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Gen 3 Top Tier Pokemon

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by EnvoyOfTheEnd, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. AraShaun

    AraShaun

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    Ah, see I run the (old) standard Zapdos, Skarmory, Blissey, Claydol, Dusclops, Suicune XD

    Just drafting up a sample team using Umbreon, Weezing and Cleric Celebi as a core, Im not sure what to have as the fifth member (Needs a spinner though) or the exact set for Umbreon, but its looking like

    Milotic, Celebi (Subseed), Umbreon (Toxic, Wish, Protect, Taunt), Weezing, Jirachi (CM + Wish)
  2. EnvoyOfTheEnd

    EnvoyOfTheEnd

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    I dont much play with stall teams, but I could suggest blastoise as a spinner. While hsi HP stat might not be the greatest, especially for a bulky water, he can threaten gengar with Ice beam or hydro pump/surf, still perform his dudties as a bulky water, and because you will be using a cleric, rest is a viable form of revocery.
  3. AraShaun

    AraShaun

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    It could work, however Cloyster seems like a good spinner for the team also, his defence is huge, and can also threaten Ice beam and Surf, the surprise of a spikesless Cloyster could ruin a few teams as well
  4. EnvoyOfTheEnd

    EnvoyOfTheEnd

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    thats true, he can also explode, which is never a bad thing. However he cant take special his at all, so you would have to play him relatively carefully, definently keep him away from gengar (who is apparently the most common spin blocker).
  5. AraShaun

    AraShaun

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    True, didnt think of that.
    Still, always nice to have some diversity in the meta, This thread could be a start to finding a new core or strategy, good job folks
  6. EnvoyOfTheEnd

    EnvoyOfTheEnd

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    I certainly hope it is, I'm all for diversity and thinking outside of the box. That can often times be what wins a battle.
  7. JimBob

    JimBob

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    I've always liked Claydol as a spinner. STAB Psychic hits Gengar for a lot of damage on the switch. I'm not so much of a fan of Cloyster, only use it if you want Spikes as well. Ice type is garbage for a defensive Pokemon, but at least it can switch out of Magneton.
  8. meteor64

    meteor64

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    Cloyster isn't that great in the current metagame where every Skarm and Pert has Toxic, Subcune is now a thing and Bulky Gengar is super popular. Previously Cloyster was great because-
    -It beat opposing Forry/Skarm 1 on 1
    -It 2hkoed standard builds of Gar on switch ins
    -A combination of Surf/Ice Beam and Explosion make it way harder to reliably switch into, and consequently isn't a complete sitting duck like Forretress and can sufficiently threaten a bunch of things
    -Can escape from Magneton

    However in the current meta Cloy just tends to switch in, get poisoned, blocked by a Bulkygar a few times and then wither and die to TSS. Or alternatively they reveal a Subcune and you can't do shit.
  9. HUARGH

    HUARGH

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    Umbreon learns taunt and mean look (and charm), Vaporeon doesn't.

    As for cores, most (not all) good teams consist of just Forretress. Using another spiker (which is pretty much only Cloyster and Skarmory) makes your team more rigid; i.e. if you use Skarmory, you're probably using Claydol.
  10. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    So in short, Cloyster nowadays is the Forry alternative that, instead of requiring specific HP Fire Magneton support to beat, just requires standard TSS support to beat.

    Also a lot of good teams cba about Spikes. CM spam is p good and worries more about applying quick pressure than trying to grind out a Spikes-fueled war of attrition.
  11. meteor64

    meteor64

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    I think either way, Spikes or no Spikes, all teams are very aggressive right now. If you're building a defensively oriented team you're probably gonna run into issues with things such as Gar and Mence who i think are currently dominating the meta.
  12. EnvoyOfTheEnd

    EnvoyOfTheEnd

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    Can I ask when subCune became a thing? Why was suicune with substitute not mentioned in the old analysis? Also, why are Gar and Mence dominating? Which of their sets are the most threatening/effective?
  13. meteor64

    meteor64

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    Its always existed, its just become more popular over the last 6 months or so. It wasn't mentioned before because those analyses were super old (and just not worth referring to)- those analyses were written back when the metagame was comparitively undeveloped and things like "SkarmBliss" were considered good.

    Gar and Mence are dominating because Spikes are everywhere atm. There isn't really a best set for either, just don't use something daft like SubPunch or CB Gar, or Elemence or what have you. Wishmence is good but it doesn't draw advantage from Spikes like the other sets do.
  14. EnvoyOfTheEnd

    EnvoyOfTheEnd

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    What is wrong with elemence or CB gar? Just curious, because cb gar and subpunch gar both seem like they have significant surprise factor and that alone is enough to snatch a kill, especially on something like tyranitar. I also feel like elemence can be effective, possibly if baton passed a few cm boosts or maybe an agility as well.
  15. Deluks917

    Deluks917 Ride on Shooting Star
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    I think the best pokemon in aDV are Skarmory, Tyranitar and Celebi. After that there is a big gap.

    I think metagross/Salamence are signifigantly worse then the above. They either need magnezone support or they are hard walled by one of Zapdos/Skarmory (rock slide vs a fire move). If you try to use magnezone and mag gets trapped before skarm goes down you are in big trouble. Neither can get through bulky waters by themselves. I think both pokemon are obviously good but need more team support then the truly top ADV mons.
  16. EnvoyOfTheEnd

    EnvoyOfTheEnd

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    I feel like there is no reason they cannot run rock slide as well as a fire move, specifically salamence, who could forego HP flying or earthquake. At that point its up tot he player what is more important to them, Stab or coverage.
  17. meteor64

    meteor64

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    I advise against them because they're quite simply not effective. Elemence doesn't hit any usual Mence switch ins besides Swampert hard enough to be worth it, and the only physical move Gar should ever use is Explosion, which completely outclasses Focus Punch for the purpose of removing Blissey and Lax (Gar for Bliss is totally a trade I'd make if I had something like Raikou in the wing). Physically based sets waste all of Gars major offensive qualities in exchange for a mediocre attempt at "surprise".

    1-You mean Magneton
    2-Choice Band Mence often carries both Fire Blast and Rock Slide
    3-The whole point is that you pair them so Metagross blows up their Water so Mence can sweep. Running either alone with no other plan to remove Waters is not good teambuilding. No pokemon simply sweeps by itself unless your opponent for some odd reason does not posess a plan to deal with it.
  18. EnvoyOfTheEnd

    EnvoyOfTheEnd

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    Those answers make a lot of sense, thank you.
    My next question is, how effective would a curse, mono attacking tyranitar be in this generation, once the opponents rock resist/tyranitar counter has been removed? The D/P analysis has crunch, rest, sleep talk, and curse, with a specially defensive ev spread listed. I feel like even without the special defense boost in the sand, tyranitar could effectively pull something like this off, with rock slide as a single attacking move instead of crunch, and with possibly an auxillary coverage move over sleep talk (fire blast, ice beam, crunch, equake are the first that come to mind.) He would set up against a special attacker or something that couldnt harm him much, maybe alakazam or even gengar. What would make this set more effective? And what would be its main counters, and the best way to eliminate those counters to make it easier for this tyranitar to sweep? Who would be the ideal team mates for him? I have a few ideas, however I'd like to hear some of everyone elses first.
  19. meteor64

    meteor64

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    Dragon Dance is superior. Cursetar still takes heavy damage from Dugtrio, Metagross, Heracross, etc because Rock/Dark doesn't provide him with the best defensive typing and even forgetting his crippling array of physical weaknesses he's still 2HKOed by every Water type (no sand boost, this isn't gen4 and thats ultimately why the set isn't very good), and he can't immediately threaten them with a possible Explosion. If you want a Cursing Rock then Regirock is what you want, sufficient Defense so that after a Curse most physical attacks are laughable, and can take a Surf from Suicune and such and blow up in its face.

    At any rate you'd want HP Rock over Rock Slide, no pont trying to flinch on something so pathetically slow.
  20. HUARGH

    HUARGH

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    Before anyone asks the reason you want HP Rock is because it deals - factoring in accuracy - 70 damage whereas Rock Slide deals 67.5 (70*1.0, 75*0.9). The only added benefit from rock slide is the flinch.
  21. AraShaun

    AraShaun

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    Another Small Bonus to running HP is being able to bluff what type it is.
    What are the standard TSS teams? Im assuming something like TTar, Pert, Skarmory, Blissey, Claydol and maybe gengar? Ive never faced one so Im not sure
  22. HUARGH

    HUARGH

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    ttar pert forretress / ttar pert skarmory claydol / ttar pert skarmory aero flygon zapdos
  23. meteor64

    meteor64

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    TSS without a ghost sucks hard.
  24. EnvoyOfTheEnd

    EnvoyOfTheEnd

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    Im not arguing that dragon dance is superior, it definently is, however I wasnt sure if a curse tyranitar was viable, since it sill has a great HP and special defense stat. From the looks of things its wont be particularly easy to set up with him, but im going to have to give it a shot, just to see for myself. I want to see how well it does. If it gets eaten then so be it, it was in the other options section for a reason, lol. As far as regirock goes, is he used commonly? I fought one once, and it surprised the pants off me with counter and ohkoed whatever it was I tried to hit him with.
  25. AraShaun

    AraShaun

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    What about something like TTar / Pert / Gar / Fort / Flygon / Jirachi?

    Jirachi deals with Bulky Waters, can CM to take surf better and poke at the end, and is a nice Sweeper

    Thoughts?

    EDIT: He also doesnt take SS damage which is nice, meaning we're down to 1 team member who does

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