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Togekiss (QC Approved 0/2)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Colon Three :3, Nov 15, 2010.

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  1. Colon Three :3

    Colon Three :3

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    I think this page is pretty much done. Could I get someone to review it and mark it as such?
    [​IMG]
    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/468.shtml
    [Overview]
    <p>Togekiss has a solid 120 base Special Attack and great defenses (85/95/115) for a sweeper. He has one of the largest support movepools in the game, with access to moves like Roost, Wish, Thunder wave, Heal Bell, both screens, Encore, Trick, and Baton Pass. Togekiss is also pretty good on offense with access to many great special attacks like Aura Sphere, Air Slash and Fire Blast, a strong priority for those who want to run Hustle in Extreme Speed, and Nasty Plot to boost his already high Special Attack. Togekiss's main selling point is his access to Serene Grace, allowing you to get a 60% flinch rate with Air Slash. The only thing holding Togekiss back is his lackluster base 80 speed, but this can be remedied with the help of a Choice Scarf, Thunder Wave, or a Baton Passer for speed. It should be noted that 252speed and a +speed nature will allow you to outrun all base 92speed Pokemon (Waruvial) in addition to threats like Dragonite (speed tie if max speed as well), Lucario (252, adamant/modest) and Roserade (same as Lucario). </p>

    <p>Togekiss's greatest strength is its massive movepool and the ability to be able to many different things. Since his movepool is that large, I will only be able to list a few of his sets, namely those that work well in the current gen5 metagame.</p>

    [Set1]
    Name: Cleric
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Move1:Wish
    Move2:Heal Bell
    Move3:Air Slash
    Move4:Thunder Wave/ Protect/ Encore
    Item:Leftovers
    Nature:Calm or Bold, depending on whether you want to be physically or specially defensive
    EV Spreads: 232HP/ 252Def/ 24SpDef (physically defensive) or 232HP/ 24Def/ 252 SpDef (specially defensive)

    [Set Comments]
    <p>This set combines wish passing and heal bell to create a dedicated healer.
    Although Blissey and Vaporeon are better for walling and wish passing, Togekiss is able to switch into more things than Blissey and has access to Heal Bell, which is always good.</p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>232 HP gives you a leftovers number +1 (369, 23 points each turn) which is always good. The fourth moveslot comes down to personal preference, T-wave helps with paralysis support while Encore can be used to force a switch and let you get a wish off, Protect is so you can heal yourself. Toxic can be used to stall opponents if you are into that sort of thing.</p>

    <p>The EVs and the nature can be altered so you are able to take hits from both kinds of attackers fairly well. Max attack Roobushin will be unable to 3hit KO you with mach punch even after stealth rock, this applies to both sets. You can survive Choice Scarf Timid Shanderra Overheats if specially defensive and haven't taken stealth rock damage. I haven't tested it on Specs Sazandora's DracoMeteors, but I think you will be able to survive one.</p>

    [Teammates and Counters]
    <p>Like all Normal/Flying types, this Togekiss fears electric, ice, and rock type attacks, so having someone who can take a hit from them is reccomended. </p>
    <p>Brijion, Breloom, Rotom-W, Lanturn, Empoleon, Magnezone, Lucario, Doryuuzu, Lati@s, Swampert, and Quagsire are just a few of the pokemon that resist 2 of the three types Togekiss is weak against, Magnezone has the distinction of resisting all three.</p>

    [Set2]
    Name: Parahax
    Move1: Thunderwave
    Move2: Nasty Plot
    Move3: Air Slash
    Move4: Aura Sphere/ Roost/ Wish/ Baton Pass/ Heal Bell
    Nature: Calm or Modest
    EVs: 252Spatk, 232 HP, 24Special Defense
    Item: Leftovers

    [Set Comments]
    <p>The classic Parahax set returns to troll a new generation of Pokemon! Nasty Plot's +2 boost to Special Attack helps you take out your opponents in fewer turns, reducing the chance of them being able to strike back. This Togekiss is able to take repeated hits from many of the games primer threats, namely Roobushin and Ulgamoth. </p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>The 232 EVs in HP allow for a leftovers number +1. Aura Sphere can be replaced with a supporting or healing move that lets Togekiss be more of a team player. </p>

    [Teammates and Counters]
    <p>Since Gamefreak decided to do something good for once and remove the Ghost typing from Rotom-A, his status as a counter to Togekiss is questionable. Zapdos, Electrivire, Jolteon, Lanturn, Rotom-S, Boltros, Scarf T-Tar and Garchump are the only pokemon you really have to worry about. Garchump is only on the list since he can pose a threat with Stone Edge and is immune to Thunder Wave. At +2, Togekiss can take out T-Tar and Doryuuzu with a single Aura Sphere. Switching Aura Sphere with Baton Pass might be worth trying as only a few pokemon can pass Nasty Plots. Heal Bell and Wish are great supporting moves and need little explanation.</p>
    <p>Togekiss only needs someone to take hits from stuff he doesn't like, the list of teammates from Set1 also works for this one.</p>

    [Set3]
    Name: Offensive Nasty Plot
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Move1: Nasty Plot
    Move2: Air Slash
    Move3: Aura Sphere
    Move4: Roost/Fire Blast/Thunder Wave/HP Ice
    Item: Life Orb
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4HP/ 252SpAtk/ 252Speed

    [Set Comments]
    <p>Life Orb boosted STAB Air Slashes from a +2 Togekiss are nothing to laugh at (unless your Blissey). By going full out on the offensive with Life Orb instead of Leftovers means you will not be able to take that many hits from Pokemon that either resist or get lucky. Roost is recommended for the last move but all of the other ones are fine too since they help with beating the pokemon who can counter you. HP ice will 1shot Garchump and co. it will also hurt Zapdos and Boltros for a lot. </p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>Modest can be used instead of Timid, but Togekiss needs the speed from Timid to outrun Adamant/Modest Lucario and other neutral base 90s.</p>

    [Teammates and counters]
    <p>Zapdos, Boltros, Rotom-S and Chansey and Blissey are the only pokemon who can safely switch into a +2 LO Togekiss. Blissey and Chansey fear flinchax from Air Slash until their HP is low enough to get KO'd from Aura Sphere. Blissey also fears Psycho Shocks should Togekiss have that instead of Roost. </p>
    <p>For teammates, the ones from Set1 work well here too. But what really helps LO Nasty Plot Togekiss alot is having someone pass speed boosts to it. Both Blaziken and Ninjask work well, but Blaziken is the better of the two since he isn't weak to stealth rock and can pass additional Special Attack boosts with Cheer Up. Smeargle, Masqurean and Venomoth can also work with passing Butterfly Dances. A +2 or +3 LO Togekiss with a speed boost is very threatening and is very hard to revenge kill. At +2 speed, Timid Natured 252 speed Togekiss will outrun many of the game's fastest sweepers, neutral natured Kingdra, Kabutops, Doryuuzu, and Venusaur, are all outsped by this Togekiss even when in their respective weather conditions.</p>

    [Set4]
    Name: Hustle
    Move1: Extreme Speed
    Move2: Drain Punch/ Hidden Power Ground
    Move3: Fire Blast/ Cheer Up
    Move4: Shadow Ball/ Roost/ Cheer Up
    Item: Life Orb
    Nature: Naughty
    EV Spread: 252 Atk/ 252 Spd/ 4SpAtk or 252 Atk/ 248 SpAtk/ 8 Spd

    [Set Comments]
    <p>This is a mixed set. Extreme Speed is your primary attack, Drain Punch is for steels, normals and rocks. Fire Blast and Shadow Ball are for coverage and attacking ghost types.</p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>Cheer Up is a great move for this set because it is mixed and that Cheer Up will boost both stats by +1 and should be considered a viable option over a coverage move. The Element of Surprise is one of this sets biggest assets, not many people expect a physical attacking Togekiss. </p>

    [Teammates and Counters]
    <p>In addition to the other pokemon previously mentioned, a baton passer with Claw Sharpen is highly recommended, Blaziken and Ninjask are perfect since they can do speed boosts as well. At +1 to accuracy, moves have a 133% chance to hit, after factoring in the 20% reduction from Hustle, you are left with 106.4% accuracy (1.33 x 0.8 = 1.064) meaning that you will not miss a single attack as long as their evasion is at 0 and they don't lower your accuracy. An Extreme Speed from a +1 Hustle Togekiss with a Life Orb will hurt a lot, if done right, you can sweep teams with this set up.</p>

    [Set5]
    Name: Choice
    Move1: Air Slash
    Move2: Aura Sphere
    Move3: Fire Blast/ Shadow Ball/ HP: Ice/ Psycho Shock
    Move4: Trick/ Shadow Ball/ HP: Ice/ Psycho Shock
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4HP/ 252 SpAtk/ 252Spe

    [Set Comments]
    <p> This set is pretty self-explanatory, its your standard Choice Scarf set with 3attacks +Trick (or 4 attacks). Nothing more, Nothing less. </p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p> You will be at 426 speed with the scarf, not all that bad, but nothing to call home about either. </p>

    [Teammates and Counters]
    <p> If you are locked into Aura Sphere, Shanderra will usually result in a loss for Togekiss. Jolteon with max speed will still outrun you so take extra caution. Faster scarf users like Garchump will be able to KO you. </p>
    <p> Overall, this set really doesn't need much support other than a guy or two to take hits for Togekiss. </p>

    [Set]
    Name: Offensive Healer
    Move1: Heal Bell
    Move2: Nasty Plot
    Move3: Air Slash
    Move4: Aura Sphere/ Shadow Ball/ Fire Blast
    Item: Leftovers
    Nature: Timid
    EVspread: 40HP/ 216SpAtk/ 252Spd

    [Set Comments]
    <p>At first the idea of giving an offensively oriented Togekiss a move like Heal Bell might sound silly, but its actually very good in action. This set's key selling point is that many special walls will be unable to stop you because they rely on Toxic or other status ailments to KO Togekiss. Ideally, you use Nasty Plot on turn1 as they switch to their special wall. Then you use Nasty Plot a second time while they hit you with a status move like Toxic or Will-O-Wisp. Then you use Heal Bell to get rid of the status ailment. You are now sitting at 990 special attack and they can't to much to stop you. Heal Bell lets you stay in on Blissey or Burungeru who are both common special walls and flinchax them either to death or within KO range with an Aura Sphere. The other common special wall, Tyranitar, will be KO'd by a +2 Aura Sphere the turn after he switches in. </p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>The EVs should stay the same for the extra bulk and leftovers number. Timid should always be the nature since it lets you outrun neutral base 92s (Warubairu) with 252 speed evs. Shadow Ball and Fire Blast can be alternatives for Aura Sphere but are less useful when taking out T-tars and Blisseys. </p>

    [Teammates and Counters]
    <p> The list of teammates from earlier work for this set too. </p>
    <p> This set has fewer counters than the other sets because of its ability to stay in on special walls and beat them with relative ease. Zapdos and Boltros are still a hassle as is are scarfed Garchomps and T-tars who use Stone Edge. </p>

    Also this is the one set I have had the most success with on Pokemon Online.
  2. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    It might help for you to correct the format in which your analysis is written in(your current one is still quite good but not 100% correct ;p)

    For all Sets there is a single format everyone must follow: I will use your first set as an example of the correct way to present your set.

    Code:
    [SET] (Dont give sets different numbers, calling them [SET] is enough.)
    name: Support (Only use a simple and easy name for the set. For your 1st Togekiss set, simply name is 'Support' instead of giving a name and then putting another one in brackets.)
    move 1: Air Slash (Air Slash abuses Serence grace so no need to slash it with Toxic, since you already have Thunder Wave.)
    move 2: Heal Bell
    move 3: Wish
    move 4: Protect / Thunder Wave   ([B]Always[/B] leave a space between the slash and the two moves listed)
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Serene Grace
    nature: Calm / Bold (No need to explain in here which one you should use, all the explaining should be saved for doing in the 'Additional comments' section.)
    evs: 
    Ok regarding the EVs section there is a set order and these are the abbreviations to be used.

    HP / Atk / Def / SpA / SpD / Spe So for your first set it would look like this:

    232 HP / 252 Def / 24 Spd and once again don't mention alternative spreads in here. Save that for the additional comments or Optional changes section.

    As this is still 'work in progress', I will wait till you are finished to make other corrections. Good job nevertheless seeing as this is your first!
  3. Sir Azelf

    Sir Azelf

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    Vaporeon DOES have Heal Bell.
  4. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Hustlekiss probably deserves a mention...

    I suggested this in the UT Togekiss discussion thread, and I think it's pretty good. It's not really a stand-alone set, because it requires baton-passed Claw Sharpen boosts, but it's pretty interesting, IMO.

    Hustlekiss (Claw Sharpen reciever)
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Hustle
    Nature: Naughty
    EVs: 252 Atk / 248 SpA / 8 Spe
    - Extremespeed
    - Fire Blast
    - HP Ground / Drain Punch
    - Shadow Ball / Roost
    Hustle + Claw Sharpen results in 106% of attacks' regular accuracy, and 2.25x as much Attack, which is even better than a Swords Dance boost. So basically, after getting passed a CS, you're mini-Extremekiller Arceus, knocking out everything that comes your way with that 2++ Attack STAB ExtremeSpeed. The other moves on the set are for anyone that resists it... Steels/Heatran/Ghosts respectively. The EVs are just what I was given, but you can add more Speed to outspeed certain threats and stuff. Drain Punch can be used for healing, even though it doesn't hit Heatran as hard, and Roost is mentioned for the same reason.

    Also, I'm not really sure why Parahax Togekiss isn't the first set listed... :0 It's by far the most used and most popular Togekiss set, if not the best outright.
  5. Fizz

    Fizz

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    Are you sure it works that way, Banryu? I believe I read somewhere that Hustle's 80% accuracy is applied after the Claw Sharpen boost, and since Claw Sharpen can't boost moves over 100% accuracy, they still have 80% accuracy max after Hustle.

    I might be mistaken.
  6. Colon Three :3

    Colon Three :3

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    Fixed some errors and Fizz, Claw Sharpen works with hustle, its what Ainto uses a lot. since CS boosts your accuracy, you will have over 100% accuracy (I think its like 133% or something) which after calculating the 20% reduction from hustle would equal 106.4% (133% x 80% = 106.4%)
    I will probably finish it on the 18th, real life issues have consumed too much time as I anticipated. (that and Pokemon Online :3 )
  7. IcyyDreams

    IcyyDreams

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    I think you should add Aerial Ace somewhere to that also, with hustle + Aerial Ace it's a good STAB to have
  8. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    You have not made any of the changes I've asked you regarding the format(scroll up to my earlier post). Please do so before calling this 'complete'.
  9. AJC

    AJC

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    needs more mention of tri-attack 40% chance to burn/freeze/par

    sure it's a XD move from way back from 3rd gen but it is decent stab that makes it even more annoying to come in on it.
  10. Banryu

    Banryu

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    Not really. :\ Aerial Ace has low BP and Claw Sharpen boost already fixes Hustle's accuracy issue... plus Kiss needs all its other moves to hit things that ExSpeed won't. Trust me, it's probably fine as its listed.

    In fact, all the SpAtk EVs I listed might not even be necessary. :0 As long as you can guarantee 1-2HKOs on all the important ESpeed resistors, full SpA EVs aren't really necessary, and the rest can go into Speed or something.

    I concur with this. Tri Attack is allright. Its no flinchax, but....
  11. Colon Three :3

    Colon Three :3

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    I tried A-Ace on hustlekiss, its not as good as you think it is. Extreme Speed and Drain Punch work a lot better than A-Ace.
  12. soonerorlater

    soonerorlater

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    I have my doubts about Offensive Healer set. It's not sticking around long to heal statuses, being SR weak and lacking Roost. Without Roost, Chansey can outstall you, as it is barely a 3HKO with Aura Sphere at +2, and it can Seismic Toss you in 4 turns to kill off the Togekiss.

    Just in general, I think most defensive sets need Roost for instant healing and be able to switch in more frequently. Or you can pack Wish to heal something else as you see fit, but its Wish is only healing pokemon with low HP effectively.
  13. Colon Three :3

    Colon Three :3

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    Not that many people use SR compared to gen4, and I have a spinner so it really doesn't matter to me. I admit, the Heal Bell set is gimmicky, but it works wonders for me since a lot of my pokemon are frequently hit by toxic and will-o-wisp.

    I just felt like listing it since it was the one I use personally.
  14. Romano

    Romano

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    You forgot the move Heat Wave. This one works great with Serene Grace thanks due its increased chance to burn and has pretty good coverage.
  15. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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    He already mentioned Fire Blast, which is better.
  16. Mijzelffan

    Mijzelffan

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    No dream world section with something about Super Luck?
  17. Juice!

    Juice!

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    Seriously, no mention of Tri Attack? 40% to either burn, freeze, or paralyze is amazing, and it gets STAB too. Nothing (aside from ghosts) really wants to switch into it, as there is a 40% chance the switch in just got neutered.

    You could just go Tri Attack/Air Slash/Nasty Plot/Aura Sphere or something? I dunno, it deserves to be slashed in, at the very least.
  18. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    I think Tri Attack is a pokemon XD move, so it's basically illegal with all of Togekiss's Gen 4 Egg moves and Gen 5 Egg moves, so it's illegal with Nasty Plot.
  19. Juice!

    Juice!

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    You're right, I just realized that now. However, it's still worth mentioning on a choice set I think. Air Slash/Aura Sphere/Tri Attack/Shadow Ball (or Fire Blast) seems good on a Scarf set. The Togekiss in my Soul Silver has that moveset so I know that this time it's legal. XD
  20. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    Somalia already pointed this out, but you have not corrected your format yet, Colon Three :3. This is the correct format for a set.

    Do not have multiple EV spreads on the set. Mention alternative EV spreads if any, in Additional Comments of the relevant set. This is the case for the Cleric set and the Hustle set.

    Specs Sazandora Draco Meteor will OHKO Specially Defensive Togekiss, but this is simple logic. If a 210 BP Attack (Overheat) from 389 SpA(Timid Shandera) does ~80%, then a 210 BP Attack(Draco Meteor) from 576 SpA(Modest Specs Sazandora) will indeed OHKO.

    There are too many slashes for move 4 on the para-hax set. Togekiss is meant to sweep with paralysis support, so only Aura Sphere for more coverage and Roost for healing are the required slashes. Remove Heal Bell(you already have a Cleric set), Wish(this set is not meant to be a Wish support, and Togekiss already has Roost for healing) and Baton Pass, but give BP An AC mention on the same set.

    Remove Protect from the first set, it is only used for scouting, and T'Wave / Encore are clearly superior options. Give it an AC mention though. Also, expand your set comments for set 1.

    It is not HP: Ice, expand it. The correct usage of the word is Hidden Power Ice.

    On the Hustle set, remove the mention of Baton Pass on Blaziken; Baton Pass on Blaziken is illegal even though PO allows it. current DW Torchic are male, and therefore cannot get Baton Pass which is an egg move.

    On Set 5, please expand your set comments. "Standard X stuff, nothing more, nothing less" is not what the comments for a set should be. Please explain the move slashes for the concerned set.

    This analysis could do with some improvement. There are numerous grammatical errors as well.
  21. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed "Smogon friends" is an oxymoron.
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    I would like permission to take over the analysis after some coaxing, if possible. If not, that's fine. There are some rather large holes in this analysis I'd like to eliminate.
  22. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
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    Locked for inactivity. The above poster will be taking over this.
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