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Quality Control Togepi [QC 2/3]

Discussion in 'LC Analyses' started by Hilomilo, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. Hilomilo

    Hilomilo High-low My-low
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    *Given permission by Levi and OP to take this one over*

    [OVERVIEW]

    Togepi has a small yet useful niche in LC as one of the tier's bulkiest Pokemon with access to Nasty Plot and Baton Pass. This allows for Togepi to easily support teammates by supplying them with large boosts in Special Attack. A great defensive typing in pure Fairy allows Togepi to further secure its niche, providing it with key resistances to common attack types in Dark, Fighting, and Bug. Togepi can also pose a decent offensive threat once boosted, thanks to its workable Special Attack and diverse special movepool. Unfortunately, Togepi faces stiff competition from other users of Baton Pass, such as Torchic and Aipom, due to its inability to boost Speed and reliance on tanking hits to pass boosts as a result. It also faces severe competition as a defensive Fairy-type from the likes of Spritzee and Snubbull, who have better bulk, offensive presences, and overall utility. This severely limits Togepi's ability to fit on a very wide variety of teams, and also makes it very predictable.

    [SET]
    name: NastyPass
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Baton Pass
    move 3: Dazzling Gleam
    move 4: Fire Blast
    item: Eviolite / Berry Juice
    ability: Serene Grace
    nature: Bold
    evs: 236 HP / 156 Def / 76 SpD / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    Nasty Plot provides Togepi with a +2 boost to its Special Attack, which it can then either pass to teammates or utilize to wear down foes. Baton Pass allows for Nasty Plot boosts to be given to teammates, which secures Togepi's niche in the metagame. It can also allow for Togepi to pivot out of Pokemon that will likely switch into it, such as Alolan Grimer and Croagunk. Dazzling Gleam is a powerful STAB option with a Nasty Plot boost, and is used to wear down opposing teams for Togepi's teammates. Fire Blast covers the Steel-types that otherwise wall Togepi, such as Magnemite and Ferroseed, while also giving it a way of hitting Foongus for super effective damage.

    Set Details
    ========

    Maximum investment in HP alongside heavy Defense investment and a Bold nature gives Togepi a good amount of physical bulk, while the Special Defense EVs allow for it to retain decent special bulk as well. The remaining EVs are invested in Speed, which allows Togepi to outrun various defensive Pokemon, such as Spritzee and Foongus. Eviolite is the preferred item, as it further bolsters Togepi's bulk. This notably allows for Togepi to avoid the OHKO from various strong attacks, such as Eviolite Pawniard's Iron Head and Rufflet's Brave Bird. Berry Juice is also an option, however, and gives Togepi a source of recovery and the ability to avoid certain 2HKOs, such as from Diglett's Earthquake or from Doduo's Brave Bird. Serene Grace is the preferred ability due to giving Fire Blast a decent chance of burning foes.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Thanks to Togepi's good bulk, it can be switched into Fighting-types without Poison-type coverage fairly easily. From there, Togepi should begin setting up with Nasty Plot, and if possible, attempt wearing the opposing team down with Dazzling Gleam and Fire Blast before passing its boosts to a teammate. Togepi should look to use Baton Pass on the same turn in which it will likely tank an attack from an opponent, as afterward it will be too low on health and slow to pass any boosts. It should also try passing its boosts upon predicting switch-ins to Steel- and Poison-types, as it will otherwise be forced out and thus waste its boosts. Togepi's Baton Pass is mainly utilized to pass Nasty Plot boosts, but also comes with the additional benefit of brining teammates in safely due to Togepi's low Speed.

    Team Options
    ========

    Fast specially offensive Fire-types like Ponyta and Torchic have excellent synergy with Togepi, as they can cover its Steel-type weakness while also greatly appreciating the Special Attack boosts it passes. Other special attackers that either struggle to set up or are unable to boost their offenses, such as Abra, Staryu, and Chinchou, make excellent recipients of Togepi's Baton Pass. Diglett is a particularly useful partner, thanks to its ability to trap and dispose of the Poison- and Steel-types that prevent Togepi from reliably passing boosts. It also enjoy's Togepi's slow Baton Pass, since it can safely bring Diglett in on a predicted switch. Other checks to Poison- and Steel-types, such as Mudbray and Mienfoo respectively, are greatly appreciated by Togepi. Entry hazard removal is optimal for allowing Togepi to stay as healthy as possible while passing boosts, which makes Pokemon like Staryu and Kabuto good means of supporting Togepi.

    [STRATEGY COMMENTS]
    Other Options
    =============

    A set consisting of the moves Dazzling Gleam, Fire Blast, Stored Power, and Baton Pass can be used on ChainPass teams to allow Togepi to act as a threatening sweeper once provided with Baton Pass boosts. Unfortunately, such a set is usually outdone by Munna, which is more powerful and receives a STAB boost from Stored Power. Psychic can be used to nail the Poison-types that Togepi hates dealing with, though most Poison-types won't take extremely heavy damage from the attack, or will even be immune in the case of Alolan Grimer and Stunky. Flamethrower can be used over Fire Blast for its better accuracy, but won't usually hit most of its targets for good enough damage due to Togepi's fairly low Special Attack stat. Super Luck can be used over Serene Grace for its ability to increase Togepi's chances of getting a Critical Hit, but the ability to more easily burn foes with Fire Blast is generally more valuable. Morning Sun and Soft-Boiled are both options for giving Togepi some reliable recovery. However, the former has limited pp and takes up a moveslot, while the latter is incompatible with Nasty Plot, which heavily compromises Togepi's niche. Lastly, Togepi has access to a plethora of potentially useful support moves, such as dual screens, Encore, Trick, Heal Bell, and Thunder Wave, but can't usually make good use of them due to being more or less outclassed in a supportive role.

    Checks and Counters
    ===================
    **Poison-types**: Poison-types can comfortably tank Togepi's attacks and proceed to pressure it with super effective STAB attacks. Alolan Grimer in particular is immune to the rare Psychic, which allows it to more or less wall Togepi, while Mareanie is also particularly troublesome due to its ability to use Haze to remove Togepi's stat boosts.

    **Steel-types**: Although they fear Fire Blast, Steel-types can outspeed and apply heavy offensive pressure to Togepi. Examples include Pawniard, which can OHKO even Eviolite variants with a Life Orb-boosted Iron Head, and Magnemite, which can fire off powerful Flash Cannons while surviving Fire Blast thanks to Sturdy.

    **Taunt**: Taunt from Pokemon like Cottonee and Onix can prevent Togepi from setting up with Nasty Plot or from passing its Special Attack boosts to teammates. All Pokemon, however, should be wary of taking too much damage from Togepi's boosted attacks.

    **Phazers**: As mentioned before, Mareanie can tank multiple hits from Togepi while removing its stat boosts with Haze, while other phazers, like Foongus and Munchlax, can do the same thing with Clear Smog and Whirlwind respectively, albeit a little more unreliably.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  2. parivard

    parivard

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    762
    hmmm seems good. But I would like to argue on few stuffs.
    [EVs Spread]
    The current EVs spread doesn't work much in SM and would rather prefer you to go with: EVs: 160 Def / 120 SpA / 80 SpD / 120 Spe
    36 Spe only allows you to get into ties with:
    1. Spritzee 2. Snubbull 3. Grimer-A [Most importantly] 4. Lickitung

    Just to outspeed ^those^ pokemons and get into speed ties with some pokemons using 160 Def / 120 SpA / 80 SpD / 120 Spe with calm nature[So, you don't get destroyed easily by Abra etc.]is better.
    It outspeeds all those above mons and gets you into ties with:
    1. Timburr 2. Skrelp 3. Shellos 4. Honedge
    236 HP only allows you to take less damage from stealth rocks. That too Togepi with 236 HP takes around 9% and a togepi with no HP take 10%. So, not a big difference.

    [Set]
    Since, its basically used as a BP user only so: You might slash HP Fighting with Fire Blast.

    [Set Details]
    Adding the details as to why HP Fight can be used[basically hits Pawniard and Amaura and other Pokemons who are 4x weak to fighting moves].

    [Team Options]
    Add Grimrer-A too because it pursuit traps certain pokemons which are quite effective on Togepi like gastly and deals damage to steel types with either Knock Off STAB or simply Fire Blast. Add vullaby too since it helps Togepi to get into the field without HP loss by defogging hazards.
    Add LO Torchic too because it helps you in both passing speed and destroying opponent's mons which actually makes it a good recipient of boosts.

    [Strategy Comments]
    OO

    Add that Flamethrower has more PP.
    Rest all seems fine.

    [Checks and Counters]
    *Poison Types*: Add Trubbish too since it can either go for STAB Gunk Shot or stack Spikes.

    *Phazers*: Add that Whirlwind and Roar users can take away Togepi's boosts even without damaging.

    *Stat Drops*: You might add this that Intimidate users like Growlithe, Sandile, Scraggy and Snubbull forcibly drop stats and taking more time to acquire more boosts will leave your team into more trouble.

    Didn't find any other thing incorrect or left out. I guess adding above things is enough.
    Thnx Rasberry Pie SG in helping with speed thing.
  3. Berks

    Berks has a Calm Mind
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    Hello, please ignore almost all of what parivard said!

    Just a few minor notes from here:
    • Consider a section about fast Fire-type special attackers, such as Torchic and Ponyta, as your first Team Options bullet point. They share remarkable synergy with Togepi! You could then work the next point into a more general statement by saying "Other special attackers ..."
    • Elaborate on the fact that Diglett happens to benefit immensely from Togepi's slow Baton Pass, as it often gives you a free trap on a predicted switch!
    • I'd call Vullaby a more reliable hazard remover than Alolan Sandshrew, so replace it's mention in Team Options.
    • Mention the phazing moves that Foongus and Hippopotas use (Clear Smog and Roar/Whirlwind) in order to a) be as thorough as possible and b) to cover all your bases.
    Solid stuff man, you write really good analyses!

    QC 1/3
    Leo likes this.
  4. Drew

    Drew formerly LitsYaBoi1337
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    lemme pull a Berks right quick: Hilomilo my man I know you're busy but can you try and get this implemented?
  5. Drew

    Drew formerly LitsYaBoi1337
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    amcheck
    Overview
    I don't think Aipom is the best example here, I think either replaing it with foo or saying "mainly Torchic" will do better
    The last point should probably be incorporated to the one above as standalone it sounds weird
    Note Togepi's lack of Speed and a bad SpA stat prevents it from being a good sweeper itself
    Set
    Fine
    Moves
    I disagree with suggesting that Baton Pass lets it pivot out on undesirable matchups. Sure it can live 1 hit if running Eviolie, but 99.9% of the time you want to preserve your wincon's HP and just hard switch
    Dazzling Gleam line suggests Gleam is only powerful with Nasty Plot. Iunno is this actually matters or if it's what happens to you when you start learning how to GP but consider changing it
    Set Details
    outpace or outspeed rather than outrun i fink
    second to last line implies that BJ stops them from being 2HKOes. It doesn't :/ Instead I'd say note the longevity it provides
    Usage Tips
    Examples of Fighting-types both and lacking and running Poison-type coverage
    Team Options
    Note Drilbur, Mudbray, and non-Diglett Grounds in general
    I don't like listing Abra as a Poison check, as it doesnt like to switch in and acts more as a revenge killer and underlying threat. Maybe use Mudbray or perhaps Slowpoke???
    Other Options
    Baton pass chain set first
    other than that great!
    Checks and Counters
    Mienfoo should not be listed, as it wouldn't really stay in on Togepi unless using like Pjab imo

    All in all really good!
  6. Xayah

    Xayah We always have a plan
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Implement Drew's check, except for:
    Yes it does

    Also do

    [OVERVIEW]
    • Say Togepi is 'one of the bulkiest' instead of the bulkiest. Rowlet has very comparable bulk so yeah
    Team Options
    ========
    • Mention other BPers for a chain as well as receivers (are you serious? Ponyta and Torch as the only ones?)
    QC 2/3, write me up Scotty
    [​IMG]
  7. OP

    OP
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  8. Hilomilo

    Hilomilo High-low My-low
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    implemented
  9. Nineage

    Nineage Spooky Pachyderm
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    Usage Tips
    ========
    • Mention both when talking about Togepi tanking an attack and passing boosts and bringing in a teammate safely that Togepi taking a hit with its bulk means a frail teammate doesn't have to take damage

    Team Options
    ========
    • Talk about BP Chains

    Checks and Counters
    ===================
    **Poison-types**: This point doesn't make sense. If psychic is rare (and not even on the set) then why does it matter whether Grimer is immune to it? Just give examples of mons that don't take much damage from Togepi's attacks, and leave it at that. I'd also add faster poison types like salandit and maybe clear smog trubbish to this list.

    Implement this and give yourself 3/3, good work as usual.

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