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Toxicroak (Analysis)
- Thread starter Rakan
- Start date
Leftovers should be replaced with Black Sludge so others can use Leftovers.
Smogon doesn't enfore Item Clause.
Not when they can Trick again with Black Sludge.
Would Air Balloon be a viable item option of Toxicroak? I was thinking about running the alt sub punch set listed with ice punch and 252 spe/att but with air balloon instead to deal with gliscor. Id be able to come in on an EQ worry free and KO with ice punch. Also, air balloon doesnt break if hit behind a sub, right? Is black sludge really that neccesary since half of the sub health is recovered every turn anyways?
Hello everyone! A new member posting. lol
Anyways I've been working on a new Toxicraok set that looks like this:
Toxicraok@LifeOrb
Adamant
Ev's A252/S252/HP4
Fake Out
Cross Chop/Drain Punch
Sucker Punch
Bullet Punch/Ice Punch
And yes this set can be deadly in mid-game. I've tested it in PO and works in wonders.
Sorry I cant bring damage calcs for fact.(I'm not good in calculating damage)
Please tell me if there are flaws,mistakes or outclassed by any pokemon. Any reply will be useful
Anyways I've been working on a new Toxicraok set that looks like this:
Toxicraok@LifeOrb
Adamant
Ev's A252/S252/HP4
Fake Out
Cross Chop/Drain Punch
Sucker Punch
Bullet Punch/Ice Punch
And yes this set can be deadly in mid-game. I've tested it in PO and works in wonders.
Sorry I cant bring damage calcs for fact.(I'm not good in calculating damage)
Please tell me if there are flaws,mistakes or outclassed by any pokemon. Any reply will be useful
No ability is displayed, and the existing sets outclass it. Fake Out has been given a mention in OO iirc. Cross Chop shouldn't be used since Drain Punch exists and has higher PP, accuracy, and a better effect (recovery > crits any day of the week). Bullet Punch is too weak to be used on Toxicroak when its attack is unboosted.
Actually I, along with an increasing number of others it would seem, have been using SD Toxicroak with Cross Chop and Ice Punch. Ice Punch is probably the best coverage move that Toxicroak can have at the moment; it makes a perfect lure for the likes of Gliscor and Dragonite, while still hitting Celebi. The main problem with Ice Punch is that it is illegal with Drain Punch, leaving you searching for an alternative STAB.
I have no idea why Low Kick is in the analysis, because it sucks against so many things, including Jirachi, Blissey/Chansey, and Rotom-W, which are all highly problematic opponents for a rain team in my experience. The best option, other than the clearly superior Drain Punch, is Cross Chop. Its accuracy is irritating but its power is doubtless impressive, and Toxicroak does already get excellent recovery from Dry Skin, and lefties if you decline to use Life Orb. With Life Orb, though, it clean OHKOes so many things at +2 that you would not expect, including the aforementioned Jirachi (except those which invest in Defense).
Additionally, this analysis fails to make the illegality issue clear enough; certainly upon first reading I wanted to use a Bulk Up/Drain Punch/Ice Punch Toxicroak. The best course of action in my view is to make this illegality issue absolutely clear at the first mention of Ice Punch, and to slash Cross Chop onto the SD set instead of Low Kick. Alternatively, I could see two seperate sets: Drain Punch/Sub/Lefties and Cross Chop/Ice Punch/LO. Ice Punch should be mentioned on the bulk up set to state that it is illegal.
I have no idea why Low Kick is in the analysis, because it sucks against so many things, including Jirachi, Blissey/Chansey, and Rotom-W, which are all highly problematic opponents for a rain team in my experience. The best option, other than the clearly superior Drain Punch, is Cross Chop. Its accuracy is irritating but its power is doubtless impressive, and Toxicroak does already get excellent recovery from Dry Skin, and lefties if you decline to use Life Orb. With Life Orb, though, it clean OHKOes so many things at +2 that you would not expect, including the aforementioned Jirachi (except those which invest in Defense).
Additionally, this analysis fails to make the illegality issue clear enough; certainly upon first reading I wanted to use a Bulk Up/Drain Punch/Ice Punch Toxicroak. The best course of action in my view is to make this illegality issue absolutely clear at the first mention of Ice Punch, and to slash Cross Chop onto the SD set instead of Low Kick. Alternatively, I could see two seperate sets: Drain Punch/Sub/Lefties and Cross Chop/Ice Punch/LO. Ice Punch should be mentioned on the bulk up set to state that it is illegal.
Cross Chop definitely deserves a mention over Drain Punch on the Swords Dance Set (as mentioned by the user above me). +2 Cross Chop annihilates Jirachi, which can otherwise Body Slam Croak and stop it's sweep. 80% accuracy isnt terrible, as shown by the many people who use hydro pump over surf. The power increase with Cross Chop is extremely noticeable. I would say that unless for some reason, you are not using Toxicroak on a rain team, Cross Chop is the way to go on the SD set.
Going back to the Black Sludge vs Leftovers argument, even if Rotom-W uses trick and nabs Black Sludge, are we assuming that is all Rotom-W switches in to do? For one thing, that is somewhat of a waste of a turn, where Rotom-W suffers residual damage coming from Toxicroak.
For another, Rotom-W can't really do much to Toxicroak, so I don't see Rotom-W switching into Toxicroak in the first place.
Finally, there is no way that Toxicroak is staying in on any of the other major users of Trick, so there is no danger of them Tricking Black Sludge onto one of your own pokemon.
Thus, at this point Black Sludge is on equal ground with Leftovers. Now lets say you switch Toxicroak into a Trick which may have been designed to put the previous pokemon out of commission. Worst case scenario, its Latios with Choice Specs (this will never happen, you never switch Toxicroak into a psychic type). Now he has the burden of having to Trick it onto something else, all the while suffering residual damage. The next turn he will presumably try to kill Toxicroak. You obviously switch out to a psychic resist, if available. It then either switches out, attacks, or uses Trick again. this means that, since it most likely won't be using a psychic attack, it will be safe to switch Toxicroak back in. And in all the preceding turns, it has suffered damage from Black Sludge. Considering that most people don't like their pokemon losing 1/16 of their hp per turn, trick is very likely. If Latios switches out, its a double switch. If Latios uses Draco Meteor, Toxicroak is dead, though that is why you have an appropriate teammate with Toxicroak, any mixed wall works to deter attack (mixed because of Psyshock).
Anyway, the point is that the worst case scenario is either there is a double switch, or Toxicroak gets its Black Sludge back. And all the while, Latios is hurt by Black Sludge.
For all the reasons I have stated, I believe that Black Sludge should get at least get slashed, if not become the primary item, for Toxicroak.
For another, Rotom-W can't really do much to Toxicroak, so I don't see Rotom-W switching into Toxicroak in the first place.
Finally, there is no way that Toxicroak is staying in on any of the other major users of Trick, so there is no danger of them Tricking Black Sludge onto one of your own pokemon.
Thus, at this point Black Sludge is on equal ground with Leftovers. Now lets say you switch Toxicroak into a Trick which may have been designed to put the previous pokemon out of commission. Worst case scenario, its Latios with Choice Specs (this will never happen, you never switch Toxicroak into a psychic type). Now he has the burden of having to Trick it onto something else, all the while suffering residual damage. The next turn he will presumably try to kill Toxicroak. You obviously switch out to a psychic resist, if available. It then either switches out, attacks, or uses Trick again. this means that, since it most likely won't be using a psychic attack, it will be safe to switch Toxicroak back in. And in all the preceding turns, it has suffered damage from Black Sludge. Considering that most people don't like their pokemon losing 1/16 of their hp per turn, trick is very likely. If Latios switches out, its a double switch. If Latios uses Draco Meteor, Toxicroak is dead, though that is why you have an appropriate teammate with Toxicroak, any mixed wall works to deter attack (mixed because of Psyshock).
Anyway, the point is that the worst case scenario is either there is a double switch, or Toxicroak gets its Black Sludge back. And all the while, Latios is hurt by Black Sludge.
For all the reasons I have stated, I believe that Black Sludge should get at least get slashed, if not become the primary item, for Toxicroak.
I was using a rain team until now and decided to try Gliscor out as he'd do what my Reuniclus+Conkledurr combo does of stopping Excadrill and enemy Conkledurr in one slot and then I ran into a Toxicroak that I smugly switched into. Wasn't so smug after I died to Ice Punch. Then I decided to try it out myself only to learn that Ice Punch and Drain Punch were illegal and raged with the force of 1000 suns.
Then I thought... what if Pokemon Grey gives elemental punches again? The horror! Imagine Conkledurr with Ice Punch. But onto the point I really hope they do so Drain Punch can be legal with Ice Punch. Was really excited about this guy but I don't ride my battles on if "move" is going to not crap out on me this time.
Then I thought... what if Pokemon Grey gives elemental punches again? The horror! Imagine Conkledurr with Ice Punch. But onto the point I really hope they do so Drain Punch can be legal with Ice Punch. Was really excited about this guy but I don't ride my battles on if "move" is going to not crap out on me this time.
Is there an item I can use instead of life orb/substitute on the subpunch set? I already have both life orb and substitute on my team
Lol yeah... I meant to type left overs and typed substitute.
you mention ice punch as an option over substitute, but then you go on to say that drain punch + ice punch is an illegal move combination. instead, you should just combine both sentences and say something along the lines of "ice punch is an option to hit gliscor, but because it is illegal alongside drain punch, substitute is usually the superior option".
fixed some grammar mistakes but the rest looks good!
