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Toxicroak (QC Approved 2/2)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Lamppost, Jan 16, 2011.

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  1. Lamppost

    Lamppost I put the milk in first
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    Took this over from afti, I was approved to do so.

    QC approved: iconic, fireburn

    status: writing the final form for the gp team
    [​IMG]
    http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/toxicroak

    [Overview]
    <p>Toxicroak is a very diverse pokemon. It can choose from a trusty swords dance set, a bulky sweeper, a sub puncher, and even a nasty plot set. Toxicroak also has one of the strongest priority moves, sucker punch. Toxicroak also has a great ability dry skin. With drizzle present this generation toxicroak can heal 12.5% per turn with dry skin. With its decent defenses and dry skin it is pretty easy for toxicroak to set up. With such diversity toxicroak can be a force to be reckoned with this generation. The bulk up set can make toxicroak even more bulky, especially with investments and HP. With the new generation came new moves, toxicroak had the luxury of obtaining drain punch, a more reliable alternative to cross chop. It also helps heal toxicroak even more combined with dry skin and leftovers. Toxicroaks ground, psychic, and flying weaknesses can be easily dealt with by carefulling placing teammates to fight them. Toxicroak has improved drastically this generation, not only because of his new move drain punch, but also because of drizzle.</p>


    [SET]
    Name: Swords Dance
    Move 1: Swords Dance
    Move 2: Sucker Punch
    Move 3: Drain Punch
    Move 4: Substitute/ Taunt/ Stone Edge/
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Dry Skin
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe

    [Set Comments]
    <p> A respectable base 106 attack stat coupled with swords dance and sucker punch makes toxicroak a very potent sweeper. After a swords dance toxicroak hits a massive 684 attack which can dent almost anything with sucker punch or STAB drain punch. After a swords dance toxicroak has the ability to 2hko hippowdon. Subsitute is the main option for the fourth slot on this set. It allows toxicroak to block status, set up swords dance, and become even more unpredictable. Taunt could be used over substitute to stop it from being phazed and statused. Stone edge is also an option to hit flying types for neutral/super effective damage, but substitute or taunt is reccomended over it. It is fairly easy to set up a swords dance with toxicroak. All you have to do is come in on a slower pokemon that you know can't KO you and swords dance or substitute up. The health that you lose will be healed back by dry skin if your in the rain and leftovers. This set allows toxicroak to be one of the most dangerous pokemon behind a substitute. After two swords dances only dedicated physical walls and true counters can stop it.</p>

    <p>The EVs on this set are pretty straightforward, 252 Atk to maximize the power of toxicroak. 252 Spe to help outspeed slower pokemon and to set up faster substitutes. The adamant nature gives toxicroak max attack so his offensive capabilities are at its peak. Leftovers is the prefered item for this set. With leftovers and dry skin toxicroak heals a massive 18.5% of its health per turn. That's as much as poison heal gliscor recovers per turn. With that combination you only lose 6.5% of your health after you use a substitute.</p>

    [SET]

    name: Bulky Toxicroak
    move 1: Bulk Up
    move 2: Taunt/Substitute
    move 3: Drain Punch
    move 4: Sucker Punch
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Adamant
    ability: Dry Skin
    evs: 244 HP/252 Atk/12 Def


    Set Description:
    • Come in on something that you can set up on and set up. Taunt prevents most phazers from working. Substitute protects you from status.
    • Once Toxicroak is set up, it can essentially be more destructive than the swords dance set.
    • After a few bulk ups the defence boost allows him to take an eq from hippowdon and heal his health back with drain punch.
    • 244Hp to keep croak bulky on both sides so hes not completely vulnerable.
    • Speed investment isn't worth much; Toxicroak is plodding at best anyway
    Additional Comments:

    • Taunt or Substitute are both viable options. Taunt stops you from getting phazed or statused, and sub lets you get free bulk ups on the switch.
    • This set makes croak a wall and difficult to take down.
    • Choice Band scizor wont even be able to 2hko after a bulk up.
    Teammates and Counters:

    • Politoed is the obvious teammate to let toxicroak heal 12.5% of its health per turn, not including leftovers.
    • Zapdos to take earthquake, or earth power. And to take flying type attacks.
    • A special wall like evo stone chansey could help here to sponge special attacks since croak will be pretty vulnerable on the special side.
    • A dedicated special attacker thats not weak to sucker punch, and faster than croak can beat this set.
    • An example of this would be torunusu voltlos as he can take croak out with a STAB LO T-bolt.
    [SET]
    name: subpunch
    move 1: focus punch
    move 2: substitute
    move 3: sucker punch
    move 4: ice punch
    item: life orb/leftovers
    nature: adamant
    ability: dry skin
    EVs: 244hp/252atk/12spe










    Set Description:
    • Come in on a resisted attack and sub up.
    • Focus punch on the switch or behind the sub to do serious damage to even resisted mons.
    • sucker punch is to finish pokemon off so you don't have to waste a sub, or if your not behind one.
    • ice punch is to beat gliscor who would otherwise wall you.
    • The ev's provide reasonable bulk as this set doesn't need speed.
    • Can scare pokemon like latios/latias with sucker punch to get a sub up.
    • used as a hit and run tactic.
    • Leftovers could be used over life orb but isn't reccomended as croak needs the extra power since it doesn't have swords dance.
    Teammates & Counters:
    • Politoed to provide rain support for dry skin.
    • pokemon to bait resisted attacks
    • zapdos to take ground/flying hits.
    • a psychic type like rankurusu to take psychic hits and bait scarfed bug moves.
    • swords dance + CB scizor counter this set
    • if its not behind a sub gliscor can beat this set.
    • skarmory can phaze and brave bird for the KO.
    [Team Options]
    • Toxicroak is best paired with politoed to use its ability dry skin to its fullest potential.
    • Skarmory, zapdos, and scizor are all good teammates to toxicroak, as they cover his weaknesses.
    • Scizor and roobushin make good teammates to clean up kills and take out some of toxicroaks psychic counters.
    • kingdra is also good to pair with croak because they both benefit from rain and kingdra can clean up and finish off those that toxicroak couldnt in the rain.
    [Optional Changes]
    • Poison Heal could be used if your not using a rain dance team if you don't want to get beaten by sun teams.
    • You can't really alter a lot of these sets because most of the slots are pretty essential.
    • On the swords dance set you could use ice punch over substitute/taunt to beat gliscor.
    • A nasty plot set could be considered something like : nasty plot, vacuum wave, dark pulse, and hp ice.
    [Counters]
    • Most Physical walls can beat toxicroak.
    • Skarmory can KOwith STAB brave bird and phaze him out.
    • Hippowdon can phaze him out with roar or KO with earthquake.
    • Gliscor can wall all of these sets and KO with earthquake.
    • Toxicroak's destruction is based off his unpredictability. So this means the opponent cant be sure wether you will sucker punch (fails if not hit by an attacking move) or drain punch. So they could easily outpredict you to take your sub out and KO toxicroak.
    [Dream World]
    • Toxicroak got the ability poison skin
    • It is generally outclassed by dry skin other than the times your facing a sun team.
  2. Omicron

    Omicron
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    Ice Punch should be in the OC to hit Gliscor and friends. I also think a NP set is worth a mention at least.

    Set
    Nasty Plot
    -Nasty Plot
    -Vacuum Wave
    -Sludge Bomb
    -Dark Pulse
    Item: Life Orb
    Nature: Modest

    It really only works in rain, but it's quite good as most people expect physical croak. It can come in on Burungeru without fearing WoW and nasty plot and proceed to kill it with dark pulse or at least maim something with priority if something else switches in.
  3. religiousjedi

    religiousjedi #ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Your Pokedex link opens up to Roselia, oddly...
  4. Lamppost

    Lamppost I put the milk in first
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    Ok Ice punch was added, never really thought of it thanks.

    Also i will try that nasty plot set later tonight to see if it's really viable in this metagame.

    *Edit* Link fixed, i just copied the link from afti's thread, thanks
  5. Banryu

    Banryu

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    I dunno if I'd go with Sludge Bomb on the NP set, maybe something like HP Ice might be good. Or, perhaps Sludge Bomb is fine, I know he doesn't get as many Special attacking options...
  6. Lamppost

    Lamppost I put the milk in first
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    Ok i tested the NP set on croak
    i did:
    -nasty plot
    -vacuum wave
    -dark pulse
    -hp ice
    Then i tried sludge bomb instead of hp ice and hp ice is definately better. Overall i wasn't really pleased with this moveset. Croak is too slow and his spa stat is only mediocre. He is outclassed by the likes of lucario and voltlos in nasty plotting. It might be more viable in a uu enviornment but it isn't in the ou metagame right now. I'm not going to add it to my analysis.
  7. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    I'm really, really not liking Ice Punch on Swords Dance Toxicroak. You say it's to hit Gliscor, but the only time you'll ever be even using Toxicroak is on a Rain team, so Gliscor isn't that much of an issue that you have to prepare for it like that. Substitute and Taunt are fine, I guess, personally I think Taunt is AC at best.

    Hippowdon can't take +2 Adamant Drain Punches (2HKOed) either, so you may want to mention that if Toxicroak is behind a Substitute with +2 Attack, and Hippowdon isn't carrying Roar, it loses.

    You may also want to mention that, one on one, Toxicroak beats Tyranitar and Abomasnow, two problematic Pokemon for a Rain team.
  8. Lamppost

    Lamppost I put the milk in first
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    Ok I unslashed ice punch and added it into the optional changes section.
  9. Banryu

    Banryu

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    If you're not writing up a set for Nasty Plot (which I suppose I agree with anyway), you should still mention it in OC.

    Also, what about like a Scarf set or something?
  10. Rhys DeAnno

    Rhys DeAnno Slacking Off

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    I think Life Orb should be a slash, or even the main option, on both sets. With Dry Skin giving 12.5% healing in rain, the recoil damage isn't much of a problem, and even in Sand I find that Toxicroak can really use the extra power. I was using this set on my qualification team:

    name: SubPunch
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Focus Punch
    move 3: Sucker Punch
    move 4: Ice Punch
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Adamant
    ability: Dry Skin
    EVs: 244 HP/252 Atk/12 Spe

    There are a lot of things it can pretty commonly get subs on by scaring out or just being bulky, such as Natty, Verizon, choiced water attacks from Kingdra and Poli, Latios it scares out with Sucker Punch, etc. Once you get a Sub, there is very little that can come into your move combination and not die, or at least be very hurt. It's played with a hit and run style, getting subs at opportune times and ripping holes in the enemy team one by one.
  11. Lamppost

    Lamppost I put the milk in first
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    Added the sub punch set, it works well thanks.
    slashed life orb in for both sets as the second option.
    mentioned a nasty plot set in the OC section
  12. Iconic

    Iconic
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    I'm always a little bit hesitant to approve things that are reliant on Drizzle since there's going to be at least some ban on it. I'd say go ahead with this now, but be ready to reevaluate this in a few weeks. For example, if Aldaron's proposal for banning Drizzle + Swift Swim in tandem is adopted, you're probably going to want to look at the possibility of a Nasty Plot + Dry Skin set to replace sweepers like Ludicolo on Rain teams. Everything looks good though.

    QC Approved 1/2
  13. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    QC APPROVED (2/2)
  14. Lamppost

    Lamppost I put the milk in first
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    Thanks guys, i will be sure to update the analysis once the banning begins.
  15. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
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    Might as well give it a shot.
    Changes in GREEN.
    Delete the RED.
    Mainly just syntax errors that I see.
  16. DFang

    DFang

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    I just started playing PO on smogon's server and Toxicroak has been performing pretty well in this meta.

    -immune to toxic
    -absorbs toxic spikes
    -water immunity, notable boiling water immunity
    -loves the rain
    -multiple priority options

    I've been saving Toxicroak for late game sweeping once the dragons are gone unless there are toxic spikes on the field. This set has worked well:

    Jolly with leftovers (252 Att, 252 Spd)
    -substitue
    -bulk up
    -drain punch
    -sucker punch

    He lasts forever in the rain!

    I plan on trying this mixed priority set to counter fast threats like Excadrill and Cloyster:

    Rash with leftovers (252 Att, 252 Spd)
    -substitute
    -cheer up
    -sucker punch
    -vacuum wave
  17. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    Toxicroak doesn't get Poison Heal.
  18. Lamppost

    Lamppost I put the milk in first
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    He got poison skin as his DW ability which is different.
    Also i will be finishing the formal analysis soon guys, sorry i haven't had much time.
  19. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    Derp.
  20. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    Life Orb should be the primary option for all sets thanks to Toxicroaks ability.

    Also, no Nasty Plot is fucking foolish.

    Nasty Plot / Sludge Bomb / Focus Blast or HP Fighting / Dark Pulse

    Throw Vacuum Wave in there if you want / need to.
  21. Deaga

    Deaga

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    Cross Chop+Ice Punch should be mentioned in Additional Comments for the first set. Ice Punch means you have a fighting chance against Gliscor and Landlos (hit them on the very obvious switch!), which is very important against sandstorm teams.

    Cross Chop goes along with it simply because Drain Punch+Ice Punch is illegal, and Cross Chop is the next better option for Fighting STAB that can be used with Ice Punch... Unles you want to use Brick Break.

    I'm aware that Drain Punch is amazing at totally raping rain teams with nearly infinite healing between it and Dry Skin, that Ice Punch is pretty useless against them and that Croak is really a rain counter first and foremost... But Cross Chop+Ice Punch still fares pretty well against rain and is a good alternative if you don't want to be helpless against Gliscor and Landlos. Hippowdown will still wall you completely, though.

    Also agreeing with RL that Life orb should be the primary item option everywhere.
  22. Tacket

    Tacket

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    Toxicroak does just fine in Singles as well

    As long as you set up your Toxicroak with Rain Dance he can still be able to use most moves. The most expendable move you could replace for Rain Dance would be Stone Edge. Seeing as you need Sucker Punch for countering Psychic types, and your fighting type moves for the STAB. I have a Dry Skin Toxicroak on my HG team, and it works for me very well.
  23. twash

    twash
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    I'd mention that Spiritomb walls the SD set easily and will just restore its HP through Leftovers, unless you're running Taunt/Stone Edge (the former would be most preferable to deal with it). With Pressure, you only get 4 Sucker Punches (which it can stall out by using non-attacking moves), so unless you have Taunt, you will struggle to beat it. This then further prevents Spiritomb hitting a Will-O-Wisp or Toxic on whatever Pokemon is inevitably going to switch-in to replace Toxicroak.
  24. Lamppost

    Lamppost I put the milk in first
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    Finished the first sets paragraphs.
    i will make the grammar changes engineer pikachu, when i finished all the sets.

    Twash- i will put your suggestion in once im done writing this up as well.
    Same goes for everyone.
    I will see if i can finish writing the bulky set later tonight.
  25. Charmander

    Charmander mfw i have a mane and am actually the sun
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    Just posting to say slashes need a space after and before them
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