the nattorei you mention 50% of the time carries protect so it avoids the 2hko...and specs sets can be walled after you send nattorei in to scout the move(even if this requires almost sacrifising itself to do so).
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Torunerosu
- Thread starter diamondfan1910
- Start date
Without Gyroball Nattorei is set up bait, Tornelos can just Taunt, grab another Bulk Up and 2 hit ko when Nattorei comes in on the first on the Bulk Up set while Powerwhip alone does laughable damage.
Edit-oops, you were responding to Specs but the point still stands about the Bulk Up set laughing at non Gyro Nattorei.
uh, what? Ferrothorn switches in (6.25% from Stealth Rock). Specs Hurricane deals 52.8% minimum. Leftovers activate (heal 6.25%). Ferrothorn is at 47.2%. Ferrothorn Protects, Leftovers activate (heal 6.25%). Ferrothorn is at 53.45%. Remember, the MIN amount Hurricane does is 52.8%... you are most likely going to be KOed in two turns unless you get extremely lucky with both damage rolls and Protect activating twice in a row (and at that point your Ferrothorn is basically dead and useless against rain sweepers).
I don't think it's necessarily outclassed by Thundurus, either. Flying has excellent offensive coverage (especially in a fighting-centered metagame), and Tornadus gets strong STABs on both sides of the spectrum, along with useful support moves like Tailwind.
People were blinded by the fact that flying has bad coverage so it sucks. It isnt. Flying has good coverage and resist pools and it has many great move.
What it lack is good pokemon, offensively(stares at Staraptor, pretty much the only good offensive flying along honchkrow that use and have good STAB flying move in Standard)
And this thing(like raptor) have great covering to STAB flying. So, even though he is outclassed typing wise by Volt, competitively, he isnt outclassed at all.
Thunder Spam(with specs no less) is risky in this meta
What it lack is good pokemon, offensively(stares at Staraptor, pretty much the only good offensive flying along honchkrow that use and have good STAB flying move in Standard)
And this thing(like raptor) have great covering to STAB flying. So, even though he is outclassed typing wise by Volt, competitively, he isnt outclassed at all.
Thunder Spam(with specs no less) is risky in this meta
Precisely, nothing is immune to Hurricane while plenty of stuff is immune to Thunder (Volt Absorb, Lightningrod, Ground types, Motor Drive). Considering only Electric, Rock, and Steel resist Flying it becomes a lot easier to spam attacks. Electric types resist Electric too, so that's not really an issue of coverage. The only Rock types that are used often enough are Tyranitar and Terakion, the latter of which doesn't even resist flying. Tyranitar hates Focus Blast, and Thunder would have shitty accuracy in the sand just like Hurricane anyway. Steel types generally don't have the special defense to take 2 Hurricanes. IMO this is the best Specs cleaner this generation.
That and before Acrobat, Flying in general had pretty bad moves (barring Brave Bird limited to Skarmory, Honchkrow, and Staraptor, of which only Skarmory was definite OU and Honckrow/Staraptor failed because of crappy defenses and "Stealth Rock"). I mean, outside of the very limited Brave Bird, you have two turn moves Fly/Bounce (yeah, good luck with that, obviously you could take advantage of those a mile away, although at least Bounce had a 30% of paralysis which would suck for the opponent), Drill Peck (also limited), Air Slash and Air Cutter. Yeah, not very great moves and most birds either had bad attack, bad defenses, or both which despite their great speed, didn't put them at the top. (Swellow is pretty good but needs Guts to even reach a decent attack score and Staraptor is phenomenal but still weak defenses and could be outrun).
The best birds until now have always been Flying/Dragon, Flying/Electric, and Gyrados. But it was not because of the attacking potential of the flying, but from the defensive side.
Tornelos continues the tradition of bleh defenses but they can work, especially since unlike previous attempts, he has amazing speed faster than 110 which is a big deal as well as aweinspiring attacking stats and awesome stabs to actually use on both sides, a 120 special and 110 physical flying with no negative side effect (unless you count 70% accuracy in normal weather or not being able to use Life Orb a crippling side effect).
As a Specs/Mixed/Physical attacker, he seems scarier than Thundurus since few resist Flying and no immunites unlike Thunder which you don't want to lock in Specs and very little can safely switch in on Tornelos while slightly more can do Thundurus. I like using Thundurus for the ability to use Priority Thunderwaves to prevent unfortunate Shell Smash/Dragon Dance/etc sweeps as well as to break other Thundurus or anything fast without an immunity. Tornelos seems more the attacking type and actually is trickier since it has the potential of more sets from special/physical/mixed/Rain Team support/TailWind/etc.
The best birds until now have always been Flying/Dragon, Flying/Electric, and Gyrados. But it was not because of the attacking potential of the flying, but from the defensive side.
Tornelos continues the tradition of bleh defenses but they can work, especially since unlike previous attempts, he has amazing speed faster than 110 which is a big deal as well as aweinspiring attacking stats and awesome stabs to actually use on both sides, a 120 special and 110 physical flying with no negative side effect (unless you count 70% accuracy in normal weather or not being able to use Life Orb a crippling side effect).
As a Specs/Mixed/Physical attacker, he seems scarier than Thundurus since few resist Flying and no immunites unlike Thunder which you don't want to lock in Specs and very little can safely switch in on Tornelos while slightly more can do Thundurus. I like using Thundurus for the ability to use Priority Thunderwaves to prevent unfortunate Shell Smash/Dragon Dance/etc sweeps as well as to break other Thundurus or anything fast without an immunity. Tornelos seems more the attacking type and actually is trickier since it has the potential of more sets from special/physical/mixed/Rain Team support/TailWind/etc.
BurningMan
fueled by beer
Specially Defensive Jirachi, SDef Skarmory, Metagross and (lol) Registeel would like to have a word with you :P though only the first one is commonly used to counter Latios and Skarmory could be 2HKOed given some prior Damage.
But yeah Nattorei, Scizor and Forry can`t really take those attacks (SDef Scizor could take one and threaten with Bullet Punch/Pursuit but its one time use at best unless it has roost but then it lacks pursuit).
Its biggest Threats are Priority Attacks outside of Mach Punch, TTar (clearly because Focus Blast always misses when you predict the switch in) and SDef Jirachi (who , pity my risk management, also proceeds to paraflinch through every counter thanks to 100% para chance Bodyslam and the fact that you will always be fully paralized on the first turn(yeah i am a whining bitch)).
I don't think LO sets would like to use hammer arm (except for the novelty fator), because it basically FORCES Tornelos to switch out. In other words, it means another round of SR, meaning it would be, in a best case scenario, at 37,5% HP (12,5 from 2 turns of SS, 50 from 2 SRs and 10 from a Single LO hit). Also, it lacks the crushing power the Specs set hs.
Hmm, I might try the BU set. Mind sharing it?
I don't run Rain, so a special set seems pretty risky with two 70% accuracy moves.
I have a spot on my team that I could spare ATM.
I've been using Gliscor, but I'm really only using him as a secondary Excadrill check as Slowbro deals with him just fine.
I don't run Rain, so a special set seems pretty risky with two 70% accuracy moves.
I have a spot on my team that I could spare ATM.
I've been using Gliscor, but I'm really only using him as a secondary Excadrill check as Slowbro deals with him just fine.
Bulk Up
Acrobat
Brick Break
Taunt
Using Flight Jewl which will always gurantee ohkoes on Latios, Latias, Scizor after Bulk Up; 2 hit ko Hippowdon/Suicune etc with Acrobat (with Flight Jewl)....it is a really awesome set only resisted by Zapdos/Voltlos (although standard Voltlos and offensive Zapdos can actually be 2 hit koed with with Acrobat after Bulk Up assuming you still have Flight Jewl for one of them, Voltlos being ohkoed with Stealth Rock!)
Do you have the EVs? I tried that exact same set out and it was pretty underwhelming. I could never set up.
Really? Granted it's not bulky but surely there must be something it can switch in on and threaten out with it's flying moves that will allow you to grab a Bulk Up and go from there. Choice Scarf Tyranitar and anything faster might give you problems but priority users will be getting smashed by it's boosted Acrobats and stuff. Also, they can't Mischievious Heart Paralysis you because of Taunt. It's an interesting alternative to the obvious special attacker and pulls it off with surprise since the things that can switch in on the special attacker can't switch in on the Bulk Up Acrobat (although special attacking Choice Scarfers afterwards will be annoying and force you out).
breh
強いだね
I'm just going to point out that Thundurus and Tornadus serve completely different purposes; it's hard to say one outclasses the other.
Actually, while they are pretty similar, all you're doing is taking a few moves (Volt Change, T-bolt/Thunder, and Nasty Plot) in exchange for Hurricane (also resistance to a few types, most of which are irrelevant (Flying) or predictable (Steel; not to say that resisting Scizor BP is bad)).
Hurricane is actually pretty cool though IMO and does make Tornadus worth using. A 15% chance to make your opponent effectively flinch is nice too. Realistically, though, the huge neutrality and lack of immunities that Hurricane has is what makes it cooler than Thunder, allowing you to use Specs with relative safety.
BU set is interesting to say the least.
Actually, while they are pretty similar, all you're doing is taking a few moves (Volt Change, T-bolt/Thunder, and Nasty Plot) in exchange for Hurricane (also resistance to a few types, most of which are irrelevant (Flying) or predictable (Steel; not to say that resisting Scizor BP is bad)).
Hurricane is actually pretty cool though IMO and does make Tornadus worth using. A 15% chance to make your opponent effectively flinch is nice too. Realistically, though, the huge neutrality and lack of immunities that Hurricane has is what makes it cooler than Thunder, allowing you to use Specs with relative safety.
BU set is interesting to say the least.
I think it is somewhat silly to compare the two, as running both on the same team can be very powerful. Yet in all truth, I find Thundurus a more threatening pokemon. With a STAB Thunderbolt, fantastic speed, access to Nasty Plot, and a devastating priority Thunder Wave that can halt many sweeps short, I fear Thundurus far more than its pure-flying brethren.
The point of using Tornadus over Thundurus is for Hurricane.
it wouldn be better it is just the most used set...max hp toxicroak with bulk up works very good in rain 'cause of the healing you have with rain and protect,priority with sucker punch,nice attack and a lot of handy reistances to abuse!the swords dance set is frail and believe me i have won teams 6-0 beacause after ur opponent has no more eartquakers or psychics(and even them if you can kill them with sucker punch)it is very hard to take this poke down when you are have 3 leftovers healing you each turn and also drain punch!
I've used Sub+BU outside of rain. Its really epic. Balanced teams generally depend upon stuff like Garchomp/RotomW/Priority/Status to stop this thing, and virtually no one uses Zapdos(wonder why?). Its amazing considering your set is dead obvious and you only need to sub up once(or sometimes twice) to erase their check with an insanely high powered acrobat first up. Yeah some people use Jolteon/Scarf Rotom/Raikou as well which are annoying because of Volt Change. I personally use a dugtrio to get rid of them as they volt change, but there are other methods of luring out and killing them(mainly hazards).
The only problem with Tornadus is that it doesn't have much of a movepool. On the physical side, it's got Acrobatics, U-turn, Crunch, Brick Break and Hammer Arm as viable moves. On the special side, it's got Hurricane, Air Slash, Focus Blast and Dark Pulse. Crunch and Dark Pulse may not be viable enough, IMO.
Does anyone know how much attack evs tornadus needs to ohko tyranitar with brick break?
Hurricane + Dark Pulse + Focus Blast makes a great nasty plot set.
Acrobatics + Crunch + Hammer Arm with Flight Gem makes an awesome physical attacker!
Yes, it would make for a great Nasty Plot sweeper if it could learn Nasty Plot.