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Togepi

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Professor Birch, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

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    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/togepi

    [Set]
    Name: TogePower
    Move 1: AncientPower
    Move 2: Flamethrower
    Move 3: Extrasensory
    Move 4: Hyper Voice
    Item: Eviolite
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Modest
    EV's: 236 HP/76 Def/76 SpDef/120 SpAtk

    [Set Comments]
    - With Serene Grace, AncientPower has a 20% chance of boosting EVERY SINGLE STAT(1/5)
    - Hyper Voice for STAB
    - Flamethrower is just a filler that would also get a 20% chance of burn instead of 10%
    - Extrasensory is to take out the ever so common Fighting types and after a 2 or 3 boosts, Togepi can out speed and just flinch pokemon like Mienfoo to death
    - EV spread to max out HP and give mixed Defenses. The SpAtk EV's are to make sure Togepi will actually kill something after being boosted
    - This chance is somewhat luck based but when played correctly, can devastate teams
    - Altough a lot weaker, Incinerate could be used to render opponent berries useless
    - If you would like to sacrifice accuracy for power, Fire Blast could be used over Flamethrower
    - Psychic could be used over Extrasensory for more power but will also lose the flinch effect in exchange 20% chance of lowering the opponents SpDef
    - Stored Power could also be used but is risky due to the fact that it needs some boosts to be real helpfur
    - Shadow Ball could be used over Signal Beam if you like the sound of 40% chance to lower SpDef
    - Here is an example of when this works: http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/lc9673291

    [Set]
    Name: Physically Defensive
    Move 1: Toxic
    Move 2: Wish
    Move 3: Protect
    Move 4: Psychic
    Item: Eviolite
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Bold
    EV's: 236 HP/236 Def/36 SpAtk

    [Set Comments]
    - Blessed with Wish as a reliable recovery
    - Wish can also be passed on to another teammate
    - Psychic as a filler to take care of Fighting types
    - EV's max out HP and Def as well has boost SpAtk by one point
    - Psychic could be changed based on personal preference

    [Set]
    Name: Specially Defensive
    Move 1: Toxic
    Move 2: Wish
    Move 3: Protect
    Move 4: Psychic
    Item: Eviolite
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Calm
    EV's: 236 HP/236 SpDef/36 SpAtk

    [Set Comments]
    - Same as last set but specially oriented
    - Blessed with Wish as a reliable recovery
    - Wish can also be passed on to another teammate
    - Psychic as a filler to take care of Fighting types
    - EV's max out HP and SpDef as well has boost SpAtk by one point

    [Set]
    Name: Nasty Plot
    Move 1: Nasty Plot
    Move 2: Flamethrower
    Move 3: Psychic
    Move 4: Shadow Ball
    Item: Eviolite
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Modest
    EV's: 236 HP/76 Def/76 SpDef/120 SpAtk

    [Set Comments]
    - Nasty Plot boosts SpAtk to a high level
    - Psychic to be used over Extrasensory in this case because flinch is useless if moving last
    - Flamethrower and Shadow Ball are fillers and can be switched out to other moves
    - These EV's will allow Togepi to get off Nasty Plot and hit back

    [Checks And Counters]
    - Mienfoo can counter just about any set except possibly 1st set
    - Togepi is slow and can be easily out sped
    - Other counters really depend on the filler moves
    - Fighting types in general can crack this egg
    - Not very easy to bring in

    [Teammates]
    - Ghost can get free switch ins on Fighting moves aimed at Togepi
    - Psychic types can easily take care of the Fighting weakness
    - Rapid Spinners can help get rid of any entry hazards
  2. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

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    Ready for comments!
  3. Agonist

    Agonist This god that I worship, this demon I blame
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    Why not run Hyper Voice for a consistent stab? I really don't see why you're using Signal Beam, other than banking on a 20% chance for confusion. Additionally, Togepi is slow as hell, so you're better of using Psychic, since there isn't a whole lot that doesn't outspeed Togepi, meaning flinches are pretty useless in most cases. Furthermore, instead of maybe getting an AncientPower boost, why not just run Nasty Plot, and guarantee +2 SpA?

    Also, the specially defensive spread should be using Calm instead of Careful.
  4. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

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    I can understand Hyper Voice and will change that. After the AncientPower boosts Togepi out speeds a lot. Check the link, it shows how Extrasensory came in handy with the flinch. I have Nasty Plot set as a different set because I felt that they should be different. Thanks for catching that. I get mixed up with Natures sometimes.
  5. Good_Luck!

    Good_Luck!

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    Relying on AncientPower to boost speed is shaky, specially if you are running 0 EVs on speed. Togepi starts at 8 speed wich outspeeds... nothing, not even Standard Hippopotas or non-Gyro Ball Bronzor. That's LAME because at +1 Speed you are at 12 which outspeeds walls but you are not flinching to death 'mons with reliable recovery (almost all usable pokemon on low speed benchmarks). At +2 you are at 16 which outspeeds good 'mons but that means you have to hit +2 on AncientPower and that can be hard as most good players will often switch their Fighting-types on Togepi; Mienfoo can potentially beat you IF the opponent gets lucky, Scraggy won't be hit by Extrasensory, Timburr has Mach Punch to bypass the flinch, many unused Fighting-types are Scarfed and Riolu will Protect/Sub to scout. Psychic with that BIG chance of SpD drop is better IMO. 20% is good chance but not THAT good.

    On the Nasty Plot set, I don't think Psychic is good, again because of the uninvestment and because it offers you no coverage at all. Hyper Voice, Flamethrower and Shadow Ball are all a necessity to achieve perfect coverage on most threats. Running no Speed EVs on something that's supposed to sweep is bad, you won't get far with a speed of 8 as you'll take a hit to even set up and another one to hit anything, which means your sweep is ending before it even starts. Anything can 2HKO Togepi with that spread (except for support 'mons like Chikorita or Duskull).

    Physically Defensive and Specially defensive are exactly the same with just a different focus. Body Slam with 60% chance of paralysis is better than Psychic as Togepi should NOT stay into Fighting-types at all with 0 Speed EVs as even the slowest of them, Timburr, will naturally otspeed you (with a -Spe Nature!) before you even have a chance of throwing wish or Psychic.

    I think Togepi's place is not attacking, although it actually hits things hard at +2, I concede that. Its speed is really low so you MUST use Body Slam and/or Thunder Wave to make up for that. I think Defensive Togepi has a good niche in spreading paralysis on all 'mons in the tier (except, obv, for Limber). A set with Wish/Protect/Thunder Wave/Body Slam would be good, IMO.

    Maybe Softboiled|Morning Sun/Thunder Wave/Body Slam/Toxic|AncientPower. Softboiled is a 3rd gen tutor which is incompatible with AncientPower but Morning Sun is a low PP move tutor in BW2 which is legal with AncientPower.

    The First set is really weird and I honestly think that's a gimmick... It could potentially win you matches if you are lucky enough.

    BTW, switching non-Shed Skin Scraggy into Bronzor was a bad move because of the Toxic risk, that made harder the game. And your team is really Scraggy weak :).
  6. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

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    I will edit this when I get on my computer. Dont worry, that is not my team. I just picked the first pokemon that came to mind. I just needed a team to test the sets.
  7. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
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    If a 4 attacks set was going to be accepted Fire Blast is needed over Flamethrower just for the sheer power. Togepi needs all the power it can get. A modest maxed out Fire Blast guarantees the 2hko on Shroomish and foongus (barring a miss) which flamethrower doesn't do. (which is kinda a testament to Togepi's weakness). The set also probably needs Shadow Ball to hit Ghost types. To be honest if I was using this Togepi set that would go over Ancient Power for me. Relying on a 20% boost is too unreliable. In general this set is just going to switched in and beaten by fighting types. It's really not worth it. Same goes for Nasty Plot set. Just too slow for that. Physically defensive is pointless as it's not really walling anything. Specially defensive is the most plausible but that set is outclassed by Lickitung who has tonnes more bulk. I've been really trying to think of a viable set for this guy and the only one I came up with was Good_Luck's paralysis mon with Wish/Protect/Thunder Wave/Body Slam. I'd still much rather use Lickitung despite the lack of thunderwave and high paralysis chance of bodyslam though. I suppose Togepi does have a niche of basically just paralysing the switch in then running away. A paralysed Mienfoo can really suck for many players.
  8. Elevator Music

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    I would probably scrap all the sets, but the one that Good_Luck! posted. Even then, I would probably include Headbutt somewhere, because I honestly think that Togepi's gimmick lies there. Some sort of paraflinch set is probably the best idea, Wish support is nice too I guess.

    The format you're using seems to be a little outdated as well. Check here for the one we use currently[/url] (though you don't need all the bolding). You can also check some of the other analysis here to get a better idea.
  9. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

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    So a set like this
    Name: Physically Defensive
    Move 1: Thunder Wave
    Move 2: Wish
    Move 3: Protect
    Move 4: Headbutt
    Item: Eviolite
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Nature: Impish
    EV's: 236 HP/236 Def/36 Atk

    Should I really get rid of every single set other than this one?
  10. iss

    iss happily ever after
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    Softboiled is nice too. Slash Body Slam with Thunder Wave, and consider Fire Blast to hit Steel-types.
  11. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

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    Why would I do that. Togepi has a horrific Atk stat. Thunder Wave has a 100% chance of paralysis.
  12. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck i am woodchuck
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    Body Slam can paralyze Ground-types, which is especially useful in the case of Pokemon like Drilbur.
  13. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
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    Nah, AC Body Slam imo.

    edit: And yeah, all the other ones are balls.
  14. Professor Birch

    Professor Birch

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    Sorry its been a while. I will make edits later today!

    Edit: Could I pass this on to someone else. I really don't want to do a ParaFlinch analysis.
  15. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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    Moving this to locked/outdated since I doubt anyone else wants to do it either

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