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Tomohawk (OU Analysis)

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by Korski, May 2, 2011.

  1. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
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    Approved by Rising_Dusk

    Name: Tomohawk
    Typing: Flying / Fighting
    Stat Spread: 105 / 60 / 90 / 115 / 80 / 85
    Abilities: Intimidate / Prankster / Justified (Hidden Ability)
    Moves:
    Show Hide

    Attacking:
    Acrobatics
    Aerial Ace
    Air Slash
    Aura Sphere
    Brick Break
    Bulldoze
    Earth Power
    Earthquake
    Echoed Voice
    Facade
    False Swipe
    Fly
    Focus Blast
    Frustration
    Fury Swipes
    Giga Impact
    Grass Knot
    Heat Wave
    Hidden Power
    Hurricane
    Hyper Beam
    Hyper Voice
    Retaliate
    Return
    Rock Slide
    Rock Smash
    Rock Tomb
    Round
    Sky Drop
    SolarBeam
    Strength
    Submission
    Superpower

    Non-Attacking:
    Attract
    Baton Pass
    Bulk Up
    Confuse Ray
    Double Team
    Flash
    Fling
    Focus Energy
    Harden
    Haze
    Healing Wish
    Incinerate
    Memento
    Morning Sun
    Nature Power
    Protect
    Quash
    Rain Dance
    Rapid Spin
    Reflect
    Rest
    Roar
    Roost
    Safeguard
    Stealth Rock
    Substitute
    Sunny Day
    Swagger
    Taunt
    Thief
    Toxic
    Whirlwind
    Work Up
    Yawn

    Importable for Smogon Calc:
    Show Hide
    type1=Flying
    type2=Fighting
    ability=Intimidate
    hpBaseStat=105
    attackBaseStat=60
    defenseBaseStat=90
    spAttackBaseStat=115
    spDefenseBaseStat=80
    speedBaseStat=85


    **************************************************

    [OVERVIEW]

    <p>Competitive Pokemon’s long-awaited Flying/Fighting-typed monster has brought along with it an efficient utility tank designed with players’ in-battle momentum in mind. Tomohawk’s bulky 105/90/80 defenses, backed up by Intimidate and strong Bug, Dark, Fighting, Grass, and Ground resistances, make it a solid check to many of OU’s physical threats. But that’s not all! Tomohawk also sports one of Gen. V’s most impressive new toys, Prankster, an ability that allows it to abuse moves like Taunt, Roost, Substitute, and Baton Pass with increased priority, making it a good strategy-breaker for defensive and offensive teams alike.</p>

    <p>Where Tomohawk’s problems lie are in its unimpressive Special Defense and Speed stats. Strong Special Attackers and Pokemon looking to take advantage of its Electric, Flying, Ice, and Psychic weaknesses will most often be targeting its SpD soft-spot, meaning common threats like Latios, Thundurus, Reuniclus, and Starmie will be forcing it out more often than not. Similarly, Tomohawk’s base 85 Speed means it won’t be sweeping teams anytime soon, relegating the griffin-mon to more defensive roles. However, it is with these more tankish options that Tomohawk truly shines. Whether acting as a check to most of Sand offense, stallbreaking, or utility countering, Tomohawk can easily find a place on any team looking to build or sustain tactical advantages over opponents.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Aura Sphere
    move 2: Air Slash / Hurricane
    move 3: Roost
    move 4: Taunt / Rapid Spin / Hidden Power-Ice
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Intimidate
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 HP / 24 SpA / 232 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set utilizes Tomohawk’s bulky defensive stats and Intimidate to act as an instant buff against a swath of OU’s physical threats. Between its STAB attacks, Tomohawk can score at least a neutral hit on all of OU barring Thundurus, with notable Super Effective coverage on Ferrothorn, Tyranitar, Excadrill, Breloom, and Conkeldurr, amongst others. Roost keeps Tomohawk healthy between switches, but be careful, for while Tomohawk sheds its Electric and Ice weaknesses while Roosting, it also loses its key resistances to Fighting, Grass, and Ground attacks, something which a savvy opponent can use to his/her advantage.</p>

    <p>The choice of move in the fourth slot focuses Tomohawk’s role on the team. Taunt is an excellent option for breaking down stall teams and slower Pokemon trying to set up. Rapid Spin acts in a similar way, removing entry hazards/Leech Seed from Tomohawk, whose immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock neutrality make it very effective at doing so. However, without Taunt it has no way of bypassing common spinblockers like Jellicent and Dusclops. For this reason, Toxic Spikes are an excellent way to support Rapid Spin Tomohawk. Hidden Power-Ice makes Tomohawk a good general attacking tank, expanding its Super Effective coverage to include things like Garchomp, Gliscor, Landorus, Dragonite, and Thundurus, thus gaining neutral coverage on everything in the tier.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs are designed to allow Tomohawk to outrun any and all base 70 Pokemon like Breloom and pre-Shell Smash Cloyster, which you can OHKO with the appropriate Super Effective STAB, as well as Modest Heatran and most Gliscor, amongst others. 24 SpA EVs and a Modest nature are enough to reliably OHKO Excadrill with Aura Sphere, while 252 HP EVs maximize overall bulk.</p>

    <p>An alternative EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def and a Bold nature is defensively superior over multiple turns or in the case of an opponent switching out, while the listed spread is better at tanking an initial physical hit on the switch-in and having a general offensive presence. When using this spread, consider using Prankster over Intimidate, as it will give priority to both Roost and Taunt, making Tomohawk capable of Taunting faster stat boosters like Salamence or Infernape.</p>

    <p>This particular build does not need a ton of support to function; however, Pokemon like Salamence, Volcarona, Thundurus, and Choiced Pokemon vulnerable to entry hazards appreciate Tomohawk’s ability to soften opposing offensive teams and mess with opposing defensive teams. Additionally, Rain and Sun-based teams can take advantage of Tomohawk’s ability to check a majority of Sand-based offensive Pokemon, especially Tyranitar. Rain teams especially so, as under Rain, Tomohawk can abuse a 100% accurate STAB Hurricane.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Aura Sphere
    move 4: Taunt / Roost / Air Slash / Hurricane
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Prankster, Tomohawk makes an impressive team supporter by abusing +1 priority Baton Pass and Substitute to help its teammates out. With all of the things Tomohawk can switch into and threaten, it has little trouble throwing up a 103 HP Substitute as the opponent switches and Baton Passing it away to something that can better handle the opponent’s switch-in. This build does suffer from 4-move-slot-syndrome, though, so be prepared to get let down because of a lack of a particular move from time to time. The 4th moveslot can be used to prevent Phazing or setup with Taunt (leaving Tomohawk unable to heal up and pass more Substitutes), to heal with Roost (leaving it open to Phazing), or as a secondary STAB (no healing, no Phaze protection). Alternatively, Roost can be used over Aura Sphere alongside Taunt to turn the set into a pure Baton Pass set (leaving it susceptible to Taunt, itself).</p>

    <p>What makes the set especially effective is that the SE attacks aimed at Tomohawk are easily exploitable with the appropriate switch-in. Ground types like Garchomp can receive the Baton Pass and soak up Electric attacks, thus keeping the Sub intact. Dark-types like Tyranitar or Hydreigon can absorb Psychic attacks the same way. Steel types like Jirachi or Heatran can take resisted Psychic, Flying, and Ice attacks and most likely keep the Sub intact. Really, there are innumerable ways to abuse the priority Substitute/Baton Pass combo, especially through keeping opponents from setting up any kind of strategy of their own, as they must attack to break the Substitute or fear letting something dangerous set up on them in turn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs are the recommended build for all Prankster Tomohawk. Since Tomohawk’s list of resisted attacks lie dominantly on the Physical spectrum, it would be advantageous to invest as many EVs as possible there. Speed is not a concern here, as the primary focus of the set is to abuse +1 priority moves, which only require Speed investment against other Prankster users and would be a vastly inferior option.</p>

    <p>Tomohawk also has the boosting moves Work Up and Bulk Up to Baton Pass away if paired with good recipients like Deoxys-S (Work Up) or Machamp/Tyranitar (Bulk Up), amongst others. Excadrill, who resists the Electric, Psychic, and Flying attacks aimed at Tomohawk, is a good Bulk Up recipient, as at +1 Defense it comfortably survives even Choice Band Azumarill's Aqua Jet. In general, good teammates include anything that could use a free turn to set up or get an extra attack in, such as Terrakion, Garchomp, Calm Mind Jirachi, Shell Smash Cloyster/Gorebyss, Thundurus, etc. Really, no Pokemon suffers from a free Substitute, which is something to keep in mind when using this set.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Toxic Stall
    move 1: Toxic
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Roost
    move 4: Aura Sphere / Air Slash / Taunt
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Similar to DPPt Zapdos, Tomohawk's good bulk and Prankster make it an effective Toxic staller. The +1 priority afforded to the moves Toxic, Substitute, and Roost make Tomohawk incredibly frustrating to deal with if the opponent lacks bulky Steel-types or Gliscor. The strategy is simple enough: force a switch or come in on something that doesn’t threaten Tomohawk at all, set up a Substitute, Toxic the incoming Pokemon, and then alternate between Substitute and Roost until Toxic damage wears away the opponent.</p>

    <p>The fourth moveslot will decide which Pokemon you will need help dealing with elsewhere on the team. Aura Sphere is an excellent STAB that hits Steel-types for at least neutral damage but leaves Tomohawk open to things like Gengar, Toxicroak, Venusaur, and Swords Dance Gliscor. Air Slash can wear down these two threats, but leaves Tomohawk exposed to Jirachi, Heatran, and other Steel-types. Both leave Tomohawk open to Phazing, Calm Mind/Recover/Refresh Latias, Dragon Dance/Roost/Heal Bell Dragonite, Specially Defensive Swords Dance Scizor, and Specially Defensive Wish Jirachi, which is why Taunt can be used in the last slot. Taunt is also useful in terms of preventing opponents from recovering lost health or using Rest or Aromatherapy to heal themselves and teammates of status, but makes Tomohawk useless in the face of opposing Taunts, especially from Thundurus.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Heat Wave is an additional option for the fourth slot, hitting most Steels that are immune to Toxic for SE damage, as well as Venusaur and Dry Skin Toxicroak, and does acceptable damage to Gengar and Gliscor, but again leaves Tomohawk without a prayer against the aforementioned Phazers, Latias, and Dragonite.</p>

    <p>As is the case with any Prankster Tomohawk, priority Roost will negate Tomohawk's Ice and Electric weaknesses and give it a Rock resistance while eliminating Tomohawk's Fighting, Grass, and Ground resistances when used, so things like Starmie, LO Latios, and Virizion can power through this build with good prediction. Pairing this build with Blissey may be a smart choice to deal with those threats. Magnezone also makes a good teammate, as it can trap and eliminate most Steel-types in the Tier and resists all of Tomohawk’s Electric, Flying, Ice, and Psychic weaknesses while Tomohawk covers its Fighting and Ground weaknesses well.</p>

    [OTHER OPTIONS]

    <p>Hurricane is always an option over Air Slash, but is best used in Rain due to the accuracy boost. Beware of weather changers, though, as Hurricane's accuracy will decrease back to 70% in Sandstorm or Hail and 50% in Sunlight. Tyranitar is less of a concern as it is 4x weak to Aura Sphere, although its Flying resistance and incredible Special Defense in Sandstorm make it a good weather-changing pivot with something like Gengar or another Fighting resist. Abomasnow is weak to both of Tomohawk's STAB attacks, so it can't switch into a direct attack comfortably; however, watch out for Scarf versions that will OHKO with STAB Blizzard.</p>

    <p>In terms of team support, Reflect can be of use with priority against offensive teams or when trying to help a teammate set up. Tomohawk also has access to Stealth Rock, which it can lay down with priority. It also has both Roar and Whirlwind with which to shuffle opponents through entry hazards.</p>

    <p>Haze can be utilized with Prankster as a fail-safe against opponents who accumulate too many boosts or last-Pokemon stat-uppers that threaten to sweep. Yawn is effective at forcing switches, and Sleep is a powerful status this gen. This could also be used as insurance against stat-uppers if you have a means of neutralizing them after they've been put to sleep.</p>

    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]

    <p>Thundurus is probably Tomohawk’s biggest threat, resisting both of its STABs and shutting it down with a faster priority Taunt, threatening it with STAB Thunderbolt, or setting up Nasty Plot in its face. Offensive Rain teams, in general, threaten Tomohawk greatly, despite giving it the accuracy boost on Hurricane. Tornadus outspeeds with STAB Hurricane and resists Tomohawk's Fighting attacks. Similarly, Dragonite takes little from Tomohawk's attacks barring Hidden Power-Ice and can OHKO with Hurricane. Tomohawk will also fall prey to Thunder and boosted Surfs and Hydro Pumps hitting its lower Special Defense stat.</p>

    <p>Calm Mind Reuniclus can set up on most Tomohawk while STAB Psychic may deter Tomohawk from staying in to Taunt it. Trick Room Reuniclus can survive a hit to set up Trick Room and proceed to OHKO. Similarly, Calm Mind Latias with Recover can set up freely on Tomohawk that lack Taunt or Toxic (CM/Refresh Latias can set up on variants with Toxic).</p>

    <p>Finally, Life Orb Starmie can 2HKO Tomohawk with BoltBeam combined with Hydro Pump when dealing with Prankster sets that pack Roost. In fact, many special attackers with a strong STAB attack, especially those that also have a SE attack in their arsenal, can come out on top against the mock-griffon.</p>

    [DREAM WORLD]

    <p>Justified is in every way inferior to Intimidate and Prankster.</p>
  2. Attract

    Attract

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    How much would MixTar's ice beam to do Tankster Tomohawk?

    EDIT: Wow, i just completely blanked on the damage calcs that were done for the stats. Is there anyway you could reference them here?
  3. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    Right now I've been using a Special Attack Tomohawk with Taunt/ Roost/ Hurricane/ Aura Sphere. I've been using it in rain, which has actually been pretty interesting. Specially Defensive Scizor has been working very well, since this thing has either been on teams with either Latias or Tyranitar. Scizor also has a pretty easy time setting up on Tomohawk that lacks Taunt. It laughs at the Bulky set and is easily able to get up to +6, which I've done in several battles already.

    Of course, it is fairly early, and there aren't all too many CAP players yet, so we'll see what happens
  4. Pippy

    Pippy

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    HP Ghost could also be used over Air Slash for perfect coverage.
  5. Xiom

    Xiom

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    Only that it would just add coverage against 2 pokemon, Zapdos and Thunderus. Neither is weak to ghost and only x2 resistant to fighting so a STAB not very effective Aura Sphere is actually 2,5 B stronger then HP Ghost.

    HP ghost only have the edge over Air Slash against Ghost and Psychic. where it would be 27,5 BP higher but against everything neutral Air Slash is 42,5 BP higher.

    It could be justified to comat Oposing ghost or Psychics but not really for gaining perfect coverage when it allready got better coverage against everything bar original Rotom with Aura Sphere and Air Slash.
  6. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
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    Actually Aura Sphere has a base power of 90, so aganst those who it is NVE against, it is 90*1.5/2 which is 67.5 or 2.5 base weaker than HP Ghost, not 2.5 stronger. However, for the most part I agree with what you are saying. The only Pokemon where the neutral coverage will help are guys who are going to be beating you anyways.
  7. Sirfunchalot

    Sirfunchalot

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    Did you forget to factor in STAB, jas61292?

    No u-turn for this thing made me sad btw.

    Also Heat Wave should be an option on the Specially Defensive (Toxic Stall) set, because it super effectively hits Scizor/Jirachi/Metagross/Bronzong/Poison-Types harder than Aura Sphere does.
  8. jas61292

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    Nope, that's why I did 90*1.5/2 instead of just 90/2.

    In order for a not very effective STAB move to be more powerful than a neutral hitting non STAB move, it has to have a power greater than 4/3 of the non STAB move, which for a 70 base power move such as Hidden Power means the STAB move would need to have a base power of 94 to be more powerful. Aura Sphere is only 90.
  9. Korski

    Korski Distilled, 80 proof
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    Okay playtesting is halfway done, so I've done a little updating to the analysis after discussing things with Rising_Dusk. Here's a synopsis of the changes I've made:
    • Hurricane is now slashed in with Air Slash wherever it appears and a note is made in Other Options regarding its use in Rain.
    • The Rapid Spin set has been absorbed into the Tank set.
    • The EVs for the Prankster sets have all been standardized to 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe.
    • The sets have been reordered to reflect their effectiveness in the order of Tank, Baton Pass, and Toxic Stall.
    • The Other Options and Checks and Counters lists have been expounded upon.
    • EDIT: Fixed the EVs on the Tank set as per Deck_Knight's correction. Put the extra 3 points in SpA, although I can be convinced to put them into Spe if anyone has an argument for it.

    Please don't be afraid to make suggestions in this thread or ask questions or point out errors. This analysis will eventually go on the CAP website forever, so let's make sure it's perfect!
  10. Deck Knight

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    The EVs on the first set are inefficient.

    [SET]
    name: Tank
    move 1: Aura Sphere
    move 2: Air Slash / Hurricane
    move 3: Roost
    move 4: Taunt / Rapid Spin / Hidden Power-Ice
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Intimidate
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 120 SpA / 136 Spe

    This results in 414 HP / 296 SpA / 264 Speed.

    252 HP / 24 SpA / 232 Spe Modest Results in 414 HP / 299 SpA / 264 Speed.
    You pick up 3 more SpA (or you can invest it elsewhere).
  11. Ignus

    Ignus

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    Just a couple thoughts from playtesting Tomo:

    -212 EVs in HP will hit the magic 404, allowing for you to survive a Seismic
    Toss from Blissey without a broken sub.

    -Prankster Haze can be an invaluable addition and stop a game-ending sweep in it's tracks. Haze also does not have negative priority, sometimes giving it an edge over Whirlwind or Roar.

    ... Yup
  12. Korski

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    Okay so I've received word from the top that playtesting is "pretty much over," most likely meaning the deadline passed (twice) and the server went down and interest waned and the playtest was largely forgotten about, for the most part, so I'm posting again here to ask for any final thoughts on the current analysis before I put it to beautiful, flowing prose. Comments on EVs/Nature/move order/set order/counters/OO/etc. are encouraged here, and anyone is welcome to suggest additional sets for the analysis, although the three that are up seem pretty all-encompassing, at least to me. Maybe I'm wrong! I'll still get to writing this up in the meantime, but please contribute and make sure this analysis is as accurate as possible!
  13. Pwnemon

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    a real hard counter to Tomo is Jelly dude, given he doesn't carry Hurricane (and still good when he does.) It takes nil from Aura Sphere and not much more from Air Slash or his coverage moves, can burn with Scald and poison with Toxic while shrugging it all off with Recover.
  14. Aerodactyl Legend

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    Jellicent can be looked onto to absorb Special attacks in general, but I don't think Tomohawk is even bothered by it. Choiced Hurricane hurts, burns only affect Attack and not Special Attack, and while he is hit with Toxic, he can use Toxic and stall out with instant recovery too. Not to mention, there are other options (Taunt and Substitute for example)...

    All three current sets have some characteristic that lets him come out on top in most cases.
  15. Korski

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    Okay everyone check out the OP for the updated analysis. Edits and proofreads need to happen, so let's get to it!
  16. shampoo

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    STAB Air Slash. (:
  17. Korski

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    It's been over a week now and no one's come forward with edits, so I guess the analysis is perfect and ready for whatever comes next!
  18. Nicharveechu

    Nicharveechu

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    Correct me if I'm mistaken, but in the third set you make numerous references to Gliscor as though it was a Poison type.
  19. doominic77

    doominic77

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    It's because Gliscor's ability heals it when it is poisoned (along with Breloom).
  20. Nicharveechu

    Nicharveechu

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    And now I look like an idiot. This is what I get for not having anyone local use him.
  21. Molk

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    you know, this may be obvious but tomohawk goes on the long list of pokemon that Krillowatt counters. It has the bulk to take an aura sphere and resists hurricane, it can take advantage of any rain that may be supporting tomohawk by getting a boost on one of its STABS and can hit tomohawk with a stab super effective thunderbolt, just a note, i think krill is a better check to hawk than thundurbro. dont know if this analysis is including CAPS though
  22. smallvizier

    smallvizier

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    The CaP projects are designed for the OU metagame at the time they are created. Because of that, most of the analysis will be based on OU pokemon only.

    However there is a CaP metagame and the analyses are the most sensible place to talk about how Tomohawk fits into it. Traditionally we insert a paragraph near the end of the analysis entitled "CaP metagame" which covers this.

    In Tomohawk's case, I don't think we've actually had a chance to test it alongside the other CaP pokemon yet. It sounds like this will change soon, with Theorymon's new server. It's probably best to wait till we've got some hands-on experience to talk about how Tomohawk interacts with Krillowatt. At the same time we'd consider updating the paragraphs on the other pokemon's analyses, to mention Tomohawk.
  23. tennisace

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    I'm not sure how we want to really handle that CAP section, it depends on whether or not we end up updating the old caps or keep them separate completely (which I would rather do). Just focus on Tomohawk's OU usage.

    PS: Tomohawk is an absolute BEAST in rain, esp. because it slaps TTar/Excadrill around and basically everything that resists Hurricane gets dicked on by Aura Sphere. It should get a bit more of a mention imo, but thats neither here nor there.
  24. Molk

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    i was thinking that it would belong in the CAP metagame section, and that is where i expected it to go.

    by the way some calcs to show that krill hard counters tomo.

    24 spatck tomohawk aura sphere vs standard attacking krillowatt
    157 - 186 (35.44% - 41.99%)
    Will never 2hko due to magic guard providing immunity to entry hazards

    krillowattacker thunderbolt vs standard tomohawk
    356 - 422 (85.99% - 101.93%)
    VERY HIGH Chance to OHKO with Stealth rock.
  25. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    85.99% + 12.5% = 98.49%.

    Just saying.

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