Tous Pour Un, Un Pour Tous (Dark Horse) [Peaked 23rd] (Update on post #14)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Katakiri, Feb 18, 2012.

  1. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
    is a Pokemon Researcher

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2010
    Messages:
    946
    Tous Pour Un, Un Pour Tous
    (All For One, One For All)

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Hello!
    This is a team with the "gimmick" of using all 3 of the Musketeers successfully; a task I believe I accomplished. What was originally a simple dark horse challenge team as became my main team for laddering as well as one of my most successful, reaching (and easily at that) the top 30 of PO while Smogon was down/lagging for the past few days, and I honestly wouldn't have it any other way at this point. I'll make sure to post my Smogon peak when I do some more laddering now that it's not lagging anymore. It's a very fun team and with as far as I've taken this challenge, calling it a "gimmick" now would be an insult as it has become much more than that. But I'll leave you to read & discover that for yourself.



    Team Building

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    It's pretty easy to build a team when 3 of your members are set in stone. But oh is it hard to pick teammates to compliment them.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I decided to cut straight to the throat and eliminate the majority of my Musketeer's weaknesses in one fell swoop with Slowbro.
    Believe it or not, but Mandibuzz was the next Pokemon even before Tyranitar. I needed something potent to handle Gengar and Latios. Mandibuzz is about as potent as you're gonna get against those 2.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Necturna was the obvious next choi- Ah, just joking.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Tyranitar was the next choice. 3 Pokemon immune to Sand with no Stealth Rocker and a bit of a Scizor weakness. (before move-sets we finalized) Seemed like a perfect fit.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Now there were a few other Pokemon before Mew like Latias, but they all suffered from the same factor: they were easy to set-up on and easy to Pursuit. Mew, however, is neither of those things.



    Team Breakdown

    [​IMG]
    "But that is not the name of a man; it is the name of a mountain!" - Bastille guard to Athos

    Athos (Cobalion) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Close Combat
    - Roar
    - Taunt

    This is Defensive Cobalion. Anyone that's read my OU analysis for this guy knows that I've beaten this point into the ground, but for those that haven't read it, Cobalion has more Physical bulk than Dialga. Not even Skarmory can touch his Defenses. +1 Dragonite Fire Punch is only a 3HKO, Landorus Earthquake in Sand can't OHKO, Terrakion Close Combat can't OHKO, the hits he can tank are just unreal. With that said, Cobalion is my go-to Physical Wall. x4 SR resistance & immunity to Toxic Spikes makes him very easy to bring into battle. STAB Close Combat separates him from your average physical wall as he is the only true Fighting-Type Physical Wall in the game. A base 90 Sp.Attack Hidden Power Ice puts a heavy dent in Landorus, Gliscor, and most Dragons even with a hindering nature. A fast Taunt turns Skarmory into a piece of junk while Roar lets Cobalion get rid of all the set-up sweepers that trouble the team.

    You would think that a wall would need a recovery move, but when you x4 resist Stealth Rocks, you really don't need one at all. Lefovers heals 6% & SR does 3% so Cobalion is one of the few walls that actually has more HP after a SR switch. Cobalion forces so many switches that he's never below 50% of his HP for too long at all. I'd compare it to having the Regenerator ability, but that might be stretching it a little. But the point is that he doesn't need extra recovery.


    [​IMG]

    "You, boy, are arrogant, hot tempered and entirely too bold. I like that. Reminds me of me." - Porthos

    Porthos (Terrakion) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide

    Scarf Terrakion. What a mean Pokemon. He revenges pretty much anything but other Scarf Terrakion. Add the Sp.Def boost from Sandstorm & Mew luring in Dark-type moves to give Terrakion his Justified boost and you're looking at a pretty big threat. X-Scissor hits Celebi while Rock Slide provides a slightly more reliable Rock-type move for finishing off foes. Unfortunately, being Choice-locked means Skarmory & Forretress can actually set up on something on this team. But that's really the only downside to this guy. He helps in dealing with Fire-types like Heatran, Darmanitan, & Volcarona as well as revenging nearly any +1 Speed sweeper like Gyarados, Salamence, & Dragonite. He's just an overall great Pokemon. Not a lot else to say about it.


    [​IMG]*Leo Strut*

    "I hope your sword is as quick as your mouth." - Aramis

    Aramis (Virizion) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Giga Drain
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    The final musketeer of the trio: Calm Mind Virizion. There's mot much to say about the set because it's so standard. Calm Mind up them get KO'd because Focus Blast missed 3 times in a row. Pretty standard. Virizion does give me a much needed Water & Electric resistance as well a a Pokemon to take a burn. Giga Drain is an extremely valuable asset to the team, as it is the only move on the team Super Effective against Ground-types. Hidden Power Ice is for Dragonite & Gliscor. Due to his great coverage, Virizion is also a Pokemon that is very hard to set-up against. With a main part of my core weak to SR, keeping it off the field is the most beneficial thing I could do for the entire team.


    [​IMG]

    "I may not wear the tunic, but I believe I have the heart of a Musketeer." - d'Artagnan

    d'Artagnan (Mew) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Softboiled
    - Psychic

    While Keldeo may be the true d'Artagnan, the Musketeers protect as well as rely on Mew far more than they would Keldeo. Mew LOVES this team. 5 Dark Resistances with one being x4 resistant, 3 Justified Pokemon with Physical Attacks, 3 Ghost Resistances, and a x2 and a x4 Bug Resistance. It doesn't take much to figure out that any Psychic-type would love to be a part of this team. But with all of those perks provided by it's teammates, what does Mew do in return? Mew solves my otherwise glaring Fighting-type weakness. Taunt-WoW Mew is already a very self-sufficient Pokemon but when given the perfect partners in Cobalion & Mandibuzz, this trio can be enraging. Mandibuzz can take any Special Attack, Mew can take any Physical Attack OU throws at it, and Cobalion covers all of Mew's weaknesses and x4 resists 2 of them as well as covering most of Mandibuzz's weaknesses.


    Taunt keeps things from setting up or spreading status, often leaving Pokemon entirely open to the rest if my team. Will-O-Wisp shuts down Physical Attackers, softening hits from enraged Dragons so Cobalion can wall them with greater ease. Psychic lets Mew get rid of all the Fighting and Poison-types that plague the team. Mew and Terrakion have fantastic synergy as Terrakion breaks down anything Mew can't harm while Mew protects him from priority.



    [​IMG]

    "There are those who oppose these powerful forces, who dedicate their lives to truth, honor, and freedom. These men are known as Musketeers." - King Louis XIII

    Louis XIII (Tyranitar) (M) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 156 SAtk / 100 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Crunch
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast


    This set started as a variation of Tyranitar's Lure set from 4th Gen but quickly turned into a much more offense-invested Tyranitar. Pursuit doesn't have the punch that Crunch which made Tyranitar much more threatening to Pokemon that aren't Latios. Earthquake helps against CM Jirachi, Tentacruel, & Heatran. The EVs let Tyranitar out-pace standard Skarmory as well as give him just enough Sp.Attack to OHKO Ferrothorn. Stealth Rocks are obligatory. The oddity of this set is Shed Shell. Because Dugtrio easily traps Tyranitar as it's setting up SR, assuming it has a Focus Sash, it can ALWAYS switch-in & remove Tyranitar for free and since Tyranitar is the one setting up SR, his Focus Sash will always be intact. That was far & away the biggest problem I had with Sun teams and really any team with Dugtrio on it. It may seem like a waste of an item slot, but believe me, it's completely worth it.


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    "There's no queen of America!" " I beg to differ, infant. We're on quite intimate terms, unless you can prove otherwise." - d'Artagnan & Porthos

    Queen of America (Mandibuzz) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overcoat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Knock Off
    - Brave Bird
    - Taunt
    - Roost

    Rounding off my Fighting-Psychic-Dark core, what I believe to be the most underrated Pokemon in the entire game bar none. She's immune to Sandstorm and deceptively bulky; easily taking Landorus Stone Edge & endless Volt Switches from Rotom-W. That's right, she's a Flying-type with little to no fear of Electric Attacks; Skarmory eat your heart out. She flat-out walls a lot of Special Attackers in OU unless they hold a Life Orb or Choice Specs, which brings me to her first move: Knock Off. You might be thinking that with Toxic, U-Turn, Tailwind, and all these useful moves in her arsenal, why would I choose Knock Off? Well like I said, she has no problem taking unboosted attacks so knocking off Politoed's Choice Specs or Starmie's Life Orb pretty much means that they'll never be able to 2HKO her so she can chip away with Brave Bird & Roost herself back to full health. She also has a great Base 80 Speed, making her out-pace CB Scizor and I'm sure you know what happens there. Scizor without a Choice Band isn't very threatening at all to this team and very often, I'll knock off it's item turn 1 so I'll have no problem with it later.


    But Knock Off isn't just for Offensive Pokemon, Defensive Pokemon hate having their Leftovers & Eviolite taken away. No Leftovers means that Stealth Rock & Sand damage add up very quickly making Knock Off a better choice than Toxic for building up damage in most cases. Taunt is what makes this Pokemon great. A lot of Pokemon think they can set up on her and everything will be fine, but Taunt is a nasty surprise for them. It makes SD Scizor, Ferrothorn, and even Tyranitar (if it tries to set up Rocks) pretty much dead weight to their team. Surprisingly enough Brave Bird has become Mandibuzz's ace in the hole because she never really uses the move so it will often lure in a Pokemon that it weak to it that doesn't expect it, netting some surprise KOs on Volcarona & Toxicroak.



    Threat List
    Offensive Threats (open)

    [​IMG] Tyranitar:

    • Choice Band - Nope.
    • Choice Scarf - Because I have
    • Dragon Dance - many Fighting-types.

    [​IMG] Rotom-W:

    • Choice Scarf / Specs - Mandibuzz Knocks Off it's item then Virizion cleans up.

    [​IMG] Scizor:

    • Choice Band - Mandibuzz Knocks Off it's item then Virizion cleans up.
    • Swords Dance - Mew burns, Cobalion walls & Tyranitar can Fire Blast after Burn, Virizion & Mandibuzz can take him down too.

    [​IMG] Dragonite:

    • Choice Band - Cobalion
    • Dragon Dance - Cobalion
    • Mixed - Mandibuzz
    • Parashuffler - Mew Syncronizes then Mew, Cobalion, & Mandibuzz proceed to Taunt the shit out of it.

    [​IMG] Politoed:

    • Choice Specs / Scarf - Mandibuzz ruins this thing with Knock Off turn 1. Not even a threat as long as she's around.

    [​IMG] Heatran:

    • Standard - Fighting-type moves for days and Mandibuzz walls but can only really Knock Off it's item.
    • Lava Plume Variants - A lot tougher to deal with as I have nothing that can really take a burn and they love to switch in on Mew & Mandibuzz

    [​IMG] Jirachi:

    • Substitute + Calm Mind / Wish + Calm Mind - Actually kind of a threat. Terrakion can EQ it and Virizion & Cobalion can Close Combat but there's nothing solid that can wall and counter it.

    [​IMG] Latios:

    • Life Orb - My girl, Mandibuzz,
    • Choice Scarf / Specs - walls this Pokemon
    • Calm Mind - and Tyranitar helps.

    [​IMG] Reuniclus:

    • Calm Mind - Can't touch Mew
    • Offensive Trick Room - Loses to Mandibuzz because Trick Room makes Roost go second so she stays Flying-type.

    [​IMG] Haxorus:

    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Cobalion & Mew
    • Dragon Dance - Cobalion & Mew
    • Double Dance - Cobalion & Mew but anyone can take it down with residual from SR & Sandstorm going on.

    [​IMG] Ninetales:

    • Nasty Plot -Tyranitar, Terrakion, & Mandibuzz.
    • Choice Specs - Copy, Paste.
    • Special Attacker - Copy, Paste.

    [​IMG] Conkeldurr:

    • Bulk Up - Mew

    [​IMG] Celebi:

    • Nasty Plot Sweeper - Mandibuzz~
    • Tinkerbell - Mandibuzz~
    • Choice Specs / Choice Scarf - Does whatever a buzzard can~

    [​IMG] Terrakion:

    • Double Dance - Mew
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Mew & Cobalion. Cobalion just doesn't know the meaning of Super Effective.

    [​IMG] Gyarados:

    • Offensive / Bulky Dragon Dance - Mew & Cobalion wall this guy just fine.

    [​IMG] Gengar:

    • Substitute + Disable / Pain Split - Mandibuzz salivate when she sees this thing in team preview. Using Gengar with her around is like starting the battle with only 5 Pokemon.

    [​IMG] Starmie:

    • Life Orb - Mandibuzz
    • Rapid Spin - walls
    • Choice Specs - forever.

    [​IMG] Landorus:

    • Rock Polish / Swords Dance - Cobalion HP Ice cripples it then Mew or even Terrakion with it's Balloon can clean up.
    • Choice Scarf - Same
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - Same

    [​IMG] Infernape:

    • Mixed Attacker - Mandibuzz
    • Nasty Plot / Swords Dance Booster - Mandibuzz
    • Choice Band - Mew

    [​IMG] Volcarona:

    • Offensive Quiver Dance - Walls insects, any size~
    • Bulky Quiver Dance - Catches prey just like flies~
    • Chesto Rest - Look out~!
    • Substitute - Here comes the Mandibuzz~

    [​IMG] Magnezone:

    • Substitute - Nothing really walls it, but I have so many Fighting-types that I honestly don't even care.
    • Choice Scarf - ^

    [​IMG] Espeon:

    • Calm Mind - Mandibuzz

    [​IMG] Salamence:

    • Dragon Dance - Mew & Cobalion
    • Mixed - Mandibuzz
    • Defensive - Mew

    [​IMG] Hydreigon:

    • Offensive - Mandibuzz
    • Choice Specs / Choice Scarf - God Mandibuzz is so horribly underrated.

    [​IMG] Breloom:

    • Sub Seed - Have Tyranitar take the Spore, then wall & KO with Mew.
    • Sub Punch - ^

    [​IMG] Latias:

    • Calm Mind - Mandibuzz & Tyranitar tag-team this thing

    [​IMG] Toxicroak:

    • Swords Dance - AhahahahaMew
    • Bulk Up - Mew

    [​IMG] Lucario:

    • Swords Dance - Terrakion
    • Nasty Plot - Mandibuzz...but why would anyone use Nasty Plot Lucario? It's bad & you should feel bad.

    [​IMG] Virizion:

    • Calm Mind - Mandibuzz
    • Swords Dance - Mandibuzz or Mew

    [​IMG] Scrafty:

    • Dragon Dance - I laughed a little.
    • Bulk Up - Scrafty's bad, go to UU please. But if you must know, Mandibuzz, Mew, & Cobalion destroy both of these sets.

    [​IMG] Venusaur:

    • Special Growth - Mandibuzz
    • Mixed Growth - Mandibuzz
    • SubSeed - Mandibuzz

    [​IMG] Metagross:

    • Stealth Rock - Mew
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Mew
    • Agility - Mew

    [​IMG] Mienshao:

    • All-Out Attacker - Mew
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band - Mew

    [​IMG] Cloyster:

    • Shell Smash - Cobalion walls even at +2.

    [​IMG] Mamoswine:

    • Physical Attacker - Mew, Cobalion, & Terrakion can handle it.

    [​IMG] Darmanitan:

    • Choice Scarf - I've really got nothing for this guy.

    [​IMG] Tornadus:

    • Rain Abuser - Tyranitar & Mandibuzz can control this force of nature decently well. Mandibuzz may have issues if SR is up.
    Defensive Threats (open)

    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Specially Defensive - Terrible set, don't use it.
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Standard -Knock Off the Lefties & watch the damage build up.
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn:
    • Standard - Taunt then destroy, not a threat at all.
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Defensive - Virizion handles it pretty nicely.
    [​IMG] Gliscor:
    • Swords Dance - Cobalion
    • Substitute + Protect - Cobalion
    • AcroBat - Cobalion
    • Defensive - Cobalion
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Specially Defensive - Hit it with Close Combat & Superpower until it dies
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Specially Defensive - Same as the offensive sets. I'll have Mew Synchronize or Burn if I can but I don't have a solid counter.
    [​IMG] Skarmory:

    • Physically Defensive Spiker -Cobalion, Mew, Mandibuzz, Virizion, & Tyranitar pretty much ensure Skarmory isn't doing anything.
    • Specially Defensive Spiker - ^That.
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Specially Defensive - Burn is annoying but only Cobalion is a safe switch-in for her so it evens out.
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Physically Defensive - Mandibuzz
    [​IMG] Forretress:
    • Physically Defensive Spiker - Same as Ferrothorn;
    • Specially Defensive Spiker - Taunt then blow it away.
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • RestTalk - Mew, Cobalion, & Terrakion can handle it.
    [​IMG] Jellicent:
    • Utility Counter - Knock Off it's Lefties then just keep if from Recovering. There's not a lot it can do.
    [​IMG] Tentacruel:
    • Toxic Spikes - Taunt then Psychic or Earthquake. If it does get a layer of Toxic Spikes up, I have Mew take a dive in the Layer 1 to avoid getting badly poisoned later.
    [​IMG] Gastrodon:
    • Tank - Virizion's got this, Mew makes it think twice about using Toxic.
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Dual Screens - Mandibuzz just continually uses Knock Off so nothing can safely come in & keep it's item. It also lets me scout what set the switch-in is running by looking at it's item & putting two & two together.
    • Baton Pass - Brave Bird the shit out of this thing, then Taunt when I know it will Baton Pass to prevent the chain from going any further.
    [​IMG] Blissey:
    • Support - Anything it could possible come in on has Taunt. It might as well just kill itself because it will never be able to do anything else.
    [​IMG] Vaporeon:
    • Wish Support - Taunt then smack the Lefties off her. She can't do anything to Mandibuzz.
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Support - Annoying. I don't have much that can KO this thing. So Knock Off & residual damage tends to be my best shot.
    [​IMG] Bronzong:
    • Tank - Taunt & Wall
    • Dual Screens - Taunt & Wall
    [​IMG] Swampert:
    • Defensive - Go to Virizion. Mew & Mandibuzz can handle themselves.
    [​IMG] Mew:
    • Stallbreaker - Notice the 36 Speed EVs on my Mew compared to the 32 EVs in the analysis. I'm such a jerk.
    [​IMG] Slowbro:
    • Tank - Those are some nice Lefties you've got there. Would be a shame if something were to happen to them~
    [​IMG] Quagsire:
    • Curse - Virizion
    • Specially Defensive - Virizion
    • Physically Defensive - Virizion

    Overview

    Rather than putting the overview at the beginning, I chose to put this at the end where I know you should have a much better understanding of the team by now. So as you could see, this team is based around a Fighting-Psychic-Dark Core of Cobalion, Mew, & Mandibuzz. What you may not have noticed is that the team is extremely Anti-Entry Hazard and more Specifically, Anti-Ferrothorn, Skarmory, & Tyranitar. It is extremely hard to set-up with 3 Pokemon with Taunt or sheer brute force with Fire Blast, HP Fire, & 3 Pokemon with STAB Close Combat. Because of those same factors, Stall has an extremely hard time against this team.

    This team isn't about sweeping nor stalling. It's about controlling the battle at all times, making them play by my rules. Removing items being a key factor in that as well as Taunt preventing hazards & stat-boosting. Now I will use brute force to sweep and I will stall if necessary, but only on my own terms. I'm never in a rush to pick apart a team so I can play safe & let residual damage take it's toll on the opposing team before I make my move. But again the biggest factor is that I don't let my opponent make their move. So as part of that, keeping Sand up is essential as it breaks down Pokemon over time which helps Mandibuzz & Mew seem all the more threatening even with no real offensive presence.

    But at the end of the day, the Musketeers do their jobs flawlessly albeit for a few accuracy issues with Focus Blast & Stone Edge. But you can't ask for much more than that in this crazy metagame.


    Importable (open)
    Louis XIII (Tyranitar) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 16 SAtk / 240 Spd
    Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower
    - Fire Blast


    Athos (Cobalion) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Close Combat
    - Roar
    - Taunt


    Porthos (Terrakion) @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge


    Aramis (Virizion) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 168 Atk / 228 SAtk / 112 Spd
    Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
    - Work Up
    - Close Combat
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]


    d'Artagnan (Mew) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Softboiled
    - Psychic


    Queen Anne (Mandibuzz) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overcoat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Knock Off
    - Brave Bird
    - Taunt
    - Roost


  2. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,176
    I must say, this is a great team using some highly unused pokes. I have used Mandibuzz in RU and UU before, and Knock Off is wonderful. I was wondering, however, that perhaps a Scarf Terrakion could be considered, to outspeed threats that set up and sweep late game (When Cobalion is weakened) This would give you insurance and against Volca, Dragonite, and other set-up sweepers. Also, if the Scizor Bullet Punches, using Naive nature over Hasty nature on Tyranitar would allow you to take a hit if you are at full health (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Otherwise, very good team.
  3. ginganinja

    ginganinja Goodbye
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

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    Yep played this team twice now with the same team. (once before changes and once against after).

    Just pointing out that both times Rotom W proves a problem since it just spams WoW and cripples whatever you switch in, and then builds momentum with Volt Switch. There is'nt too much you can do to fix this bar doing what was suggested (make Virizion CM which I saw you testing) which lessens the problem slightly. I have no idea what HP you run on the CM Virizion I saw but id still suggest running HP Ice since Focus Blast does a fair bit to Scizor on the switch anyway. Its up to you tho I guess

    Nice Team
  4. Question1

    Question1

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    12
    have you tried sableye? it sounds like a perfect fit filling in the place of mew and that bird, and can replace the extra slot w/ hydro or dragonite for more offenssive power. or is it it's kinda low stats not to your standards?
  5. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,428
    I just thought I would say that this team is absolutely brilliant. I haven't seen a single team to date use cobalion or mandibuzz efficiently like this, so major, major props for that.

    That said do you find any trouble versus CB Terrakion? It 2HKOes your entire team with just STAB moves and X-Scissor, and it can take out quite a few Pokemon if it predicts correctly. Furthermore any attempts by Mandibuzz to knock off its item are futile considering that CB Close Combat 2HKOes (does something like 70% on average). With Mandibuzz out of the way a whole host of threats can take on this team, in particular SubDisable Gengar, who can wear your team out pretty quickly. Also Choice Specs Politoed 2HKOes Mandibuzz with SR and 2HKOes virizion as well, so that could be pretty tough to handle.
  6. Motagua

    Motagua El Ciclón Azul

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2009
    Messages:
    190
    Really nice team you made with 3 fixed pokemons and 2 underrated pokemons like Mew & Mandibuzz. However, I do see Sun Teams with proper support being a trouble to this team. Even if you take Tyranitar out against a Ninetales, most of them will stay and burn T-tar considering most of them in 5th gen are slow (you made a point in your thread). To somehow fix this problem, I would suggest to run Stone Edge instead of Superpower and a Lum Berry instead of Leftovers. Since you got 3 Fighting-type pokemons, there is no need to run Superpower on Tyranitar since Terrakion can switch on him all day long (fuck Lava Plume burn). A Lum Berry will allow you to mimic a Choice set and score a surprise KO on Ninetales if it stays and tries to burn you with WoW. Also your luring purposes wont be lost since players will expect a Chople Berry Tyranitar if the Lum Berry is still unrevealed.

    I do see some problems if Growth Venusaur manages to set-up because at +2 it will OHKO anything in your team. (LO +2 Sludge Bomb KOs Mandibuzz after SR). I would definitely suggest to test a Choice Band Dragonite in your team, although its hard to fit him in because your team-members do their job efficiently.

    Overall nice job making this team and keep it up. :]
  7. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    Alright so there's been some changes. Huge thanks to everyone in the RMT Workshop for suggesting most of these changes!

    Louis XIII (Tyranitar) (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 156 SAtk / 100 Spd
    Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Crunch
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast

    While not actually suggested, the workshop mentioned that I already had more than enough Scizor checks which was very true so I really don't need to have Tyranitar beating him anymore so I decided to use a slightly more "Boah-ish" set. It has enough Sp.Attack to OHKO Standard Ferrothorn and Max Attack to make it actually threatening which is where most Mixed sets fail. 100 Speed out-paces standard Skarmory, Crunch breaks Reuniclus, EQ breaks CM Jirachi. It's far from perfect but it's working far better than my old set. The Lum Berry was suggested by Motagua, above me. Believe me when I say that if any of you suggest a change, I always give it a shot.

    Porthos (Terrakion) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide

    The workshop hit the nail right on the head with this one. This set fixed a lot of problems. The only issue is that things like Skarmory & Forretress can set up on Terrakion now.

    Aramis (Virizion) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Giga Drain
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Once again, this is a set the workshop suggested and it works fantastically. Focus Blast is the worst thing ever and the whole reason I was using Work Up, but the Sp.Def boost from CM tends to make up for it. Well it was that and the fact CC gets boosted by Justified, but it's not that big of a loss.



    But there are still a few problems. For one, I hate Tyranitar with a passion. My Tyranitar that is. Sand Stream is the ONLY reason I want this thing on my team. Hippowdon at least doesn't share as many common weaknesses. The problem is, Hippowdon has no way of dealing with Skarmory without running a bass-ackwards set of Brave with 200 SpAtk EVs & HP Fire. It's a absolute shame that Hippowdon doesn't get Taunt because he actually can out-pace Skarmory by investing in some Speed and I'd be crazy enough to try it. But Tyranitar himself just doesn't help much but that residual damage from Sand is what makes the team work. But I could honestly work around that if Tyranitar didn't have Stealth Rock. Being able to run Boah or even just 4 Attacks would make a world of difference for Tyranitar on this team. It's getting to the point that having SR is becoming less & less useful compared to getting some real use out of Tyranitar. Especially with EVERYONE using Tentacruel, Starmie, or Forretress. (Like seriously. At LEAST every other match I run into one.) In retrospect, Cobalion & Terrakion handle just about anything SR would do big damage to with Sandstorm breaking any random sashes. Sturdy becomes a thing but there's not many Sturdy Pokemon that matter and I can't OHKO Skarmory with anything anyway, so why bother? I'll definitely give replacing SR a shot if it really helps Tyranitar as much as I think it will.


    I still haven't found a more potent Fightning/Physical Check than Mew. Sableye wasn't cutting it because of Guts Conkeldurr, Dragonite just got set-up on or Phazed out, I even tried Acid Armor Jellicent and...well that was just hilarious walling & burning the entirety of two Hyper Offense teams with just Acid Armor & Scald; a bit impractical, but hilarious. If either of those people read this, I'm sorry about that. I know it's terrible & NEVER seen so sorry for that bit of indirect trolling.


    But anyway, thanks for all the help so far, everyone! All suggestions are welcome, especially about Tyranitar. Again, if you have an idea, I'll give it an honest shot and tell ya what I thought about it.

    I'll amend the OP with the changes after I figure out what to do about Tyranitar.
  8. Pocket

    Pocket Nyanko Sensei >:3
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    I think SR is significant for this team - especially since you have Virizion and changed Terrakion to Scarf. Virizion appreciates SR's ability to maim Dragonite, Tornadus, Scizor, and Volcarona, as well as breaking Skarmory's Sturdy. Secondly, with Terrakion now scarfed, this team would rely more than ever to Taunt any healing attempts and wear down teams with residual damage. Plus making the opponent spend a turn to Rapid Spin is actually a good thing - it prevents Starmie from hitting Virizion with a powerful special move, and it also prevents Forretress and Tentacruel from setting up Spikes of their own.
  9. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    Okay, I updated the OP. In the end, I just ended up running Shed Shell on Tyranitar because I lost a lot of matches purely because Tyranitar can't safely get Rocks up with Dugtrio around. It's a small change but it made a world of difference for Tyranitar.
  10. emirinho

    emirinho

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    Great team man, i love it.
    I won't talk much, there is only one thing i would suggest.
    You should definitely keep Whirlwind. There is no need for Taunt on your Mandibuzz.
    I would also suggest putting Substitute instead of roar on cobalion because when you are in front of a pokemon that can't touch your cobalion you can freely set up a sub. So then your opponent would be in a bad position because not many pokemon can take 2 CC (because cobalion is naturally pretty fast) along with hp ice. The phazing that your cobalion would lose would be done by mandibuzz. Mandibuzz is way more effective at phazing because it has a recovery move.


    EDIT: The sub on the cobalion would help you against wow rotoms and against CB terrakions that plan to switch into cobalion.

    Conclusion: -Whirlwind on mandibuzz, no need for taunt
    -Substitute on cobalion over Roar.

    I hope i helped.
    I also luvdisced this great team...
  11. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    Well Taunt keeps Mandibuzz from being set up on by Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress, and all sorts of nasty things. I used Whirlwind originally for found Taunt vastly superior for that reason.

    Sub on Cobalion actually seems like a really great idea but I do use Roar quite a bit for SubDDancers like Gyarados who otherwise give me hell. I'd like to use it but there's just too much risk in giving up Roar.


    I'm currently mulling over what to do about Virizion. I'm not really finding Calm Mind helpful at all lately. I seem to either never get a chance to CM or when I do, he's forced out anyway by Scizor or Celebi or something. I really need something special to work with. Something that solves my problems. Don't have to be mainstream at all but it has to work.

    So today I'm going into one of my "creative sessions" to figure out an ideal set for Virizion. The last set to come out of one of those sessions was Defensive Cobalion, so I've got high hopes that there's something about Virizion I'm just not seeing.
    If ya wanna see some creative *coughcrappycough* Virizion sets. Feel free to watch some of my battles today.

    If nothing comes out of it, I'll just toss out the Musketeer theme and just keep my Dark Horse (Cobalion) and crack this team wide open for suggestion.
  12. emirinho

    emirinho

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    Virizion is quite strong with CM however, you have to use it in the middle of the game. I have swept teams with virizion easily. i just keep it healthy until i am sure nothing can touch it. With +2 Celebi can't do anything hp 2ohko's while celebi can't do anything.
    However, if you think it really sucks than you should use a SD Leaf blade CC HP ice. Which is also pretty successful.

    After a SD only alakazam can stop Virizion along with other scarf pokemon. That's why i think that you should keep virizion and the cool "Mmusketeer" theme.

    I think that Mandibuzz can handle set up pokemon pretty efficiently as well, sometimes even better than Cobalion.
    Trust me a sub on cobalio would mean a lot to you. 80% of the time it would mean a loss of a pokemon for your opponent.
    Please try the sub on Cobalion and Whirlwind on mandibuzz as well as the SD Virizion set.

    I hope this helps.
  13. Ewil

    Ewil

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    A-W-E-S-O-M-E !

    This team makas me want to re-playing OU another time.
    It has a lot of underrated mons & sets. I think that your psy-dark-fight core is really effective in OU. The three musketeers have a lot of uses and sinergy.

    With this team is really fun to laddering and use a pokemon like Mandibuzz that laught at standard attack like Rotom-W's Volt Switch and other stuff and she can even tank some physical hit. Remember a fight where i stall wobbuffet (last opponent's mon) with her knocking off his lefty and watch him die with covered by sand asd

    Really solid and i love the classic CMVirizion, in mid game i've often destroy his counters, so he can freely setup CMs and proceed to sweep.
  14. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    It's not quite ready for the OP, but as a bit of a status update, this is what the team looks like now. I got rid of the Sand-based core entirely, Mandibuzz included. I needed a SR slot as well as a Special Wall for Latios AND a Special-Attacker. Mandi's a great stall-breaker & Special Wall but I needed a steady stream for damage without Sandstorm, and Brave Bird & Knock Off just weren't cutting it. The same goes for Mew. at the end of the day, they were both Gliscor's toys and with no hard Gliscor check, I found it hard to keep the thing at bay since Cobalion & Virizion can only do so much and if Gliscor is paired up with Tentacruel, I literally couldn't do anything so my core was pretty flawed from the beginning. In my threat list, I had almost everything at least checked, but only 1-on-1. It was the combination of threats like Gliscor & Tentacruel that made it easy to wear through my team. So with that in mind I complete revamped the team into this, which has been working pretty well so far:

    [​IMG]
    Athos (Cobalion) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Close Combat
    - Roar
    - Taunt

    He's the only member of the team that hasn't been changed at all. It works just as well as it always has. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
    [​IMG]
    Porthos (Terrakion) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Earthquake

    Does all the same things he did before with the addition of Earthquake for Jirachi & Toxicroak.

    [​IMG]
    Aramis (Virizion) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 208 HP / 76 Def / 88 SAtk / 136 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Focus Blast
    - Taunt
    - Reflect
    - Giga Drain

    This is the Virizion set I came up with like I said I would in my last post after a LOT of trial and error. You might have seen it in the "Counter That OU Pokemon" thread when I used it to counter Rotom-W. I love this guy. He just makes a fool of Volt-Turn as Scizor can only 4HKO after Reflect is up. Because of that, Virizion tends to be my lead as he prevents set-up with Taunt, turns the tables(/badpun) on Volt-Turn, sets up a helpful Screen, and is a general menace to Rain & Sand teams.
    [​IMG]
    Zapdos @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Heat Wave
    - Hidden Power [Flying]
    - Roost

    Zapdos is a pretty rare sight in OU these days even with Thundurus gone, but Zapdos certainly hasn't lost it's touch. It helps patch my Fighting-type weakness while keeping a heavy offensive presence throughout the battle. It might seem odd that I'm running HP Flying instead of the traditional HP Ice, but I already have 3 Dragon Checks in Cobalion, Terrakion, & Bronzong so HP Ice is just wasteful. HP Flying lets Zapdos not only maim Celebi (80%) & Breloom (OHKO) in Rain as well as any Fighting-types foolish enough to stay in on Big Bird, but it also give Zapdos a STAB move to hit Gastrodon, Quagsire, Gliscor, Donphan, and even Landorus with if I predict correctly. Heat Wave on the other hand should be pretty self-explanatory.
    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Recover
    - Calm Mind
    - Refresh

    This set is ripped straight from the OU CCAT RMT suggestions. Not even gonna try to hide it. Latias has the absolute best overall synergy with the Musketeers, covering nearly all thier weaknesses with the exception of Virizion's Flying & Ice weaknesses so all it needed was a good set and boy do I like this one. This Pokemon breaks stall in half all because of Refresh. Refresh completely nullifies any attempt to Toxic or Burn Latias which also helps it take Scalds & Lava Plumes for the team. CM lets it go on the offense instead of sitting back & taking hits like Mandibuzz & Mew were. It just works great for this team.
    [​IMG] Although it may be replaced by: [​IMG]@ Shed Shell
    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Trait: Heatproof
    EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earthquake

    Heatproof Brozong. Why? Because it's extremely effective in this metagame. Fire-type attacks have become just as common if not a little more common than Ground-type moves because of Pokemon like Ferrothorn & Scizor. Bronzong also has the second best overall synergy with the Musketeer trio as it covers so many of their weaknesses with Terrakion & Virizion covering Bronzong's Fire & Ground weaknesses, but in this case only Ground matters. Cobalion is so bulky that he doesn't mind taking an Earthquake or two so as far as I'm concerned, Terrakion is the only Musketeer that truly worries about Ground-type moves. However Cobalion & Virizion hate Fire-type attacks with Zapdos not being too fond of them either so Heatproof Bronzong seemed like the right choice in the long-run. Everyone assumes Bronzong has Levitate anyway so unless Spikes are out or Bronzong gets hit by a Fire-type move, I get the best of both worlds in a sense.

    With that long explanation of Heatproof out of the way, the rest of the set is very standard. I'm much happier having a Pokemon that covers the Musketeers having Stealth Rock than I was with Tyranitar in the past. It can't do much of anything to Skarmory & Ferrothorn but Latios, Heatran, Infernape, & Jirachi can't do much to Bronzong, so that's more than a fair trade-off if you ask me. It also trolls Dugtrio & Magnezone to no end if they assume it's Levitate Bronzong. Trololol~





    There's a few things you should notice right off the bat. The first being I'm HORRIDLY weak to CM Reuniclus. Weak to the point that I might as well give up if I see one. I can only beat it if it switches in on Cobalion or Virizion so I can Taunt it, Zapdos since Zapdos just slams it with Thunderbolt if it doesn't have a CM under it's belt, or Latias is she's gotten a few CMs in. Otherwise, I NEED a Crit to beat it.

    It's that reason that I'm considering switching to Jirachi just so I can do something to the little bastard. Shed Shell is just because Dugtrio & Magnezone are everywhere and for good reason; they work. If Jirachi gets trapped & they have Reuniclus, I'm back to square one and that's the absolute last thing I want. So giving up my item to prevent that scenario is well worth the risk.

    I'm also a bit weak to Gengar. Zapdos & Terrakion can smash him but that's about it. Sub just ruins Zapdos though because of Life Orb recoil bringing it down to Shadow Ball KO range.

    But aside from those glaring issues, this team is much more solid than the previous build. Even after the RMT Workshop took a look at the team, it was still flawed in practice. But I feel that this version is built a lot safer especially for a team with 3 Pokemon of the same type.

    I'm still open to all suggestions. The next update will probably be on the OP, but I'll still be active and trying out to any and all suggestions.
  15. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

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    You may want to consider running something like Air Balloon Heatran over Bronzong. After looking at a synergy calculator I have found the best usable companions for each Musketeer. Terrakion is hands down Latias which has a 100% coverage. However for Virizion, Heatran has a 142% coverage. And as for Cobalion Latias is again the best coverage with a great 133% coverage.

    Not only is Heatproof Bronzong situational, it is also a lot weaker offensive presence. If you run Air Balloon Heatran, you maintain Stealth Rocks, have a Fire IMMUNITY, great offensive presence and defensive, have a solid DDNite check, and best of all a great companion for Virizion. Also, Bronzong only defends each of the three 42%, 100% and -33% respectively.

    I also think that you ought to invert the roles of Latias and Virizion. Since Latias is crucial for 2 of your three Musketeers, I reckon a set of something like Reflect/Roost/Draco Meteor/Roar would be great and giving Virizion back his CM set. This gives you an OK check to Reuniclus early game so hopefull yyou can Roar and hope to have it 5-1 or something like that. You could also try somethign like Night Slash on Terrakion if he gets it.

    GL
  16. col49

    col49 you know I used to try
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    well, i don't think i can yet properly rate this, and even with extra review i doubt i'll find much to say, but as a nitpick-y thing, i don't think the evs on yer virizion are optimal. a spread of 220 hp / 76 def / 180 spa / 32 spe w/timid grants you the same defense, special attack, and speed, but 3 more hp. very minute really, but they're free points, right? if i find nothing else, then may i just say that i thoroughly enjoy the originality of this team, its quite an enjoyable break from the mundane, cookie-cutter nature of the current metagame, good on ya.
  17. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    Here's a quick replay of the team's core just clicking together. My opponent's team isn't very balanced but it at least allows you to see how & why the sets work. I added Heatran and it's proving to be a very smart move. Thanks!
    http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Katakiri-Testa-vs-MoMan1--2012-03-09

    I'll try out switching the roles of Virizion & Latias later tonight.

    Oh wow! Thanks! I always EV my Pokemon according to damage calcs and speed tiers but I never think to optimize them quite like that.
  18. Poke Trainer

    Poke Trainer

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    I believe i saw you on the Ladder with this team, unfortunately i lost :(
  19. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    Yeah I remember you. That was a fun game.


    Here's an interesting match, although it conflicts with the point I'm about it bring up:
    http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Katakiri-Testa-vs-toshidarkhorse--2012-03-09-private78292117


    After laddering some more tonight, the moment I ran into a Latios was the moment I regretted switching to Heatran. If it Tricks away it's Specs, it pretty much has free reign over my entire team if it has Surf, which most tend to. Cobalion & Virizion can't touch him, Zapdos is OHKOed by an un-boosted (No Specs needed) Draco Meteor, Latias just tries hiding in the same hole that Heatran hides in at the beginning of each Generation when Garchomp is still legal, the only one that can hit him is Terrakion and if Latios is not taking residual damage, Terrakion's X-Scissor is all in vain unless he's at low HP from the start.

    Having Heatran around is nice, and yeah it cover's Virizion's weaknesses but you have to take into account that Poison & Flying are very rare offensive move typings with Tornadus, Dragonite, Venusaur, & Tentacruel being the most notable users of the moves. They're all taken care of by Virizion's other teammates, although Venusaur can potentially be a problem, Terrakion out-speeds it in Sun. So on paper, Heatran is the best choice, but in practice if falls flat on it's face only because it's not what I need for this team.

    I'm testing some Pokemon with this guy being the top-testing candidate so far:
    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 136 Atk / 120 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Pursuit
    - Fire Punch
    - Avalanche
    If this guy does end up being the Pokemon I choose, Zapdos's team slot might...see some changes. [​IMG]
    Nothing's set in stone yet though. [​IMG]
    Seriously. Nothing. [​IMG]

    All because of Reuniclus.
  20. Katakiri

    Katakiri ディアンシー! ディアンシー...ディアンシー!
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    [​IMG]

    I have every intention of replacing Magnezone with Specs Keldeo since Keldeo fully-resists Scizor, KOs everything Magnezone does, and even KOs Ferrothorn & Jirachi in Rain. Nothing lost at all.

    I'll probably update the RMT with the current version of the team later.

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