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Tornadus-T

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Tobes, Jul 13, 2012.

  1. Tobes

    Tobes 「Cheezum」「Cripes」
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    [Overview]

    <p>Tornadus-T is effectively the solution to nearly every issue Tornadus ever had. Regenerator greatly mitigates its weakness to passive damage, and its fantastic base 121 Speed not only allows Tornadus-T to outspeed Pokemon which were notable threats to Tornadus, such as Choice Scarf Tyranitar and Starmie, but it also makes Tornadus-T the fastest non-Scarfed prominent threat in OU. Although Tornadus-T does not have the raw power of Tornadus, it is still quite powerful, has one of the best offensive STABs in the metagame, and Regenerator gives Tornadus-T a higher of degree of versatility than Tornadus. Tornadus-T can run Choice Specs with a much higher degree of safety than Tornadus, and isn't as adversely affected by Life Orb, allowing it to go mixed to great effect. Superpower helps quite a bit here, smashing Tyranitar, Blissey, and Heatran, and U-turn helps Tornadus-T retain momentum. Tornadus-T still has trouble beating some bulky Steel-types and is absolutely dependent on rain in order to function, but it is a top-class threat and should never be taken lightly.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Hurricane
    move 2: Superpower / Focus Blast
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Taunt / Rain Dance / Hidden Power Ground
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Naive / Timid
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Tornadus-T can run a Life Orb set to great effect, thanks to Hurricane's excellent neutral coverage, Regenerator, and its access to an assortment of useful moves. Hurricane is the crux of the set, since it deals a lot of damage to many Pokemon in the metagame. Fighting-type moves have historically been an excellent complement to Flying-type moves, and while Tornadus-T is not going to find Superpower useful against most Steel-types, it can be put to great effect against Blissey and Tyranitar. Focus Blast is an alternative for the ability to deal with Ferrothorn more quickly or to avoid Superpower's stat drops, but because Tornadus-T is very adept at switching out of danger, the stat drops usually will not be enough of a detriment to warrant this. U-turn maintains offensive momentum, and allows Tornadus-T to pick up Regenerator recovery while keeping up offensive pressure. The last slot is where there is the most variance; Rain Dance can be used as a failsafe in case Politoed dies, or to force opposing weather inducers out, making them eat more entry hazard damage and making the weather war easier to win. Taunt is great for shutting down the likes of Deoxys-D, Chansey, and Ferrothorn, and Tornadus-T's insane base Speed makes it a prime user of the move. Tailwind, although used to greater affect by Tornadus, is also an option, since Tornadus-T is faster than most non-Choice Scarf Pokemon. With Tailwind, it's suddenly the fastest thing in the metagame, and it can even be used to give a partner a chance to sweep late-game.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hidden Power Ground can be used to hit Heatran and Jirachi, but the move is rather weak and limited in use. Hidden Power Ice is another option, smashing Thundurus-T, 2HKOing Dragonite through Multiscale, and giving Tornadus-T the ability to reliably OHKO Breloom even without rain. Grass Knot can be used to dispose of Gastrodon, Mamoswine, and others, while Heat Wave does some damage to Steel-types, such as Scizor and Ferrothorn, when it isn't raining. If Genesect is a concern, then Naive Tornadus-T can opt to run a Defense IV of 28 (or 27 if using Hidden Power Ground) in order to ensure that Genesect does not obtain a Special Attack boost from Download.</p>

    <p>Tornadus-T absolutely needs Politoed's Drizzle in order to function at its best. Generally it is going to be used on a dedicated rain team, or not at all. Although Regenerator gives Tornadus-T quite a bit of leeway when facing Stealth Rock, Tornadus-T prefers not to deal with it when possible, so Rapid Spin support is appreciated. Starmie can provide this and is right at home on the standard rain offense team. Tornadus-T also enjoys entry hazard support of its own, which makes it much more difficult for the opponent to handle it. Deoxys-D, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory can all supply Stealth Rock or Spikes, or both if necessary. Tornadus-T faces the most issues from fast Electric-types and bulky Steel-types. Dugtrio can help dispatch a weakened Jirachi or Metagross, and can also deal with Jolteon if Dugtrio's Focus Sash is intact. Choice Scarf Thundurus-T, and Choice Scarf users in general, can be problematic, so Wobbuffet is an excellent supporter as it can dispose of them. Tornadus-T also fears priority moves from strong attackers such as Scizor and Mamoswine, so Water-type teammates, such as the necessary Politoed or Keldeo, are appreciated for their ability to tank Bullet Punch and Ice Shard. Speaking of Keldeo, it, and other Fighting-types such as Breloom and Terrakion, are great for smashing Blissey and Chansey, two Pokemon which could otherwise pose problems for Tornadus-T.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hurricane
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Heat Wave / Air Slash
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a pair of Choice Specs, Tornadus-T exchanges its flexibility for the ability to utterly smash faces. Choice Specs Tornadus-T isn't quite as powerful as Choice Specs Tornadus, but it is still deadly, and suffers far less from Stealth Rock than Tornadus. Hurricane is of course the principal STAB, boasting high Base Power and excellent neutral coverage. Even Pokemon which resist the move can face a sever risk when switching into it, as some risk a 2HKO. Most non-resistant Pokemon are put in severe danger when staring down a Specs Tornadus-T; for example, Salamence is OHKOed most of the time by Hurricane without Stealth Rock. Some examples of Choice Specs Tornadus-T's strength are listed here:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>Hurricane vs 0/0 Rotom-W: 51% - 60.2%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 248 HP Rotom-W: 40.6% - 47.9%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 248 HP Scizor: 91.3% - 107.9%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 252 HP Deoxys-D: 57.2% - 67.4%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 252/252 Careful Ferrothorn: 48% - 57.1%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 252/0 Skarmory: 52.1% - 61.7%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 252/252 Calm Gastrodon: 50% - 59.2%</li>
    <li>Focus Blast vs 252/252 Heatran: 62.2% - 73.6%</li>
    <li>Focus Blast vs 0/0 Heatran: 94.1% - 110.8%</li>
    <li>Focus Blast vs 252/252 Careful Ferrothorn: 64.2% - 76.1%</li>
    <li>Focus Blast vs 252/0 Magnezone: 101.2% - 119.2%</li>
    <li>Heat Wave vs 252/252 Jirachi: 52% - 61.4%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Focus Blast is Hurricane's natural complement, smacking around the likes of Heatran, Tyranitar, and Ferrothorn. U-turn does what it always does; that is, maintain offensive momentum, force would-be checks to eat hazard damage, and keep Tornadus-T healthy and out of harm's way. The lack of a Life Orb does make it much less powerful, but also is advantageous in that Tornadus-T can gain net recovery from U-turn even when Stealth Rock is present. The moves in the last slot are both handy in the case that rain cannot be kept up. Heat Wave roasts Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Jirachi. Air Slash is a fairly weak STAB move, but does give Tornadus-T something to attack with when it isn't raining, and the chance for a flinch could be game-changing in dire situations.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Politoed support is even more important for this set, if that were possible, since Choice Specs Tornadus-T does not have the option of using Rain Dance to prime Hurricane on its own. Tornadus-T does have more niche attacking options, but it wants to be wrecking things with Hurricane whenever it can, and being locked into a weak move can have consequences, whether it's allowing an opponent to set up or allowing something to Pursuit trap Tornadus-T. Hidden Power Ground crushes Heatran and Magnezone, and does decent damage to Jirachi, but being locked into an un-STABed Ground-type move with 70 Base Power is probably one of the biggest openings you can give an opponent. Hidden Power Ice can be used to dispatch Dragonite and Thundurus-T, but has overall limited use. Grass Knot is actually not that bad of an option, despite its typing; it destroys Gastrodon and also hits Tyranitar and Mamoswine. Sleep Talk is a possibility if you're paranoid about Breloom, since Tornadus-T is a decent switch-in to it.</p>

    <p>Due to the lack of recoil, Stealth Rock isn't as much of a concern here, but it's still something Tornadus-T prefers not to have to deal with. Rapid Spin users such as Starmie or Forretress can support Tornadus-T here, and provide other services, such as being an offensive partner or providing entry hazard support, respectively. Dugtrio helps to win weather wars, and makes switching into Tornadus-T a bit more daunting; if an opponent switches a Tyranitar or Ninetales into Tornadus-T to tank a Hurricane, only for Tornadus-T to U-turn, then Dugtrio will make quick work of their inducer. The same goes for Heatran, who is slightly more troublesome without the option to nail it with Superpower.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Tornadus-T can also go physical using Bulk Up, Acrobatics, and a Flying Gem, but this is quite an opportunity cost given how effective Tornadus-T is at using Hurricane, and Tornadus has a niche with this set thanks to Prankster. Tornadus-T can opt to run a fair amount of bulk in order to act as a pivot and get more out of Regenerator. Substitute blocks status and can be used to scout slower opponents, but Tornadus-T really hates losing health if it can be avoided, since one of its biggest selling points is ordinarily the degree of difficulty in wearing it down. Agility lets Tornadus-T not be concerned by Choice Scarf users in the slightest, but usually requires that Tornadus-T give up a turn that it could've attacked a slower target with, and does nothing to prevent Tornadus-T from being mangled by common priority moves. Brick Break destroys screens, and that's about it. It's considerable on a Bulk Up set over Superpower, but that's really the only time to consider it. Knock Off can rob the opponent of their item, and is actually surprisingly effective against Shed Shell Heatran, Tyranitar, or Ninetales when Tornadus-T is partnered with Dugtrio. Removing a Rotom-W's Choice Scarf also makes it much easier to handle, for example. Lastly, Torment neuters Choice-locked slower Pokemon, but is extremely limited in its use.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Steel-types that are neutral to Fighting-type attacks are some of the best answers to Tornadus-T. Specially defensive Jirachi stands out as it is able to tank its hits and heal off the damage with Wish before paralyzing Tornadus-T with Body Slam or Thunder Wave. Bronzong and Metagross are two more Steel-types which can tank Hurricanes and don't fear Superpower, though they lack reliable recovery. Specially defensive Skarmory, though an uncommon version, can also tank Hurricanes, but must be wary of being shut down by Taunt. Electric-types are another good answer. Rotom-W and Thundurus-T can shrug off a Hurricane and outspeed for an OHKO if wearing a Choice Scarf. Rotom-W and Zapdos can both invest in bulk to better handle Hurricanes. Jolteon can also switch into Hurricane, and is one of the few Pokemon in OU that can naturally outspeed Tornadus-T. Blissey fears Superpower, but can handle Choice Specs Tornadus-T without too much difficult, while Chansey can hard-wall either variant. One must always be wary of Tornadus-T's access to U-turn, though.</p>

    <p>Another effective way to neuter Tornadus-T is to remove its rain. Hurricane is much less threatening when it can't hit with much consistency, especially in sun where its accuracy is 50%. Sandstorm also deserves mention for making it a bit easier to wear down Tornadus-T, especially Life Orb variants, though switching a Tyranitar into Tornadus-T is incredibly risky, especially when said Tornadus-T has Dugtrio support. Passive damage to Tornadus-T is mostly mitigated by Regenerator, but Stealth Rock and damaging status conditions can help to wear it down, as can a Rocky Helmet or Iron Barbs when it attempts to U-turn. While Stealth Rock by itself might not be enough to limit Tornadus-T over the course of a game, it at the least ensures that Tornadus-T enters battle with only 75% health, making it much easier to kill. Tornadus-T's bulk isn't overly impressive either, so chip damage as it switches into attacks also helps to weaken it. This lack of bulk is also one of Tornadus-T's biggest problems, because it allows Tornadus-T to be revenge killed without too much hassle by some threats. Choice Scarf users are a common method of revenge killing Tornadus. Choice Scarf Genesect in particular is especially prominent, and destroys Tornadus-T with Ice Beam or Thunderbolt after a Download boost. Other Choice Scarf users, such as Keldeo or Terrakion, can eliminate Tornadus-T. Priority is another way to deal with it, with special note going to Weavile and Mamoswine, since their STAB priority hits Tornadus-T for super effective damage. Weavile itself naturally outspeeds Tornadus-T, allowing it to use Ice Punch to OHKO Tornadus-T if it is running the move. Surprise attacks are also a good method of killing off Tornadus-T, such as Breloom using Stone Edge on a Tornadus-T expecting to be able to switch in on Mach Punch.</p>
  2. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    In the list of pokemon that are outsped you could also mention Azelf. When i had the Tornadus-T analyses, i talked with the QC team, and we agreed that this was the last slot for the LO set: Rain Dance / Taunt / HP Ground.

    You should also definitely mention Sleep Talk in the AC of the Specs set.

    And why isn't Blissey mentioned in the Checks and Counters section?

    Finally in both of the sets AC, you haven't mentioned teammates to take down the blobs, such as Haxorus, Terrakion, etc.
  3. Tobes

    Tobes 「Cheezum」「Cripes」
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    I was actually just having the Taunt discussion with QC, so yeah, in it goes. Also Blissey isn't as good of an answer since it takes a shitload from Superpower, but I'll mention it.
  4. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    However it is a counter to the Specs set, and a good check to the LO set. Yeah whatever you already said ok...
  5. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere And the haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate.
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    doesn't 64 Atk Evs on the Life Orb set guarantee a OHKO on all Tyranitar variants with superpower?
  6. Tobes

    Tobes 「Cheezum」「Cripes」
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    LO 4 Atk Tornadus-T Superpower vs 252 HP Tyranitar: 103% - 121.8%

    Not seeing the need.

    Also:

    LO 4 Atk Tornadus-T Superpower vs 252/252 Bold Blissey: 57.1% - 67.2%
    -1 Atk LO 4 Atk Tornadus-T Superpower vs 252/252 Bold Blissey: 38.1% - 45.1%

    95.2% - 112.3% total, a guaranteed 2HKO if Blissey switches in with SR.
  7. Nachos

    Nachos
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    I think the skeleton covers every option there is and lists everything that is needed, so for that reason I'm gonna say QC Appproved (1/3).

    However, I think you should make a note in the Overview that Tornadus-T is the fastest thing in OU that is commonly used (not counting scarfers/priority obv), seeing as that is quite significant.
  8. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Haha

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  9. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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  10. Jamiroquai

    Jamiroquai

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    Never been in this section of the forum. Just a suggestion, why not include Sleep Talk & Hurricane set. I've seen it a fair bit, I'm using it for one. Specs sleeptalk can only use Hurricane, so rain is an almost must, which hits like a damn truck with specs. Obviously this set is a great sleep absorber.
  11. bubbly

    bubbly

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    Sleep Talk should definitely be mentioned in OO. I'd stop short of slashing it into the Specs sets 4th slot though.
  12. Tobes

    Tobes 「Cheezum」「Cripes」
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    Sleep Talk is already in the Specs AC, and it was agreed upon by QC that that is where it will stay.
  13. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    I think he meant having a set of ONLY Sleep Talk and Hurricane. No two other moves. That way, when you absorb a sleep-move (coughBreloomcough), you can ONLY use Hurricane. Since that's what you'd be spamming, it's not too bad an idea. I'm not too sure about mechanics, but I remember reading something funky happening when you use a Choice-locked Sleep Talk, so that may or not be mention worthy at all.

    EDIT @Electrolyte: I was just translating what seemed to be a misunderstanding. I personally like Life Orb mixed. XD
  14. Ojama

    Ojama May your scattered remains entertain me
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    HP Ground isn't very usefull, remove it. Maybe you could add HP Ice, since it hits Thundurus-T / Dragonite etc. Rain Dance is clearly the best choice.
  15. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Fastest man alive
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    yeah... No. That sort of set is easily punishable; does not cover as many threats as the other sets do, and half relies on sleep inducers to function. I also don't think Breloom+Amoonguss are even popular enough for this to be viable. Especially, when you can just use something like Espeon.
    This set also depends on Rain much more than other sets- take away rain, and this set is almost useless. An AC mention is good enough, IMO. Nice job, Tobes
  16. giggity69

    giggity69

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    I would mention air slash, heat wave, super power, u turn in oo, it's a pretty good all around offensive set up that let's you function outside of rain. Reliable check to breloom, keldo, and other fighters, and can roast steel types in neutral weather, which obviously won't happen when trying to support hurricane. And as much as I detest hax, the flinch rate is baller with it's speed + regen to make up for lost finches or misses.

    Not sure if it warrants its own set, but it would be more of a mixed attacker than hurricane spammer
  17. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    Put protect as the fourth slash - it can scout choice users easily. Kind of like protect terrakion.
  18. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    I think that Grass Knot or HP Ice deserve the last slash in the 4th slot of the first set, as HP Ground is really useless.

    Grass Knot is the only move that can 2hko SpD Hippo, unless you want to take the 32.03% chance of Hurricane to do so, not factoring in accuracy, w/o SR up. It also lets Tornadus-t ohko physically defensive Hippo after SR, which is always nice, in case he want to revenge kill you with Stone Edge or something (or if you used Rain Dance as he came in, where w/o GK it would be able to survive one Hurricane and ohko back with SE). It also always ohkoes Gastrodon after SR, if Gastrodon comes into Hurricane, while otherwise Gastrodon could check Tornadus-T quite well. It is also the only move that can 2hko SpDefensive Jellicent with SR up. Finally it can also always OHKO Terrakion outside of Sand, which no other move of Tornadus-T can (except from the unreliable FB), as Superpower and Hurricane fail to ohko even after SR.

    HP Ice in the other hand is nice to ohko Salamence and Dnite outside of rain, always ohko any Dnite after SR (Hurricane has a 56.25% chance to ohko offensive DDnite after SR, and anything with more bulk always survives, while HP Ice always OHKOs every Dnite after SR, even 252/252+ Dnite, 37.5% of the time), Garchomp (Hurricane does 86% max), Gliscor (Hurricane does 96% max) and Thundurus-T after SR 68.75% of the times.
  19. Jayde

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    amateur MASTER check
    changes
    [comments]
    Show Hide


    god this took a long time. anyone feel free to give positive/negative feedback on this check, i tried not to change too much
  20. Blinder

    Blinder

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    I would recommend adding a bulk-up set with Acrobatics, Superpower, and Substitute/U-turn/Crunch/Protect. Very effective set.
  21. Tobes

    Tobes 「Cheezum」「Cripes」
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  22. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
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    Amcheck
    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

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    [Overview]
    Also, Tornadus-I is just Tornadus, and leave all Tornadus-T as Tornadus-T

    <p>Tornadus-T is effectively BW2 was the solution to nearly every issue Tornadus-I ever had. Regenerator now greatly mitigates Tornadus-T's weakness to passive damage, and the fantastic base 121 Speed not only allows Tornadus-T to outspeed Pokemon which were notable threats to Tornadus-I and so on, such as Choice Scarf Tyranitar and Starmie, but it also makes Tornadus-T the fastest non-Scarfed prominent threat in OU. Although Tornadus-T does not have the raw power of Tornadus, it is still quite powerful, has one of the best offensive STABs in the metagame, and Regenerator gives Tornadus-T a higher of degree of versatility than Tornadus-I. Tornadus-T can run Choice Specs with a much higher degree of safety than Tornadus, and isn't as adversely affected by Life Orb, allowing it to go mixed to great effect. Superpower helps quite a bit here, smashing Tyranitar, Blissey, and Heatran, and U-turn helps Tornadus-T retain momentum. Tornadus-T still has trouble beating some bulky Steel-types and is absolutely dependant on rain in order to function, but it is a top-class threat and should never be taken lightly.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb
    move 1: Hurricane
    move 2: Superpower / Focus Blast
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Taunt / Rain Dance / Hidden Power Ground
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Naive / Timid
    evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Tornadus-T can run a Life Orb set to great effect, thanks to Hurricane's excellent neutral coverage, Regenerator, and its access to an assortment of useful moves. Hurricane is the crux of the set, as it deals a lot of damage to many Pokemon in the metagame. Fighting-type moves have historically been an excellent complement to Flying-type moves, and while Tornadus-T is not going to find Superpower useful against most Steel-types, it can be put to great effect against Blissey and Tyranitar. Focus Blast is an alternative for the ability to deal with Ferrothorn more quickly or to avoid Superpower's stat drops, but as Tornadus-T is very adept at switching out of danger, the stat drops usually will not be enough of a detriment to warrant this. U-turn maintains offensive momentum, and allows Tornadus-T to pick up Regenerator recovery while keeping up offensive pressure. The last slot is where there is the most variance; Rain Dance can be used as a failsafe in case Politoed dies, or to force opposing weather inducers out, making them eat more entry hazard damage and making the weather war easier to win. Taunt is great for shutting down the likes of Deoxys-D, Chansey, and Ferrothorn, and Tornadus-T's insane base Speed make it a prime user of the move. Tailwind, although used to greater affect by Tornadus's Incarnate Forme, is also an option, as Tornadus-T is faster than most non-Choice Scarf Pokemon. With Tailwind, it's suddenly the fastest thing in the metagame, and it can even be used to give a partner a chance to sweep late-game Officially the hyphen is supposed to be there, though I don't agree with it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Hidden Power Ground can be used to hit Heatran and Jirachi, but the move is rather weak and limited in use. Hidden Power Ice is another option, smashing Thundurus-T, 2HKOing Dragonite through Multiscale, (AC) and giving Tornadus-T the ability to reliably OHKO Breloom even without rain. Grass Knot can be used to dispose of Gastrodon, Mamoswine, and others, while Heat Wave does some damage to Steel-types such as Scizor and Ferrothorn when it isn't raining.</p>

    <p>Tornadus-T absolutely needs Politoed's Drizzle in order to function at its best. Generally it is going to be used on a dedicated rain team, or not at all. Although Regenerator gives Tornadus-T quite a bit of leeway when facing Stealth Rock, Tornadus-T prefers not to deal with it when possible, so Rapid Spin support is appreciated. Starmie can provide this and is right at home on the standard rain offense team. Tornadus-T also enjoys entry hazard support of its own, which makes it much more difficult for the opponent to handle it. Deoxys-D, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory can all supply Stealth Rock or Spikes, or both if necessary. Tornadus-T faces the most issues from fast Electric-types and bulky Steel-types. Dugtrio can help dispatch a weakened Jirachi or Metagross, and can also deal with Jolteon if Dugtrio's Focus Sash is intact. Choice Scarf Thundurus-T, and Choice Scarf users in general, can be problematic, so Wobbuffet is an excellent supporter as it can dispose of them. Tornadus-T also fears priority moves from strong attackers such as Scizor and Mamoswine, so Water-type teammates, such as the necessary Politoed or Keldeo, are appreciated for their ability to tank Bullet Punch and Ice Shard. Speaking of Keldeo, it, and other Fighting-types such as Breloom and Terrakion, are great for smashing Blissey and Chansey, two Pokemon which could otherwise pose problems for Tornadus-T.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Hurricane
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Heat Wave / Air Slash
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Regenerator
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a pair of Choice Specs, Tornadus-T exchanges its flexibility for the ability to utterly smash faces. Choice Specs Tornadus-T isn't quite as powerful as Choice Specs Tornadus-I, but it is still deadly, and suffers far less from Stealth Rock than Tornadus-I. Hurricane is of course the principal STAB, boasting high base power and excellent neutral coverage. Even Pokemon that resists the move can face a sever risk when switching into it, and some risk a 2HKO. Most non-resistant Pokemon are put in severe danger when staring down a Specs Tornadus-T; for example, Salamence is OHKOed most of the time by Hurricane without Stealth Rock. Some examples of Specs Tornadus-T's strength:</p>

    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>Hurricane vs 0/0 Rotom-W: 51% - 60.2%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 248 HP Rotom-W: 40.6% - 47.9%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 248 HP Scizor: 91.3% - 107.9%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 252 HP Deoxys-D: 57.2% - 67.4%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 252/252 Careful Ferrothorn: 48% - 57.1%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 252/0 Skarmory: 52.1% - 61.7%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 252/252 Calm Gastrodon: 50% - 59.2%</li>
    <li>Focus Blast vs 252/252 Heatran: 62.2% - 73.6%</li>
    <li>Focus Blast vs 0/0 Heatran: 94.1% - 110.8%</li>
    <li>Focus Blast vs 252/252 Careful Ferrothorn:
    <li>Focus Blast vs 252/0 Magnezone: 101.2% - 119.2%</li>
    <li>Heat Wave vs 252/252 Jirachi: 52% - 61.4%</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Focus Blast is Hurricane's natural complement, smacking around the likes of Heatran, Tyranitar, and Ferrothorn. U-turn does what it always does; that is, maintain offensive momentum, force would-be checks to eat hazard damage, and keep Tornadus-T healthy and out of harm's way. The lack of a Life Orb does make it much less powerful, but also is advantageous in that Tornadus-T can gain net recovery from U-turn even when Stealth Rock is present. The moves in the last slot are both handy in the case that rain cannot be kept up. Heat Wave roasts Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Jirachi. Air Slash is a fairly weak STAB move, but does give Tornadus-T something to attack with when it isn't raining, and the chance for a flinch could be game-changing in dire situations.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Politoed support is even more important for this set, if that were possible, as Choice Specs Tornadus-T does not have the option of using Rain Dance to prime Hurricane on its own. Tornadus-T does have more niche attacking options, but it wants to be wrecking things with Hurricane whenever it can, and being locked into a weak move can have consequences, whether it's allowing an opponent to set up or allowing something to Pursuit trap Tornadus-T. Hidden Power Ground crushes Heatran and Magnezone, and does decent damage to Jirachi, but being locked into an un-STABed Ground-type move with 70 Base Power is probably one of the biggest openings you can give an opponent. Hidden Power Ice can be used to dispatch Dragonite and Thundurus-T, but has overall limited use. Grass Knot is actually not that bad of an option, despite its typing; it destroys Gastrodon and also hits Tyranitar and Mamoswine. Sleep Talk is a possibility if you're paranoid about Breloom, as Tornadus-T is a decent switch-in to it.</p>

    <p>Due to the lack of recoil, Stealth Rock isn't as much of a concern here, but it's still something Tornadus-T prefers not to have to deal with. Rapid Spinners such as Starmie or Forretress can support Tornadus-T here, and provide other services, such as being an offensive partner or providing entry hazard support, respectively. Dugtrio helps to win weather wars, and makes switching into Tornadus-T a bit more daunting; if an opponent switches a Tyranitar or Ninetales into Tornadus-T to tank a Hurricane, only for Tornadus-T to U-turn, then Dugtrio will make quick work of their inducer. The same goes for Heatran, which is slightly more troublesome without the option to nail it with Superpower. Overall, though, the teammates that benefit Life Orb Tornadus benefit this set as well.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Tornadus-T can also go physical using Bulk Up, Acrobatics, and a Flying Gem, but this is quite an opportunity cost given how effective Tornadus-T is at using Hurricane, and its Incarnate Forme has a niche with this set thanks to Prankster. Tornadus-T can opt to run a fair amount of bulk in order to act as a pivot and get more out of Regenerator. Substitute blocks status and can be used to scout slower opponents, but Tornadus-T really hates losing health if it can be avoided, as one of its biggest selling points is ordinarily the degree of difficulty in wearing it down. Agility lets Tornadus-T not be concerned by Choice Scarf users in the slightest, but usually requires that Tornadus-T give up a turn that it could've attacked a slower target with, and does nothing to prevent Tornadus-T from being mangled by common priority moves. Brick Break destroys screens, but that's about it. It's considerable on a Bulk Up set over Superpower, but that's really the only time to consider it. Knock Off can rob the opponent of their item, and is actually surprisingly effective against Shed Shell Heatran, Tyranitar, or Ninetales when Tornadus-T is partnered with Dugtrio. Removing a Rotom-W's Choice Scarf also makes it much easier to handle, for example. Lastly, Torment neuters Choice-locked slower Pokemon, but is extremely limited in its use.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Steel-types that are neutral to Fighting-type attacks are some of the best answers to Tornadus-T. Specially defensive Jirachi is one of the best answers to Tornadus-T, being able to tank its hits and heal off the damage with Wish before paralyzing Tornadus-T with Body Slam or Thunder Wave. Bronzong and Metagross are two more Steel-types that can tank Hurricanes and don't fear Superpower, though they lack reliable recovery. Specially defensive Skarmory, though an uncommon version, can also tank Hurricanes, but must be wary of being shut down by Taunt. Electric-types are another good answer. Rotom-W and Thundurus-T can shrug off a Hurricane, (RC) and outspeed for an OHKO if wearing a Choice Scarf. Rotom-W and Zapdos can both invest in bulk to better handle Hurricanes. Jolteon can also switch into Hurricane, and is one of the few Pokemon in OU that can naturally outspeed Tornadus-T. Blissey fears Superpower, but can handle Choice Specs Tornadus-T without too much difficult, while Chansey can hard-wall either variant. One must always be wary of Tornadus-T's access to U-turn, though.</p>

    <p>Another effective way to neuter Tornadus-T is to remove its rain. Hurricane is much less threatening when it can't hit with much consistency, especially in sun where its accuracy is 50%. Sandstorm also deserves mention for making it a bit easier to wear down Tornadus-T, especially Life Orb variants, though switching a Tyranitar into Tornadus-T is incredibly risky, especially when said Tornadus-T has Dugtrio support. Passive damage to Tornadus-T is mostly mitigated by Regenerator, but Stealth Rock and damaging status conditions can help to wear it down, as can a Rocky Helment or Iron Barbs when it attempts to U-turn. While Stealth Rock by itself might not be enough to limit Tornadus-T over the course of a game, it at the least ensures that Tornadus-T enters battle with only 75% health, making it much easier to kill. Tornadus-T's bulk isn't overly impressive either, so chip damage as it switches into attacks also helps to weaken it. This lack of bulk is also one of Tornadus-T's biggest problems, as it allows Tornadus-T to be revenge killed without too much hassle by some threats. Choice Scarf users are a common method of revenge killing Tornadus. Choice Scarf Genesect in particular is especially prominent, and destroys Tornadus-T with Ice Beam or Thunderbolt after a Download boost. Other Choice Scarf users, such as Keldeo or Terrakion, can eliminate Tornadus-T. Priority is another way to deal with it, with special note going to Weavile and Mamoswine, as their STAB priority hits Tornadus-T for super effective damage. Weavile itself naturally outspeeds Tornadus-T, allowing it to use Ice Punch to OHKO Tornadus-T if it is running the move. Surprise attacks are also a good method of killing off Tornadus-T, such as Breloom using Stone Edge on a Tornadus-T expecting to be able to switch in on Mach Punch.</p>
  23. Bossness

    Bossness

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    440
    <ul class="damage_calculation">
    <li>Hurricane vs 0/0 Rotom-W: 51% - 60.2%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 248 HP Rotom-W: 40.6% - 47.9%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 248 HP Scizor: 91.3% - 107.9%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 252 HP Deoxys-D: 57.2% - 67.4%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 252/252 Careful Ferrothorn: 48% - 57.1%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 252/0 Skarmory: 52.1% - 61.7%</li>
    <li>Hurricane vs 252/252 Calm Gastrodon: 50% - 59.2%</li>
    <li>Focus Blast vs 252/252 Heatran: 62.2% - 73.6%</li>
    <li>Focus Blast vs 0/0 Heatran: 94.1% - 110.8%</li>
    <li>Focus Blast vs 252/252 Careful Ferrothorn:
    <li>Focus Blast vs 252/0 Magnezone: 101.2% - 119.2%</li>
    <li>Heat Wave vs 252/252 Jirachi: 52% - 61.4%</li>
    </ul>

    The damage calculation is missing.
  24. Valiant King

    Valiant King

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    Actually I'd prefer the LO set because of it's versatility:

    Tornadus-T @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    Nature: Hasty
    EVs: 4Atk/ 252SpAtk/ 252Spd
    Ivs: 30Atk 30Def
    Moves:
    - Hurricane
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Focus Blast
    - U-Turn
    That's just my opinion! :p
  25. Qwertyuiop

    Qwertyuiop

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Would it be worth mentioning that while running a Naive nature, lowering your Defense IV to 28 or 27 (if you run HP Ground) makes Genesect get a +1 Atk, so if you are at full health, Gene can't revenge you. Plus, 3 or 4 Defense points aren't too great a loss.

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