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Tornadus (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Omicron, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. Omicron

    Omicron
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    [​IMG]

    Tornadus

    Status: QC Approved 3/3 [Bloo, PK Gaming, Delta 2777] GP Approved 2/3 [Calm Pokemaster, BMB, Wekhter]


    [Overview]
    <p>One of the genies introduced in BW, Tornadus is often overlooked at first because of its inferior typing and movepool. Although it is almost completely outclassed by Thundurus, Tornadus has access to STAB Hurricane, with which it can wreak havoc in the rain. Its pure Flying typing also grants it a good neutral STAB attack, though it also gives it weaknesses to common Electric-, Rock-, and Ice-type attacks. Tornadus's amazing offensive stats also allow it to run a mixed set with ease. Its ability, Prankster, is a massively useful tool to have, giving +1 priority to non-attacking moves such as Taunt. However, Tornadus is let down by its sub-par defensive stats, which means that it won't be taking any powerful priority attacks barring those it resists. It also has no boosting moves aside from Bulk Up, which is a shame when considering its wonderful offensive stats. Still, underestimate Tornadus at your own peril, as a Life Orb-boosted Hurricane can hurt even the bulkiest of Pokemon.</p>

    [Set]
    name: Rain Abuser
    move 1: Hurricane
    move 2: Hammer Arm
    move 3: Rain Dance / Hidden Power Ice
    move 4: Taunt / U-turn
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Naive / Hasty
    evs: 32 Atk / 224 SpA / 252 Spe

    [Set Comments]
    <p>This set takes advantage of the fact that Tornadus has access to a nice priority Rain Dance, and can wreak havoc with a perfectly accurate STAB Hurricane once rain has been set up. Hurricane does insane amounts of damage to things that don't resist it, and can even maim certain Steel-types. It also has that handy 30% chance to confuse, which may cost the opponent dearly. Hammer Arm provides amazing type coverage, OHKOing Tyranitar even without investment. Rain Dance is present for obvious reasons, and can completely halt sun teams or sandstorm teams in their tracks. If one already has Politoed for rain support, Hidden Power Ice may be used over Rain Dance to destroy certain 4x weak Pokemon. The preferred move in the last moveslot is Taunt, as it prevents status and set up; however, U-turn is a completely viable option to escape unwanted situations.</p>

    [Additional Comments]
    <p>Life Orb is the item of choice as it provides a nice power boost to Tornadus's attacks. Leftovers can be used to increase survivability, but there will be a significant decrease in the power of Tornadus's moves. An Expert Belt is an option over Life Orb to possibly bluff a Choice item, but Life Orb's power boost is usually more important against neutral targets. The EV spread is very straightforward, with maximum investment in Special Attack and Speed stats. A Naive or Hasty nature is used to maximize damage from Hammer Arm, but no Attack investment is needed to OHKO Tyranitar. Focus Blast can be used over Hammer Arm for its higher Base Power, but Hammer Arm is recommended for its better accuracy and the ability to 2HKO special walls such as Blissey. Hidden Power Ice is an option over Taunt or U-turn if Rain Dance is more important, but is generally inferior since it does less damage than Hurricane even to super effective targets, bar Landorus and Gliscor.</p>

    <p>Politoed with Drizzle is an excellent teammate to provide a 100% accurate Hurricane without the need to use Rain Dance. However, in the absence of Politoed, Tornadus can easily set up rain with Prankster. Magnezone has good synergy with Tornadus, resisting its Electric-, Ice-, and Rock-type weaknesses while Tornadus resists Fighting-type attacks and is immune to Ground-type moves. Forretress is a good candidate for setting up Toxic Spikes and other entry hazards as well as spinning away Stealth Rock which is quite detrimental to Tornadus's health, stripping 25% of its health away each time it switches in.</p>

    [Other Options]
    <p>The boosting moves that Tornadus has access to are ridiculously useless since Agility is pointless with Prankster and Tornadus's already high Speed and Tornadus is much too frail and has poor typing to take advantage of Bulk Up despite its 115 base Attack stat. Choice sets are possible, but Choice Scarf is outclassed by Thundurus and Choice Specs is unreliable unless rain is up because of Hurricane's poor accuracy. An alternative Rain Dance set as a rain supporter with Rain Dance / Taunt / U-turn / Hurricane and Damp Rock could be utilized with Prankster to help Swift Swim users such as Kingdra sweep, but Tornadus is quite frail, even with defensive investment. Tailwind is also a viable option as Prankster grants it priority, allowing Tornadus to support slower teammates. However, it is usually an inferior option as Tailwind only lasts four turns.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <p>Ironically, Thundurus, Tornadus's genie counterpart, is one of its best checks, resisting both Hurricane and Focus Blast and KOing it with STAB Thunderbolt. Even Hidden Power Ice will usually not OHKO a Thundurus at full health unless Tornadus is equipped with Choice Specs. Zapdos also resists the two moves, and is much bulkier than Thundurus. Blissey and Chansey with Eviolite counter any set lacking Hammer Arm, but must be wary of Taunt. Reuniclus takes little damage from any of Tornadus's moves bar a Life Orb-boosted Hurricane, and even then, once Reuniclus has set up a few Calm Minds, there is little Tornadus can do to destroy it. Choice Scarf users such as Landorus and Terrakion can easily revenge kill Tornadus with their powerful STAB attacks.</p>

    [Dream World]
    <p>Tornadus receives the ability Defiant from the Dream World, which raises its Attack stat sharply whenever another stat is lowered by the opponent. Overall, this is a decent ability, but is wasted on something like Tornadus, which already has access to a much better ability in the form of Prankster.</p>
  2. iDunno

    iDunno

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    I've been using this Rain Dance set for my Swift Swim teams with success. Mischievous heart taunt means it'll always get Rain Up. It's kinda like how Crobat was last gen, but better. If you wanna test it, go ahead.

    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: U-turn
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Hurricane
    Item: Damp Rock
    Nature: Timid
    Evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe (I guess, you could try a bulkier spread if you want to but I just enjoy the good offensive stats)
  3. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    Basically, this guy should always be played in Rain.

    This should be the main set right here:

    [Set]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Hurricane
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: Taunt / U-turn
    item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    This is the main set. Run him with Rain and SPAM Hurricane. Life Orb, Taunt, MH go together. U-turn, Specs, and Competitive Spirit also go together. Air Slash helps because weather battles are common. High accuracy and good flinch rate make it a good secondary reliable STAB option. Focus Blast for coverage. Taunt plus the move coverage will annoy stall quite a bit.

    This sounds like a good set. But with MH, you don't need speed at all for a set like this. Concentrate on defenses. Flying typing is not the best BUT he does have a fighting resist, so you should invest in that. 88 Speed outspeeds Lucario and most fighting pokemon. Air Slash is more reliable than Hurricane on a set like this, but Hurricane is better with Rain support obviously.

    This is gimmicky. Your boosting but no STAB move and weak base power attacks. No thanks.

    Other Options. DrizzleToed exists.
  4. ToastTyrant13

    ToastTyrant13

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    why? just...why? You would want Hurricane / HP Ice / Focus Blast if playing primarily in weather.
  5. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    I run the same set. His coverage is already nigh-perfect with Flying/Fighting, so everything outside of Hurricane and Focus Blast is basically filler. Air Slash is just a more reliable move for when you need to clean up and the weather isn't in your favor. HP Ice can go on LO if the player desires a way to hit a Zapdos just below half without being forced out (because there no way I'm gambling it otherwise), but it's still excess.
  6. Raikaria

    Raikaria

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    No. Gyarados is Flying/Water, he's hit neutral by Hurricane.

    Also, Hidden Power Ice should certainly get the shoe-in over Air Slash. Considering if you're running this guy without Hurricane, you should be using Thunderous, and even then, BP 120 and 75% accuracy is superior to Air Slash, which dosent even have perfect accuracy in itself.

    HP Ice hits Garchomp, Zapdos, Thunderous, Gliscor, Salamance, and Dragonite harder than anything else this guy gets. Considering that includes two things which resist Flying/Fighting [Rotom, Emonga and Rotom-Fan do too, but... who uses regular Rotom/Rotom-Fan/Emonga in OU?]
  7. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    HP Ice is really just for Zapdos and Boru (the latter takes a mighty hit from Hurricane anyway). Garchomp / Gliscor / Dragonite mentions are just novelty. The latter two are absolutely trainwrecked by Specs or Life Orb Hurricane, and Dragonite is too slow to take the 2 hits so he isn't switching in anyway.
  8. Omicron

    Omicron
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    ^This.
  9. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    you should mention this set:
    tornadus:max atc/max speed @ flight jewel
    bulk up
    brick break(or hammer arm)
    acrobat
    taunt or substitute
    it gets great coverage(i think that only zapdos and rotom-a resist the combination of flying+fighting and only zapdos is commonly seen on ou).
    this set can also screw blissey and ohko her with a +1 acrobat boosted by flight jewel!!!it also has great power and speed...!
  10. Lucario_Guy

    Lucario_Guy

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    ^ Thundurus says hai.
  11. Bad Ass

    Bad Ass hello ruby in the dust
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    Okay. Quite a few changes.

    a) Choice Scarf is not viable, and nor is Torment. While Tornadus has a great Special Attack and spammable STAB move, it requires Rain to be effective. Not only this, but Flying is not a good attacking type. Tornadus generally needs to be smacking everything as hard as it can with Hurricane, and Choice Scarf doesn't do this. It also doesn't have anything close to the defenses for Torment, and is outclassed badly.

    b) The first set should look like:

    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Hurricane
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Air Slash
    move 4: U-turn / Taunt
    item: Life Orb / Choice Specs
    ability: Mischievous Heart
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    Naive is useless, U-turn is only used for gaining momentum. Not to mention that Tornadus needs the special defense to take weak special attacks better. Also, space out your stuff.
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    what do you mean thundurus says hi?
    thundurus doen't get acrobat which is the biggest selling point of this set...
  13. Bloo

    Bloo
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    I'm not really a big fan of the Torment set listed in the OP. Torment is good on 'mons like Heatran, simply because Heatran has: an immunity to sandstorm, a slew of resistances, neutrality to Stealth Rock, and a great coverage move in Lava Plume as a sole attack. Tornadus, on the other hand, is hindered by Stealth Rock and sandstorm, which take a toll on its survivability. Additionally, having a Flying move as your sole attack is terrible, seeing as it has horrible coverage, leaving you defenseless versus Steel-types, among others. All in all, Tornadus is just better off straight up attacking than trying to pull of a Torment set.

    The same applies to the Choice Scarf to an extent. Stealth Rock / sandstorm will quickly take its toll on Tornadus, since it'll be switching in and out a lot if running Scarf. Again, Hurricane isn't a great move to be locked into, nor is Air Slash. They don't have great coverage and rain needs to be present in order for Hurricane to be reliable enough.

    Lastly, I agree with the edited moveset Bad Ass listed in his post (since we discussed :P). I'd personally slash in Hidden Power Ice next to Air Slash though. It does have its merit in killing Garchomp, Thundurus, etc.

    He means that Thundurus walls your entire set, since it's resistant to Acrobat and Brick Break and can KO you with super effective STAB Thunderbolt.
  14. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    There should be a Rain Dance set for Swift Swim users. Because of its Mischievous Heart and its offensive superiority to Electrode, this Pokémon is a good choice for Swift Swim Rain teams.
  15. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Why have Rain Dance when you can have Drizzle Politoed?

    Politoed fainted!
    The foe sent out Tyranitar!

    Rain Dance is worth a mention in optional changes but that's it.
  16. IcyMan28

    IcyMan28

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    Rain Dance deserves a mention in optional changes as it is a great last resort to Sand / Sun teams. Oftentimes, players will be careless with Ninetales and Tar when they see that you have no weather inducer, or when your own Politoed goes down, and their weather starter will be easily killed (I used MH Rain Dance Thundurus to good effect).

    If Tornadus isn't capable of doing anything else, tossing up a last minute Rain Dance could really help if they have something like Excadrill or Venusaur waiting in the wings, especially if they've allowed Tales / Hippo to fall. It's not like Tornadus has 4MS syndrome.
  17. Ellington

    Ellington

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    Because you can no longer have Drizzle and Swift Swim on the same team. It's a new rule that was proposed by Aldaron and got accepted.
  18. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    What does that have to do with my post!?

    Aside from that, everything looks good!
  19. RotatingAtom

    RotatingAtom

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    Another minor thing I noticed when I read the choice specs set comments:

    Of course, HP Ice covers them both, but Grass Knot hits neither Zapdos nor Thundurus for acceptable damage; You should mention Grass Knot as a secondary, more reliably option for dealing with Tyranitar, Gastrodon or Swampert (eventhough the latter two won't enjoy Hurricane).
  20. vraikou

    vraikou

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    By running Rain Dance without Politoed, you can abuse Swift Swimmers like Kingdra.
  21. jrrrrrrr

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    What exactly is that Torment set going to beat? You literally just sit there and waste your health with Substitute, while doing basically no damage to anything. What pokemon doesn't have two moves that can hit Tornadus? The only ones I can think of that don't can just heal themselves every other turn. I'd put Torment in OO, if mentioning it at all. This isn't meant to be sarcastic, I honestly want to know of one OU pokemon that set can beat.
  22. am zane ok.

    am zane ok.

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    Honestly, maybe Tormentadus is better off with another move slashed with Protect, like Focus Blast or Hammer Arm... The main problem with this guy is that he's doing little to no damage, and doesn't have good defensive typing like Heatran does. Fortunately, it's got resistance/immunity to Ground- and Fighting-type moves, which are often accompanied by a Rock-type move which can easily be priority Substituted on. I just feel that the main reason Tormentran needs Protect is because its Speed is terrible, and it cannot defend well with Substitute like Tornadus can. But then again, I'm not too familiar with the Torment strategy.

    But I agree with the statement about Speed EVs. They're not really doing Tornadus any favors, and it REALLY needs all the bulk it can get, while its Special Attack stat is high enough to still do good damage regardless of no investment.

    And wouldn't anything with Boltbeam be a counter (especially Thunderus and Zapdos)? I think it would just force Tornadus to spam Substitute and Protect's PP out (and diminish Tornadus' HP while at it), right?

    I'll state it again, though. I'm not too familiar with the Torment strategy, but on paper, I don't see much use for Protect when Tornadus has priority Substitute.

    -Zane
  23. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Substitute drains your health but it's better in the long run. You could couple it with Leftovers and an Aqua Ring pass.
  24. am zane ok.

    am zane ok.

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    That's the main problem I see with ditching Protect, but there's way too many problems that come with the lack of a coverage move. However, the way I see it, you're receiving less damage if the opponent is dead. lol.

    -Zane

    P.S. Isn't Ingrain better for this guy? 0: Still, passing these moves is pushing it. Way too dependent on team support.
  25. ParaChomp

    ParaChomp

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    Yes, Ingrain is better but only Smeargle can do that and yes it is pushing it but it's helpful in the long run. It depends if you're willing to risk it or not. Also, Substitute and Protect do mix well together in this case.

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