulk allowing you to use it as a physical wall, special wall, OR a mixed wall, it can perform a variety of roles effectively on more defensive teams. It also pulls its weight on balanced/bulky offensive teams however, with access to a neat Curse set and a good special attacking set. An excellent Pokemon for almost any team archetype, Mega Saur is a bulky Pokemon that can hit hard and has access to reliable recovery via Leech Seed/Giga Drain/Synthesis to boot.

2) Find Alternatives

• Grass has a variety of other good Chlorophyll sweepers. Victreebel is arguably the best, and is the reason why regular Venusaur is forced to go mixed or physical--a special role is outclassed by Victreebel. Shiftry and Leafeon are also good Chlorophyll sweepers, and they are physical attackers.
• Mega Venusaur has almost unmatched walling capabilities. The only Pokemon that come close to its mixed walling potential are Cradily and Ferrothorn. Tangrowth and Amoonguss are also decent walls, especially AV Tangrowth, and Regenerator allows them to regain health to wall more stuff later as they switch between each other.

3) Offer Teammates

• As I have said, regular Venusaur's only niche is on offensive Sun teams. Therefore, it partners well with other offensive Sun abusers. Whimsicott is first of all a great partner to set Prankster Sunny Day, and has U-Turn to switch out. Another good partner for it is Victreebel, mainly because Victreebel is an excellent Sun sweeper, and Venusaur can support it excellently through eliminating Heatran and removing Leftovers/Eviolites/Black Sludges from walls allowing some 3HKOs to turn in to 2HKOs for Victreebel.
• 
  
  
  
  
• Mega Venusaur is an excellent wall, so it goes very well on stall Grass. To support it (as teams are often built around the Mega Venusaur set you choose) you should use another wall, such as Ferrothorn or Cradily. Now, all of these Pokemon dislike burns, as they cancel out Leech Seed recovery, and force you to Synthesis more often, wasting your precious 8 PP (or Recover in Cradily's case, but it has 16 PP--still annoying, but not as difficult, unless it gets Toxiced, which will force you to switch). An underrated Pokemon imo, is Celebi as a special wall. It has access to Recover, Heal Bell, Screens, Healing Wish, Leech Seed, Perish Song, and a variety of offnsive moves so you aren't Taunt bait. Heal Bell is the most important move imo, as it offers great team support and allows the other members to not be worn down as easily.
• 
  
  
  and/or
  

4) Determination
I say to Mega. In almost every scenario, the added bulk, power, and resistances (through Thick Fat) is preferred over regular Venusaur. Mega Venusaur is vital on Grass teams through its combination of the above points with decent coverage and reliable recovery making it very difficult to kill. It is not outclassed in any way, whereas Venusaur is usually outclassed by its Mega (in a defensive role and as an attacker), by Victreebel (as a Chlorophyll special user), or Shiftry/Leafeon (as a physical Chlorophyll user). There is next to no opportunity cost to running Venasaurite on Grass, as the only other Mega (Sceptile) is only really used on HO Grass teams that appreciate its high speed (Mega Abomasnow sucks on Grass). So in 99% of all scenarios, there is next to no reason not to Mega evolve into Mega Venusaur.

Note: This is just for Grass, I don't use Poison that much, so I figured I'd let someone else do it, with more experience using that type. Also, the more contributors the better ;) I will do it later if nobody else does though

 

[DarkeKnight]

This is a pretty cool idea! Though I can't really contribute to this scenario as I've never used Venusaur.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

OK, so nobody else did Poison, so I guess I'll do that too o.o
1) Compare the formes

• Regular Venusaur really does not have a niche over Mega Venusaur on Poison teams. The only niche I can think of is MAYBE a LO set with like, Knock Off/EQ or Giga Drain/Sludge Bomb, as Sun is bad on Poison--if you are gonna use a weather team, Rain is much preferred, with Pokemon like Gengar (Thunder) and Toxicroak (Dry Skin).
• Mega Venusaur is much preferred on Poison monos. With access to much balk and a Ground neutrality, it can wall a lot of Pokemon that its teammates can't. It also outclasses regular Venusaur in an offensive role most of the time due to better bulk, a better ability, and better stats.

2) Find Alternatives

• Any special attacker or physical attacker. For example, Drapion has Knock Off and EQ and Mega Venuasaur and Gengar get more power from special sets. Heck, even Victreebel lmao.
• Mega Venusaur has almost unmatched walling capabilities. The only things I can think of right now that are almost as good as it are Weezing as a physical wall with WoW and Ass Vest Drapion makes a decent bulky offense Pokemon.

3) Offer Teammates

• Venusaur really sucks, except if you really want to use it and have Mega Beedrill on HO teams. It is 100% outclassed. That being said, if you MUST use it, here is a decent core:
• 
  
  
  
  
• Mega Venusaur is an excellent wall, so it goes very well on stall Poison and bulky offense Poison. Partnered with fellow walls such as Weezing and Drapion (who have some good offensive presence as well) it can make a decent core.
• 
  
  

4) Determination
I say to Mega. In literally every scenario, the added bulk, power, and resistances (through Thick Fat) is preferred over regular Venusaur. Mega Venusaur is great on bulky offense Poison as well as all-out stall Poison, and regular Venusaur is 100% outclassed. Unless you use Mega Beedrill on a HO team and really want the Ground neutrality, there is literally zero opportunity cost to using Venusaurite in my experience. Therefore, I say to Mega.

 

[EV]

Looks like you should mega evolve Venusaur in STABmons and Monotype (both Grass and Poison).

The Pokemon and its mega this week is Sableye!

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

reserving Sableye in STABmons

Inb4 EG ignores this and does it anyway
I'll do Sableye for both monotypes

 

[skies]

Sableye is a very common Pokemon in STABmons. While it has fallen from its grace in recent times, this is not to say it isn't one of the best Pokemon in the tier. Due to its pivotal abilities, excellent ways to stop set up sweepers, and ability to spread sleep / burn, it remains solid. Sableye is a great check / counter to Fighting- and Normal-types, of which there are plenty. Most physical attackers are wary of Sableye, in fear of being burned. However, Sableye can *technically* stop anything in the game via Dark Void, of which it excels at using. Prankster is what makes Sableye such a solid Pokemon, hitting before other Pokemon regardless of their stat boosts. An important thing to note is that Sableye is immune to Extreme Speed, a very common move. Sadly, it is not immune to Scrappy Extreme Speed, but it'll live with this one flaw! Sableye is a stallbreaker like no other, and it excels at nearly everything it attempts to do. Some selections from its movepool include Dark Void | Recover | Taunt | Parting Shot | Topsy-Turvy | Foul Play | Will-O-Wisp | Knock Off | Memento | Destiny Bond. These are just the most used ones, but Sableye can explore many other options as well!

Mega Sableye, on the other hand, plays an entirely different role. Mega Sableye is used primarily on Stall teams to control entry hazards and set up late game as a win condition. It has excellent bulk, and a wonderful ability in Magic Bounce; a very exclusive ability that not much else in the tier can use effectively. Calm Mind | Will-O-Wisp | Recover | Snarl is the set, and it's been used to great success in every match I've ever played with it. Though, I'm not primarily a Stall player (I heavily dislike the playstyle), but from watching other's replays, it's safe to conclude that Mega Sableye is a threat. To put Mega Sableye's bulk into perspective, a burned +6 252+ Kangaskhan isn't guaranteed to 2HKO Mega Sableye with Extreme Speed! That's some pretty great bulk! Do note, however, that Mega Sableye should never stay in on Kangaskhan because of Drain Punch; it's just an example of a powerful hit versus Mega Sableye. However, Mega Sableye comes with opportunity cost. Using it over Sableye means you miss out on Sableye's utility. It also means you miss out on other Stall Mega Evolutions, like Mega Latias, for example.

Now that we've compared them, let's go over alternatives. Sableye's role is nearly unmatched in STABmons. The only other Pokemon I believe can even compare to Sableye is most likely Greninja. Greninja can make use on offensive teams due to its high Speed to spread Dark Void, pivot via Parting Shot, and actually has an offensive presence. However, it lacks Will-O-Wisp, and Prankster, and bulk. If you're looking to stop set up sweepers, Klefki is also an option. Klefki can spread Thunder Wave with its own Prankster, and has reliable recovery to top it all off! Comparing something to Sableye is incredibly hard because it's just so damn good, and nothing can truly, completely, claim to be parallel to it. Mega Sableye, on the other hand, could be compared to Mega Diancie. Both can run Calm Mind, have decent bulk, and both have Magic Bounce. They do not fulfill similar roles, however. This is why I believe Clefable would be a fair comparison. Both can be win conditions, are unaffected by status, and are both really good. All in all, both Pokemon excel in their roles, and finding a complete comparison will be very challenging, so I'd propose Klefki for Sableye, and Clefable for Mega Sableye. Notice how they're both Fairy-types? Not on purpose!

Many Pokemon pair well with Sableye, but I believe the above are some of the best options. Due to Sableye's sheer utility, it's often left supporting its teammates, not the teammates supporting it. For that reason, nearly any Pokemon appreciates Sableye's capabilities. Landorus-Therian forms a neat physical stopper core, and can pivot into teammates in and out sort of like bees in a hive. Heatran easily smacks Fairy-types and can set Stealth Rock to wear down the Pokemon that Sableye forces out in fear. Kangaskhan likes sleeping, weakened Pokemon so that it can easily set up and turn a game around. Mega Scizor, like Kangaskhan, loves this support, but not nearly on the same caliber as Kangaskhan. Mega Aerodactyl likes softened blows, and can wear down Fire-types which are immune to Will-O-Wisp to allow easier spamming. Chansey and Sableye together are pure annoyance, and can be very difficult to break if you lack a lot of offensive pressure. Really though, nearly any offensive Pokemon will go well with Sableye because it's so excellent and can find its way onto nearly any team you would like it to!

Above Pokemon have good synergy.

Personally, I'd say you can do either. Neither is better than the other, because they fulfill roles other than each other's. It's indifferent, really, but if I absolutely had to pick I would say do not mega.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

MONOTYPE
Dark and Ghost

Step 1) Compare the formes.

• Regular Sableye usually functions as a stallbreaker on both types. With access to Taunt/WoW/Recover, it can singlehandedly wear down some stall teams by itself. It usually runs a physically defensive set and can function as a great physical wall after burning the opponent. The last moveslot is up to you--Foul Play allows it to check set up sweepers such as Scizor, Knock Off has great utility, and Prankster Confuse Ray causes ultimate hax and causes rage quits ;o
• Mega Sableye functions as a sweeper. With Prankster WoW on the turn it Mega evolves, it can halt a physical sweeper and buy the opportunity to set up Calm Minds. The best part is, you don't have to Mega evolve right away--you can keep Prankster to set up Prankster Calm Minds and dish out wisps before Mega evolving to gain extra bulk and sweep. The usual set is WoW/Recover/Calm Mind/Dark Pulse, or you can run Recover/Calm Mind/Shadow Ball/Dazzling Gleam if you don't mind losing wisp. It also can't be directly statused due to Magic Bounce. Overall Mega Sableye is like an upgraded version of Sableye, as it can still mostly perform Sableye's role, while also turning into a sweeper.

Step 2) Find alternatives.

• On Dark, Mandibuzz can fill Sableye's role pretty well. It has access to Taunt/Knock Off/Toxic and great bulk, as well as recovery in Roost, phazing via Whirlwind, Fowl Play (hehe), and Defog. On Ghost, Mega Banette can fill a similar role as a stallbreak with Prankster Taunt/WoW, although it lacks the good recovery Sableye has--Pain Split is unreliable at best.
• The closest thing to Mega Sableye on both types is Spiritomb. With a CM/ResTalk/Dark Pulse set it can function as a set up sweeper and can absorb status. It's advantage over MegaEye is the ability to hold Leftovers. It's disadvantages include having to rely on ResTalk for recovery (specifically, if you get unlucky with Sleep Talk you're screwed), no Room for WoW on the set, and is HUGE Taunt bait.

Step 3) Offer teammates.

• Sableye in base forme fits well on offensive teams that appreciate its stallbreaking capabilities. It can also burn threats and allow for something else to come in and wallbreak/set up.
• 
  
  
  
  
  
• Sableye on Dark also functions well on offensive teams that like breaking stall. Once again, it can buy opportunities for sweeps and be a general annoyance.
• 
  
  
• Mega Sableye on the other hand functions as an excellent wincon on stall teams. Spreading status early game then coming back later to sweep in Mega forme.
• 
  
  
  
  
• 
  
  

Step 4) To Mega or not to Mega?

• On Ghost I say to Mega. There is almost no opportunity cost to using Sablenite as Mega Banette is bad and it can still spread burns like nobody's business before setting up and sweeping later.
• On Dark It really depends on your type of team. If you are running offense using regular Sableye and another Mega is probably better imo, so on offensive Dark I say not to Mega. You CAN run MegaEye as a wincon on offensive Dark, but I have found it better as a supporting stallbreaker to help Bisharp or another Mega (such as Absol or Tyranitar) sweep instead. On defensive Dark teams however, it's ability function as a bulky wincon is much appreciated, so on defensive Dark I say to Mega.

 

[EV]

Looks like you should mega on a Monotype Ghost team and not mega on a Monotype Dark team! unfixable , can you make your stance clearer in your post about Sableye in STABmons?

This week's topic is Scizor, a Pokemon that plays very similarly to its mega forme unlike our last two Pokemon.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

MONOTYPE
Bug/Steel

Step 1) Compare the formes.

• Scizor and Mega Scizor basically do the same thing. The both destroy Fairy/Rock/Ice with Technician Bullet Punch, both can run bulky sets, and both can run SD sets.
• Scizor imo generally is better on offense for being able to hold an item for more power. Band or SD LO sets utterly destroy many types late game, while being a great revenge killer as well. On Bug teams it can also run a Lefties SD or Roost/Bullet Punch/Bug Bite or U-Turn/Defog set for hazard removal.
• Mega Scizor on the other hand does bulky better. With a set of SD/Roost/Bullet Punch/Superpower or Knock Off or Bug Bite it can become a pain to take down while it boosts before sweeping you. It also does Roost+3 attacks better.

Step 2) Find alternatives.

• On Steel, Metagross can perform the role of a Banded Bullet Puncher very well, with great coverage. On Bug Mega Pinsir can run a great SD/Aerilate Quick Attack set to tear apart opposing Bug, Fighting, and Grass monotypes. Forretress can be a bulky hazard remover, but lacks recovery and an offensive presence.
• Again, Metagross or Lucario can be Bullet Punchers, although a bulky SD sweeper set is unmatcehd on Steel. inb5 SD Skarmory please don't use SD Skarmory :s

Step 3) Offer teammates.

• Scizor performs very well on offensive Bug teams. VoltTurn HO teams really appreciate its wallbreaking presence and ability to revenge kill on Bug
• 
  
  
  
  
  
• Scizor also performs well on offensive Steel teams, able to eliminate weakened opponents with ease
• 
  
  
  
  
• Like I have said, Mega Scizor is a great member of more defensive teams for its ability to abuse a bulky SD/Roost set to be a reliable wincon
• 
  
  
  
  
• Bulky Steel teams also appreciate its ability to be a wincon and bulky Pivot that is neutral to Ground/Fighting
• 
  
  

Step 4) To Mega or not to Mega?

• To be honest, it really depends on your team. On Bug I personally prefer not to Mega as I really love using Banded Bullet Punch, and the Band and SD LO sets really complement Bug's other Megas (such as Mega Pinsir and Mega Beedrill) very well. On Steel however, it is a reliable wincon for bulky offense teams, balanced teams, and offensive teams so on Steel I say to Mega, especialy now that MegaGross is banned and Mega Aggron is only good on stall teams.

 

[skies]

Done Eevee General.

 

[EV]

Let's try one more week before this dies X_X

This time it's Gyarados, a Pokemon that changes typing upon mega evolution, bringing in a whole new set of weaknesses and resistances. It's common in nearly every OM, so let's see if we can hit all five of the ones listed in the OP!

 

[skies]

Gyarados - STABmons