Torterra [QC 0/3]

[Gr3gory]

QC Checks: ()()()
GP Checks: ()()

Overview:

+ Hits like a truck
+ Decent Defenses at 95 / 105 / 85
+ Many moves to work with on any set
+ Only relevant pokemon in NU that resists Rock and ground types, most notably the EdgeQuake combo
- slow
- 4x weak to ice
- not so good abilities

Choice Band
########
Name: Choice Band
Move 1: Wood Hammer
Move 2: Earthquake
Move 3: Stone Edge
Move 4: Bullet Seed
Ability: Overgrow
Item: Choice Band
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Nature: Jolly

Moves
=====

• Wood Hammer is the Main STAB
• Earthquake is the Ground STAB
• Stone Edge is the coverage
• Bullet seed is for breaking sturdy golem and sash lead omastar

Set Details
============

• Overgrow can be the pinch hitter of this set
• Max Speed and Max Attack are necessary for breaking sash omastar
• Adamant can be used for extra power, but Jolly is needed for sash omastar, which run timid

Usage Tips
==========

• This pokemon should be a way to check sash leads
• Avoid Weezing and other will-o-wisp users as they can easily cripple CB Torterra by cutting the attack through burn
• Even though this is mainly a lead, it can be sent out at mid-late game

Good Teammates
==============

• Typhlosion or Magmortar: Rids of weezing and avalugg
• Steelix: Can get up stealth rock
• Lickilicky: Decent cleric

Tank
########
Name: Tank
Move 1: Wood Hammer
Move 2: Earthquake
Move 3: Stealth Rock
Move 4: Synthesis
Ability: Overgrow
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Atk / 112 Def
Nature: Adamant

Moves
=====

• Wood Hammer hits like a truck
• Earthquake covers a lot of things
• Stealth Rock can limit the amount of switches a team can make, so that can keep fire and flying types in check
• Synthesis Is the auto recovery

Set Details
===========

• 112 Defense EVs lets it to live a Ice Punch from a unboosted Feraligatr
• Shell Armor prevents critical hits
• Leftovers help with getting back HP
• You can use a 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk with Impish if you want to go really defensive

Usage Tips
===========

• Wood Hammer can help you deal major damage
• Flying types is something Torterra should switch out on
• Stealth Rock should be the first move you use since that is the only way you can damage flying types

Good Teammates
==============

• Kadabra: Takes care of weezing
• Granbull / Lickilicky: They can heal bell to alleviate burns, paras, toxic, etc.
• Fire / Steel-types: Rids ice types and such

Rock Polish
########
Name: Rock Polish
Move 1: Wood Hammer
Move 2: Earthquake
Move 3: Stone Edge
Move 4: Rock Polish
Ability: Overgrow
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
Nature: Adamant

Moves
=====

• Basically standard
• Rock Polish gives extra speed

Set Details
============

• Max Speed can allow Torterra to get a +2 speed boost faster
• Overgrow allows a pinch hitter from it
• Adamant will let it hit decently hard

Usage Tips
==========

• Rock Polish is the first move you should use.
• However, try to smash pass or something before hand

Good Teammates
==============

• Gorebyss: SmashPass support
• Magmortar: Gets down Weezing

Other Options
===========

• Seed Bomb: While It doesn't hurt as much as wood hammer, you avoid recoil.
• Superpower: hard hitting but doesn't give extra coverage
• Leech Seed: Good supportive move
• Swords Dance: A bit extra attack won't hurt
• Crunch: This can help check Psychic and Ghost types
• Roar: Can phaze Flying types and setup sweepers

Checks + Counters
===============

• Sap Sippers: Walls him and often can dent Torterra
• Ferroseed: Tanks any hit well and Torterra is basically setup fodder for him
• Ice Types: Torterra can't really take a Ice beam with either set
• Fire Types: Many carry moves that can possibly burn torterra, rendering it useless, but they have to watch for Stealth Rock and Earthquake
• Weezing: Torterra can't touch this thing

 

[Aladyyn]

The 2 sets on this analysis really should be the Tank set with SR and Choice Band

Tank: SR, wood hammer, eq, synth
CB: wood hammer, eq, stone edge, bullet seed (?)
Also Rock Polish, forgot about that one

 

[Gr3gory]

The 2 sets on this analysis really should be the Tank set with SR and Choice Band

Tank: SR, wood hammer, eq, synth
CB: wood hammer, eq, stone edge, bullet seed (?)
Also Rock Polish, forgot about that one

Thanks for the suggestions!

I'll write something up for those sets

 

[Gr3gory]

This Thread is ready for a QC check!

 

[Punchshroom]

So I'm just going to have to pick apart this analysis, bit by bit.

Overview: You should mention that Torterra is the only relevant Pokemon in NU with a resistance to both Rock and Ground.

Tank: An alternate physically defensive spread (252 HP / 252 Def @ Impish) with Toxic can be mentioned in "Set Details", with Earthquake taking out Poisons and Steels looking to absorb Toxic. You also made it seem like Stealth Rock is used only for Vivillon and Sash users, you should make the bigger (albeit obvious) implication that it inflicts passive damage SR duh, while keeping Fire- and Flying-types from switching around freely. Also for "Teammates", pretty sure that Meowstic isn't the first Psychic that comes to mind as a good Weezing response, as Magic Guard Kadabra or a Fire-type teammate can absorb Will-O-Wisp and KO with special attacks. Girafarig is completely irrelevant, and this Torterra likely does not need AgiliPass as it outspeeds very few offensive threats after +2. You should also try to incorporate more examples to deal with Torterra's issues: are you implying every team with Torterra has to carry Magmortar to deal with Ice-types as opposed to, Pyroar or Klinklang or something?

Choice Band: Choice Band Torterra absolutely needs maximum speed investment (yes, Jolly too), since Bullet Seed's biggest target in the meta is Focus Sash Omastar, who tends to run max speed @ Timid. Being able to outspeed it and KO with Bullet Seed before it Ice Beams you (with its Sash intact) is very vital to the set's success.

Rock Polish: Ironic role reversal, as this is the set that wants Adamant. Torterra is slow enough that a large variety of Scarfers can outspeed it even after a Rock Polish. Practically the only Scarfer(s) Jolly +2 Torterra can outspeed that Adamant +2 Torterra cannot would be all three Rotoms (Ghost, Ice, Flying). Unless one wants to outspeed these 3 Scarfers after using Rock Polish, using Adamant to power up Torterra's attacks against the rest of the unboosted tier seems more effective.

Other Options: Remove Outrage, Thrash, and Stockpile + Swallow. No one uses the rampaging moves unless they are STABed (and still no one uses Thrash since it has no super effective coverage), otherwise they just aren't worth it. Stockpile + Swallow is just horrendous: it takes up two moveslots, needs 3 turns to heal as much as Synthesis can in 1, and the Stockpile boosts vanish upon Swallowing. Swords Dance however, could see a mention here.

C&C: Feraligatr does not OHKO with Ice Punch (unless Life Orb), whereas Torterra OHKOes with Wood Hammer, so Torterra actually checks Gatr. You could also lump Rapidash and Typhlosion into one section, called "Fire-types" (alongside Magmortar and Pyroar). Don't forget to mention how they risk a lot by switching into Torterra directly, due to the risk of Earthquake.

 

[ryan]

Choice Band should be the first set. Wood Hammer fucks up even resists unless they're super physically bulky or they 4x resist, and it has coverage to hit whatever. Plus, Bullet Seed is godlike.

I haven't used tank or rp, but band should definitely be first. idc what set order is beyond that, but I think tank is probably slightly better. It's really hard to find things that resist edgequake, and it does that. I'd also run Overgrow on the tank set.

 

[Gr3gory]

Choice Band should be the first set. Wood Hammer fucks up even resists unless they're super physically bulky or they 4x resist, and it has coverage to hit whatever. Plus, Bullet Seed is godlike.

I haven't used tank or rp, but band should definitely be first. idc what set order is beyond that, but I think tank is probably slightly better. It's really hard to find things that resist edgequake, and it does that. I'd also run Overgrow on the tank set.

I did it in the order Aladyyn said it, but I'll swap CB and Tank around

 

[Gr3gory]

Punchshroom, fixed

 

[soulgazer]

OK so I have been using that turtle for a while, so i might aswell comment

Gregingston use this for the Tank set:

Tank
########
Name: Tank
Move 1: Wood Hammer
Move 2: Earthquake
Move 3: Stealth Rock
Move 4: Synthesis
Ability: Overgrow
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 144 Atk / 112 Def
Nature: Adamant

I have been using this EV spread for a while on my Torterra and it always did a lot of work. 252/112 lets Torterra take physical hits well enough, like for exemple it can easily take an Feraligatr's Ice Punch after one layer of Spikes and Stealth Rock:

Hide

252+ Atk Feraligatr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Torterra: 268-316 (68.02 - 80.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes

+2 252+ Atk Mystic Water Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Torterra: 255-301 (64.72 - 76.39%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes

252 Atk Archeops Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Torterra: 326-386 (82.74 - 97.96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <- 110bp Acro

252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Torterra: 271-319 (68.78 - 80.96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes

Torterra can then OHKO it with Wood Hammer. Now here's what 144 Atk Adamant do:

Hide

144+ Atk Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom: 217-256 (89.66 - 105.78%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

144+ Atk Torterra Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 350-414 (93.58 - 110.69%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

And do A LOT of dmg to anything.

If anyone has a more efficient spread, post it.

Punchshroom Torterra really doesn't need to go Impish.

Agreeing that the order should be CB->Tank->Rock Polish, and don't forget to make CB Torterra Jolly: Torterra needs Jolly to outspeeds Lead Omastar and beat it with Bullet Seed. It will sitll be able to OHKO or 2HKO the things it's used for even with Jolly so only do a little mention of Adamant in Sets Details imo.

 

[Punchshroom]

I still see Girafarig, just saying.

 

[Gr3gory]

Okay Soulgazer, adding right now

And Punchshroom, where do you see Girafarig?, thought I changed it
Edit: nvm, found and changed

 

[ryan]

Choice Band:
Be more descriptive in moves please, at least for Bullet Seed which isn't immediately obvious to people. Bullet Seed is for KOing Golem through Sturdy and Omastar through Sash. Also, specifically mention that Stone Edge hits Flying- and Bug-types that resist its STABs.

Cut the max HP is needed thing because it's running max Speed.

ok nvm, in general everything is really, really vague. Your usage tips just say "be careful and switch out of Weezing." Is this really all you think about when you're using Choice Band Torterra in a battle?

Go through and add more details here, and please don't just add empty statements to fill up space. Actually think about how you use the sets in battles and what important stuff people should know. Explain odd-looking EV spreads like the tank set's. What do the Attack EVs and Defense EVs do specifically? Tell the reader. Being succinct is good, but this is just lacking in info.

 

[watashi]

run 168 speed on rock polish for modest accelgor or maybe jolly max speed for choice scarf rotom-s

 

[Gr3gory]

run 168 speed on rock polish for modest accelgor or maybe jolly max speed for choice scarf rotom-s

I did the max speed thing, but someone *cough cough punchshroom* told me to run adamant

 

[Punchshroom]

Rock Polish: Ironic role reversal, as this is the set that wants Adamant. Torterra is slow enough that a large variety of Scarfers can outspeed it even after a Rock Polish. Practically the only Scarfer(s) Jolly +2 Torterra can outspeed that Adamant +2 Torterra cannot would be all three Rotoms (Ghost, Ice, Flying). Unless one wants to outspeed these 3 Scarfers after using Rock Polish, using Adamant to power up Torterra's attacks against the rest of the unboosted tier seems more effective.

I did mention what Jolly does. As for Adamant, I just never said how much Speed is needed.

 

[Gr3gory]

Well sorry.

 

[Gr3gory]

waiting for QC checks

 

[Raseri]

Gr3gory, I'd appreciate it if you expanded on this skeleton a bit. I think the sets are good, but the information about them.

Like why just mention Steelix as a stealth rock setter? Is there something special about it that makes it worth mentioning above everything else?
Kadabra looks really out of place as well, as there are many better Psychic-types in the tier that also take out Weezing.

So please rework this a bit and be more thorough, so we can QC it better!

 

[Punchshroom]

Raseri

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/nu-c-c-index-reserves-analyses-here.3514820/page-8#post-5696002
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/nu-c-c-index-reserves-analyses-here.3514820/page-8#post-5696002
Check urself before u rek urself

 

[Raseri]

This is why I need to remember to move these threads earlier