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Toxicroak (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Omicron, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Status: Done.

    QC Approved [3/3]

    1. Iconic
    2. Fireburn
    3. PK Gaming

    GP Approved [2/2]

    1. Flora (Credit to guddagudda, afti, and detroitlolcat)
    2. Chou Toshio

    [​IMG]
    http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/toxicroak

    [Overview]

    <p>Toxicroak is a very diverse Pokemon. It has a plethora of boosting moves allowing it to choose from powerful Swords Dance, Bulk Up, SubPunch, or Nasty Plot sets. It has a wide variety of offensive options as well, including strong priority in Sucker Punch and the new-and-improved Drain Punch, a far more reliable STAB option than Cross Chop. Toxicroak also has a great ability in Dry Skin, which grants it 12.5% recovery each turn during rain. Abusing its resistances to Grass-, Water-, Fighting-, Bug-, and Dark-type moves, it is relatively easy for Toxicroak to set up. By virtue of its Poison-typing and ability, Toxicroak can wall nearly every single bulky Water-type in the game. A Bulk Up set can make Toxicroak very tough to take down, given investment in HP; it also dramatically increases Toxicroak's HP recovery through Drain Punch, particularly when combined with Dry Skin and Leftovers. Toxicroak's Ground-, and rather uncommon Psychic- and Flying-type weaknesses are easy to cover with any number of potential teammates. Toxicroak has improved drastically this generation because of the introduction of Drizzle Politoed and a vastly improved Drain Punch.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Swords Dance
    Move 1: Swords Dance
    Move 2: Sucker Punch
    Move 3: Drain Punch / Cross Chop
    Move 4: Substitute / Ice Punch
    Item: Leftovers / Life Orb
    Ability: Dry Skin
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p> A respectable base 106 Attack stat coupled with Swords Dance and Sucker Punch makes Toxicroak a very potent sweeper. After a Swords Dance Toxicroak hits a massive 684 Attack that puts a dent in almost anything with Sucker Punch or STAB Drain Punch. Substitute is the main option for the fourth slot on this set, as it allows Toxicroak to block status, and set up Swords Dance. Ice Punch is an option to defeat Gliscor but is illegal with Drain Punch. It is fairly easy to set up a Swords Dance with Toxicroak by coming in on either a predicted Water attack or a weaker attack it resists; the health that you lose can be greatly softened by Dry Skin healing. This set allows Toxicroak to be one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the game once behind a Substitute. After two Swords Dances neither dedicated physical walls nor standard Toxicroak checks can stop it. </p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs on this set are pretty straightforward with 252 invested in Attack to maximize Toxicroak's power and 252 in Speed to help outspeed slower Pokemon and set up faster Substitutes. The Adamant nature gives Toxicroak max Attack. It is important to note that Ice Punch is illegal with the new Drain Punch and thus Cross Chop must be used instead of Drain Punch when running Ice Punch. With Leftovers + Dry Skin Toxicroak heals a massive 18.5% of its health per turn in rain. That's more than what Poison Heal Gliscor and Breloom heal per turn. With this combination you only lose 6.5% of your health after using Substitute. Life Orb is another option as it greatly augments Toxicroak's damage output and Dry Skin essentially cancels out recoil. </p>

    [SET]
    name: Nasty Plot
    move 1: Nasty Plot
    move 2: Vacuum Wave
    move 3: Dark Pulse
    move 4: Sludge Wave / Hidden Power Ice
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Modest
    ability: Dry Skin
    evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Toxicroak can also utilize Nasty Plot to hit hard despite its lower Special Attack. Toxicroak retains priority in the arguably better form of STAB Vacuum Wave. Dark Pulse helps hit the Psychic- and Ghost-types that resist its Fighting STAB, with Sludge Wave or Hidden Power Ice mixing in to complement the phenomenal coverage Toxicroak attains with the Dark- and Fighting-type attack combination. Maximum Special Attack and Speed EVs with a Modest nature provides the most attacking power. This set surprises Swords Dance Toxicroak's counters with strong special attacks. The choice between Sludge Wave and Hidden Power Ice depends on what your team needs: STAB Sludge Wave destroys Grass-types, while Hidden Power Ice wrecks the common Landorus and Gliscor switch-ins. Sludge Wave is also your most powerful attack against neutral targets.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Life Orb is the preferred item as Toxicroak's Special Attack isn't stellar and recoil damage is canceled out in the rain due to Dry Skin. However, Leftovers heals a remarkable amount of health in conjunction with Dry Skin. Substitute is an option over the third coverage move to block status and enable an easier time setting up, but Nasty Plot Toxicroak's indifference to the Attack drop from burn makes it much less vulnerable to status. Even paralysis isn't particularly worrisome thanks to Toxicroak’s access to STAB priority in the form of Vacuum Wave. Unfortunately, like most special attackers, Blissey and Chansey completely wall it bar a +6 Vacuum Wave or Sludge Wave. Focus Blast can be used over Hidden Power Ice or Sludge Wave for a stronger STAB move but the coverage is usually needed to take out specific targets. An alternative EV spread of 244 HP / 252 SpA / 12 Spe is viable but Nasty Plot Toxicroak likes outspeeding as many enemies as possible rather than trading hits.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulk Up
    move 1: Bulk Up
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Drain Punch
    move 4: Payback / Sucker Punch
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    ability: Dry Skin
    evs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The idea is to come in on something that you can set up on, ideally a Water- or Bug-type move, and use Substitute on the switch. Substitute provides protection from status but leaves you vulnerable to phazing. However, the common OU phazers Skarmory and Hippowdon are more likely to attack with their STAB Ground and Flying-type moves, respectively. Nevertheless, once Toxicroak is set up, it can essentially be more destructive than the Swords Dance set. After a few Bulk Ups the Defense boosts allows it to take Earthquakes from the likes of Hippowdon, survive, and recover lost health back with Drain Punch, leaving Hippowdon scrambling in futility with Slack Off and Earthquake, as long as it lacks Roar. 244 EVs in HP keeps Toxicroak as bulky as possible without taking away attack power. Speed investment isn't worth much, considering Toxicroak's low base Speed and the set's need for heavy investment in bulk.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Substitute gives Toxicroak many more opportunities to set up and with a few Bulk Ups under its belt, Toxicroak achieves bulk on par with physical walls, holding up to many powerful attacks bar super effective STAB Earthquakes. Toxicroak becomes so physically bulky after one Bulk Up that even Choice Band Scizor will not be able to 2HKO with Bullet Punch - plus Toxicroak naturally resists Scizor’s other common moves Bug Bite, U-turn, and Superpower. Low Kick is an option over Drain Punch to hit heavy foes, but this set usually needs the healing from Drain Punch to stay around as long as possible. Toxicroak can also utilize Taunt to prevent phazers like Skarmory from ruining its sweep, but Toxicroak is rather frail and will be KO’ed by Skarmory's Brave Bird or Hippowdon's Earthquake unless it can get its boosts.</p>

    [Set]
    name: SubPunch
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Focus Punch
    move 3: Sucker Punch / Payback
    move 4: Ice Punch
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    ability: Dry Skin
    nature: Adamant
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The idea of this set is to come in on something you can force out or wall, and either use Substitute or Focus Punch on the switch with the latter doing serious damage even when resisted. Sucker Punch is used to beat faster threats that are immune to Focus Punch such as Gengar, but Payback can be used if Sucker Punch feels too unreliable. Ice Punch destroys Gliscor on the switch and also hits other Flying-types, which are often KO'd by a follow up Sucker Punch. The EVs provide reasonable bulk; this set doesn't need Speed. Toxicroak can scare faster threats like Latios and Latias with Sucker Punch to force a switch - however, if they use Substitute, Toxicroak will always lose. Leftovers could be used over Life Orb but it isn't recommended as Toxicroak needs the extra power it provides in the absence of Swords Dance or Bulk Up.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>An alternative EV spread of 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed allows Toxicroak to outspeed most Gliscor and other threats hovering around the Base 80 range, but this set is focused on using Substitute to avoid direct hits so Speed investment isn't as necessary as smart switching. Unlike the other sets which have a means of boosting, this set will not be able to sweep without properly removing enemy checks and physical walls. This set is meant to abuse Focus Punch to break walls in the early game while also having some potential to clean up late game thanks to Sucker Punch. With the proper support, SubPunch Toxicroak can pose a serious threat. Because of its ability it is always recommended to have Politoed as a teammate to provide permanent rain and counteract Ninetales' Drought. With regards to other moves, Toxicroak doesn't really have that many alternative options other than potentially using Stone Edge over Ice Punch which brings no notable benefits other than helping against Gyarados, but Toxicroak already walls Gyarados should it lack Earthquake or Bounce.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Toxicroak is best paired with Politoed to abuse his Dry Skin ability. Skarmory, Zapdos, and Scizor are all great teammates for Toxicroak since they cover its weaknesses to Psychic, Flying, and Ground. In addition, Zapdos and Scizor directly benefit from permanent rain, with the former gaining a perfectly accurate Thunder and the latter gaining some welcome protection from Fire attacks. Skarmory deserves special mention for its abilities to set up entry hazards and phaze, both of which help Toxicroak get KO’s more easily. Substitute is essential for every physical set as it provides Toxicroak with many more opportunities to set up and attack, but the loss of Ice Punch is notable and leaves you unable to defeat Gliscor barring a critical hit. A Choice Band set with Drain Punch or Cross Chop / Sucker Punch / Stone Edge / Ice Punch could work although it is mostly outclassed by the Swords Dance set.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Most physical walls can beat physical Toxicroak due to his frailty, but must watch out for Nasty Plot variants. Skarmory resists Dark-type moves, is neutral to Fighting-type moves, immune to Poison-type moves, and can KO with STAB Brave Bird or phaze him out with Whirlwind. Hippowdon also works well as it phazes Toxicroak out with Roar or KOes with Earthquake, but a +2 Life Orb Drain Punch can 2HKO, and a Nasty Plot boosted Hidden Power Ice will usually OHKO. Gliscor can wall all of Toxicroak’s sets bar the Nasty Plot set with Hidden Power Ice and the physical sets with Ice Punch, and in return KOes with Earthquake or Acrobatics. Gliscor is generally the best counter due to its enormous defense and resistance to Fighting-type moves. Faster Flying-types will usually beat Toxicroak - Tornadus is particularly worrisome with its 100% accurate Hurricane in rain. Possessing decidedly mediocre defensive stats, Toxicroak will usually fall to even strong neutral hits like Thundurus’ Life Orb Thunderbolt. Ghost-types with Substitute can work around a Toxicroak utilizing Sucker Punch to outstall and eventually KO it. SubDisable Gengar works especially well as once Sucker Punch or Dark Pulse is Disabled, Toxicroak is completely walled by Gengar bar Ice Punch or Hidden Power Ice.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Toxicroak’s Dream World ability is Poison Touch, which gives a 20% chance of causing poison to all of his contact moves. This ability is nearly as useless as Anticipation and should not be used over Dry Skin under any circumstances. Dry Skin is the primary reason that Toxicroak is viable in OU; without it, Toxicroak is just an average Pokemon.</p>
  2. religiousjedi

    religiousjedi #ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Well, it is your analysis. If you feel a Nasty Plot set works, go ahead and post it. After all, QC will judge in the end if it should go up or not.
  3. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    ^wat

    Anyway, Payback should go on the SD and Bulk Up sets. Sure, faster Psychics beat you without a Substitute, but with Sucker Punch, any ghost or reasonably bulky fighting resist can take Drain Punches and set up for free.

    It's Poison Hand.
  4. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Added a NP set to the OP, updated with several changes, will update again soon.
  5. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
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    For the Nasty Plot set, use Slime Wave over Sludge Bomb. (Slime Wave has 5 more BP in exchange for a 10% chance to poison, but normal poison sucks anyways)
  6. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    Kingdra should be removed from Team Options, seeing as Aldaron's Proposal was passed (No Drizzle + Swift Swim on the same team).
  7. kc4444

    kc4444

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    What about Substitute on your Nasty Plot set.
  8. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Finished adding comments to NP set. Thoughts?
  9. Omicron

    Omicron
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    This needs a QC approval for the NP set as it wasn't in the OP.
  10. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Nasty plot should be the 2nd set in the analysis as I find it to be a lot more effective than the BU & Subpunch sets. Low Kick needs a slash alongside Drain Punch, because it can hit heavier targets a lot harder than DP, and most of the metagame is pretty heavy. (Hippowdon, Birijion* etc)
    Ice Punch definitely needs a slash over Stone Edge.
    (the order should be: Ice Punch / Taunt / Substitute imo)

    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED (3/3)
  11. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Changes implemented except I mentioned Ice Punch in the AC for the SD set since Substitute is usually better for setting up Swords Dances.

    And Thanks!
  12. PK Gaming

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    Hold on here. Ice Punch should definitely the primary slash because you need to bypass Gliscor.
  13. Omicron

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    Ok, as you wish! Changes made.
  14. Afti

    Afti

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    I've found that Stone Edge can actually work on the Bulk Up set. I wouldn't make it the primary choice, but it could probably be slashed in with Taunt and Substitute. Its most notable value is letting Toxicroak DO something to Jellicent, which normally walls it all day long; they won't attack and you can't due to Sucker Punch's limitations.

    ThunderPunch would fulfill that role, too, now that I think about it... Which do you think would be better, coverage-wise?
  15. GtM

    GtM

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    Is Drain Punch worth a slash on the Sub Puncher set, so that you can overcome the HP lost by Substitute more effectively? Or would this be overkill?
  16. Omicron

    Omicron
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    I feel like Payback or Sucker Punch does pretty decent damage if you manage to get Jellicent to attack. And I would think that Toxicroak walls Jellicent unless it has will-o-wisp. It's probably just a better idea to switch rather than sacrifice a moveslot. Fighting-Dark has phenomenal coverage already, but I could mention it in the AC.


    Drain Punch is relatively weak on the SubPunch set because there is no attack boosting going on, therefore the other coverage moves are more important than a healing move that lacks in base power, i.e. Ice Punch hits Gliscor, a common threat.
  17. Bloo

    Bloo
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    There are so many slashes on the Swords Dance set; let's remove some. I talked this over with Aerrow and fellow QC member Iconic, and we all agree that Taunt and Stone Edge should be de-slashed and mentioned in AC Toxicroak is honestly too frail to be Taunting. It's good for phazers, but let's look at the common phazers in OU:

    1. Skarmory: can simply use a super effective Brave Bird to KO Toxicroak, instead of using Whirlwind to force it out.
    2. Hippowdon: has great physical bulk and can use EQ to KO Toxicroak in one shot.
    3. Gyarados: has Intimidate, great physical bulk, and a resistance to Fighting, and Taunt doesn't work on Dragon Tail, so Gyarados won't have much of a problem forcing you out.
    See what I mean? I guess Taunt is useful for preventing Burungeru and other such 'mons from inflicting you with a status move, but I'd just mention this in AC honestly. As for Stone Edge, Ice Punch is significantly better than Stone Edge: it has 100% accuracy, KOes Gliscor, and still retains the super effective hit on most Flying-types (bar Gyarados). As such, a simple mention of SE in AC should suffice imo.

    Other changes I'd make are changing the name "Bulky Toxicroak" to "Bulk Up" and mentioning a Choice Band set in Other Options: CB Sucker Punch is pretty cool coming off a base 106 Attack stat. Lastly, you have several spacing errors in your OP. For example:

    Should be listed as Slime Wave / Hidden Power Ice. This goes for all of the other slashes you have throughout this analysis.
  18. Omicron

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    Changes implemented, thanks Bloo
  19. GtM

    GtM

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    Talking about the Choice Band set, is it really viable? Choiced Sucker Punch is terrible since it basically forces you to switch after your first hit or you become setup fodder, and it can't nail Ghosts and what not on the switch either. And without Sucker Punch Toxicroak is just plain outclassed by other Choice Banders. Is it even worth mentioning?
  20. Omicron

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    Well that's the point of mentioning it in Other Options >.>
  21. Rising_Dusk

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    You asked me to add this to the queue, but you need an AC section for the SubPunch set describing the teammates, alternate moves, EVs, and nature for the set. Once this is done, I can add it.
  22. jrrrrrrr

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    If you're going to suggest this, you might want to include Air Balloon as an item on that set. Hippowdon OHKOs you with STAB Earthquake before you can 2hko it, meaning you lose without the Balloon. Either that or just take that sentence out completely.
  23. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Added an AC section for SubPunch and removed the offending sentence. Thanks!
  24. sax king

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    I really don't see the point of Low Kick on the SD Suckerpunch set. Drain Punch is much better in pretty much all cases, and really anything too heavy is usually just set up bait anyway. I also like Poison Jab in the last slot. It may have crappy typing, but it works well against anything that resists fighting but is still outsped. I'd just put it as a slash in the last slot. Substitute doesn't seem useful. You die way too quickly. Sand Damage (extremely common) and LO recoil on top of Toxicroak's frailty really adds up, and there really isn't time to sub up. You need Drain Punch to keep you alive, and even then it's not going to be healing you enough. Good job overall though.
  25. Omicron

    Omicron
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    I kinda agree with you about the Low Kick thing, but the Substitute thing, not so much to be honest. Substitute is remarkably useful when you have ways of dealing with the Hippo and Gliscor. Coming in on things you can force out and sub on say, a Latios switch in gives you the opportunity to SD once as it attacks, and then Sucker Punch it for the OHKO. Substitute definitely deserves a slash on the set IMO.

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