1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. Click here to ensure that you never miss a new SmogonU video upload!


Discussion in 'BW OU' started by KurashiDragon, Jun 24, 2012.

  1. KurashiDragon


    Aug 6, 2008

    With the Advent of the gen 5 games, b2/w2 came the Therain forme for the 3 Genies. Thunderus got an increase in SpA up to 145 but it's Spd was reduced all the way to 101. Landorus was much the same only with it's Atk being increased and it's Spd being lowered to 91. Tornadus, at first glance, looks like it may have gotten the short end of the stick. It's Atk and SpA was reduced to 100 and 110 but it's Spd was increased up to 121. What does this mean for our newly transformed bird Genie? Well, let's look at it and see what we can find.

    Typing: Flying

    Base Stats: HP: 79 / Atk: 100 / Def: 80 / SpA: 110 / SpD: 90 / Spd: 121


    Regenerator: Regenerator is actually quite a big deal over Prankster. While it loses it non attacking priority, it gains an ability to switch in with much more impunity. That flying typing was always a problem with Stealth Rock but no more with Regenerator which will recover it's HP by 33%. Quite the better ability if I do say so myself.

    Move Data: All of what Incarnate Forme has, Therain Forme has. However, with B2/W2 Tornadus got Move tutor Data.

    New Move Tutor Data:

    Show Hide

    Dark Pulse, Foul Play, Heat Wave, Icy Wind, Iron Tail, Knock Off, Role Play, Sleep Talk, Snore, Superpower, Tailwind, Uproar

    Notable Move Tutor Moves:

    Heat Wave:
    That can be a good thing for Tornadus depending on how you look at it. In B/W, it had to rely on Focus Miss as a way to hit steel types Specially. With Heat Wave, it has a more secure method of hitting Steel Types not named Heatran. However, that only works well outside of Rain where Hurricane is suddenly turned into focus miss with stab. Now you can use Air Slash outside of rain but that's a Dramatic decrease in power. In the end though it really depends on what you want. You can use Heat Wave outside of Rain with Air Slash if you really want to. Personally, I'll stick with Rain on this one.

    Vs Hammer Arm, I'm really not sure if it's good or not. It has slightly more power right away but from there it reduces your power. Hammer arm is a good major option but it reduces your speed which is Therain Forme's strong suit. This is really a pick your poison moment.

    Move Sets:

    3 Attacks + Substitute@Life Orb
    Nature: Naive/Timid
    Evs: 4 Hp, 252 SpA, 252 Spd
    - Hurricane
    - Focus Blast/Superpower
    - Hidden Power (Ice)
    - Substitute
    Info: Consider this set Gengar without Disable but on Steroids. With it's higher speed and 100/110 Atk spread, it can make fine use of a Sub. Behind Rain, Hurricane is increased to 100% which gives it a 120% Atk with perfect acc and a 30% chance to confuse. Behind a sub, that's a very scary thought. Focus miss is still on this set as the primary option. The miss part is mitigated by Sub which will give you a chance to use it again. Superpower is slightly more powerful straight away than Hammer arm and gives you a physical fighting option. Just don't expect to use it to much. Hidden Power is really just there. Enjoy it. Substitute, as stated in this paragraph is a beautiful option.

    Why does a bird need glasses?@Choice Specs
    Nature: Naive/Timid
    Evs: 4 Hp, 252, SpA, 252 Spd
    - Focus Blast/Hammer Arm
    -Hidden Power (Ice)
    - U-turn
    Info: That power reduction may be a bad thing to some but to Tornadus, it's just one more excuse to wear specs, especially with that nice Spd increase. Hurricane is as always the go to option. Perfect Acc, 120% power, 110 SpA, and Specs are nothing to snuff at. Focus Miss is still here. It still has 120% power and it's a special attack so that is indeed an option in a Specs set. Hidden Power (Ice) is still there. It's a coverage move so yea. U-turn is still an option. It's good for scouting and with that 121 base Spd and Regenerator, it's not a bad move by any means.

    Personal Thoughts:

    Therain forme is a pretty interesting Forme change when you think about it competitively. That Spd increase is a great boon for Tornadus and the reduction of it's power isn't as bad as someone could make it out to be. Dont forget that premier OU pokemon like Starmie, Rotom-W, and Jolteon rely heavily on their SpA even though all of their base SpA stats are 100, 105, and 110 respectively. Only time will tell if Therain Forme can join the ranks of those pokemon but I think, in the end, Therain Forme can only be a good thing for Tornadus.

    Welp, that's the end of my rambling. Give me your thoughts on Therain Forme. One person's opinion does not an OU pokemon make after all.
  2. Soarin


    Jun 21, 2012
    The ability to outspeed every non-scarfed pokemon in Ou that isn't Jolteon and Regen is all a good bonus. But that comes with a Drop of special attack. Without that extra power that regular Tornadus has, It comes up just short of OHKO'ing Certain Pokemon it would otherwise KO. But the feeling you get when you know you can switch out and can still get a safe switch in on a move, especially with a specs user, I'm more than willing to sacrifice the extra power.
  3. Bribery


    Mar 28, 2009
    imo the best update from BW2 is Tornadus-T. Regenerator and it's new speed were a godsend and well worth the 15 SpA drop imo, especially now that it can outspeed ScarfTar and Starmie, two common checks for Tornadus.

    I've been liking the mixed LO set with Hurricane/Superpower/U-turn/Heat Wave. It's good for scouting and wall-breaking. Heat Wave is largely filler but I found it useful in times when Rain wasn't up but an annoying Steel type like Ferrothorn was in the way. HP Grass or Ice could also work though. Superpower is much more reliable than Focus Blast and has a good chance to 2HKO Bold Blissey after hazards.
  4. Paolo


    Jul 31, 2011
    I must say Tornadus-T has surprised me. He just wrecks in the rain and partners up well with Thundurus who loves to absorb the electric attacks aimed at him. The specs set seems to be the best in my opinion the loss in Sp attack really isn't all that noticeable and the ability to out speed near everything non scarfed is to valuable. Regenerator is just icing on the cake, it basically mitigates it's SR weakness and allows you to keep coming in. The only really issue with Tornadus-T is finding ways to get him in without taking to much damage. All in all though I'd say out of the new formes he seems to be the most threatening.
  5. KurashiDragon


    Aug 6, 2008
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks Therain forme was the best thing to happen to Tornadus in B2/W2.

    I'm not a fan of Focus Miss but at the same time it's a more powerful option sense it uses Tornadus' SpA. Still Superpower is an option for taking on Blissey and Tyranitar. Like I said though, just don't expect to use it much.
  6. NixHex

    NixHex ONE YEAR Seizure Free!! God bless keppra.
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Oct 6, 2009
    I kind of like the idea of no Prankster; it seemed very secondary for Tornadus (although Prankster Tailwind sacrifices were a blast). Regenerator makes Tornadus-T more singles oriented for somewhat curbing that Stealth Rock weakness.
  7. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Has got the gift of gab
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 30, 2010
    I love this guy! Seriously he's one of the best offensive pivots in the game right now. That huge speed lets it check damn near everything and Hurricane is Hurricane.

    Regenerator is what really seals the deal though. Coupled with the increased(albeit only slightly) defenses allows him to come in Smash the Hurricane button, U-turn back out and do it all over again in a few turns. Before with Incarnate form I found many teams would check Tornadus merely with keeping Stealth Rocks up. With Regenerator this is no longer an option.

    Go try him out, he won't disappoint.
  8. Milos


    Jul 22, 2008
    a choice scarf variant seems to work well. the stealth rock damage wont be much of a problem as long as you use him as a hit and run poke.

    Tornadus @ Choice Scarf
    Timid (+spe, -atk)
    -Focus Blast
    -HP Ice

    would work better in tandem with toed.

    seems like an interesting pokemon overall.
  9. ace combat

    ace combat

    Jan 17, 2011
    This is the best set I have tried out yet:

    Tornadus @ Life Orb
    Naive (+Spe, -SpDef)
    6 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
    -Heat Wave

    With this set he is always able to OHKO 252 HP Tyranitar without Chople Berry, use Heat Wave to kill Ferrothorn always outside of Rain and kill Scizor even inside Rain, along with various other Steels such as Skarmory, and use U-turn to help keep the Momentum. Hurricane hits as hard as ever just decimating its opponents.
  10. breh

    breh 強いだね

    Feb 6, 2010
    I've been using the same set as ace combat but with Timid and Focus Blast; agreeing that it's amazing. LO is just really good. Whenever Focus Blast's accuracy doesn't cause problems, it's great.

    It's really weird, tbh. Tornadus hits juuuust hard enough that it becomes really really fun to play. Regenerator is the icing on a cake that probably wouldn't be there otherwise.

    I wonder how normaldus does now that it has heat wave...
  11. casey90


    Oct 2, 2009
    I live him as a pivot on my super duper rain team, He's been very effective so far.

    here's the set:

    Tornadus-T @ Leftovers
    Ability: Regenerator
    Timid Nature (+Speed - Attack)
    ~84 HP , 216 Sp. Att , 208 Speed~
    ~Focus Blast

    I use him as an offensive Pivot, he's surprisingly hard to KO, and Regenerator is a great Reset Button if I screw up a prediction. He hit's pretty hard considering how spammy Hurricane is, with focus blast to compliment coverage. I find him to be very much like Gen 4 UU's Crobat, his goal is to screw over fighting types, grass types and bug types that get in my teams way.
  12. Gypceros


    Dec 14, 2011
    I have tried a Choice Specs set and works REALLY good, in my opinion. While he lost some power from regular Tornadus, 110 SpAtk is still pretty good. Add that with Regenerator and enough outspeed everything OU bar Jolteon and you have yourself a formidable Choice Specs user. Now, there is something I'm curious about... His defenses got a boost but he only has 79 HP. Could a defensive set work in spite of that?

    EDIT: After doing a couple of calcs, they're not looking good for a defensive set.
  13. TyranitarAbuser


    May 18, 2012
    The stats are a real blow actually. This might end up UU, but we'll see. Once its special attack was on par with Hydreigon's, now, though it isn't too bad, is a considerable drop. The attack stat dropped, making physical moves not as powerful as before (my rain team is weeping right now. GF, you meanies). Its speed, though increased, is still slightly disappointing (Jolteon and others outspeed, though I think Scarftar and Starmie will be outspeeded. Unless I messed up calcs). One boost though, is Regenarator, and I can see it on a Volt-turn team. All I really have to say about Tornadus-T. Another example of GF messing up.
  14. ss234

    ss234 bop.

    Jun 2, 2012
    How did they mess up? Tornadus T is by far the most dangerous of the new genie forms. Landorus needs either a Rock Polish set or a defensive set for it to work and it isn't nearly quick enough, while Thunderus really misses his speed.

    I do agree that he could play a big role on VoltTurn teams. He doesn't need to run a Scarf like Landorus, and Regenerator nullifies SR damage. He is a better counter to Celebi, since all Celebi can do is HP Fire or Psychic him at the very worst, while Hurricane under rain is a 1HKO. Latias is a big thorn in his side, but that's what U-turn is for and bring in Scizor for the Pursuit.

    The fact that he outspeeds Scarf Tar and Starmie and Alakazam is a major plus to him. He may have already been fast, but now there's onle revenge killers and Jolteon who outspeed him. I had troubles with dealing with Tornadus before-now he can outspeed Starmie and Tyranitar though...
  15. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Mar 2, 2011
    I think its a good genie, but I honestly think its just hype now, its lower special attack means its not the sweeper Tornadus was, I could see it high speed and regenerator being a great thing for bulky offensive teams.
  16. lobstermobster


    May 13, 2012
    What I've noticed about Tornadus T is that it is a pretty effective choice specs attacker in rain. It can switch in, launch a high powered Hurricane, then switchout to heal off any damage it took from stealth rocks or something.
  17. J~mal


    Mar 28, 2011
    I personally think this new forme is insane. The set I use is:

    Mild Nature@lum berry


    This set is nothing serious but its what I have been using and it has been doing amazing, with rain support of course. Regenerator Uturn is obviously amazing because even with stealth rocks up Tornadus remains healthy, and is immune to all other entry hazards. Get it in and spam hurricanes which are still very powerful. I managed to superpower a chansey and with some entry hazards down was an easy 2kho which is amazing, and when its time to leave just uturn out maximizing offensive potential.
  18. doughboy

    doughboy backhand slap ready
    is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Sep 4, 2011
    Why invest those EV's into HP if you are a mixed attacking set? Why have Tailwind if you outspeed every poke in the OU besides Jolteon? Why not run some sort of boosting item to power up any of your moves since you can U-turn out of status inducers anyway?

    I'm seeing alot of pretty much the same sets on here. On Choice Scarf Tornadus: are you fucking kidding me? Soon we will have a metagame with Choice Scarf Jolteon ;.; You're hitting 562 speed which means you outspeed neutral-nature+2 base 90's and you tied with Rock Polish Wolfrus. lol
  19. J~mal


    Mar 28, 2011
    Well Ive noticed people want to spam Tornadus t with status because its very difficult to take down so I threw a lum berry on there to be a pseudo status absorber(t wave makes him next to useless),And tailwind is for team support so I can sweep with Haxorus or Keldeo without the worry of them being out sped. I just use the "mixed set" mainly for coverage against things that resist flying. And i threw a bit of hp in there to make it more bulky. Its a very decent set, it has won me all my battles so far.
  20. MrMew72


    Jun 24, 2012
    Its pretty interesting, but with more bulk than offensive prowess, the best opttions for the bird would be to use set up, making something like a Sub-Bulk Up set pretty viable, and adding in its amazing new speed, it makes sense.
  21. J~mal


    Mar 28, 2011
    I cant even explain how well it's doing though...I have 3 battles saved so far where it has definitely won me the battle. The bit of bulk goes a long way, especially for such a fast pokemon. Fast, bulky, and in the rain, very powerful. Tornadus T is for sure my favorite pokemon right now. Tornadus T and Thundurus T make an amazing combo with their volturn shenanigans
  22. Meru

    Meru the pay back
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a defending SPL Champion

    Aug 7, 2005
    I feel like Sleep Talk being learnable from the move tutors needs to be mentioned in this thread. Since Tornadus can switch into Amoonguss with impunity, and Breloom sort of, making a slot for Sleep Talk on the Specs set definitely has some merit, as the Specs set gets all it needs out of 2-3 moves.
  23. KurashiDragon


    Aug 6, 2008
    That would make it a fairly situational move. In order for sleep talk to be useful you'd obviously have to go for rest talk. If someone could give a good reason for why Restalk is useful for Therain forme, I'll gladly mention Sleep Talk and maybe put a set up.
  24. alphatron

    alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair!

    Oct 5, 2010
    Rest talk? I think he means that sleep talk would be good on a specs set since tornadus doesn't need all four moveslots (hurricane, focus blast, maybe a hidden power or heat wave).

    It could definitely work and it even turns him into a sleep absorber against those two pokemon.
  25. Skore


    Apr 24, 2011
    The Therian form was the best thing that could happen to this mon.
    That extra bit of bulk and speed were worth the slight power drop as they actually give you the opportunity to spam that Hurricane button, and 120 BP STAB moves are definitely the way forward.

    Couple it with Regenerator and you have got a beast of a mon that can finally come out of it's 2 brothers' shadows and stand on it's own merits.

    I wouldn't say top 5 but top 10 is probably a sure thing.

    Has anyone run any calcs to see how survivable this bird is vs a Jolteon Thunder?

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)