1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Tornadus (BW2 Revamp)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by alexwolf, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,472
    [​IMG]

    King of the hill!

    [Overview]

    <p>After Tornadus-T's ban, Tornadus got the chance to enter the spotlight of OU once again. Flying is a very good offensive type with few Pokemon that resist it in OU, and Tornadus makes excellent use of it with STAB Hurricane, base 125 Special Attack, and base 111 Speed. Most Steel-, Rock-, and Electric-types looking to tank a Hurricane can get promptly smashed by Focus Blast or Superpower, which means that walling Tornadus is not an easy feat. Furthermore, Tornadus has U-turn, a staple on special attacking sets, which lets it build up damage on its few counters and keep momentum. Tornadus can also use a physical set with Acrobatics, adding a bit to its versatility. To top it off, non-Choiced sets can put Prankster to use, which gives Tornadus many utility options, such as priority Tailwind and Rain Dance, letting it act as a crutch for its team or just take advantage of those moves by itself.</p>

    <p>Despite the positive qualities of Tornadus, don't be fooled into thinking it is a Pokemon with little flaws. A Stealth Rock weakness and general frailty are Tornadus's biggest problems, and prevent it from coming in as much as it would like, while also necessitating the use of a spinner. Due to its frailty, it can also be easily revenge killed with faster Pokemon or priority. Finally, while Tornadus has only a few counters in OU, some of them are really popular, such as Jirachi and Rotom-W, which means that Tornadus will often fail to break past defensive cores by itself and therefore requires even further support to function.</p>

    <p>So, all in all, Tornadus is very good at its job&mdash;wallbreaking and cleaning up&mdash;but it needs a lot of support to function, making it a high maintenance Pokemon that cannot be slapped on any team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hurricane
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Air Slash / Heat Wave
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Defiant
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set should always be used on rain teams, where Tornadus becomes a fearsome attacker and takes care of several Pokemon that trouble rain teams in general, such as Celebi and Amoonguss. Hurricane has perfect accuracy under rain and decimates everything that doesn't resist it not named Chansey or Blissey. Focus Blast takes care of some Pokemon that don't mind Hurricane, such as Tyranitar, Heatran, and Magnezone, and 2HKOes 252 HP Jirachi after Stealth Rock most of the time. U-turn racks up entry hazard damage on Tornadus's counters and makes trapping Jirachi, Heatran, and Tyranitar with Dugtrio a breeze. Air Slash is used to have a reliable STAB outside of rain, while Heat Wave almost OHKOes Ferrothorn in rain and 2HKOes Jirachi outside of rain.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Defiant is used so that in the case that a stat drop occurs to Tornadus (via Intimidate mainly) it can at least get a powered up U-turn, as Prankster is completely useless on this set. Hidden Power Ground can be used to OHKO offensive Heatran, OHKO 248/252+ Heatran 43.75% of the time after Stealth Rock, and do a minimum of 40% damage to specially defensive Jirachi. Sleep Talk is good if your team has trouble with Breloom and should be used with Prankster, as when Tornadus is asleep it can take advantage of a priority Sleep Talk.</p>

    <p>Politoed is a mandatory partner in order for Tornadus to spam Hurricane. Rapid Spin support is also essential, so Starmie and Tentacruel both make good teammates; furthermore, both like to be in rain, where they can beat every spinblocker. Both spinners can also deal with Heatran and Bronzong, Pokemon that check or counter Tornadus; keep in mind that Tentacruel is the best spinner for Tornadus due to its ability to simultaneously be resilient and get past any spinblocker, while Starmie has to choose one of those. Ferrothorn can use specially defensive Jirachi, Chansey, and Blissey as setup bait, handles the Ice, Electric, Water, and Rock attacks aimed at Tornadus, and can lay both Spikes and Stealth Rock, helping Tornadus do its job better. Garchomp deals with any Pokemon that can keep Tornadus in check except for Bronzong, and can lay Stealth Rock as well. Dugtrio is an excellent partner for Tornadus, as it traps and KOes most Pokemon that give Tornadus trouble, namely Tyranitar, Jirachi, Heatran, Chansey, and Blissey, and can easily come into these Pokemon via Tornadus's U-turn. Because Tornadus fears pretty much every Pokemon faster than it, a fast revenge killer pairs well with Tornadus. Choice Scarf Keldeo is the best revenge killer for rain teams and can clean up easily after Tornadus has softened the opposition.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Prankster
    move 1: Hurricane
    move 2: Focus Blast / Superpower
    move 3: U-turn / Taunt
    move 4: Tailwind / Rain Dance / Substitute
    item: Sharp Beak / Life Orb / Leftovers
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Timid / Naive
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While this set still relies on Hurricane's excellent power and neutral coverage to do damage, the item options allow Tornadus to change moves, unlike the first set, and thus better take advantage of Prankster and the interesting uses it has. As usual, the first few turns that Tornadus gets in should be used to spam Hurricane, which still hits very hard even without the Choice Specs boost, unless there are Pokemon that can take multiple Hurricanes. Focus Blast nails many of the Pokemon that resist Hurricane, such as Tyranitar, Heatran, and Magnezone, and provides excellent neutral coverage. On the other hand, Superpower gives the same coverage as Focus Blast, but with Life Orb has the benefit of 2HKOing Blissey, 2HKOing Chansey after Stealth Rock 38.67% of the time, and cleanly OHKOing 252 HP Tyranitar, as well as having perfect accuracy. Keep in mind that Superpower should only be used with Life Orb, as otherwise it is too weak to do anything that Focus Blast can't already. U-turn racks up damage on Tornadus's checks and counters, especially with the help of entry hazards, and is the best move to use when hard counters to Tornadus are on the opposing team, such as Jirachi, Rotom-W, or Bronzong. Taunt can be used over U-turn and is useful for shutting down the recovery of walls, enabling Tornadus to weaken or beat some of its best checks, namely specially defensive Skarmory and Chansey. Taunt is also useful for preventing setup from Pokemon such as Bronzong, Substitute + Calm Mind Jirachi, and Agility Thundurus-T, which could otherwise turn Tornadus into a liability.</p>

    <p>For the last slot there are three choices. Tailwind is the best option overall, as it gives to the whole team a +2 Speed boost for three turns and has priority thanks to Prankster, meaning that no matter how fast a Pokemon gets, Tornadus can sacrifice itself in order to set up a Tailwind and allow its teammates to revenge kill the dangerous sweeper. Tailwind can even let Tornadus and its teammates get a last-minute sweep against normally faster Pokemon, and turns hard hitting Pokemon such as Choice Band Kyurem-B and Choice Specs Keldeo into absolute beasts for two turns. Rain Dance allows Tornadus to better combat sand and sun teams and alleviates the constant pressure on Politoed to keep rain up; Rain Dance can also act as a last resort option against Chlorophyll and Sand Rush sweepers in their preferred weather, allowing the rest of Tornadus's team to deal with them. Finally, Substitute protects Tornadus from status, priority, and revenge killers and can scout for Choice-locked attacks, even those with priority (Choice Band Scizor). Substitute should always be used with Leftovers, as otherwise Tornadus dies too fast.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Each item pairs well with certain moves. Sharp Beak is best used with Focus Blast and Superpower should always be used with Life Orb, as the Life Orb boost does not allow Focus Blast to OHKO or 2HKO anything that it couldn't before, making the recoil unneeded, while Superpower is too weak without Life Orb to do any real damage. As with Leftovers, it should only be used when running Substitute, for reasons already explained. As for natures, Timid is the best option unless running Superpower, where Naive becomes the most beneficial.</p>

    <p>Politoed is once again a partner that Tornadus can't live without. The same goes for Rapid Spin support, so Tentacruel and Starmie are the best friends of Tornadus. Starmie fits better on offensive teams which appreciate the power that Starmie brings to the table while Tentacruel is best used in balanced and defensive teams due to its great longevity. Entry hazard support is also a good idea to allow Tornadus to wear down its counters faster with U-turn and also allow it to get a bunch of OHKOs and 2HKOs. Ferrothorn, Celebi, and Garchomp can set up Stealth Rock (and Spikes in Ferrothorn's case) and switch into many of the Pokemon that scare Tornadus out, such as Keldeo, Thundurus-T, Jolteon, Jirachi, and Rotom-W. Toxic Spikes greatly aid sets with Substitute to get past Chansey and Blissey, and can be provided by Tentacruel. Dugtrio can trap and eliminate Tyranitar, Jirachi, and Heatran, and can come in safely via Tornadus's U-turn, while also helping in weather wars, making for a great partner. Lastly, a hard hitting partner to take advantage of Tailwind is a good idea. Choice Specs Keldeo and Choice Band Garchomp both have good defensive synergy with Tornadus and are very difficult to wall.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Acrobatics
    move 1: Acrobatics
    move 2: Superpower
    move 3: Bulk Up / Taunt
    move 4: Tailwind / Bulk Up
    item: Flying Gem
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Tornadus has a good base 115 Attack and a strong physical STAB in Acrobatics, which allow it to be used outside of rain with a physical set. Flying Gem-boosted Acroabatics is almost as powerful as Terrakion's Life Orb Close Combat, OHKOing many offensive Pokemon with ease. Furthermore, Acrobatics transforms Tornadus into a very good Chansey and Blissey lure, as the first is 2HKOed by a combination of Flying Gem Acrobatics and Superpower after Stealth Rock while the latter is easily 2HKOed by any attacking move of Tornadus. Superpower provides good neutral coverage with Acrobatics and lets Tornadus OHKO any Tyranitar, 2HKO 248/0 Heatran after Stealth Rock, and deal with Chansey and Blissey by the ways already mentioned. Bulk Up makes Tornadus harder to revenge kill with priority and physical Choice Scarf users and makes Tornadus harder to wall, giving it some much-needed utility against balanced and stall teams. On the other hand, Taunt provides a way to prevent setup of any kind and stops Baton Pass chains cold, negating any Speed boosts thanks to Prankster, while also allowing Tornadus to weaken or get past certain Pokemon that rely on recovery to deal with it, such as Hippowdon and Skarmory. In the last slot, Tailwind is an excellent option that benefits from Prankster and makes Tornadus a useful crutch for its team under dangerous situations, allowing your team to deal with any speedy sweeper that can get past your team's defense; it can also allow Tornadus to do some late-game cleaning against very weakened offensive teams. Bulk Up is mentioned after Tailwind because it is a viable option if Tornadus has opted for Taunt in the third slot. Taunt + Bulk Up turns Tornadus into a potent stallbreaker that can get past defensive Pokemon such as Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Hippowdon much more reliably than with Taunt alone.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Heat Wave is an excellent choice in the third or fourth slot to lure and beat many Steel-types that feel confident switching in after Acrobatics has been revealed. Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forretress are all 2HKOed after Stealth Rock by any combination of Tornadus's moves that involves Heat Wave, while even 252 HP Jirachi can be 2HKOed by Heat Wave with Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes. U-turn can be used in the last two slots for better switch initiative and is useful on teams that use a lot of entry hazards to rack up damage on Tornadus's counters. Substitute offers status protection, shields Tornadus from priority and revenge killers, and allows Tornadus to scout Choice-locked moves and stall for Life Orb damage; be careful, as Substitute and Stealth Rock damage can add up very fast, and avoid using this move when Tornadus's counters are still alive. Brick Break should only be used on sets that use Bulk Up, as it still gives Tornadus much-needed Fighting coverage but doesn't put to waste Bulk Up's hard-earned boosts. However, Brick Break's power is quite low and fails to do any significant damage even to Pokemon weak to it without a boost, so only use it if you plan on using Tornadus as a boosting sweeper.</p>

    <p>The best teammates for this set are hard hitters that can take advantage of Tailwind and outspeed everything up to Timid Venusaur under sun, as well as Pokemon that benefit from the weakening or elimination of Pokemon that Tornadus lures. Choice Band Garchomp, Choice Band Terrakion, Life Orb Keldeo, and Life Orb Starmie are all powerful Pokemon that enjoy not having to worry about Blissey, Chansey, Hippowdon, and Skarmory, and can put the two turns that Tailwind lasts to great use. Teammates to weaken Steel-types that resist Acrobatics, mainly Jirachi, Skarmory, and Bronzong, are very helpful. Magnezone can trap and KO all of them, Fire Blast Garchomp can lure and weaken them, and Swords Dance Haxorus can just muscle past them. Finally, Rapid Spin support is nice to have but not mandatory, as Tornadus is not meant to come in multiple times or take many hits anyway. Starmie is the best option for offensive teams.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With a Choice Scarf equipped, Tornadus outspeeds every single unboosted threat in OU, as well as all common Choice Scarf users. However, unlike most other Choice Scarf users, Tornadus has a nasty Stealth Rock weakness, lacks power, and has trouble switching into anything even remotely offensive because of its frailty. A pure support set with Rain Dance and Damp Rock can be used on dedicated Rain Dance teams to allow Swift Swim Pokemon to wreck havoc. Torment can be used on any non-Choiced set to mess with Choice item users, as after they land a hit or KO something Tornadus can force them to use Struggle with priority Torment. When running this move it is advised to use Protect or Substitute alongside it to better deal with Choice item users. Hidden Power Ice is an option to hit Zapdos, Thundurus-T, and Dragonite harder than any other move, while Grass Knot deals with Hippowdon without the need to gamble on Hurricane's 70% accuracy in sand and hits Gastrodon harder than anything else.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Most bulky Steel-types that resist Hurricane and are neutral to Fighting are good counters. Jirachi, Metagross, and Bronzong are all such Pokemon, with Jirachi being the best due to its reliable recovery. Specially defensive variants of Rotom-W and Zapdos are good short-term counters but may fail to wall Tornadus multiple times, the first due to lack of reliable recovery, and the latter because of its weakness to Stealth Rock and Tornadus's access to U-turn. Chansey and Blissey wall the Choice Specs set, but they both detest Superpower from the second set, which 2HKOes the former with Life Orb and the latter without it, and they outright lose to the third set. Specially defensive Heatran and any Tyranitar are good checks to the Choice Specs set, as they can easily tank multiple Hurricanes but must be careful to not get hit by Focus Blast, which 2HKOes the former and OHKOes the latter; Tyranitar has the added benefit of trapping Tornadus with Pursuit. Jolteon and Choice Scarf Thundurus-T can take a hit from Tornadus, outspeed, and OHKO it, so they can be used as one-time checks. Any faster Pokemon and priority users can usually OHKO Tornadus after Stealth Rock, except for weak Pokemon such as defensive Starmie and Stone Edge-less Dugtrio. Finally, taking away rain makes Tornadus much more manageable, as Hurricane's accuracy drops to 50% or 70% depeding on the weather, making it a very risky move to use.</p>
  2. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,623
    Alright, so while you're doing the WIP, you might want to mention Grass Knot for knocking out out Hippowdon amongst other bulky Ground- and Water-types, and Sleep Talk so Tornadus can take the usual Spore or Sleep Powder aimed at Politoed and friends. Also, Hidden Power Ice isn't necessarily for Zapdos; it can KO Thundurus-T if you have trouble laying out hazards beforehand, and hits Dragonite without having to dance around with sets that invest in bulk. Outside of that, good work, and keep working.

    EDIT: oh for the love of-
  3. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,472
    Thx AG, added!

    EDIT: Also unfortunately
  4. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Please remove Substitute on Tornadus's Prankster set - it's seriously a terrible option for it. The only reason one would use a Prankster set is for its priority Taunt, Tailwind, and Rain Dance. Thus, slash Rain Dance > Substitute

    AC mention HP Ground to hit Jirachi / Heatran / Electric-types for super-effective damage without relying on Focus Miss.

    As for the Acrobatics set, I never really found myself much opportunities to set up Bulk Up. Just like the Prankster set, I think it's more useful for its immediately threatening Acrobatics and Prankster Taunt / Tailwind. I would change the move order to this:

    move 1: Acrobatics
    move 2: Superpower
    move 3: Taunt
    move 4: Tailwind / U-turn / Bulk up
  5. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent Yeah, well. The Dude abides
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,039
    Shouldn't the specs set have defiant as the ability? I mean at least you can power up your u-turn with it, as opposed to being completely useless like prankster
  6. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,266
    Yeah, Tailwind is definitely the best move on the Acrobatics set. I don't know how many times I've won against something like a +2 / +2 Salamence using Outrage by priority Tailwinding with Tornadus, then sending in Latios to sweep the rest of their team and stuff like that. I'd make Taunt compulsory too, IMO, since you can actually Taunt something like Hippowdon and Acrobat the crap out of it. Remove Substitute, since it does absolutely nothing apart from fishing for Stone Edge misses lol.

    Another thing would be to slash Rain Dance on Life Orb set. It's an excellent way to stick the finger in the face of a sun team, especially if you've lost Politoed. The opponent would generally quite flippant with their Ninetales after they see Politoed die, so as soon as they sac their Ninetales (which is likely), send in Tornadus for the priority Rain Dance and laugh at them.
  7. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,472
    Thx guys added everything. I left U-turn after Bulk Up in the Acrobatics set though, as i think Bulk up is better. I can still change it if someone provides some good reasoning, but for now i leave it as that.
  8. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    Ugh remove Substitute from the Prankster set

    ALso there's no reason to use Brick Break on Acrobatics when it gets Superpower now. Remove this as well
  9. Kidogo

    Kidogo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    462
    Just want to say that substitute is actually one of tornadus's best options imo. I made an RMT in the early torny-t era using substitute tornadus-i, and seriously it is so incredible. Substitute is p awesome on him anyway since he 2HKOs the majority of the meta with hurricane/fblast so a single mispredict = a kill, and it blocks toxic heatran while in rain SpD heatran fails to break torny's subs with lava plume 98% of the time with the spread I had (20HP timid), meaning you get past one of your premier counters easily. IMO the moveset options should be hurricane / fblast / two of Substitute , tailwind, and taunt.

    Also, shouldn't brick break be mentioned as an other option? Superpower will generally be better, but if your goal is to straight-out sweep teams then the Atk drops will really hurt. Like how most SD scizor run superpower, but more defensively played ones prefer brick break. Superpower is definitely better though, no question about it.
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,472
    Moved Brick Break to the AC of the Acrobatics set but kept Sub in the main Tailwind set because of the reasons that Kidogo mentioned.
  11. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    At the VERY LEAST make Substitute the third slash, since 1) Leftovers is the 3rd item and 2) Rain Dance > Substitute when you consider opposing weather teams being a common occurrence
  12. Jukain

    Jukain fuck redew
    is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,788
    The Prankster set is a mess so imo split it into Sharp Beak and LO. As it is now, you're explaining two entirely different items on that set (plus Leftovers). They don't play that differently, but the set as it is is just super slashy and a mess. I propose the following:

    [SET]
    name: Substitute
    move 1: Hurricane
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Taunt / U-turn
    move 4: Substitute
    item: Sharp Beak / Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Hurricane
    move 2: Superpower
    move 3: U-turn / Rain Dance
    move 4: Tailwind / Rain Dance
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    You can play around with the options however you want but the sets should probably be split.
  13. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    167
    I'd like to enforce this! Specifically on the Specs set. And then slash Prankster as the ability, since priority Specs Hurricanes are something to fear. Tornadus-T was good sleep fodder because of Regenerator, but Tornadus-I is able to get past basically every priority move in the game with Prankster + Sleep Talk. You don't have to worry about opposing Brelooms setting up Swords Dances as long as you're asleep, which is a nice thing to have. Scizor, Donphan, Mamoswine, and specific Scarfers/revenge killers then, in turn, fear Tornadus's priority move(s).
  14. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    8,580
    rofl wow priority Sleep Talk Specs Hurricane! who would've thought :0
  15. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,472
    Mentioned Sleep Talk + Prankster on the Specs set. Fleshed out the AC of the special sets a bit and mentioned specific partners. So far i don't see any objections with the Prankster set, so maybe this is ready for QC checks?
  16. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,900
    change set "prankster" to set "kevinemesis"

    and then i shall say yes this is QUALITY
    [​IMG]
    QC Approved (1/3)
  17. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2011
    Messages:
    167
    AC under Specs says Sleep Talk + Defiant
  18. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,472
    Fixed and thx Lavos!
  19. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,623
    [​IMG]

    QC Approved 2/3

    A personal request of mine is to give an emphasized mention to Heat Wave + Acrobatics Tornadus, since I've found that many players tend to switch in their physically defensive Steel-types (Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory) without a second thought after Tornadus reveals it's using Acrobatics. In this instance, Heat Wave is viable over Taunt. Also, it would be good to mention that Tailwind partners must be able to at least outrun Timid 180 Spe Chlorophyll Venusaur, if not max Speed Sawsbuck, since Tailwind is used primarily for beating Chlorophyll users to the punch.

    Other than that, fill (by that I mean write) 'im up, boys.
  20. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,472
    Thx AG i will finish this as soon as i can!
  21. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,472
    This is finally written, sorry it took me so long...
  22. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2012
    Messages:
    2,900
    12:52 alexwolf so is anyone gonna give to Tornadus tis 3rd QC check?

    okay

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved (3/3)
  23. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Have you ever used scarf tornadus ? Is not bad
  24. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Messages:
    6,472
    Scarf Tornadus is viable, but not good enough for a main set.
  25. cbt

    cbt subtle body
    is a Pokemon Researcher
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,383
    Amateur check

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>After Tornadus-T's ban, Tornadus got the chance to enter the spotlight of OU once again. Flying is a very good offensive type, with few Pokemon that resist it in OU, and Tornadus makes excellent use of it with STAB Hurricane, 125 Special Attack, and 111 Speed. Most Steel-, Rock-, and Electric types looking to tank a Hurricane can get promptly smashed by Focus Blast or Superpower, which means that walling Tornadus is not an easy feat. Furthermore, Tornadus has U-turn, a staple on special attacking sets, which lets it build up damage on its few counters and keep momentum. Tornadus can also use a physical set with Acrobatics, adding a bit to its versatility. To top it off, non-cChoiced sets can put to use Prankster to use which gives Tornadus many utility options, such as priority Tailwind and Rain Dance, letting it act as a crutch for its team or just take advantage of those moves by itself.</p>

    <p>Despite the positive qualities of Tornadus, don't be fooled into thinking it is a Pokemon with little flaws. A Stealth Rock weakness and frailty are Tornadus's biggest problems and prevent it from coming in as much as it would like, while also necessitating the use of a spinner. Due to its frailty, it can also be easily revenge killed with either faster Pokemon or priority. Finally, while Tornadus has only a few counters in OU, some of them are really popular, such as Jirachi and Rotom-W, which means that Tornadus will often fail to break past defensive cores by itself, requiring even further support to function.</p>

    <p>So, all in all, Tornadus is a very good Pokemon at its job, wallbreaking and cleaning up, but needs a lot of support to function, making it a high maintenance Pokemon that cannot be slapped on any team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hurricane
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Air Slash / Heat Wave
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Defiant
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set should always be used on rain teams, where Tornadus becomes a fearsome attacker while taking care of several Pokemon that trouble rain teams in general, such as Celebi and Amoonguss. Hurricane has perfect accuracy under rain and decimates everything that doesn't resist it and isn't named Chansey or Blissey. Focus Blast takes care of some Pokemon that don't mind Hurricane, such as Tyranitar, Heatran, and Magnezone, and 2HKOes 252 HP Jirachi after Stealth Rock most of the time. U-turn racks up entry hazard damage on Tornadus's counters and makes trapping Jirachi, Heatran, and Tyranitar with Dugtrio a breeze. Air Slash is used to have a reliable STAB outside of rain, while Heat Wave almost OHKOes Ferrothorn in rain and 2HKOes Jirachi outside of rain.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Defiant is used in the case that a stat drop occurs to Tornadus (via Intimidate mainly) it can at least get a powered up U-turn, as Prankster is completely useless on this set. Hidden Power Ground can be used to OHKO offensive Heatran, OHKO 248/252+ Heatran 43.75% of the time after Stealth Rock, and do a minimum of 40% damage to specially defensive Jirachi. Sleep Talk is good if your team has trouble with Breloom and should be used with Prankster, as when Tornadus is asleep it can take advantage of priority Sleep Talk.</p>

    <p>Politoed is a mandatory partner in order for Tornadus to spam Hurricane. Rapid Spin support is also essential, so Starmie and Tentacruel both make for good teammates and both like to be in rain where they can beat every spinblocker. Both spinners can also deal with Heatran and Bronzong, Pokemon that check or counter Tornadus; keep in mind that Tentacruel is the best spinner for Tornadus due to its ability to be both resilient and able to get past any spinblocker, while Starmie has to chose one of those. Ferrothorn can use specially defensive Jirachi, Chansey, and Blissey as setup bait, handles the Ice, Electric, Water, and Rock attacks aimed at Tornadus, and can lay both Spikes and Stealth Rock, helping Tornadus do its job better. Garchomp deals with any Pokemon that can keep Tornadus in check, except for Bronzong, and can lay Stealth Rock as well. Dugtrio is an excellent partner for Tornadus, as it traps and KOs most Pokemon that give Tornadus trouble, namely Tyranitar, Jirachi, Heatran, Chansey, and Blissey, while it can easily come into these Pokemon via Tornadus's U-turn. Because Tornadus fears pretty much every Pokemon faster than it, a fast revenge killer pairs well with Tornadus. Choice Scarf Keldeo is the best revenge killer for rain teams and can clean up easily, after Tornadus has softened the opposition.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Prankster
    move 1: Hurricane
    move 2: Focus Blast / Superpower
    move 3: U-turn / Taunt
    move 4: Tailwind / Rain Dance / Substitute
    item: Sharp Beak / Life Orb / Leftovers
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Timid / Naive
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While this set still relies on Hurricane's excellent power and neutral coverage to do damage, the item options allow Tornadus to change moves, unlike the first set, and thus better take advantage of the ability Prankster and the various interesting uses it has. As usually, the first few turns that Tornadus gets in all it should be used to is spam Hurricane, which still hits very hard even without the Choice Specs Bboost, unless there are Pokemon that can tanke multiple Hurricanes. Focus Blast nails many of the Pokemon that resist Hurricane, such as Tyranitar, Heatran, and Magnezone, and provides excellent neutral coverage when paired with Hurricane. On the other hand, Superpower gives the same coverage as Focus Blast, but with Life Orb has the benefit of 2HKOing Blissey, 2HKOing Chansey after Stealth Rock 38.67% of the time, and clearnly OHKOing 252 HP Tyranitar, as well as having perfect accuracy. Keep in mind that Superpower should only be used with Life Orb, as otherwise it is too weak to do anything that Focus Blast can't already. U-turn racks up damage on Tornadus's checks and counters, especially with the help of entry hazards, and is the best move to use when hard counters to Tornadus are in the opposing team, such as Jirachi, Rotom-W, and Bronzong. Taunt can be used over U-turn and is useful for shutting down the recovery of walls, enabling Tornadus to weaken or beat some of its best checks, namely specially defensive Skarmory and Chansey. Taunt is also useful for preventing setup from Pokemon such as Bronzong, Substitute + Calm Mind Jirachi, and Agility Thundurus-T, which could otherwise turn Tornadus into a liability.</p>

    <p>For the last slot there are three choices. Tailwind is the best option overall, as it gives to the whole team a +2 Speed boost for three turns and has priority thanks to Prankster, meaning that no matter how fast a Pokemon gets, Tornadus can sacrifice itself in order to set up a Tailwind and allow its teammates to revenge kill the dangerous sweeper. Tailwind can even let Tornaduds and its teammates get a last minute sweep against normally faster Pokemon, and turns hard hitting Pokemon such as Choice Band Kyurem-B and Choice Specs Keldeo into absolute beasts for two turns. Rain Dance allows Tornadus to better combat sand and sun teams and alleviates Politoed from the constant pressure of keeping rain up; Rain Dance can also act as last resort against Chlorophyll sweepers under sun and Sand Rush sweepers under sand, taking away their preferred weather and allowing the rest of Tornadus's team to deal with them. Finally, Substitute protects Tornadus from status, priority, and revenge killers, and can scout for cChoice -locked attacks, even those with priority (Choice Band Scizor). Substitute should always be used with Leftovers, as otherwise Tornadus dies too fast.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Each item pairs goodwell with certain moves. Sharp Beak is best used with Focus Blast and Superpower should always be used with Life Orb, as the Life Orb boost does not allow Focus Blast to OHKO or 2HKO anything that it couldn't before, making the recoil unneeded, while Superpower is too weak without Life Orb to do any real damage. As with Leftovers, it should only be used when running Substitute, for reasons already explained. As for natures, Timid is the best option unless runing Superpower, where Naive becomes the most beneficial nature.</p>

    <p>Politoed is once again a partner that Tornadus can't live without. The same goes for rRapid sSpin support, so Tentacruel and Starmie are the best friends of Tornadus. Starmie fits better on offensive teams which appreciate the power that Starmie brings to the table, while Tentacruel is betterst used in balanced and defensive teams, due to its great longevity. Entry hazards support is also a good idea to allow Tornadus to wear its counters faster with U-turn and also allow it to get a bunch of OHKOes and 2HKOes. Ferrothorn, Celebi, and Garchomp can set up Stealth Rock and Spikes in Ferrothorn's case and switch into many of the Pokemon that scare Tornadus out such as Keldeo, Thundurus-T, Jolteon, Jirachi, and Rotom-W. Toxic Spikes greatly aid sets with Substitute to get past Chansey and Blissey, so useand they can be provided by Tentacruel. Dugtrio can trap and eliminate Tyranitar, Jirachi, and Heatran, and can come in safely via Tornadus's U-turn, while also helping in the weather wars, making for a great partner. Lastly, a hard hitting partner to take advantage of Tailwind is a good idea. Choice Specs Keldeo and Choice Band Garchomp both have good defensive synergy with Tornadus and are very difficult to wall.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Acrobatics
    move 1: Acrobatics
    move 2: Superpower
    move 3: Bulk Up / Taunt
    move 4: Tailwind / Bulk Up
    item: Flying Gem
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Tornadus has a good 115 Attack and a strong physical STAB in Acrobatics, which allow it to be used outside of rain and make a physical set a viable option. Flying Gem-boosted Acroabatics is almost as powerful as Terrakion's Life Orb Close Combat, OHKOing many offensive Pokemon with ease. Furthermore, Acrobatics transforms Tornadus into a very good Chansey and Blissey lure, as the first is 2HKOed by a combination of Flying Gem Acrobatics and Superpower after Stealth Rock, while the latter is easily 2HKOed by any offensive move of Tornadus. Superpower provides good neutral coverage with Acrobatics and lets Tornadus OHKO any Tyranitar, 2HKO 248/0 Heatran after Stealth Rock, and deal with Chansey and Blissey by the way already mentioned. Bulk Up makes Tornadus harder to revenge kill with priority and physical Choice Scarf users and makes Tornadus harder to wall, giving it some much needed utility against balanced and stall teams. On the other hand, Taunt gives it a way to prevent setup of any kind and stops cold Baton Pass chains, negating any Speed boosts thanks to Prankster, while also allowing Tornadus to weaken or get past certain Pokemon that rely on recovery to deal with it, such as Hippowdon and Skarmory. In the last slot, Tailwind is an excellent option that benefits from Prankster and makes Tornadus a useful crutch for its team under dangerous situations, allowing your team to deal with any speedy sweeper that can get past your team's defense; it can also allow Tornadus to do some late game cleaning against very weakened offensive teams. Bulk Up is mentioned after Tailwind because it is a viable option if Tornadus has opted for Taunt in the third slot. Taunt + Bulk Up turns Tornadus into a potent stallbreaker that can get past defensive Pokemon such as Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Hippowdon much more reliably than with Taunt alone.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Heat Wave is an excellent choice in the third or fourth slot, to lure and beat many Steel-types that feel confident switching in after Acrobatics has been reavealed. Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forretress are all 2HKOed after Stealth Rock by any combination of Tornadus's moves that involves Heat Wave, while even 252 HP Jirachi can be 2HKOed by Heat Wave with Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes. U-turn can be used in the last two slots for better switch initiative and is useful on teams that use a lot of entry hazards, to rack up damage on Tornadus's counters. Substitute offers status protection, shields Tornadus from priority and revenge killers, and allows Tornadus to scout cChoice-locked moves and stall for Life Orb damage; be careful though, as Substitute and Stealth Rock damage can add up very fast, and avoid using this move when Tornadus's counters are still alive. Brick Break should only be used on sets that use Bulk Up, as it still gives Tornadus the much needed Fighting coverage, but unlike Superpower it doesn't put to waste Bulk Up's hard earned boosts. However, Brick Break's power is quite low and fails to do any significant damage even to Pokemon weak to it without a boost, so only use it if you plan on using Tornadus as a boosting sweeper.</p>

    <p>The best teammates for this set are hard hitters that can take advantage of Tailwind and outspeed everything up to Timid Venusaur under sun, as well as Pokemon that benefit from the weakening or elimination of Pokemon that Tornadus lures. Choice Band Garchomp, Choice Band Terrakion, Life Orb Keldeo, and Life Orb Starmie are all powerful Pokemon that enjoy not having to worry about Blissey, Chansey, Hippowdon, and Skarmory, and can put the two turns that Tailwind lasts to great use. Teammates to weaken Steel-types that resist Acrobatics, mainly Jirachi, Skarmory, and Bronzong, are very helpful. Magnezone can trap and KO all of them, Fire Blast Garchomp can lure and weaken them, and Swords Dance Haxorus can just muscle past them. Finally, Rapid Spin support is nice to have but not mandatory, as Tornadus is not meant to come in multiple times or take many hits anyway. Starmie is the best option for offensive teams.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With a Choice Scarf equipped, Tornadus outspeeds every single unboosted threat in OU, as well as all common Choice Scarf users. However, unlike other Choice Scarf users, Tornadus has a nasty Stealth Rock weakness, lacks power, and is very frail to switch into anything even remotely offensive. A pure support set with Rain Dance and Damp Rock can be used on dedicated Rain Dance teams to allow Swift Swim Pokemon to wreck havoc. Torment can be used on any non-cChoiced set to mess with Choice item users, as after they land a hit or KO something, Tornadus can force them to use Struggle with priority Torment. When running this move it is advicsed to use Protect or Substitute alongside it, to better deal with Choice item users. Hidden Power Ice is an option to hit Zapdos, Thundurus-T, and Dragonite harder than any other move does, while Grass Knot deals with Hippowdon without the need to gamble on Hurricane's 70% accuracy in sand and hits Gastrodon harder than anything else.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Most bulky Steel-types that resist Hurricane and are neutral to Fighting moves are good counters. Jirachi, Metagross, and Bronzong are all such Pokemon with Jirachi being the most reliable due to having reliable recovery. Specially defensive variants of Rotom-W and Zapdos are good short-term counters, but may fail to wall Tornadus multiple times, the first due to lack of reliable recovery, and the latter because of its weakness to Stealth Rock and Tornadus's access to U-turn. Chansey and Blissey wall the Choice Specs set, but they both detest Superpower from the second set, which 2HKOes the firstormer with Life Orb, and 2HKOes the latter without it, and they outright lose to the third set. Specially defensive Heatran and any Tyranitar are good checks to the Choice Specs set, as they can easily tank multiple Hurricanes but must be careful to not get hit by Focus Blast, which 2HKOes the firstormer and OHKOes the latter; Tyranitar has the added benefit of trapping Tornadus with Pursuit. Jolteon and Choice Scarf Thundurus-T can take a hit from Tornadus, outspeed and OHKO it, so they can be used as one time checks. Any faster Pokemon and priority users can usually OHKO Tornadus after Stealth Rock, except for weak Pokemon such as defensive Starmie and Stone Edge-less Dugtrio. Finally, taking away rain makes Tornadus much more manageable, as Hurricane's accuracy drops to 50% or 70% depeding on the weather, making it a very risky move to use.</p>

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)