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Trailmixing (Peaked #1 with win/loss ratio at 27:1)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Moose V, Jun 22, 2013.

  1. Moose V

    Moose V

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    540

    Sup, Smogon. This is my 4th RMT for UU but this team has been the most effective on the ladder. It's a fairly stally team (It is UU after all) that I made for higher level play (i.e. it does pretty well against teams I've seen high on the ladder). It's gotten me the highest Acre, GXE, and Glicko 2 in all of UU which is pretty cool but this will probably be my last UU RMT for a while cuz I wanna branch out into some other tiers.

    Proofz:

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Here's the team at a glance:
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]

    So pretty much the way this team started out was, very late at night, I decided to try out something I thought seemed absolutely flawless at the time, a Rhyperior-Slowbro core. Of course I was too tired to realize that the two didn't really compliment each other's weaknesses very well. The next day, I realized I had created a rather shitty team (I don't remember exactly what I had), but kept the same 2 initial guys and redid the rest of the team. If any of you've seen my other RMTs you may notice I dislike choice scarfves and this team is no exception.

    Rock Block (Rhyperior)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Solid Rock
    EVs: 244 HP / 8 Spd / 252 SpD / 4 Atk

    This EV spread maximizes Rhyperior's potential to take special hits and gives Rhy a very small unusual speed investment that gives it an edge over other Rhyperiors. The HP EVs still hit a leftovers number so the fact that it has 2 less HP than absolute max isn't huge.
    Careful Nature (+SpD -SpA)
    Earthquake / Stealth Rock / Rock Blast /Dragon Tail

    Being the only rock type in UU, it's not surprising that Rhyperior holds such a unique role in the UU metagame. Rhyperior can hit very hard with minimal investment and break subs and froslass easily w/ rock blast, phaze while doing actual damage, set up rocks, and profit from common scarfed fire-type leads. It also has one of the best abilities for a wall, meaning it can take a modest nidoking's earth power and still OHKO it back with earthquake. If you haven't tried this set out yet, do so, he shits on many annoying threats.
    Synergy:
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    I'm just here to dance (Slowbro)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Regenerator
    IVs: 0 Atk
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Spd

    These are pretty much the standard EVs for a defensive Slowbro, nothing special here.
    Bold Nature (+Def -Atk)
    Scald / Psyshock / Slack Off / Toxic
    Slowbro is this team's main physical wall, easily taking on the likes of Darm, Mienshao, SD Cobalion, Azumarill and many others. Most physical threats are neutered by this asshole, but it still struggles with the likes of weavile, heracross's megahorn, victini and banded crobat. This is why I have hitmontop and Rhyperior, however, as between them every physical attacker in the tier is stopped and taken down. The reason I run toxic over t-wave is because, in general, this team struggles more with bulky walls than it does with fast threats. Assuming the opposing team's heal beller is either dead or non-existant to begin with, slapping a toxic on anything means giving it a timer. I run Psyshock over Psychic for Roserades dumb enough to come in on Slowbro
    Synergy:
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    All I do is Spin (Hitmontop)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
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    Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd

    Again, the EVs maximize top's defensive capabilities and give it a little speed investment to gain an advantage over other Hitmontops.
    Impish Nature (+Def -SpA)
    Close Combat / Sucker Punch / Foresight / Rapid Spin
    I know Hitmontop takes a lot of shit sometimes, but he fits perfectly into this team, patching up the team's megahorn weakness, providing a powerful stab fighting attack and shutting down weavile and sharpedo. Besides, what else would you use for spinning? That foresightless, confused bundle of titties, Claydol? That lost ninja turtle that becomes completely useless when I already have Slowbro? That's what I thought. I use foresight because most of the ghost types in UU are pretty shitty and when they lose their spin-blocking capabilities they become pretty much dead weight on an opponent's team. It's also pretty unexpected and can save me against froslass dual ghost teams. In addition, I also already have 2 toxic users so I didn't need another status-inducing move.
    Synergy:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]




    Detour (Snorlax)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Thick Fat
    EVs: 140 HP / 112 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spd

    These EVs take some explaining. The HP EVs hit a lefties number, the defense EVs allow Lax to take a hit or two from Victini or Kingdra, the SpD EVs make Lax a sturdy wall and the Speed Evs mean Snorlax can outspeed the likes of Slowbro and itself.
    Careful Nature (+SpD -SpA
    Body Slam / Rest / Sleep Talk / Whirlwind
    Snorlax has been on every single RMT I've posted, and it's easy to see why; this behemoth has the highest special defensive capability in the tier. Lax also acts as my primary switch into kingdra. Rather than guess if its specs or dragon dance, lax can stop both as a specs draco meteor does around 40% and he can easily phaze out a sub DD kingdra. Unfortunately, Even the best defensive wall in the tier can't take hits forever, as, with rest as its only recovery move, lax does get worn down eventually, but that's why I have zapdos and Rhyperior. With these two, Snorlax doesn't have to take all the special attacks on the team as Yanmega, Togekiss, Shaymin and Raikou among others are stopped without the use of Lax. Basically, this guy has enough bulk to be able to take hits for the rest of the team while at the same time receives enough support to allow it to remain alive and continue to do its job.
    Synergy:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    C-A-G-E (Zapdos)
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    [​IMG]
    Pressure
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 HP / 30 SpD
    EVs: 104 SAtk / 152 HP / 252 Spd

    These EVs kinda make it so Zapdos can take hits but also retain some of its offensive capabilities. Zapdos has a lot of roles on this team and these EVs are sort of a middle ground to help it with everything it needs to do.
    Timid Nature (+Spd -Atk
    Hidden Power [Flying] / Volt Switch / Roost / Toxic

    Zapdos is a pretty cool guy to have in UU for a couple reasons. 1) I hate Togekiss 2) I hate Shaymin 3) Honchkrow scares me 4) I hate Yanmega 5)Crocune scares me 6) I like momentum with volt switch 7) I hate PP stall 8)I hate stall-breaker crobat 9) Articuno sucks 10) It's the fastest thing on my team 11) It's tied with a few things for 2nd highest Special attack in the tier 12) I hate banded flygon. And so on. It's hard to give a full write-up on what Zap does for this team, but I'll just say it puts in work.
    Synergy:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Shark Week (Sharpedo)
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    [​IMG]
    Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SpD

    Pretty Standard EVs for Sharp. I have 4 in special defense to give P2 and PZ an attack download boost rather than a special attack boost.
    Adamant Nature
    Crunch / Earthquake / Waterfall / Protect

    Oh, you have hyper offense? That's cute, I have Sharpedo. This guy is a perfect late-game sweeper as once I can get rid of things like hitmontop and suicune, there's not much that an opposing team can do to stop this guy. I'm a fairly conservative player, so I'm a little reluctant to bring him in, but this guys pretty underated. As long as you accept that Sharpedo can't take a hit ever, he dishes out huge damage and can even deal super effective damage to common walls like Gligar and Slowbro. As proof of its power, after I hit #1, I looked at my team again and this guy only had 152 Atk Evs =3 So I fucked the pooch, but I was still impressed with what I thought was its max attack. Ya, try this thing.
    Synergy:
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    Threats:
    This team is mainly annoyed by very bulky set-up pokes that don't mind status like Crocune and BU Scrafty. Specs Kingdra can also be very annoying because I don't have much to take a hit other than snorlax and, like I said, lax can't take hits indefinitely. Umbreon is definitely a nuisance as I don't have anything to OHKO it and my team does not like going up against heal bell. Finally, this team doesn't really have a surefire answer for Virizion. If it's swords dance, hitmontop can take it on somewhat well, if it's sub calm mind, Snorlax or, to a lesser extent, Zapdos can stop it eventually.

    There's the team, I'll leave a replay to show the team in action. This is the battle against DatSuperNoob that put me at #1.
    Clicks are my orgasm
    Turn 1-Thought he might lead with Golurk and I wanted a toxic on that thing. I knew he was too good to just spam flare blitz so I made a risky prediction on the first turn and it played off.
    Turn 2-Took advantage of the banded lax and set up my rocks cuz I wanted to bring out that Blastiose as it was pretty much the only thing that could comfortably take a hit from Sharp on his team.
    Turns 3 to 5-Kinda got Super in a cycle here where his Lax just lost health, whcih was nice for me.
    Turn 6/7-Tried to get rid of the rocks so I could get back in the cycle I was in before. Unfortunately, Super made a good play here.
    Turn 8-Noticed no visible item on Roserade which led me to believe it was offensive, so I immediately switched into lax to take the leaf storm.
    Turns 9 to 12-Kinda gettin back into the cycle, wearing down the snorlax. Made a double into Zapdos predicting the blastoise to come in to spin.
    Turns 13 to 15 :(
    Turn 16- I actually think Super made a bad play here by leaving in roserade, tho maybe he was just feeling bad about the crit. With his Roserade gone, I knew my Slowbro pretty much shut down the rest of his team
    Turns 17 to 19- I should've gone straight into Top, but ya I wanted to spin here
    Turns 20 to 24- I knew he couldn't switch and risk me fucking up something else on his team so I went to slowbro to bring down blastoise and knock out his only spinner. Kinda lucky he didn't burn me.
    Turn 25- From here on out I play really conservatively as I knew I won as long as I kept pressure on him and didn't let anything die unnecessarily.
    Turn 28 and 32-Predicting the rocks/wanted to toxic the Golurk.
    Turn 42-Made a misplay here. I should've brought in sharp and swept from there, but instead I played a little too safe here but the battle was mine at that point anyway.

    Import this shit:
    Show Hide
    Rhyperior @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 244 HP / 8 Spd / 252 SDef / 4 Atk
    Careful Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rock Blast
    - Dragon Tail

    Slowbro @ Leftovers
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Slack Off
    - Toxic

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 104 SAtk / 152 HP / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 30 HP / 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Volt Switch
    - Roost
    - Toxic

    Snorlax @ Leftovers
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 140 HP / 112 Def / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Whirlwind

    Sharpedo @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Crunch
    - Earthquake
    - Waterfall
    - Protect

    Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Sucker Punch
    - Foresight
    - Rapid Spin


    Rate, comment, suggest or luvdisc :) also if you wanna battle, hit me up
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
    TheCanadianWifier likes this.
  2. Moose V

    Moose V

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    540
    Improved Threat List:

    List of threats by annoyance in descending order:

    [​IMG] This thing, especially if its swords dance, can really hurt me. I need to keep hitmontop around if I see this thing but it kinda shits on sharpedo, rhyperior and snorlax. I basically can not allow this thing to get up a free SD.

    [​IMG] Crocune is a real pain in the neck simply because it's hard to deal with and I really have to rely on zapdos to deal damage to it with volt switch. Unfortunately, it is only volt switch so pretty much my plan when I see suicune is to get up rocks, status it at some point to force it to rest, then keep whirlwinding it out with lax so it never wakes up.

    [​IMG] I really hate this thing. Nothing on my team really enjoys taking a burn and even foresight spinning with Top means it'll probably leave the encounter with a burn. I do have 2 toxic users, however, so this asshole gets worn down eventually.

    [​IMG] This is another poke whose presence means that I need to keep Hitmontop around as long as possible.

    [​IMG] Only if it's specs, this thing can be really annoying as only Snorlax can take a hit from it. Thus, if I can't take this thing out, Snorlax will be slowly worn down, espcially if rocks are up.

    [​IMG] This guy's just annoying to take down and most likely will require hitmontop.

    [​IMG] Another wall that's hard to take down. I pretty much have to rely on Zapdos to finish this thing off, but sleep powder can be a huge pain.

    [​IMG] Good Ol' hail stall. this isn't so much a threat to the team as it is just a threat to my nervous system as games can become very tedious and annoying when Ab sets up a sub and proceeds to leech seed evrything.




    These are more or less the pokes that hurt the team the most. The reason I say this team does better against higher level play, is that most of the threats I mentioned aren't commonly found above 1850 (bar kingdra I'd say) and are instead replaced with things like Sub CM raikou, Chandulure and Honchkrow which the team deals with better. If there are 2 or more of the threats listed above, this team unfortunately pretty much has to rely on the opponent's misplays.
  3. Aecor

    Aecor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    186
    Hi Friend,
    We battled last night and I smashed you via hax :]
    But then you beat me the second time ;(

    But you know how it is, SD Virizion gives you problems. If you see it, you MUST keep Hitmontop alive. If it does, I would suggest HP Flying on Zapdos, since Toxic will wear down most of its counters.

    Also, Umbreon can do plenty of work to your team once Hitmontop is outta the way. What I'm trying to say, is Hitmontop is a HUGE member to your team, so play with it accordingly.
  4. Moose V

    Moose V

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    540
    Ya virizion's annoying. I can take it down eventually but I really hate that thing. I might actually try out hp flying tho I really wish zap got hurricane :(


    Also stop critting me :)
  5. dinodino56

    dinodino56

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    113
    The only thing i can suggest is Hp Flying on Zapdos like KatsnJase said which seems like it can be a big help. Anyway great team and Luvdisc.
  6. Moose V

    Moose V

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    540
    I like both of your suggestions for HP flying and I can actually see it working quite well. It'll do better against roserade, shaymin, tangrowth, all those pesky fighting types including scrafty, virizion, abomasnow, and a bunch of other annoying threats. This actually really cuts down the annoyance of certain threats. I'll update the original post


    Also I kinda wanna play around with zap's EVs. If anyone has any suggestions for a spread, I'd try it out. I also wouldn't mind maybe changing the nature because a main component of the 252 timid was to potentially outspeed and OHKO banded flygon but since this isn't one of his roles anymore I don't really see max speed as all that necessary.
  7. Aecor

    Aecor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    186
    Another small nitpick: I would put 8 or 12 Speed EV's on your Snorlax because most CB/Offensive Lax/Slowbro's like to put 4 Speed Ev's to speed creep. You outspeeding them could be crucial towards an alive or dead Snorlax.
  8. relaunched

    relaunched

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
    299
    Hitmontop is horrible and this team doesn't need Rapid Spin. You have one Stealth Rock weak Pokemon and it has Roost. Your Pokemon handle Spikes better than most (esp. Zapdos isn't affected, Sharpedo doesn't care, Slowbro has Regenerator), and Rhyperior can usually stop Froslass from getting two layers. Hitmontop draws Ghosts to it and you're wrong about the UU Ghosts being crappy. Chandelure can switch in and set up a Substitute or use Trick which cripples all of your Pokemon. Golurk and Mismagius, though rarely seen, also really annoy your team.

    Also as you stated your team is just torn a new one by a well-played Umbreon and to some extent Sableye. Hitmontop can be replaced by something that can do well against these Pokemon. Honestly I think very defensively-minded teams these days need a Taunt user so that Umbreon teams don't just outlast them. You also noted your team's Megahorn weakness, and I agree, it would be nice to have a Megahorn resist in that slot. A quick look at the list of Pokemon with Taunt reveals that a ton of UU Pokemon actually have access to the move. Looking at things that can reasonably take a Megahorn:

    Mismagius, Nidoqueen, Chandelure, Cobalion, Crobat, Froslass, Misdreavus, Qwilfish

    I like Misdreavus more than Mismagius here because it tanks physical hits way better, though Speed is nice to have on the other hand. I wouldn't use Cobalion, Qwilfish or Crobat here because Sableye beats them and while most of these Pokemon aren't excellent against Sableye, you don't want another thing it can switch in to either. That means you either use a Ghost or Nidoqueen. I would use Nidoqueen because it isn't weak to Foul Play mostly. It also checks Heracross better than the Ghosts because it's resistant to Stone Edge. It also helps against Electrics forming the excellent double Ground core that is resilient to either HP Grass or HP Ice (but not both). Also I realized Nidoqueen has Toxic Spikes which seem awesome on this team. Here's what I would use:

    Nidoqueen @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe Bold
    IVs: 0 Atk
    -Earth Power
    -Taunt
    -Toxic Spikes
    -Ice Beam

    Spread and Item make Nidoqueen a great defensive Pokemon. Taunt is the whole point of the set, letting Nidoqueen break down Umbreon. Earth Power is standard with good reason, and Ice Beam is probably best but you could try out other things (Fire Blast Focus Blast Sludge Wave Dragon Tail/Roar and replace Dragon Tail with Megahorn on Rhyperior or Whirlwind with Crunch on Lax etc.) I realized how insane Toxic Spikes are on this team. They work well with the double phazers you have and are the bane of set-up sweepers and most stallbreakers. Also Sharpedo really wants stuff to be worn down a bit to sweep. Poison-types are somewhat common in UU which sucks but some of these are rather easy to wear down (e.g. Offensive Nidoqueen and Roserade) and T Spikes are just so good against teams without them.

    This is the biggest change but if you make it you can also change Zapdos to a SubRoost variant, replacing Toxic and Volt Switch with Substitute and Thunderbolt. SubRoost Zapdos is always annoying to face and it's no different here. Zapdos hates status and your team doesn't have a way to alleviate it also, and Substitute only helps with that.

    Another thing you can try is Crunch over Whirlwind on Snorlax. I was going to suggest this change before because you want more hazards if you're using PhazeLax but now that you have Toxic Spikes in Nidoqueen your set is probably okay. Still not a terrible thing to try though.

    I hope you try out these changes, I can't see how they would make the team anything but better. This Nidoqueen is SO sick on your team.

    Also almost forgot to say I love the idea of using Sharpedo on a defensive team to beat HO. These defensive innovations are what I like most about your teams, TrickScarf Xatu is another one that was really cool.
  9. Aecor

    Aecor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    186
    @ Relaunched: He needs rapid spin for T-spikes Roserade. Also, Hitmontop is his intimidate check. This team is a more conservative offense, not a stall. It's important to note the difference. His team gets wrecked by full-stall, which is why rapid spin support if essential. Hitmontop provides support for this entire team by both rapid spinning hazards AND intimidate checking the vast number of physical threats.

    And as he's stated before, Virizion will do quite a number on his team once Hitmontop is out. It has a powerful STAB in the form of Close Combat. Nidoqueen is 2HK'd by boosted Leaf Blades from Virizon. Taunt doesn't help his team too much because Nidoqueen isn't particularly fast. I've seen Moose play, he switches a LOT, so hazards can and will wear his Pokes down fast. Sure it can potentially beat Umbreon 1v1, but with Hitmontop, it's more certain that Hitmontop will come out on top.

    I'm really sick and tired of these UU bandwagoners that tell others not to use a Poke just because everyone says it's garbo..IE Ambipom and Hitmontop and Claydol. It's the same kind of people that hop on Nidoqueen and Crobat because "everyone" says it's so great. Certain Pokes fulfill certain niches that others cannot. Hitmontop, in this case, can spin AND provide defensive support for the ENTIRE team.

    TL;DR Hitmontop > Queen for this sort of team. His offensive pivots NEEDS the HP (Zapdos and Sharpedo). Slow taunt doesn't stop Froslass + Azelf or Mew, Hitmontop can alleviate most of his problems better than Nidoqueen can.
  10. Moose V

    Moose V

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    540
    @Relaunched I like the nidoqueen suggestion, however, like KatsnJase said, I do like switching a lot and hazards do really wear down the team and actually are probably most annoying to snorlax which w/ rocks/spikes + being asleep. That being said, toxic spikes would be very helpful, however the nidoqueen set you proposed doesn't help me with virizion or sabeleye. If I were to replace top with nidoqueen, I would keep the set you have but make it 252 spA instead of defense and give it a life orb. That way, I can easily deal with sabeleye and do a lot to virizion while still not being ohkod. Nidoqueen is a fine substitute, it really just depends on the user's style of play and hitmontop fits mine better. Also as for the UU ghosts, IMO dusclops never does anything, mismagius is insanely frail with only decent SpA and is normally outclassed by other special sweepers, non-trick room cofag gets worn down really easily and froslass is only good for hazards. So what I'm saying is, after being hit with a foresight, most UU ghosts simply become inferior to pokes that could do their job better but can't spinblock. Also keep in mind that the foresight carries on after hitmtop leaves so I could potentially kill mismagius fairly easily with snorlax. Also I'm kinda stuck with hitmontop as my spinner as, like I said, the other 2 in UU don't fit into the team very well.

    For the sub roost zapdos, I'm guessing you want something like 248 HP / 84 Def / 176 Spe. I agree that sub roost would work nicely with TS support, however as I'm choosing to to run TS support, the moment generated by volt switch is worth it. I guess there are two potential teams here, one with sub roost zapdos and nidoqueen and the other being the one above.

    I've actually tried crunch before on Snorlax for a while. What I found is that it's really only good for mismagius tho. What I like about whirlwind is that even without hazards up, it can help snorlax burn sleep turns so it can wake up. Thus if someone switches in something like machamp on the sleeping snorlax and I pull the whirlwind, I just end up one turn closer to being able to wake up. Pretty much, I like whirlwind because it can get rid of threats like DD kingdra, improve Lax's survivability, and scout what an opponent's primary switch into lax is so I can pull an appropriate double somewhere down the road.

    I know it might seem like I'm dismissing you, but I do like your first two suggestions and I'd imagine if someone like you used this team, it would be an improvement, but hitmontop fits my playstyle a little better.


    @Kats to be fair ambipoms pretty damn shitty most of the time :) but ya you raise some good points about top

    Also, "Hitmontop will come out on top."

    Can we acknowledge the puns?
  11. Aecor

    Aecor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    186
    If you think a Mon' is bad, don't use it breh :]

    Anyways, I feel like there isn't much room for improvement on this team...Only HP Flying on Zapdos would be better IMO.
  12. relaunched

    relaunched

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
    299
    First of all people talk about "playing styles" and it's just the wrong way of approaching things. Everyone should try to play the optimal style (which exists). I get annoyed every time I see people making comments about what best fits their style of play.

    Hitmontop isn't out of the question to use as a Pokemon, but it doesn't seem like your team really needs the Rapid Spin support it provides. The reason I suggested Nidoqueen is that it does do better against Umbreon between Taunt and Toxic Spikes. Seriously, this team is so destroyed by Umbreon teams played well and you need something that's at least reasonably solid against it. Also Nidoqueen does much better against T-Spikes Pokemon than Hitmontop, as it actually absorbs them while Hitmontop gets worn down.

    KatsnJase you are right in saying that I neglected some of the good points of Hitmontop, but I'd still say Nidoqueen is a good option. It would take a fair amount of testing to determine which is better.

    Also I think I agree that Whirlwind is better on Snorlax, given what you've said.
  13. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    553
    Congrats on the peak!

    I'd say Relaunched's Nidoqueen idea is a good one, and it can't hurt to try it out (on an alt obviously). Nidoqueen would make it even easier to remove T-Spikes on your side and you would gain the added bonus of getting T-Spikes of your own to use & abuse.

    How does this team deal with Walrein by the way? Not saying that it can't but I'd be interested to know how you go about dealing with it since it seems like it could be a big threat once it gets a sub up which could be pretty easy against a more defensive team like this one.
  14. Moose V

    Moose V

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    540
    Walrein's actually surprisingly not that annoying to this team for a couple reasons. The first is that I have 2 toxic users. The second is that I can break its sub with a volt switch and dodge a blizzard in the process. Also if it doesn't pack the surf, rhyperior can hurt it with rock blast a bit tho this is kinda iffy but if I get up rocks, I can just keep whirlwinding it away with lax. Finally, if all else fails, walrein can do literally nothing to snorlax and will get pp stalled if need be.

    Also ya i'm gonna try out nido
  15. Crimson

    Crimson

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    131
    Playing styles are indeed a thing. No matter what the optimal style may be, or 'meta', if it doesn't fit into what the player themselves like to play, they won't like it and play what does. If someone considers themselves an offensive player, if the current meta is stall, the offensive player will tailor their team to face stall while staying within their preferred method of playing. Playing styles is what keeps the game fresh and not so stagnated.

    All that said, like the team moose. From using my team, I found that Sleep Powder Roserade does a damn fine job of handling Umbreon 1 vs 1. You do, however, lose your intimidate user in Hitmontop, but it may be handy. I also support the Nidoqueen suggestion.
  16. relaunched

    relaunched

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
    299
    What I'm saying here is that if your battling strategy say "involves a lot of switching" as Moose's does, and you concede that others may do better with a team because they play different, then you're doing it wrong. You should adapt your battling style so that you can play a variety of styles. Not being able to play in certain ways can only be a hindrance. It's very hard to come up with a correct team-building style because it involves a ton of metagame judgments but if the way you play is hindering the way you're teambuilding that's an issue with the way you play and you should try to improve your playing.

    Also in good metagames I would say adaptability still keeps the meta plenty fresh. You are constantly assessing what teams beat what teams and usually this would end up in a cycle, where you use Team A because it's best against Team B and C which are most prevalent in the meta right now but then Team D becomes popular because it beats Team A etc. etc.
  17. Aecor

    Aecor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    186
    I have to disagree here. I may have misinterpreted, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as if you're saying "Jack of all trades, Master of none" in terms of play-style. I do not believe one style of play is superior to another. All play-styles have their perks. For example, for stall, it is essential to have a spinner to keep hazards off the field because the walls will be taking a LOT of damage since they themselves cannot dish out a lot of damage to an opponent. However, in a Hyper Offensive Rain team, a fast taunt user is used to shut down hazards, thereby saving a spot for a stronger and faster Pokemon.

    Moose, and I think any good battler would be able to adapt to a meta--but not by changing their playstyle, but rather adjusting. For example, I now use a cleric Togekiss in order to counter status stall. Before, I just used a RestTalk Suicine to absorb all the statuses I would be induced. However, the meta has shifted towards heavy physical hitters, therefore, Suicine plays a larger role on my team. Because of that. I'll use Togekiss as a bulky pivot in order to break stall AND provide cleric support. I could opt to use a fast-offensive team or bulky offense, but that's just not my play-style.

    Play-styles are in a way related, but they cannot be properly compared. It's like comparing a major in Business to a major in Law; both have their perks, but you cannot directly compare them with each other.
  18. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    684
    You actually battled me yesterday with this exact team, with me under the alt Innovator. Turn 1 I burned your Slowking with Cofagrigus, and then, expecting you to outright attack, I used Shadow Ball, which hit Sharpedo instead. I switched in Arbok expecting Crunch. Thanks to Intimidate, I could have taken another hit, but you forfeited right there. Did you just misplay?

    Anyway, what that short battle taught me is that your team is weak to Cofagrigus. Half of your team absolutely hates burns, and I at least ran Energy Ball (will change to Grass Knot) as a coverage move to manhandle Swampert/Rhyperior. Cofagrigus can take one Crunch from Sharpedo and ruin its ability, then set up Trick Room on it or burn it. Your best bet is to poison it, but then many teams run a cleric or Xatu to keep that kind of thing in line. Besides status, you don't have much of a way to handle a healthy Cofagrigus since Sharpedo gets burned or KOed immediately. My suggestion is to run Taunt somewhere. Initially I think running Houndoom over Sharpedo is a good idea, something like Taunt/Pursuit/Fire Blast/Hidden Power Grass with a Life Orb, and if Houndoom switches in on Will-o-Wisp Fire Blast becomes a nuke. It might be worth consideration, otherwise a very well-put together team! If you want a rematch let me know!
  19. Moose V

    Moose V

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    540
    Unless I'm playing PS in my sleep I'm pretty sure that wasn't me but rather someone else using my team. I don't remember facing an Arbok anytime recently in UU and switching into sharpedo on a confagrigus is definitely not my play-syle. Plus I would never throw a game away like that at turn 3. Anyway, here's how I deal with cofagrigus. First, I'd switch into lax to scout what the Cof wanted to do. If it went for trick room or nasty plot, I'd whirlwind it out immediately. Seeing this set tells me that zapdos would be a pretty good swith-in to cofagrigus in the future and would threaten it out. If I see a more defensive move like will-o wisp, I'd probably absorb the burn with Lax (I can rest that away later) then double into zapdos to take an hp fighting or pain split etc. and volt switch or toxic from there. Burns can be fairly annoying to this team, you're right, and that's why I added sableye to the list of thins that annoy this team.
  20. relaunched

    relaunched

    Joined:
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    I think you understand me. Let's see if I understand you. Is the crux of what you're saying that no one playstyle is better than another? If so, allow me to prove you wrong.

    Consider a set of n strategies [s_1, s_2, ..., s_n]. A strategy represents the set of actions a player takes in each possible position (or choice of team). Let's say that no one strategy dominates the other, that is that for every s_i, there is at least one position where s_j plays a better move than s_i. Then we can form a new strategy, s_(n+1), which does better than all the others by mixing these strategies and picking and choosing best moves from each ones.

    If you play with this "one true style", you don't need to adjust your team to your style, but you can rather adjust your team solely to the metagame.

    Of course, that's an ambitious goal to achieve indeed. I don't think anybody plays this well.
  21. Kitten Milk

    Kitten Milk [22:59:31] <KittenUU> 241 of which are fellacious
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    883
    Awesome team :) I also would like to note that the layout on your RMTs is seriously fucking amazing, and something I wish I could eventually do instead of shitty gimmicky word pictures ;)

    That said, I don't have really any criticisms for this team, it's obviously been doing ok for you ^.^ The only thing I have to mention is that Snorlax seems to have eaten his, Zapdos, and Sharpedo's items, because you currently don't have any items for them on the RMT ;D
  22. GucciCondom69

    GucciCondom69

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    Man this is one of those teams that you want to fit a Spike user in there, but space just doesn't allow you to at all.

    The only thing that I would consider if you haven't already is to change your Slowbro to Specs with Trick.

    Slowbro @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Fire Blast
    - Trick

    Rypherior and Hitmontop are more than enough to handle the common physical threats. Specs Slowbro can still moderately check what he needs to check and can punish common switch ins like Shaymin and Roserade with ease thanks to Psyshock and Fire Blast. Fire Blast has about a 60% chance to OHKO Brongzong. Brongzong can freely status 5/6 members of your team without much punishment and nothing on your team can really touch him.

    Trick provides you a solid falll back plan in dealing with Crocune who as you mentioned earlier is a pain to deal with it. If you are ever forced to kill an opponents 5th Pokemon with anything other than Zapdos, you have a high chance of being Crocune swept. At +1 Zapdos T-bolts are a 3HKO and at +2 it is pretty much over unless you get a Crit.
  23. Moose V

    Moose V

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    540
    Thanks for the rate! I actually took a lot more time with this RMT than usual (made a banner for the team, the more detailed layout of each pokemon, the synergy part after the description of each guy) so I'm glad someone appreciated it :) I like your layout style a lot too tho and the pictures make me laugh :) Thanks for catching the items thing, I can't believe I didn't notice it before tho I guess they weren't any great mystery. The snorlax is lefties as is the zapdos and the sharpedo's lfe orb.
  24. Moose V

    Moose V

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
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    540
    I actually really like this idea. I'll play around with trick specs slowbrow later tonight and see how it works out. Thanks for the rate!

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