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Tornadus (Revamp)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by lucariojr, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. lucariojr

    lucariojr quell the storm and ride the thundurus
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    taken over from sprocket, i'll have to read over it and move stuff around later :)

    [pimg]671[/pimg]

    [dex=tornadus]Like a boss[/dex]

    <p>At first glance, Tornadus's Incarnate forme appears to be outclassed by its Therian form, as Tornadus-T has better bulk and higher Speed. However, normal Tornadus has access to the incredibly useful Prankster and Defiant abilities, as well as better Attack and Special Attack stats. Even though it's slower than its Therian forme, Tornadus still has a blistering fast base 111 Speed and can outpace most of the metagame. Furthermore, access to an incredibly powerful STAB Acrobatics allows Tornadus to deal major damage to any Pokemon that doesn't resist it.</p>

    <p>Tornadus didn't get much love after the VGC 2011 season ended. Intimidate's popularity took off, Tyranitar and Metagross were (and still are) everywhere, and because of its one-dimensional coverage, which consisted of Acrobatics and... Acrobatics, a lot of teams could easily handle Tornadus without going out of their way. However, with the release of its Dream World ability, Defiant, and the addition of Superpower to its movepool courtesy of BW2, Tornadus found its way into more teams. While it still has issues with old foes, Tornadus remains as a great pick to offset the influx of Intimidate spam goodstuffs, or just Fighting-types in general.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defiant Acrobat
    move 1: Acrobatics
    move 2: Superpower / U-turn
    move 3: Taunt / Tailwind / Substitute
    move 4: Protect
    item: Flying Gem
    ability: Defiant
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Behold the majesty of Defiant Tornadus. This set boasts a whopping 165 Base Power STAB move, utility with Taunt and Tailwind, and of course the very real possibility that Tornadus will receive an Attack boost without having to do anything thanks to the popularity of Intimidate. Superpower picks up Acrobatics's slack, nailing troublesome Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Heatran, and Bisharp, though it is interesting to note that a Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics hits Pokemon such as Rotom-W just as hard as a neutral Superpower would. If the Attack and Defense drops seem too risky, U-turn is perhaps a safer option. U-turn still hurts Tyranitar, softening it up for a more capable teammate to take care of it, and keeps Tornadus safe until the coast is clear and it can continue to fire off Acrobatics.</p>

    <p>Taunt is a mainstay from its 2011 Prankster set, especially with Cresselia running around everywhere using annoying moves such as Swagger and Thunder Wave. It is also a good way to halt Trick Room setup with a little help from a Fake Out user. Tailwind is another move you might recognize. The boost it provides to Tornadus and its teammates' Speed allows them to go toe-to-toe with Swift Swim, Sand Rush, or Choice Scarf Pokemon, even if only for three turns. However, Tailwind is still, and always will be, a risky play for Tornadus as long as Trick Room and Thunder Wave remain popular, so as always, use it in moderation. Substitute is slightly less useful without Prankster backing it up, but since Tornadus outspeeds all of its threats bar Choice Scarf users and the surprisingly uncommon max Speed Thundurus, Substitute is a great move that can block troublesome Will-O-Wisps, Sucker Punches, and weakened Draco Meteors. Protect is a staple for Defiant Tornadus because the most common Intimidate Pokemon &mdash;Hitmontop and Scrafty&mdash; also carry Fake Out, which can leave Tornadus wide open and vulnerable to Rock Slides or Thunderbolts.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Jolly nature and max Speed allow Tornadus to outspeed many common threats, most notably Latios, Terrakion, and Garchomp. This makes it easy for Tornadus to fire a Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics without having to worry about getting hit first. Slightly bulkier spreads could be an option, but dropping even one Speed point or too much Attack power means Tornadus either Speed ties with Latios or misses out on OHKOing it, respectively.</p>

    <p>This Tornadus functions best as a no-frills physical attacker, and appreciates support from its partners to deal with bulkier Pokemon that can sponge Acrobatics. Terrakion can use Rock Slide, Close Combat, and Earthquake to take care of many Rock-, Electric-, and Steel-types that give Tornadus trouble. Slower partners, such as Tyranitar and Metagross, appreciate Tailwind support and can provide chip damage via Sand Stream and Bullet Punch, respectively. Cresselia is an excellent partner for using Helping Hand and providing chip damage and Speed control with Icy Wind, and has access to Trick Room to reverse an opponent's Trick Room, or perhaps use it to outspeed your opponent should the situation present itself.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Prankster Acrobat
    move 1: Acrobatics
    move 2: Tailwind / Superpower
    move 3: Tailwind / Taunt / Substitute
    move 4: Protect / Substitute
    item: Flying Gem
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The new Defiant Tornadus might be more popular than the old Prankster Tornadus, but Prankster is by no means outclassed; in fact, against teams without Intimidate, Prankster Tornadus is arguably more useful. Priority Tailwind is useful for turning the tables on Swift Swim and Choice Scarf Pokemon and turning lumbering tanks into Speed demons. Priority Taunt is also a great move to have in the unfortunate event that Trick Room is set up and Amoonguss is threatening to Spore your entire team. It also shuts down most Cresselia, although they'll still threaten Tornadus if they have Ice Beam and Special Attack investment. Substitute can be a makeshift Protect because of priority and has the potential to linger for more than one turn, should the opponent not attack Tornadus, and also acts as a nice barrier against status moves such as Thunder Wave and Spore. However, Tornadus's Substitutes can't take more than one attack most of the time, and spread moves such as Rock Slide allow the opponent to break the Substitute without having to predict; in such cases, Protect is the superior and safer option. Acrobatics is here for obvious reasons and Superpower can round out its coverage. An offensive Prankster (pun intended) is certainly viable, though it would be best to make use of Tailwind in this case.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Much like the Defiant set, Tornadus works best with the listed EV spread. Unlike the Defiant set, however, Prankster Tornadus can viably use a slightly different Adamant spread because of Tailwind. However, it requires a massive amount of investment to survive heavy hits such as Choice Scarf Landorus-T's Stone Edge or various Draco Meteors, so if you drop Jolly for Adamant, the initial spread would probably be best.</p>

    <p>Tornadus pairs especially well with Fake Out users such as Hitmontop and Scrafty, who provide windows to set up Tailwind. Sweepers that appreciate Tailwind support, such as Zapdos, Thundurus, Tyranitar, and Metagross, also pair well with Tornadus. Terrakion can use Rock Slide, Close Combat, and Earthquake to take care of many Rock-, Electric-, and Steel-types that give Tornadus trouble.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Tornadus is strapped for physical Fighting-type moves, with the only other options being Hammer Arm and Brick Break. Brick Break can help out against Light Screen Cresselia and doesn't lower your stats, but is laughably weak, being unable to OHKO Chople Berry-less Tyranitar. Hammer Arm is stronger and might seem appealing to "counter" Trick Room, but is generally a bad idea, especially since max Speed Tornadus will often need to use it twice before it's actually slower than anything on a Trick Room team. Crunch is another interesting option, as it hits the ever-present Psychic-types super effectively, but isn't worth it unless you're keen on preserving your Flying Gem, because Acrobatics will hit harder than a super effective Crunch. Other supportive moves, or more accurately moves that receive the Prankster boost, include Swagger, Rain Dance and Role Play. Swagger boosts your teammates's Attack with no side effects if they're holding a Lum or Persim Berry, or are protected by Safeguard. It also functions defensively to spread confusion to your opponent, potentially preventing huge Draco Meteors or annoying Thunder Waves from landing. Rain Dance is useful for setting up rain should your Politoed suffer a premature demise, and could be used in conjunction with Hurricane. In a similar vein to Skill Swap, Role Play allows Tornadus to copy your partner's or the opponent's Intimidate, Storm Drain, Lightningrod, Sand Stream, and for the adventurous, Contrary abilities. The main reason this isn't terribly useful is because of how situational it can be, requiring the right opponent should you lack partners with said abilities, and the fact that it doesn't transfer abilities like Skill Swap does, (for instance, you can't remove opposing Gastrodon's Storm Drain to hit its partner with a Water-type move) making it less versatile than Skill Swap.</p>

    <p>Tornadus has a much better special movepool compared to its physical, as well as a higher Special Attack. The reason none of those are used however, is because special Tornadus is largely outclassed by its brothers, Thundurus-T and Landorus as well as other Pokemon such as Zapdos, Rotom-W, and Cresselia because of either bulk and access to Speed control or more reliable, higher Base Power moves such as Thunderbolt and Earth Power. Special Tornadus can be used to great effect, however, as long as you keep supportive moves on it and take advantage of Prankster.</p>

    <p>Unfortunately, while Tornadus has a myriad of usable special moves, the vast majority of them don't exceed 80 Base Power. These moves are Dark Pulse, Hidden Power, Heat Wave, Grass Knot, and Icy Wind. Heat Wave is a useful spread move, considering how Tornadus hates Steel- and Ice-types, but is still weak due to the 25% power drop when hitting two Pokemon. Grass Knot can surpass 80 Base Power on Tyranitar and Terrakion, though it can't OHKO Tyranitar and has little utility outside of that. Dark Pulse isn't used for the same reason as Crunch, but in this case, it can cause timely flinches and is stronger than Air Slash when hitting super effectively. The most useful Hidden Power would probably be Ice, but it suffers from being woefully weak. Icy Wind is useful for Speed control as it trips Yache Berries and still does a reasonable amount of damage, though it doesn't get a Prankster boost while Tailwind does and accomplishes mostly the same thing, albeit only for three turns. Tornadus's most powerful special attacks, Hurricane and Focus Blast, would rocket special Tornadus to the top of its sets in terms of usage if either one was more accurate than 70% in any weather. Hurricane is still a useful option for rain teams, but again, it is outclassed by Thundurus there and rain can be cancelled in the blink of an eye with Abomasnow and Tyranitar. Air Slash is therefore the most reliable STAB, but it suffers from a horrendous 75 Base Power, which isn't enough to OHKO things it's supposed to, such as Hitmontop, though it does have a 30% flinch chance working in its favor.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Like any other Flying-type, Pokemon that resist its STAB moves and threaten it with super effective STAB moves of their own are Tornadus's natural predators. Zapdos, bulky Thundurus, and Rotom-W (as well as every other Rotom except Rotom-C) spring to mind, as the only thing that Tornadus can threaten the former two with is the rare Hidden Power Ice, and even with minimal defensive investment, it misses out on the OHKO. Tornadus can only hope for a critical hit with Superpower, should it be unfortunate enough to be left alone against a Rotom forme. Tyranitar with Chople Berry is another great check to Tornadus, as it isn't as afraid of Superpower as Dark Gem or Passho Berry variants are, and resists Acrobatics. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can straight-up outspeed Tornadus and threaten it with Rock Slide, although Jolly Tyranitar's Rock Slide misses out on OHKOing Tornadus at full health without Sand Stream damage or Helping Hand support, and Adamant Tyranitar only has a 50/50 shot at OHKOing it, which aren't exactly betting odds. Metagross can switch in on the first Acrobatics with ease, making Tornadus easier to deal with for the rest of the match, and can use Ice Punch or a simple Meteor Mash to bring it down to Bullet Punch range, or even Feint range should you have another Pokemon with it. Lastly, Tornadus hates getting burned or paralyzed; Sableye is especially good at burning Defiant variants, which are easy to pick out if you pay attention to the Pok&eacute; Ball it was released from, but it has to be wary of Prankster Tornadus that use Taunt. Cresselia is the prime user of Thunder Wave, and has the option of using Ice Beam to nail cheeky Tornadus that think they can get away with simply Taunting a Cresselia. Cresselia also has the option of using Icy Wind, which can't be blocked by Taunt and can deal around 20% to Tornadus, making it easy pickings for the aforementioned Tyranitar. It should be noted, however, that by slowing Defiant Tornadus with Icy Wind, you risk an incredibly powerful Acrobatics next turn, so make sure you're able to KO it afterwards.</p>

    skeletons (open)
    [​IMG]


    no but seriously (open)
    -Flying Gem Acrobatics for high damage, OHKOing common Pokemon such as Latios, Chandelure, Hitmontop.
    -Superpower deals high damage, OHKOing some of Tornadus's former counters such as Tyranitar, Bisharp and severely damaging many more, though each use weakens Tornadus's Attack and Defense stats.
    -Tailwind doubles the speed of your team for three turns
    -Taunt shuts down Pokemon that rely on support moves, such as Amoonguss, Ferrothorn, and Trick Room users.


    -Flying Gem Acrobatics for high damage, OHKOing common Pokemon such as Latios, Chandelure, Hitmontop.
    -Tailwind doubles the speed of your team for three turns
    -Superpower deals high damage, OHKOing some of Tornadus's former counters such as Tyranitar, Bisharp and severely damaging many more, though each use weakens Tornadus's Attack and Defense stats.
    -Taunt shuts down Pokemon that rely on support moves, such as Amoonguss, Ferrothorn, and Trick Room users.

    -Hammer Arm, which helps on Trick Room teams, though Superpower deals more raw damage
    -Crunch hits cress for super effective damage but acrobatics does more and doesn't give terrakion a boost
    -Rain Dance for rain teams to keep rain up. probably best to use this in tandem with hurricane and to not use it as your main source of rain (obviously)
    -Brick Break is a cool physical fighting move with no drawbacks but its hella weak
    -Swagger cos its fuckin swagger, dude. tornadus doesnt have room for it though even on prankster sets, so thund-i does it better unfortunately
    -Role Play lets tornadus eat thunderbolts from thund-t, reinstate weather, copy intimidates and swift swim, and for the adventurous contrary+superpower. unfortunately it's no skill swap so you cant instantly give cress the potential to be god-tier annoying or take away storm drain from gastrodon, which would be very good reasons to use it.

    -special sets largely outclassed by thundurus-t in rain and physical tornadus. this is mostly because you either have to rely on 70% accurate hurricane or weak air slash for STAB and there aren't many other moves that make it past the 80 BP benchmark (heat wave is like 75 BP in doubs) except for grass knot against stuff like tyranitar (which doesn't ohko)

    -Dark Pulse for hitting bulky Ghost and Psychic types like Chandelure, Cresselia, Jellicent
    -Focus Blast can be used to muscle past Tyranitar, Terrakion, and Abomasnow, but the 70% accuracy can be off-putting.
    -Grass Knot decimates Gastrodon and Swampert. (which is already accomplished by acrobatics)
    -Heat Wave is an interesting option for spread damage, but generally other Pokemon can use Heat Wave better.
    -Icy Wind deals minor spread damage and reduces speed of your opponents, it can be used instead of Tailwind if desired.
    -Hidden Power Ice can be used to hit Zapdos, Thundurus, and Thundurus-T, who otherwise wall Tornadus


    special tornadus (open)
    [SET]
    name: Rain Dance Support
    move 1: Rain Dance
    move 2: Hurricane
    move 3: Taunt / Tailwind
    move 4: Protect / Substitute
    item: Charti Berry / Yache Berry / Focus Sash
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]

    -Rain dance is for setting Rain without the use of Politoed, or re-setting Rain should Politoed lose the weather wars. It is a bad idea to lead with Politoed unless the opposing team doesn't have a weather starter.
    -Under rain, Hurricane has 100% accuracy
    -Strongest Hurricane in the game, deals major damage to anything that doesn't resist

    -Taunt prevents opponents from using support moves such as Protect
    -Tailwind can be used instead to boost your team's speed, and help your rain team to outspeed opposing rain teams
    -Protect is protect, allowing you to scout attacks and prevent Tornadus from receiving damage
    -Substitute can be used to prevent status, stall out Trick Room, and act as a buffer to launch high damage attacks. Thanks to Prankster, Tornadus is almost always guaranteed to get Substitute up when used, and requires a double-target or multi-hit move to guarantee getting through it.

    [TEAM OPTIONS AND ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    Timid nature w/ max speed allows Tornadus to outspeed many common threats. A Modest nature with 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe EVs trades speed for bulk. Charti Berry is the preferred item for surviving a Tyranitar Rock Slide, while Yache Berry will help survive a strong Ice attack such as Blizzard. A Focus Sash can also be used to guarantee Tornadus survives at least one attack, but must beware weather damage from a Sandstorm or Hailstorm.

    This Tornadus works best on a rain team, and pairs well with Pokemon that appreciate rain. Tornadus appreciates Fake Out support from Pokemon such as Toxicroak and Ludicolo; while they use Fake Out, Tornadus can safely summon rain with Rain Dance, and attempt a sweep on the next turn with Hurricane. Water-type Pokemon such as Kingdra can take care of problem Rock-types that give this Tornadus trouble, such as Terrakion and Tyranitar. Additionally ground-types like Gastrodon, Mamoswine, and Garchomp can muscle their way through most electric-types that can handle Hurricane, such as Zapdos, Thundurus, and most Rotom formes. Tailwind greatly benefits your whole team, allowing slower Pokemon such as Politoed and Toxicroak to outspeed many opponents.


    i have honestly never seen a special tornadus besides mine on gbu, and it's pretty much outclassed by thundurus-t on rain teams. probs gonna move this down to oo along with all of its neato special moves.
  2. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    It lasts three turns excluding the turn that you set up Tailwind.

    Regarding Foul Play in OO, generally you'd be using it on Psychic and Ghost-types who all have a lower Attack stat than Tornadus given its high base 115 Attack, so you'd probably be better off using Crunch, even with a (-)ve nature.

    For the Acrobatics set

    x2 Crunch deals 160 base damage, STAB Acrobatics has 165 base damage. I would only mention Crunch in OO.

    With Defiant, you could go one to say that Tornadus outspeeds and OHKOes the most common users of Intimidate (Hitmontop, Salamence, Gyarados) and more (Krookodile, Scrafty (which I expect to become more common next year)) after Intimidate (leading to +1 Attack) even if you've used up your Flight Gem.

    You should also slash Substitute with Taunt, making the option of Substitute + Protect together in the Acrobatics set. It's very helpful for stalling out Trick Room whilst providing the benefits of both Protect and Substitute on one set. It was used commonly in Nationals and Words during VGC 2011. This should obviously only be done with Prankster.

    I agree with you about splitting the Defiant and Prankster sets. As you said, they play differently, which merits the split. Defiant is an anti-Intimidate Pokemon with less focus on team support, Prankster focuses more on team support.
  3. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

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    Excellent points Darkmalice, and I agree completely.

    Defiant set will be separated from Prankster Acrobatics, as it functions mainly as an anti-Intimidate attacker. I'll slash Taunt and Substitute on both sets, as even without Prankster, Tornadus has a blistering fast base-111 speed to work with.

    Crunch will be moved to OO, as the combo Acrobatics + Superpower hits pretty much everything sans Zapdos and Thundurus for neutral damage, and no physical attack can exceed the damage of STAB Acrobatics for Tornadus (resists and weaknesses excluded). Foul Play will be dropped from OO, as the targets that are viable to hit with it have low Attack stat anyway, and you'd be better off with Crunch.
  4. lucariojr

    lucariojr quell the storm and ride the thundurus
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    bumping for second opinions n junk
  5. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    I feel like there should be a mention of a bulky Tornadus spread like the ones used in 2011 that could live other Acrobatics and KO back without taking the risk of a Speed tie. The issue with it in this metagame is that it loses out on its great Speed letting so many more threats outspeed you and KO. It's really up to you to include, but other than that this looks good.

    [qc]1/3[/qc]
  6. Anas2k7

    Anas2k7

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    252Atk Flight Gem lvl 50 Tornadus (Neutral) Acrobatics vs 252HP/0Def Flash Fire lvl 50 Chandelure (Neutral): 84% - 99% (141 - 166 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
  7. Biosci

    Biosci !
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    He's talking about 4 HP Chandelure, but that should definitely be specified. Thanks for the heads up
  8. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    If you're going to remove the rain support set, you could mention the options of Rain Dance and Hurricane in the AC of the Prankster set. Hurricane is a better STAB than Acrobatics if you're using the set on a rain team, and the set is viable on rain teams as strong Flying-STAB is really good for removing certain notable threats to rain teams like Amoonguss and Toxicroak. Hurricane and Rain Dance don't have to be used together though. Acrobatics has its perks over Hurricane like if rain isn't up and because Gem Hurricane only has a 31.25% chance to OHKO Latios. Similarly, rain team may elect not to use Rain Dance support. If you feel they're not AC worthy, then they should be mentioned in OO at least.
  9. callforjudgement

    callforjudgement

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    I got a long way up ladder using Tornadus for rain support, but eventually swapped it out for Crobat. It basically had only two problems, but they were quite major: a) too weak to Fake Out, b) needs a Focus Sash to have a reasonable chance at setup (= you have to run the unreliable Hurricane over the reliable Acrobatics; Hurricane's unreliable because you can't rely on rain being up when you want to use it).

    I don't think the rain support set is outclassed; it's faster support than Crobat, due to Prankster, and it doesn't suffer from being outsped by your team-mates like Crobat often does. The +1 speed tie with Thundurus is also valuable. It's just the Fake Out issues that cripple it so badly, and there's not so much you can do to fix that with your partner.
  10. breh

    breh
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    Role play deserves some mention:

    Copy intimidates
    Copy teammate drizzle to redrizzle (kind of like rain dance but isn't useless when you don't need it)
    Copy Flash Fire from heatran to take <Fire move>; same goes for chandelure to a lesser extent (though you don't really want to fuck with it too much).
    Copy teammate Gastrodon Storm Drain and have gastrodon use surf or scald on the same turn (best used vs. double protect)
    Copy teammate Lightningrod / Volt Absorb, eat Discharge
    Copy opponent Thundurus-T Volt Absorb

    It's fun to screw around with and there's a lot of silly potential applications.
  11. R Inanimate

    R Inanimate Grasp the earth, Grasp the World.
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    Looks like it covers everything of relevance for Tornadus.

    [​IMG]
    QC Approved 2/3
  12. macle

    macle ribbit
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    QC Approved 3/3

    too lazy for images
  13. Tobes

    Tobes Woo-hoo, woo-hoo, woo-hoo-hoo!
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    There are a lot of double spaces in this so be sure to go back and fix those. Watch out for run-on sentences and verb tenses shifting mid-sentence next time; otherwise good work.

    [GP]1/2[/GP]
  14. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    Amcheck :)
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    I have a question about the <p> tags, did you just forget to implement them, or do VGC analysis not use them at all? If it's the latter, please ignore all the <p> tags I implemented in my check.

    [Overview]

    <p>At first glance, Tornadus's Incarnate forme appears at first glance to be outclassed by its Therian form, as Tornadus-Therian has better bulk and higher Speed. However, Tornadus-Incarnate has access to the incredibly useful Prankster ability, as well as better Attack and Special Attack stats. Even with less Speedough it's slower than its Therian forme, IncaTornate formdus still has a blistering fast 111 base Speed and can outpace most of the metagame. AFurthermore, access to an incredibly powerful STAB Acrobatics allows Tornadus to deal major damage to any Pokemon that doesn't resist it.</p>

    <p>Tornadus didn't get much love after the VGC11 season was over. Intimidate's popularity took off, Tyranitar and Metagross were (and still are) everywhere, and because of its one-dimensional coverage which consisted of Acrobatics and... Acrobatics, a lot of teams could easily handle Tornadus without going out of their way. However, with the release of its Dream World ability, Defiant, and the addition of Superpower to its movepool courtesy of BW2, Tornadus found its way into more teams. While it still has issues with its old foes, Tornadus remains as a great pick to offset the influx of Intimidate spam goodstuffs, or just Fighting-types in general.</p>

    Nothing too big in the Overview, just some choppy writing. Also, please use either Tornadus or Tornadus-I (not recommended unless comparing to its other forme) and Tornadus-T, you don't need to say their forme names here.

    [SET]
    name: Defiant Acrobatics This set name just sounds weird, so I recommend replacing it with "Defiant"
    move 1: Acrobatics
    move 2: Superpower / U-turn
    move 3: Taunt / Tailwind / Substitute
    move 4: Protect
    item: Flying Gem
    ability: Defiant
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Behold the majestyight of Defiant Tornadus. This set boasts a whopping 165 Base Power STAB move, utility with Taunt and Tailwind, and of course the very real possibility that Tornadus will receive an Attack boost without having to do anything thanks to the popularity of Intimidate.
    Remove
    Line
    Superpower picks up Acrobatics's slack, nailing troublesome Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Heatran, and Bisharp, though it is interesting to note that a Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics hits Pokemon, such as 252max HP Rotom-W just as hard as a neutral Superpower would. If the Attack and Defense drops seems too risky, U-turn is perhaps a safer option. U-turn still hurts Tyranitar, softening it up for a more capable teammate to take care of it, and keeps Tornadus safe in the back until the coast is clear and it can continue to fire off Acrobatics.</p> Connect these paragraphs, it fits better that way imo.

    <p>Taunt is a mainstay from its Prankster set from 2011, especially with all the Cresselia running around throwing aroundeverywhere using annoying moves such as Swagger and Thunder Wave. It is also a good way to halt Trick Room setup with a little help from a Fake Out user. Tailwind is another move you may recognize, boosting Tornadus and its teammates' s Speed, allowing you to go toe-to-toe with Swift Swim, Sand Rush or Choice Scarf Pokemon, even if only for 3 turns. However, Tailwind is still, (AC) and always will be, (AC) a risky play for Tornadus as long as Trick Room and Thunder Wave remain popular, however, so as always use it in moderation. Substitute is slightly less useful without Prankster backing it up, but since Tornadus outspeeds all of its threats, (AC) bar Choice Scarf users and the surprisingly scarce max Speed Thundurus-I, Substitute is a great move that can block troublesome Will-O-Wisps, Sucker Punches, and weakened Draco Meteors. Protect is a staple for Defiant Tornadus because the most common Intimidate Pokemon (&mdash;Hitmontop and Scrafty)&mdash; (First time using &mdash;, hopefully I used it right.) also carry Fake Out, which can leave Tornadus wide open and vulnerable to Rock Slides or Thunderbolts.</p>

    Nothing much here either, you just need to be careful about the way you word things.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Jolly nature and max Speed allow Tornadus to outspeed many common threats;, (AC) most notably Latios, Terrakion, and Garchomp. This makes it easy for Tornadus to fire a Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics without having to worry about getting hit first. Slightly bulkier spreads could be an option, but dropping even one Speed point or too much Attack power means you either Speed tie with Latios or miss out on OHKOing the very same Latios.it, respectively.</p>

    <p>This Tornadus functions best as a no-(remove hyphen, add space)frills physical attacker, and appreciates support from its partners to deal with bulkier Pokemon that can withstand Acrobatics. Terrakion can use Rock Slide, Close Combat, and Earthquake to take care of many Rock-, Electric-, and Steel-types that give Tornadus trouble. Slower partners, (AC) such as Tyranitar and Metagross, (AC) appreciate Tailwind support and can provide chip damage via Sand Stream and Bullet Punch, respectively. Cresselia is an excellent partner for using Helping Hand and providing chipsome extra damage and sSpeed control with Icy Wind, and has(space)access to Trick Room to reverse an opponent's Trick Room, or perhaps use it to outspeed your opponent should the situation prequiresent itself.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Prankster Acrobatics Same as above, just change it to "Prankster".
    move 1: Acrobatics
    move 2: Tailwind / Superpower
    move 3: Tailwind / Taunt / Substitute
    move 4: Protect / Substitute
    item: Flying Gem
    ability: Prankster
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The new Defiant Tornadus may be more popular than the old Prankster Tornadus, but Prankster is by no means outclassed. I; (semi) in fact, against teams without Intimidate, Prankster Tornadus is arguably more useful. Priority Tailwind is useful for turning the tables on Swift Swim orand Choice Scarf Pokemon and of course turning lumbering tanks into sSpeed demons. Priority Taunt is also a great move to have in the unfortunate event that Trick Room is set up and Amoonguss is threatening to Spore your entire team. It of coursealso shuts down most Cresselia, although they'll still threaten Tornadus if they have Ice Beam and Special Attack investment. Substitute can be a makeshift Protect because of priority and has the potential to linger for more than one turn, (AC) should the opponent not attack Tornadus, and acts as a nice buffarrier (buffer would be used when mentioning boosts, a Substitute is more of a barrier) against status move such as Thunder Wave and Spore. However, Substitute can't last against more than one attack most of the time, and spread moves such as Rock Slide allow the opponent to break the Substitute without having to predict. I; (semi) in such cases, Protect is the superior and safer option. Acrobatics is here for obvious reasons and Superpower can round out its coverage. An offensive Prankster (pun intended) is certainly viable, though it would be best to make use of Tailwind in this case.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    Similar to<p>Much like the Defiant set, Tornadus works best with a Jolly max Spethe listed and AttackEV spread. Unlike the Defiant set however, Prankster Tornadus can viably use a slightly different Adamant spread because of Tailwind. However, it requires a massive amount of investment to survive heavy hits such as Scarf Landorus-T'(ASCII Apostrophe) s Stone Edge or various Draco Meteors, so if you drop Jolly for Adamant, the initial spread would probably be best.</p>

    <p>Tornadus pairs especially well with Fake Out users such as Hitmontop and Scrafty, who provide windows to set up Tailwind. Sweepers that appreciate Tailwind support such as Zapdos, Thundurus, Tyranitar, and Metagross also pair well with Tornadus. Terrakion can use Rock Slide, Close Combat, and Earthquake to take care of many Rock-(hyphen), Electric-(hyphen), and Steel-types that give Tornadus trouble.</p>

    When mentioning multiple types in a row, you would always hyphenate each type, and then place a comma.

    [Other Options]

    <p>Tornadus is strapped for physical Fighting-type moves, with the only other options being Hammer Arm and Brick Break. Brick Break can help out against Light Screen Cresselia and doesn't lower your stats, but is laughably weak, being unable to OHKO Chople Berry-less Tyranitar. Hammer Arm is stronger and may seem appealing to "counter" Trick Room, but is in generally a bad idea, especially since max Speed Tornadus will often need to use it twice before it's actually underspeedsslower than anything on a Trick Room team. Crunch is another interesting option, (AC) asince it hits the ever-present Psychic-types super effectively, but isn't worth it unless you're keen on preserving your Flying Gem, because Acrobatics will hit harder than a super effective Crunch. OTornadus also has access to other supportive moves, or more accurately moves that receive the Prankster boost, includesuch as Swagger, Rain Dance and Role Play, and they all have priority thanks to Prankster. Swagger boosts your teammates's Attack with no side effects if they're holding a Lum or Persim Berry, or are protected by Safeguard. It also functions defensively to spread confusion to your opponent, potentially preventing huge Draco Meteors or annoying Thunder Waves from hittlanding. Rain Dance is useful for resetting rain should your Politoed suffer a premature demise, and could be used in conjunction with Hurricane. In a similar vein to Skill Swap, Role Play allows Tornadus to copy your partners'(apostrophe)s or opponent'(apostrophe)s' Intimidate, Storm Drain, Lightningrod, Sand Stream, and for the adventurous, Contrary abilities. The main reason this isn't terribly useful however is because of how situational it can be, requiring the right opponent should you lack partners with abusableid abilities, and the fact that it doesn't transfer abilities like Skill Swap does, (for instance you can't remove opposing Gastrodon's Storm Drain to hit its partner with a Water-type move) making it less versatile than Skill Swap a better option.</p>

    <p>Tornadus has a lot more useableuch better special movespool compared to its physical movepool, as well as a higher Special Attack. The reason none of these useful movese are used however, is because Sspecial Tornadus is largely outclassed by its brothers, Thundurus-T, Landorus-I and other Pokemon such as Zapdos, Rotom-W, and Cresselia because of either bulk and access to Speed control or more reliable, higher Base Power moves such as Thunderbolt and Earth Power. Special Tornadus can be used to great effect, however, as long as you keep supportive moves on it and take advantage of Prankster.</p>

    <p>Unfortunately, while Tornadus has a myriad of Susable special moves, the vast majority of them don't exceed 80 Base Power. These moves are Dark Pulse, Hidden Power, Heat Wave, Grass Knot, and Icy Wind. Heat Wave is a useful spread move, considering how Tornadus hates Steel- and Ice-types, but is still weak due to the 25% power drop when hitting two Pokemon. Grass Knot can surpass 80 base power on Tyranitar and Terrakion, though it can't OHKO Tyranitar and has little utility outside of that. Dark Pulse isn't used for the same reason as Crunch, but in this case, it can cause timely flinches and is stronger than Air Slash when hitting super effectively. The most useful Hidden Power would probably be Ice, but it suffers from being woefulhorridly weak ("horridly" seems like a better word choice for me, but it's you call). Icy Wind is useful for Speed control as it trips Yache Berries and still does a reasonable amounts of damage, though it doesn't get a Prankster boost while Tailwind does and accomplishes mostly the same thing, albeit only for 3 turns. Tornadus's most powerful Sspecial attacks, Hurricane and Focus Blast, (AC) would rocket special Tornadus to the top of its sets in terms of usage if either one wereas more accurate than 70% in allny weathers. Hurricane is still a useful option for rain teams, but again, (AC) it is outclassed by Thundurus there and rain can be cancelled in the blink of an eye with Abomasnow and Tyranitar. Air Slash is therefore the most reliable STAB, but it suffers from a horrendous 75 Base Power, which isn't enough to OHKO things it's supposed to such as Hitmontop, though it does have a 30% flinch chance working in its favor.</p>

    Once again, wording was really the only problem. And remember, the term "special" isn't capitalized unless it's the first word in a sentence, you're mentioning the stat "Special" from RBY, or you're mentioning the "Special Attack" stat, you weren't doing either of these when capitalizing it (except in one part where "special" was the first word in a sentence).

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Like any other Flying-type, Pokemon that resist its STAB moves and threaten it with super-(remove hyphen(space)effective STAB moves of their own are Tornadus's natural predators. Zapdos, bulky Thundurus-I, and Rotom-W (as well as every other Rotom except Rotom-Cut) spring to mind, as the only thing that Tornadus can threaten the former two with is the rare Hidden Power Ice, and even with minimal investment, it misses out on the OHKOing even against minimal defensive investment..(space)Tornadus can only hope for a critical hit with Superpower,(AC), should it be unfortunate enough to be left alone against a Rotom forme. Tyranitar with Chople Berry is another great check forto Tornadus, as it isn't as afraid of Superpower as Dark Gem or Passho Berry variants are, (AC) and resists Acrobatics. Choice Scarf Tyranitar can straight-up outspeed Tornadus and threaten it with Rock Slide, although Jolly Tyranitar's Rock Slide misses out on OHKOing Tornadus at full-(remove hyphen(space)health Tornadus without prior damage or Helping Hand support, and Adamant Tyranitar only has a 50/50 shot at OHKOing it, which aren't exactly betting odds. Metagross can switch in on the first Acrobatics with ease, making Tornadus easier to deal with for the rest of the match, and can use Ice Punch or a simple Meteor Mash to bring it down to Bullet Punch range, or even Feint range should you have another Pokemon with it. Lastly, Tornadus hates getting burned or paralyzed; Sableye is especially good at burning Defiant variants, which are easy to pick out if you pay attention to the Pok&eacute;ball it was released from, but it has to be wary of Prankster Tornadus that use Taunt. Cresselia is the prime user of Thunder Wave, and has the option of using Ice Beam to nail cheeky Tornadus that think they can get away with simply Taunting a Cresselia. Cresselia also has the option of using Icy Wind, which can't be blocked by Taunt and can deal around 20% to Tornadus, making it easy pickings for the aforementioned Tyranitar.</p>

    Sorry if I was being too subjective throughout my check, if you feel that way, feel free to reword my suggestions, although make sure they make sense.


    Good job on this, the comments can be found inside my amcheck ^_^
  15. lucariojr

    lucariojr quell the storm and ride the thundurus
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Changes made, and here's some of the uh, subjective cases that I didn't change:

    Other supportive moves, or more accurately moves that receive the Prankster boost-- used because stuff like incinerate and icy wind exist and are viable.

    it doesn't transfer abilities like Skill Swap does, (for instance you can't remove opposing Gastrodon's Storm Drain to hit its partner with a Water-type move) making it less versatile than Skill Swap.-- used because tornadus doesn't have skill swap, but the fact that it is less versatile should be mentioned.

    woefully weak-- is an alliteration. it rolls off the tongue and is pleasant to read imo :)

    Also on the set names, Acrobat refers to the profession (as in the people that swing on trapezes), so I feel it is more appropriate.
  16. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    Fine by me, sorry about the subjective cases, I'm not that experienced at VGC :)
  17. sirndpt

    sirndpt
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    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  18. lucariojr

    lucariojr quell the storm and ride the thundurus
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    changes made, and this is ready for upload :)
  19. Solace

    Solace falling slowly
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