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Discussion in 'Doubles' started by Arcticblast, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast It hasn't been as nice at night these last few days
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner

    Nov 29, 2008
    EDIT: As of April 15th (although we all knew it already) Gourgeist-Super outclasses Trevenant in almost every role. Trevenant's only major selling point is its ability to OHKO Rotom-W with Wood Hammer.

    based fucking tree

    85 / 110 / 76 / 65 / 82 / 56
    Natural Cure / Frisk / Harvest

    Notable moves:
    Trick Room
    Horn Leech
    Wood Hammer
    Shadow Claw
    Phantom Force

    Other interesting moves:
    Rock Slide
    Forest's Curse (signature move)
    Destiny Bond
    Poison Jab (fairies)

    Trevenant seems kind of like a pushover at first. Only one stat above 100, doesn't have the typing to compliment that, and a relatively small (albeit varied) movepool. Trevenant has a few tricks up its sleeves though. Its typing makes it immune to Fake Out and gives it some awesome resistances, making it an excellent Trick Room setter. Its biggest virtue is easily Harvest though - while occasionally seen on Exeggutor and Tropius (lol) last generation, they didn't quite have the stuff to make it work. Trevenant does. Will-O-Wisp and a specially defensive spread make it very hard to OHKO, at which point it eats its Sitrus Berry and often gets another Sitrus Berry due to Harvest. The thing just doesn't die.

    It does have its downfalls though - it can't tank too many hits with an offensive spread and can't deal a ton of damage with a defensive spread. It basically loses to Talonflame if it doesn't have a Sub up and it can't fight off powerful Blizzards. Still though, it's an excellent Pokemon to hold a team together and a solid choice for your next team.


    Treek Room
    Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Harvest
    EVs: 252 HP / 12 Atk / 244 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Wood Hammer / Horn Leech
    - Shadow Claw / Phantom Force / Will-O-Wisp
    - Protect

    Standard TR setter here, not much else to discuss. EVs do something that I set up and promptly forgot about. Trick Room and dual STAB do their thing, which ends up being really nice against (or in!) Rain.

    such wow
    Trevenant (M) @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Harvest
    EVs: 96 Atk / 252 HP / 160 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Horn Leech
    - Substitute
    - Phantom Force
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
    Laga, Andrew, Joim and 3 others like this.
  2. Boogle


    Oct 9, 2013
    I can see Forest's Curse + a heat wave spammer being a lot of fun to use. Sort of gimmicky considering that taunt can cripple him, and Trevenant isn't too bulky and could get knocked out before even doing it, but 2HKOs could easily become OHKOs depending on who you throw that third grass typing onto. Thank god Follow Me/Rage Powder exists to make this strategy easier.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
  3. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke Larvitard
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
    VGC Leader

    Jun 9, 2007
    I think we can all agree that when this thing gets an analysis, the set name should be "Treek Room"
  4. Pwnemon

    Pwnemon is a more intuitive player
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Doubles Co-Lead

    Aug 26, 2010
    no the set name needs to be "such wow"

    because this is the actual best set:

    Trevenant (M) @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Harvest
    EVs: 96 Atk / 252 HP / 160 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Horn Leech
    - Substitute
    - Phantom Force

    This set is absolutely amazing glue for any team. Move your fucking ass to the side, Ferrothorn, tree is the ultimate cleanup wall. Substitute pressures your opponent into doubling on Tree, which is really hard to do given his impressive resistances, and he can beat almost all physical attackers since Will-O-Wisp. Horn Leech lets him shit on threatening Pokemon such as Rotom-W (2hkoed thru sitrus), while Sub lets you avoid rotom-w's burn. The given EVs survive megagar shadow ball, and you ko back with phantom force, which is a great move to troll all of the people who try to protect on the mega-evolve turn, as you're now behind a sub and about to strike them while dodging their shadow ball or anything else. Even if you're predicted, Phantom Force breaks protect so GG. Phantom Force also lets you stall for more berry regen turns, and sub lets you beat talonflame 1v1 if it's already up on the switch. I'm not kidding when i say 80+% of my games have become remove the 1 or 2 pokemon that can 1v1 tree and then cleanup wall the rest. It's spectacular and tree gives me boners.
    BlankZero likes this.
  5. Otter Power

    Otter Power

    Nov 3, 2013
    I like the idea of using Forest's curse on an ally to add resistances or something, but then you'd end up with two grass-types. I wonder who would benefit from getting Grass added to them?
  6. Aasgier


    Dec 2, 2012
    Sudowoodo and Gallade as they have Grass-attacks, and powerful ones at that. Sudowoodo becomes more neutral too, having less weaknesses/resistances when being part-Grass.
    It could also be used in combination with something that hits Grass for SE damage for sort of other gimmicks, so you can hit your enemies harder.
  7. Skore


    Apr 24, 2011
    I can only think of adding it to an ally water or flying type to save them from Electric attacks but in most cases it's actually a detriment to add grass typing as it adds more weakness than it circumvents,
  8. youngjake93


    Sep 3, 2012
    Any Rock type can steal Cradily's great typing. Regirock has almost the same exact stats as Cradily except it has double the defense stat. Water/Rock/Grass seems like a ridiculous typing.
    BlankZero likes this.
  9. n3ther


    Jun 11, 2007
    Heatran (when available) benefits more than any other steel type from grass typing since it is already immune to fire. Ground becomes 2x effective, water is now neutral. It only loses a flying resist which is not that meaningful.
    Heatran has always synergized well with grass/psychic and grass/ghost is basically a superior typing in every way. These two could be dangerous together in trick room.
    Pocket and BlankZero like this.
  10. BlankZero


    Aug 25, 2012
    Can you say Suicune?

    Water/Grass is pretty damn good typing offensively, and Tailwind 'Cune would enjoy losing Grass/Electric weaknesses.
  11. lucariojr

    lucariojr it's nothing to sneasel at
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Jun 2, 2009
    ive been using trevenant on my wifi team for a while now so now i can talk about it somewhat!! hooray!

    first off, i switched from phantom force to w-o-w on my TR tree. wow just helped so much in crippling big threats like tyranitar so they can't ohko me while i cycle my sitrus. w-o-w is also one of the main reasons to use tree over exeggutor (which, now that i think about it, is another tree), which takes two turns and moveslots to lower attacking stats and rarely has room for its own crippling move, sleep powder. phantom force also doesn't make use of trick room since it takes two turns to use, although if you use it on the last turn of trick room you get effectively two turns of invulnerability, which is cool i guess? on the sub set, i'd say i'd probably prefer w-o-w over phantom force there as well for much of the same reason, though it's more understandable if you plan on paralyzing everything so tree can set up its subs. protect is an absolute MUST on ANY trevenant so you can buy turns to cycle your sitrus, so please don't try to use phantom force as a substitute (or use phantom force as substitute the move).

    secondly, it's too slow, and i think this is where you guys overestimate tree. not in terms of speed, but in terms of dealing damage. tree is easy to ohko if you have the means to do so (talonflame, chandelure, etc), and since the only way tree is going to deal damage is through horn leech, taunt is an incredibly easy way to neuter it. sure you can support it with more taunt and surround it with stuff like mega blastoise (ohkos tree predators and has fake out), but is all that support worth slowly simply whittling away at your opponent, while you can deal the same damage in one go with more offensive mons, especially when people can gang up on tree's subs with heat wave/blizzard or single target moves?

    dont get me wrong; i like tree (i used it before it was cool), but i cant help but think its overhyped.
    Pocket likes this.
  12. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast It hasn't been as nice at night these last few days
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a SPL Winner

    Nov 29, 2008
    That's why I like using Wood Hammer on my Trevenant - even with a bit less Attack investment, 120 versus 75 is significant. Using the "standard" 96 Adamant spread, Horn Leech has no hope of OHKOing any variant of Rotom-W - in fact, Horn Leech isn't a guaranteed OHKO on 0/0 R-W even with max Attack - but Wood Hammer only requires 44 Attack EVs (with Adamant) to guarantee a OHKO on Rotom-W. Wood Hammer also makes it less Taunt bait. You Taunted my tree? Eat a 120 BP STAB attack. Normally the recoil could be pretty deadly, but with Harvest Sitrus it's not as bad as it might seem. Trevenant is very capable of lasting forever with Horn Leech, but if you're using Wood Hammer I personally believe you'll get way more offensive force out of it.

    96+ Atk Trevenant Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 200-236 (82.98 - 97.92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Trevenant Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 228-270 (94.6 - 112.03%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO
    44+ Atk Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 306-360 (100.65 - 118.42%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    more HAMMER calcs (open)
    44+ Atk Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 278-330 (72.39 - 85.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - 96+ Horn Leech gets the 2HKO normally, but Politoed often carries Sitrus, making it less likely if even possible.
    44+ Atk Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 168-198 (57.73 - 68.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - 96+ Horn Leech doesn't do shit lmao
    44+ Atk Trevenant Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 243-286 (67.12 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    more to come

    tl;dr fuck Horn Leech, use Wood Hammer
  13. Audiosurfer

    Audiosurfer have one on me
    is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Staff Alumnus

    Apr 24, 2012
    Am agreeing with lucariojr regarding Trevenant being overhyped. Although it's nice it's heavily damaged by Pokemon such as Metagross who only need to have a Lum Berry equipped to snag a 2HKO as the opponent tried to Will-O-Wisp. In addition, there are plenty of Pokemon such as Abomasnow and Volcarona that can scare it out or use it as setup fodder or something, and the number will only increase in a month when Pokebank is around and mons like Heatran are running loose. That said, Trevenant is still a good Pokemon thanks to it's nice typing, support moves and Harvest. Another thing I agree w/ lucariojr on is the need for Protect. I've used Phantom Force on Trevenant and I was pretty underwhelmed by it, since it was too slow and wasn't doing enough for me to justify the slot or the turn to use it. It breaks Protect which is cool but taking the turn to use it isn't cool, especially when you're not investing much in Trevenant's attack anyways so it'll hardly be messing up opposing mons.
  14. hauptj


    Nov 12, 2013
    Would he be a good pair with Florges? Suddenly, all that grass synergy she has actually helps her as well. T1 Forrest's Curse and Grassy Terrain, T2 STABed terrain boosted Petal Dance with 112 Sp.Atk while he supports her with WoW or Reflect or whatever, while Flower Veil prevents either of them from having their stats lowered. Or too slow for double battles?

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