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Trick room in bw2

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Neliel, Nov 2, 2012.

  1. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    565
    Hi there guys! today while i was laddering i found a pretty cool trick room team, and it made me think a lot. I was using a very fast team, and as you can imagine, i lost in a very bad way. In fact, when you are facing a trick room team, you understand that the speed of your strategy doesnt matter anymore, and i think that this can be a very antimetagame thing. To make you understand how fast placed this metamage is, the base 100 speed pokemon can not sweep anymore without speed boosts, Garchomp comes to mind for example, if you dont use Substitute or Salac berry you will be revenge killed the most of the time, or dragonite, being more common as a Choice bander pokemon, since even after one boost is easily revenge killed. We also have things like Tornadus-t, Agility pokemon like Thundurus, Landorus, or Genesect, and scarfed pokemon to outspeed other scarfed pokemon, for example Latios, being more and more common as a scarfer just to outspeed Tornadus, and Scarfkion (Latios Choice Scarf 20.931% according to the october stat). Definitely trick room should be a more used thing nowadays, here i will post some example of trick room sweepers.

    [​IMG]
    Reuniclus (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Trick Room
    - Psyshock/ Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball / Hp Fire

    [​IMG]
    Duosion (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Trick
    - Psyshock
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    (yup guys, they all have the same sp. atk)

    [​IMG]
    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Trick Room
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    - Recover

    [​IMG]
    Victini @ (whatever you want)
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Trick Room
    - V-create
    - Sunny Day / Fusion Bolt
    - Final Gambit / Brick Break

    [​IMG]
    Slowking (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Trick Room
    - Nasty Plot
    - Psychic
    - Surf

    and so on..
    For sure there are a lot of other things to be mentioned, for example Chandelure, Jellicent, Gothitelle, Cofagrigus, Cresselia, Bronzong, Mew. I also think that Explosion users as well as Lunar Dance can be used in order to mantain momentum for the team.
    So guys, what do you think about trick room in this meta? Do you think that a full Trick room can work or not? Do you think that something fast is still necessary? Can something really slow without Trick room be used in a trick room team?​
  2. bubbly

    bubbly

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2009
    Messages:
    883
    I've used Trick Room quite a bit in the last few months and have found, while full TR rooms are still reasonably effective, having two or so TR mons (a defensive mon / supporter + sweeper) is really useful on a lot of balanced / defensive teams to check dangerous threats as well as finish off weakened offensive teams. TR Bronzong + Reuniclus is a good example, which I've used on a lot of Hail teams (Hail stalling wears down everything which checks Reuniclus).
  3. SalTheThief

    SalTheThief

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2010
    Messages:
    341
    Oh goodie, a trick room thread! I started using an old team of mine from BW recently. Life Orb Guts Machamp wrecks on a full TR team. The nice thing about him is that a lot of people will either assume you're No Guard or attempt to status your dedicated roomers. +1 LO Close Combat coming off Brave Machamp hurts pretty hard.

    I also like using Toxic Orb Ursaring, but that comes off as a lot more gimmicky and tends to put people off, despite the fact that it deals 70% to Genesect with Facade. It makes the move very Fire-and-Forget (unless they still have a ghost).
  4. Wizarus

    Wizarus

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Messages:
    233
    Why do people use 252 Modest on Porygon2 with just BoltBeam coverage and no STAB? It's not going to sweep, and to me it seems like wasting a perfectly good anchor for setting up TR.
  5. Stalltaria

    Stalltaria

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    16
    Trick room, huzzah!
    underrated TR Poke: Sturdy Claydol
    always gets a TR off and can proceed to stealth rock + is a spinner + has many eyeballs of all seeing power.
  6. superstar

    superstar

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    Okay, so I have actually had some measure of success with a full Trick Room team (peaked 1450 on PO Beta). It actually can be a very viable playstyle, and in my opinion was at its best in the 3 weeks or so of BW2 before Genesect's release. There are a few pros and cons to the playstyle that I have noticed:

    Pros:
    The metagame is incredibly offensive. HO teams are everywhere, and most of these teams rely on their speed to be effective. Everyone knows that TR is most effective against offense and worst against stall. Stall is almost non-existant in this meta, so a TR sweeper like Toxic Orb Conkeldurr can easily get 3 kills in the time before TR is gone.

    The Inducers are great themselves. Reuniclus, Bronzong, and Victini are all dangerous sweepers once TR is up, and they can set it up themselves. This allows you to force a disadvantagous matchup, and then switch to a sweeper once TR is up. For example, Reuniclus can set up Trick Room as a Sp Def Jirachi comes in, and then switch to Conkeldurr for the 2HKO with Hammer Arm.

    Cons:
    As I set it, there are a few main problems with Trick Room as a playstyle in BW2

    Deoxys-D is incredibly annoying for TR to face. Full Trick Room teams can rarely afford the spot for a spinner, and Deoxys-D has no problem setting up one or two layers of rocks. Dragonite hates SR, Conkeldurr loathes Spikes, and Victini hates both, so this is not a small problem.

    Genesect is a constant annoyance for TR teams. He can constantly U-turn on the mostly bug-weak setters and minimize their opportunities to set up TR. The Expert Belt set can also murder most of your inducers bar Porygon2 -- and Porygon2 never gets opportunites to Recover with all the constant U-turning.

    Free set-ups though, are the biggest problem for TR teams. By necessity, a sweeper has to switch back to an inducer once his turns of set-up are up. A skilled player will capitalize on this and get a free setup for his SD Lucario or Substitute Sheer Force Landorus. We all know that one turn of set-up can be deadly in this meta, and TR gives too many problems for opponents to set up.


    Despite this, however, TR remains an underrated playstyle, and as Bubbly said, a Reuniclus + Bronzong core has very good synergy and is excellent at cleaning.
  7. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte The Great Stone Dragon
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,943
    Cool, Trick Room.

    I have yet to see a successful, full fledged Trick Room team- and while that certainly doesn't mean it's ineffective, it does mean that it is a relatively unexplored strategy to play.
    The most common occurrence of Trick Room that I've seen would definitely be a side-strategy, because the pokemon that can use TR are relatively few and have pretty bad synergy. The pokemon that can use Trick Room are very powerful inside it, which is why teams often don't need more than one to do whatever it has to do. Having a 'backup' Trick Room is also a great idea that I've tried on defensive teams- which, because they tend to be slow, can really use the field effect to turn tables when needed. Reuniclus is probably the most common user of Trick Room; I've seen it slapped on everywhere for it.
    In terms of full TR, I think that is definitely a harder strategy to play. Most of these kinds of teams aren't exactly 'full'- using a few pokemon that don't actually use TR to clean up. The reason why it's so hard is probably because it lasts for only 5 turns and because the users have porr synergy together. Often, when faced with TR, an opponent will try to stall the turns out- since 5 isn't long, and there's no way to boost the time. TR also has problems synergy wise- most abusers are psychic/ghost type, and hit specially. There are physical users, but they fall to priority- which will be going first either way. Reuniclus being pretty staple on TR makes it in average weak to Pursuit based teams too.

    Still, TR does have a lot going for it. The 'surprise' factor is what makes Reuniclus so reknowly famous and dangerous. For pokemon whose Speed is the only stat holding them back, having a chance to overcome that can turn a team of sluggish setup baits into a fast, efficient work force.

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