XY OU Trap Lord Season Begins - Peaked at 1720

[Fortune]

INTRO
​

Hey guys! Fortune here. This is actually my first RMT posted on Smogon so hopefully you guys can provide some insight to help improve my team.

After messing around in XY OU for a few months, I decided it was time to get serious about winning. Since then, my teambuilding skills have developed a bit and it's been reflected in my gradually increasing rank. I have recently made some nice teams but this is the first one that I believe is worthy of an RMT. It is still not perfect by any means which is exactly why I am turning to you guys for some advice.

TEAMBUILDING PROCESS​

Teambuilding Process

This team began with the GothiDos core. This particular core captured my interest because it destroys the ever-present Stall and M-Gyarados is just a cool mon with a unique combination of bulk and offense. It makes for a great late game sweeper and is just so deadly after getting to +1.

Obviously no core is complete without it's fair share of weaknesses. Some notable mons that give GothiDos trouble include Kyurem-B, Conkeldurr, and Breloom. Clefable can take care of these Pokes with ease as well as provide Unaware and Stealth Rock support. I don't think Clefable is a replaceable mon on the team at this point with it's valued Fairy typing. Not to mention it baits in those troubling Steel types which it can nail with a decently powerful Flamethrower.

The team still has some flaws. For example, it still can't take on opposing Fairies and some Steel types that well. For these reasons, I added Magnezone to the squad. It takes on stuff like Scizor with ease and aids in Gothitelle's job of destroying stall teams and Gyarados' checks and counters. It quickly became a staple of the team.

None of team really appreciates hazards. Rocks wear down Gyarados if I ever need to bring it in prior to endgame and quickly diminishes it's sweeping capabilities. Hazards also reveal that my Clefable is Unaware inclining my opponents to status it, therefore cutting down on it's normally impressive longevity. For these reasons a defogger was needed. Right now, the Latitwins are some of the most reliable hazard removers. I opted to run Latios over his twin because it learns EQ-- a crucial part in defeating Heatran, aka a common switch in and a mon that generally defeats my team without Gyara. Latios also adds another layer of synergy by completing the DragMag core-- a still viable option in the current meta, imo. Draco support is always nice, too.

Lastly, a mon was needed to patch up any flaws the team might have. I noticed a weakness to things like Zard Y, Breloom, Bisharp, Mawile, and Greninja. All of these mons can be taken on by Talonflame. Everyone loves a little BirdSpam, yeah?

AN IN-DEPTH LOOK

Gyarados @

Ability: Intimidate ---> Mold Breaker
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Dragon Dance | Waterfall | Earthquake | Substitute

---

Half of the core of this team. I feel like it doesn't need as much explanation as some of the other pokes. After this thing gets up a DD and its checks and counters are removed by the rest of the team, it's pretty much GG. One of the best late game sweepers and definitely worth the mega spot. It's raw bulk is comparable to that of Ferrothorn and it's type change can force 50/50s with stuff like Landorus-I. Such a good Pokemon. Please try this thing if you haven't already.

Gothitelle @

Ability: Shadow Tag
Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
EVs: 84 HP / 252 SpA / 172 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
Psyshock | Thunderbolt | HP Fire | Trick

---

Gothitelle completes the dynamic duo. To be completely honest, I just ripped these two sets off of this thread, so don't ask me about EVs and stuff. I actually used Psyshock over Psychic to better take on Special Walls. As the post states, Gothitelle pretty much destroys all of Gyardos' counters including the likes of Slowbro, Skarmory, Mandibuzz, Ferrothorn, and Mega Venusaur by trapping them and hitting them with a respective super-effective move. Trick can cripple some things by stealing an Eviolite or just forcing them to lock themselves into one move.

Clefable @

Ability: Magic Guard
Nature: Calm (+SpD, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
IVs: 0 Atk
Stealth Rock | Moonblast | Flamethrower | Soft-Boiled

---

As mentioned in the Teambuilding Process, Clefable brings unique support to the table, whether it be Unaware, Rocks, or just it's amazing typing. As much as I'd like to run CM on this thing, it's actually the only thing that can learn Stealth Rock on the team so I'm pretty much stuck with that. CM would definitely be helpful but I haven't run into many scenarios where it's been more useful than those precious pebbles. It takes care of fighting types like Breloom and Conkeldurr that GothiDos can't take out and puts a stop to Cube.

Magnezone @

Ability: Magnet Pull
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
Thunderbolt | Flash Cannon | HP Ice | Volt Switch

---

Magnezone is still pretty viable in the current meta. With a scarf, it outpaces the likes of non-scarfed Keldeo, Garchomp, Gengar and Thundurus. It can soak up incoming paralysis and poison and then gain momentum with a speedy Volt Switch. It's Steel typing is crucial to the team as it adds a plethora of resistances and basically shuts down most Fairies. I opted to run HP Ice to nail those Ground types that enjoy switching in. It's so satisfying when your opponent loses their Lando-T because they thought they were safe. The only other Hidden Power I would consider running is Fire to easily kill Scizor but Thunderbolt still has a very good chance to 2HKO after rocks (as seen below).

252 SpA Magnezone Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 148-175 (43 - 50.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Latios @

Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Defog | Draco Meteor | Psyshock | Surf

---

Ah, Latios. There isn't too much to say about this guy. He brings very good synergy to the team by removing hazards and dropping powerful Dracos on basically anything. I opted for Latios over Latias because of it's extra Attack. Completes the DragMag core.

Talonflame @

Ability: Gale Wings
Nature: Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Def
Bulk Up | Brave Bird | Roost | Taunt

---

Pretty self-explanitory. Basically my check to fast/powerful & frail attackers like Weavile, Breloom, and Zard Y. It also is great with Will-O because it can bait things like Bisharp and Mawile to Sucker Punch, only to be burned and then hit with a STAB Flare Blitz. I ended up running Taunt over U-Turn because it's my only answer to that popular Baton Pass team where Smeargle passes a Geomancy/Cotton Guard to Espeon. Talonflame is still a really good Pokemon and it offers the much needed priority to my team. 208 speed is to always outspeed M-Pinsir. EDIT: See Srn9130's post.


Importable/Conclusion

Thanks for taking the time to look over my team. Any help would be appreciated. Here is the importable.
​

Importable

Gyarados (M) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake

Gothitelle (F) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs: 84 HP / 252 SpA / 172 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick

Clefable (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Soft-Boiled

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Surf

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch

Talonflame (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Taunt
- Bulk Up
- Brave Bird
- Roost

MODIFICATIONS HAVE BEEN MARKED IN RED
(Please note that text relating to said modifications hasn't been revised)​

 

[Kazuma Yato]

Great team, I just think your Talonflame set is a bit.. weak.
It can't really take on some of the things you need it to take on, mainly Greninja and Charizard Y.
I suggest a Choice Band 4 Attacks set or it could also have Sleep Talk so you have something to take a spore but not be useless through-out the game but if you really want to be free in terms of move picks at least run Swords Dance over Will-O-Wisp.
Also, most Mega Scizor run 100 SpDef these days.

 

[Fortune]

Great team, I just think your Talonflame set is a bit.. weak.
It can't really take on some of the things you need it to take on, mainly Greninja and Charizard Y.
I suggest a Choice Band 4 Attacks set or it could also have Sleep Talk so you have something to take a spore but not be useless through-out the game but if you really want to be free in terms of move picks at least run Swords Dance over Will-O-Wisp.
Also, most Mega Scizor run 100 SpDef these days.

Thanks for the input! Thing is, if I don't run Will-O, my team gets steamrolled by the likes of Bisharp and Mawile. Charizard Y is probably the least of my worries out of the mentioned Pokemon considering I have Latios and Gyarados. As long as it can outspeed and KO after rocks, I think I will be fine. Also, a Brave Bird will leave Greninja to a point where Life Orb/Rocks will take it out if it isn't KO'd (as seen below).

252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 262-309 (91.6 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

I still believe running Sharp Beak/Sky Plate is my best bet. Regarding the moveset, I don't see SD necessary as I already have a physical set-up sweeper and I need that extra moveslot to take on certain things. I will, however, consider running another attack (U-Turn) in place of Taunt. I will see how it goes.

 

[Kazuma Yato]

Thanks for the input! Thing is, if I don't run Will-O, my team gets steamrolled by the likes of Bisharp and Mawile. Charizard Y is probably the least of my worries out of the mentioned Pokemon considering I have Latios and Gyarados. As long as it can outspeed and KO after rocks, I think I will be fine. Also, a Brave Bird will leave Greninja to a point where Life Orb/Rocks will take it out if it isn't KO'd (as seen below).

252+ Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 262-309 (91.6 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

I still believe running Sharp Beak/Sky Plate is my best bet. Regarding the moveset, I don't see SD necessary as I already have a physical set-up sweeper and I need that extra moveslot to take on certain things. I will, however, consider running another attack (U-Turn) in place of Taunt. I will see how it goes.

Oh wow alright, the calc gave me jolly tflame :/, sorry.
yeah u-turn is great too.

 

[Srn]

Yo nice team, but I'd change the gyara set a bit

Gothitelle basically traps everything gyarados doesn't like (Skarm, Chansey, Ferrothorn, etc) except for kyu-b, which is a solid check to gyarados. It also doesn't do too well against defensive zapdos, and even though you have ice fang, when I'm using gothitelle with mega gyarados I like to use Stone Edge>Ice fang, to hit Kyu-b and zapdos harder. Give it a try :]

When I run taunt on my talonflame, I generally prefer to just go Bulk Up+Taunt talonflame, which is simply max sp. def with (taunt, bulk up, brave bird, roost). It checks char-y and lando very nicely and helps keep gyara healthy so it doesnt' lose health checking those. Talon also sets up on fairies like mega mawile and clefable that could give gyara trouble, so I think it'd be nice to just have a sturdier answer to fairy mons.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Talonflame: 182-214 (50.6 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (talon has to taunt)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. +1 248 HP / 8 Def Talonflame: 121-143 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
From there you just set up, definitely nice.
Also beats sp. def gliscor and tauntwisp mew 1v1, so that's another plus, considering those two can come in on latios pretty comfortably.

Lastly, I'd look into latias>latios cuz gyara loses some health checking threats like keldeo and exca, and I think that (especially with no hp investment) it will be too weak to sweep late-game, so healing wish could come in real handy then.

Other than that, this is a rly kool team, good luck with it!

 

[Fortune]

Yo nice team, but I'd change the gyara set a bit

Gothitelle basically traps everything gyarados doesn't like (Skarm, Chansey, Ferrothorn, etc) except for kyu-b, which is a solid check to gyarados. It also doesn't do too well against defensive zapdos, and even though you have ice fang, when I'm using gothitelle with mega gyarados I like to use Stone Edge>Ice fang, to hit Kyu-b and zapdos harder. Give it a try :]

When I run taunt on my talonflame, I generally prefer to just go Bulk Up+Taunt talonflame, which is simply max sp. def with (taunt, bulk up, brave bird, roost). It checks char-y and lando very nicely and helps keep gyara healthy so it doesnt' lose health checking those. Talon also sets up on fairies like mega mawile and clefable that could give gyara trouble, so I think it'd be nice to just have a sturdier answer to fairy mons.
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Talonflame: 182-214 (50.6 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (talon has to taunt)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. +1 248 HP / 8 Def Talonflame: 121-143 (33.7 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
From there you just set up, definitely nice.
Also beats sp. def gliscor and tauntwisp mew 1v1, so that's another plus, considering those two can come in on latios pretty comfortably.

Lastly, I'd look into latias>latios cuz gyara loses some health checking threats like keldeo and exca, and I think that (especially with no hp investment) it will be too weak to sweep late-game, so healing wish could come in real handy then.

Other than that, this is a rly kool team, good luck with it!

Cool! Thanks for the rate. I will definitely take your advice on Gyara and Talonflame. Taunt/Bulk Up Talon will definitely help keeping Heatran in check (without AncientPower/Stone Edge, that is). I will also consider Latias > Latios but having EQ just seems too crucial atm. Once again, thank you!

 

[aim]

Hey Fortune this is actually a really solid team so I don't have too much that i'd wanna change. I love Earthquake on Latios as it definitely lures in Heatran allowing Talonflame for an easier sweep so props to you! Greninja however is a huge threat to your team. None of your members outspeed it (Choice Scarf Magnezone hitting only 360 iirc) and every member is 2 hit k0'd. I'd suggest changing Clefable from Unaware to Magic Guard as well as running a bit of special defense investment that way you are never 2 hit k0'd by Greninja and can come in free on hazards. This also gives your team a great status absorber and is still a reliable stealth rocker and check to those pesky fighting types!

Clefable

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Soft-Boiled
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower

Besides that I think the team looks good. Agreeing with the change made by Srn913 as it definitely fits the team. Anyway, cool team, and hope i helped! :]

 

[chimpact]

You could potentially change latios to latias with healing wish and give gyarados substitute so you can play a bit more reckless with it and it handles bulky waters a lot better. suicune wont be able to break substitute and you can continuously set up DD's against it. it eases prediction a bit, especially if they make a desperate play. with healing wish, you can stay in on mons that would potentially scare you out like greninja, latios etc. so clefable is less pressured.

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 76 HP / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Healing Wish
- Defog
- Surf

with surf and magnezone, heatran will just get wittled.... It's up to you if you want the more offensive mon

solid team

 

[Daniel OM]

Nice team, just my 5c: If you wish to use trick on Gothi, use a calm mind too. Locking a staller on a protect or useless move will let you full boost her, sweeping away.

 

[Fortune]

Nice team, just my 5c: If you wish to use trick on Gothi, use a calm mind too. Locking a staller on a protect or useless move will let you full boost her, sweeping away.

Thanks for the suggestion but I think that in order to completely shut down all of M-Gyara's counters it needs all three of those offensive moves.

You could potentially change latios to latias with healing wish and give gyarados substitute so you can play a bit more reckless with it and it handles bulky waters a lot better. suicune wont be able to break substitute and you can continuously set up DD's against it. it eases prediction a bit, especially if they make a desperate play. with healing wish, you can stay in on mons that would potentially scare you out like greninja, latios etc. so clefable is less pressured.

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 76 HP / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Healing Wish
- Defog
- Surf

with surf and magnezone, heatran will just get wittled.... It's up to you if you want the more offensive mon

solid team

Thanks, chimpact. I will definitely try this and see how it goes.

 

[Srn]

not a real rate- just a dumb nitpick- in the heatran vs EQ latios calc you say OHKO after rocks but you don't have rocks on this team, so yeah, should be fixed

Rocks is on clefable

 

[TheEnder]

Hey there Fortune, really solid and unique team you have here :] I am just gonna suggest some minor nitpicks, as there is not really a lot to say;

First off, Gyarados doesn't need max Speed, as the fastest mon you will need to outspeed after one Dragon Dance is Noivern. Therefore, I would suggest changing Gyara's Speed EV's to 220, which gives you some more bulk.

Gyarados

Gyarados @

Ability: Intimidate ---> Mold Breaker
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Dragon Dance | Waterfall | Earthquake | Substitute

On Latios, I would suggest running Surf > Earthquake, as it lets you effectievly beat Excadrill, SDef Gliscor (who gives you a lot of problems) and still dent Heatran and Mawile on the switch. This makes Latios have a much better matchup against offense, while still retaining it's niche as a lure :)

Latios

Latios @

Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Defog | Draco Meteor | Psyshock | Surf

Hope I helped with your team, good luck onwards :]

 

[eden]

HP FIghting to counter opposing Bisharp/Tyranitar coming in to take advantage of your Defog/To pursuit trap you

 

[Fortune]

Hey there Fortune, really solid and unique team you have here :] I am just gonna suggest some minor nitpicks, as there is not really a lot to say;

First off, Gyarados doesn't need max Speed, as the fastest mon you will need to outspeed after one Dragon Dance is Noivern. Therefore, I would suggest changing Gyara's Speed EV's to 220, which gives you some more bulk.

Gyarados

Gyarados @

Ability: Intimidate ---> Mold Breaker
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe
Dragon Dance | Waterfall | Earthquake | Substitute

On Latios, I would suggest running Surf > Earthquake, as it lets you effectievly beat Excadrill, SDef Gliscor (who gives you a lot of problems) and still dent Heatran and Mawile on the switch. This makes Latios have a much better matchup against offense, while still retaining it's niche as a lure :)

Latios

Latios @

Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Defog | Draco Meteor | Psyshock | Surf

Hope I helped with your team, good luck onwards :]

Thanks for the reply. I will definitely try out a more bulky Gyarados but that spread doesn't cover all 508 EVs, just so you know. :]

 

[Halcyon.]

Hi

Since there are already a lot of good rates here, this won't be a long post, I just want to point out that I don't see much use in running Earthquake Latios AND Taunt BU Talonflame, since both already lure Heatran. I would either change Taunt back to Will-O-Wisp (since it's not like your team struggles against stall lol), or change EQ Latios to Surf, which can still hit Heatran for a 2HKO, while also hitting Excadrill, Gliscor, and Landorus.

Just a quick tip but I hope I was able to help. Good luck!

 

[TheEnder]

Thanks for the reply. I will definitely try out a more bulky Gyarados but that spread doesn't cover all 508 EVs, just so you know. :]

Haha sorry, it was meant to say 224 Spe, my bad :)

 

[GreenMonkey]

Hiya firstly I've always loved trappers to provide invaluable support to stallbreaking sweepers! Onto the rate.

RE: Talonflame, I agree with Kazuma Yato Talonflame seems to be the weak link and provides the opponent with a weak point to abuse, SRocks, granted you do have a defogger but U-Turn from Lando-T and Knock Offs from Gliscors hurt you a lot. Also might I add that Mega-Mawile wrecks your team at +2 or otherwise, since BraveBird wont do much to it after intimidate and youll most likely be forced to taunt/bulk up or switch which (bar taunt) gives it a free sub or SD. Magnezone is 2HKO'ed by Sucker Punch and the Focus Punch, Iron Head, Play Rough set behind a sub does a number on any one of your mons. Just something to consider, Talonflame adds a bit of albeit frail stallbreaking potential and late game sweeping, but with no attack investment it really struggles to dent common sweepers. For this reason and to tackle the frail sweeper problem/mawile problem to some extent. You could try either a phys def Lando-T with rocks, allowing Clefable to become a CM win condition late game in place of Talonflame. Or Thundurus-I as once it gets a Twave off frail sweepers are no longer sweepers, they are just bait for another MegaDos sweep. And Mawile does not appreciate a Tbolt or Paralysis as does Breloom (HP Ice). Granted they often carry rock tomb but if you go for a lead sashed Thundy i feel it would add a lot more reliability to your team, with the defog support, and checking flying spam and OHKO'ing lead Zard Ys. TTar is the lead you must watch out for though.

Summary: Talonflame > Lando-T (Lead/Pivot) or Thundy-I (Lead) It depends on what you have more trouble with, Fast Sweepers that need paralysis or fast sweepers that need checking. Both do a decent job of stopping flying spam too as i think ive already mentioned.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 224 HP / 4 Atk / 192 Def / 92 Spe -- Outspeed Adamant Brelooms/Bisharps and base 70s
Lax Nature
- U-turn
- Rock Slide
- HP Fire
- Stealth Rock

Hp fire is to hit Ferros etc for the 2HKO, just my personal set though, also might i add that specs zone with HP fire OHKO's most of the steels youll be trapping before they can roost or get up an SD or 2HKO you with sucker punch. RSlide is more reliable than SEdge. Alternatively you could run Knock Off/U-Turn/Rocks/SE or EQ.

Thundurus @ Leftovers / Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice / If you keep HP Ice on Zone then run Taunt Here, And U-Turn out of lead Ttars, granted a sash will be broken, but you have healing wish if you need to heal it up for a win condition.
- Focus Blast / U-Turn -- Consider as to get more opportunities for trapping.