Togetic (QC 1/3)

Taking over for Togie

QC Checks: TheCanadianWifier

Overview
########
+Great Bulk that is amplified with Eviolite
+Good defensive typing with two immunities to back up its bulk
+Access to useful moves, like Baton Pass and Defog
-Weaknesses to common types, such as Ice and Electric.
-Special attack is mediocre, meaning bulkier Pokemon like Feraligatr can set up all over it
-Reliance on Eviolite makes it struggle as a wall
-Horrible speed makes it Taunt bait and setup fodder

Defensive
############
Name: Defensive
Move 1: Defog
Move 2: Roost
Move 3: Toxic / Heal Bell / Encore
Move 4: Seismic Toss / Dazzling Gleam
Item: Eviolite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Nature: Bold


Moves
========
- Defog is used to get rid of Stealth Rocks and other hazards
- Roost is a reliable recovery in case Togetic takes too much damage
- Toxic is used to deal residual damage to the opposing Pokemon
- Heal Bell is used to heal your own and/or your teammates status problems
- Encore allows Togetic to lock an opponent into a move, most notably Pokemon such as Feraligatr that may try to set up on it
- Seismic Toss is used to deal consistent damage
- Dazzling Gleam is used for STAB and saves Togetic from being complete Taunt bait
- Fire

Set Details
========
-Max Defense makes Togetic a prime Physical wall.
-Max HP makes up for Togetic's mediocre HP.
-Eviolite is used to increase Togetic's already good bulk.
-Togetic's typing is better for physically defensive sets, which explains the investment in Physical bulk rather than Special bulk.

Usage Tips
========
-Togetic has great bulk, but do not use it recklessly and keep it in on Pokemon it should stay in on, despite being able to live most of their attacks
-Try not to rely on Togetic to Defog too often, as its Stealth Rock weakness can really wear it down.
-Be careful when switching Togetic into Pokemon that tend to carry Knock Off, as losing Eviolite can cripple it
-Togetic has solid bulk, but recognize that is is meant to wall certain Pokemon. Overall, Togetic is really passive and encourages certain Pokemon to set up on it, such as Feraligatr, so do not expect Togetic to reliably handle them.


Team Options
========
-Seismitoad makes a great partner with Togetic. It makes a great switch in with Togetic to three of her weaknesses, and Seismitoad appreciates Togetic's Grass resistance.
-Fire types, such as Typhlosion and Pyroar, are also excellent partners with Togetic, due to being able to handle two of Togetic's weaknesses. However, on the more defensive teams in which Defog Togetic is usually used, Specially Defensive Flareon is a better teammate.
-Steel types, such as Steelix, Ferroseed, and Probopass make good partners for Togetic, being able to cover some of Togetic's weaknesses to Steel and Poison-Type attacks
-Audino is an excellent choice for Togetic, as Audino can pass wishes to it to take some strain off of it.
-F
-Rhydon appreciates Togetic's ability to handle Fighting-type and Grass-type Pokemon
-Hariyama can take Rock and Ice-Type attacks that would normally trouble Togetic

Baton Pass
############
Name: Baton Pass
Move 1: Baton Pass
Move 2: Nasty Plot
Move 3: Roost
Move 4: Dazzling Gleam / Fire Blast
Item: Eviolite
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Nature: Bold

Moves
========
-Nasty Plot boosts Special Attack and should only be used to be passed on
-Dazzling Gleam is used for STAB, and keeps Togetic from being Taunt bait.
-Fire Blast allows Togetic to heavily dent Steel-types at +2, such as Steelix and Ferroseed. the former of which may attempt to phaze Togetic out.
-Roost is a reliable recovery for Togetic, and can be used when your HP is low
-Baton Pass is the main move of this set, and can be used to pass on Togetic's boosts and keep the momentum up

Set Details
========
-Physical investment allows Togetic to make use of its resistances, and further increase its ability to check Dark and Fighting-types.
-Eviolite boosts Togetic's defenses by 50%, allowing it to take more hits.
-Super Luck has some use on this set should Togetic ever need to use Dazzling Gleam, as an increased chance of a Critical Hit may come handy at times, and its other two abilities are completely useless to begin with.

Usage Tips
========
-Be focused on boosting for a teammate that can benefit from the boosts
-Togetic can avoid most unboosted OHKOs, so do not be afraid to set up when its checks are still present, since Togekiss can just Baton Pass to a teammate that can handle them.
-However, know what Pokemon can outspeed and wear it down really fast, such as Archeops
-Switch Togetic on something it can force out or cannot threaten it, such as Gurdurr, and start boosting


Team Options
========
-Special Attackers that appreciate Special Attack boosts, such as Rotom, Sceptile, and Typhlosion pair well with Togetic; these recipients are also faster than the majority of the metagame, and can put more pressure on the opponent because of their speed.
-Because this set lacks Defog, Stealth Rock control is appreciated from Togetic, as it is weak to Stealth Rock. Sandslash is a good teammate not only to spin, but also to handle some of the Rock and Steel-Type Pokemon that trouble Togetic. Cryogonal has access to Rapid Spin as well, but can make use of Baton Pass boosts that Togetic can pass to it.
-Togetic appreciates teammates that can lure in Pokemon that it can set up on. Pawniard lures in Fighting-types such as Gurdurr and Pangoro, and Rotom Dark Types like Malamar.
-Mesprit in an offensive check to Poison-types like Dragalge and Vileplume that trouble Togetic and can take advantage of Baton Pass boosts, though it should be noted that it lacks the speed to put additonal pressure the opponent.
-Samurott appreciates Nasty Plot boosts, and while it is not particularly fast, it appreciates receiving a +2 boost to its Special Attack.


Other Options
########
-A Wish set can be used to pass recovery for teammates, but Togetic's low HP makes it a poor user of this move.
-Thunder Wave can be used to make up for Togetic's slow speed and spread Paralysis, but Toxic is the better option.
-Flamethrower can be used in place of Fire Blast on the Nasty Plot set, though it is much weaker on the desired targets of choice.
-A Specially Defensive set can be used, but Togetic's typing is more suited to handle physical attackers.

Checks & Counters
########
**Fire types** Fire Types, such as Flareon, Typhlosion and Magmortar resist Dazzling Gleam, and most of them can 2HKO Togetic, but all of them dislike switching into Toxic, as it can wear them down.
**Knock Off** Many of the Pokemon that Togetic is supposed to wall, such as Gurdurr and Liepard, carry Knock Off, which can remove Togetic's Eviolite and hinder its defenses.
**Taunt** Taunt users, such as Mismagius and Archeops, can really screw up Togetic, as she relies on status moves.
**Steel and Poison types** Steel and Poison types are immune to Toxic, resist Dazzling Gleam, and can easily KO Togetic with a STAB move. Klinklang can set up Shift Gears on it or KO it with Gear Grind, whereas Togetic will be unable to do anything back, and Weezing and Vileplume can wear it down with STAB Sludge Bombs, while Togetic is unable to do much back.
**Bulky Setup Sweepers** Bulky Pokemon such as Feraligatr can take advantage of Togetic's passiveness and can set up on it, though they must watch out for Encore, as setup attempts can backfire if Togetic uses Encore on them.
**Phazers** Phazers, such as Steelix and Rhydon, can phaze out Togetic before it can Baton Pass Nasty Plot boosts to a teammate, though the former will take a lot from a +2 Fire Blast.
 
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Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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Usage Tips for the Defensive set are quite small, please expand out on them.

Please Beef up UT and TO under the Baton Pass set, atm they are rather small and i dont get much that isnt already obvious.

Please also beef up C&C with specific examples of situations Togetic would run into.
 

Blast

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Just c/ping this from the other thread since it looks like the skeleton was copied over:
Overview

"Somewhat unpredictable with its bulk"
  • ??? How does its bulk make it "unpredictable?" If anything its it's large movepool that gives it a lot of options to support its teammates. Even then though I'd consider it a bit of a stretch to call it unpredictable lol
  • Also, your point about "mediocre HP" implies that Togetic isn't bulky, which it is. I would replace that with a point about how Knock Off (a move it would ordinarily take) cripples it due to Eviolite
Defensive
  • Usage Tips are pretty terrible. I don't like how you're mentioning how "it can even live STAB super effective hits!!" because that gives off the idea that it actually should. Also, Togetic should rarely be switching directly into hazards given the fact that a shitton of hazard setters outright beat or at least can cripple Togetic. You need to play around with this set more and update this with a much more plausible UT because this is really bad right now.
Baton Pass
  • Again, Usage Tips are really lacking. Both points are super obvious ("boost and pass to a teammate," "don't set up against counters"). You need to give a lot more detail with this one too, since I'm really not learning anything anything from what you have atm. Expand more on how you play with it throughout the game.
  • I'm not sure if the teammates you listed are so great either. Mesprit and Samurott in particular don't seem like very good recipients to me because they're slow and don't generally need the boost since they already hit super hard (Mesprit can even run CM to boost itself, so I really don't know if it's necessary). Slurpuff on the other hand can sweep after Unburden, but it has pretty awful synergy with Togetic.
Checks and Counters
  • Archeops is a terrible example of a Knock Off user. I don't even think it runs it that often, and it has Rock STAB to obliterate Togetic. Dark-types or Fighting-types are much better examples because those are threats Togetic would otherwise have little to no trouble with
  • Add a section for just general shit that can take advantage of Togetic's weak offenses. Bulky sweepers like Gatr for example pretty much set up all over it
Alfalfa

Amarillo posted in there too so you can check the original thread if you want
 
I do not think Togetic needs 248 HP investment to hit a Stealth Rock number; Togetic's maximum HP hits 314, which, divided by 4, is 78.5, meaning it can switch into Stealth Rock five times. Does anybody oppose if I change the spreads back to 252 HP?
 

Deej Dy

Verified Ladder Scurb 乁( ◔ ౪◔)ㄏ
A few things,
- You posted "Baton Pass" above the defensive set for one thing
- Encore is a very worthy option over healbell or toxic, as it prevents togetic being setup fodder
- Why is this relevant?
"252 SpA Cryogonal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 152-182 (48.4 - 57.9%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lanturn Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 218-258 (69.6 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO"
You should never stay in vs these 2.
- Fire blast is typically a better option over dazz gleam as it is stronger and has 20% burn chance, you can put as / next to d gleam

I know there is more, but these crucial changes need to be implemented first, before more more nitpicky things
 
A few things,
- You posted "Baton Pass" above the defensive set for one thing
- Encore is a very worthy option over healbell or toxic, as it prevents togetic being setup fodder
- Why is this relevant?
"252 SpA Cryogonal Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 152-182 (48.4 - 57.9%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Lanturn Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Togetic: 218-258 (69.6 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO"
You should never stay in vs these 2.
- Fire blast is typically a better option over dazz gleam as it is stronger and has 20% burn chance, you can put as / next to d gleam

I know there is more, but these crucial changes need to be implemented first, before more more nitpicky things
I will leave Fire Blast and Encore up as possibilities, but I will let QC give their input on them before I give any additional mentions to what I already have. Everything else was fixed.
 

Kiyo

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I will leave Fire Blast and Encore up as possibilities, but I will let QC give their input on them before I give any additional mentions to what I already have. Everything else was fixed.
encore definitely deserves a slash with toxic and heal bell on the main set, it's great for catching pokemon like Feraligatr that would otherwise set up on you. I personally prefer gleam on all variants of togetic for the ability to actually hit things you wall super effectively (i.e. gurdurr) but I've seen Fire blast used to a lot of success as well. I'm fine with FB being slashed with gleam on nasty pass, but I'm skeptical about it getting a slash on defensive, a mention in moves should be fine unless someone else wants it on main.

I'll look over the rest of this when I get home.
 
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I have only skimmed over this but having used Nasti Pass Togetuc quite a bit I feel like phazers should be mentioned in C&C as they reset any boost and are by far the most reliable way of dealing with Togetic. In the BP set Flamethrower/Fire Blast should also be mentioned as the most common of them, Steelix, takes a TON of damage from those if Togetic is boosted (uninvested +2 Fire Blast always ohkos non Sdef sets and +2 flamethrower does like 85 min)
 
I have only skimmed over this but having used Nasti Pass Togetuc quite a bit I feel like phazers should be mentioned in C&C as they reset any boost and are by far the most reliable way of dealing with Togetic. In the BP set Flamethrower/Fire Blast should also be mentioned as the most common of them, Steelix, takes a TON of damage from those if Togetic is boosted (uninvested +2 Fire Blast always ohkos non Sdef sets and +2 flamethrower does like 85 min)

I was definitely thinking about phazers, and I will give it a mention.

encore definitely deserves a slash with toxic and heal bell on the main set, it's great for catching pokemon like Feraligatr that would otherwise set up on you. I personally prefer gleam on all variants of togetic for the ability to actually hit things you wall super effectively (i.e. gurdurr) but I've seen Fire blast used to a lot of success as well. I'm fine with FB being slashed with gleam on nasty pass, but I'm skeptical about it getting a slash on defensive, a mention in moves should be fine unless someone else wants it on main.

I'll look over the rest of this when I get home.
Understood
 

soulgazer

I FEEL INFINITE
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-Phazers such as Rhydon can phaze Togekiss out and stop the recipient of taking advantage of Baton Pass boosts. (teammates?)

remove that from np pass TO

**Taunt and Encore** Taunt users, such as Mismagius, can really screw up Togetic, as she relies on status moves. Encore users, such as Liepard and Accelgor, can lock Togetic into a move and make it setup fodder, though neither of these Pokemon want to switch into Togetic.

remove bold part. only talk about taunt users. mention Archeops. etc

**Fire types** Fire types, such Flareon, Magmortar, and Typhlosion resist Dazzling Gleam, and most of them can hit Togetic very hard, but all of them dislike switching into Toxic, as it can wear them down.

idgi. Do they 2HKO Togetic? if they do, thats what you need to talk about. If they only 2hko if Togetic switches on them with Stealth Rock up, mention it, etc.

add more teammates for both set

also Alfalfa Deej Dy is QC.

tag me when you did everything
 
-Phazers such as Rhydon can phaze Togekiss out and stop the recipient of taking advantage of Baton Pass boosts. (teammates?)

remove that from np pass TO

**Taunt and Encore** Taunt users, such as Mismagius, can really screw up Togetic, as she relies on status moves. Encore users, such as Liepard and Accelgor, can lock Togetic into a move and make it setup fodder, though neither of these Pokemon want to switch into Togetic.

remove bold part. only talk about taunt users. mention Archeops. etc

**Fire types** Fire types, such Flareon, Magmortar, and Typhlosion resist Dazzling Gleam, and most of them can hit Togetic very hard, but all of them dislike switching into Toxic, as it can wear them down.

idgi. Do they 2HKO Togetic? if they do, thats what you need to talk about. If they only 2hko if Togetic switches on them with Stealth Rock up, mention it, etc.

add more teammates for both set

also Alfalfa Deej Dy is QC.

tag me when you did everything
Oh lol he was QC? MY fault.

I checked it, Flareon and Magmortar 2HKO without the need of Stealth Rock, Typhlosion cannot 2HKO with its Choice Scarf set alone without needing Stealth Rock. However, I might need additional clarification if I am going to keep Fire types in C&C. I think this was from Togie's original skeleton; in my opinion it might be worth removing, since most of these FIre-types cannot directly 2HKO except for Flareon and Magmortar.

EDIT: Soulgazer is my current version are what you are looking for?
 
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soulgazer

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(ik you didn't do everything, take that as a reminder)

dont forget archeops in taunt user

more teammates (relevant ones)

specs typhlosion is more common than scarf, so if it 2hko without rocks mention it

2/3 if you do this
 
This is almost ready for its second QC check, but it really has not been at the top of my priorities of late, and I cannot expect myself to get this ready impromptu. Even if it gets a second QC approval, I really do not feel like I want to have to worry about this. Therefore, I am dropping this analysis for whoever wants to take over. I apologize that I cannot get this done; at least I got some progress done on this though.
 

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