Trick Room or Treat! (Peaked #12)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by ben gay, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. ben gay

    ben gay

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    14
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    What’s up smogon! Ben here and I am here to welcome you to my first RMT. This team features a rather overlooked strategy that can very much be effective in todays metagame, and that happens to be trick room. While it does seem gimmicky to more experienced players, it is very anti-meta and is devastating if used in the right hands. Although I did happen to get #1 on the ladder with this team, that was after the ladder reset, so I believe saying I peaked #12 before it is much more meaningful http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6s9oax&s=5. I did not ladder on an alt, rather on my original account so it was considerably more difficult to say the least. Salutations aside, I’ve been waiting to RMT this team for quite a long time, so let me introduce you to… Trick Room or Treat! (terribad title I know please bear with me ;_;

    Edit: A lot of people aren't a fan of the "peaked #12" so to get them off my dick, I'll just point out that i got #1 in ou current during lando-i suspect testing with a record of 55-4 and 1 tie with this team. A lot of great players were on atm so wouldn't mind at all having that score represent trick room's viability in ou. I BSed the rest of the matches in order to get reqs. So there now staph :I.

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    Smeargle @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Trick Room
    - Spore
    - Stealth Rock
    - Destiny Bond

    Although Smogon recommended the level 1 endeavor set for trick room teams, I found that particular set very lackluster. By using that set, Smeargle would get out sped by all of the major threats, get walled by ghosts and would usually end up as set-up fodder for a number of Pokémon such as SD Breloom and Substitute Gengar, so I created a sort of custom moveset for it. Trick Room allows me to turn the tables on my opponent in the speed department and sets up opportunities for my team to overpower the opposition. Spore is a free kill pretty much every game as it is able to put a pokemon out of commission for several turns, which is more than enough turns for me to set up. Stealth Rock on Smeargle may seem absurd at first glance as I do happen to have a Bronzong who can also serve perfectly well as a stealth rocker, but rocks are too important to pass up so early in the game, so it’s better off on a lead. Destiny Bond provides me with a safe switch-in after using Trick Room but more importantly, it allows me to take out pokemon that may pose a threat to my team. Unlike most leads, I try to save my Smeargle for later use as it proves to be invaluable death fodder.


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    Heatran @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Satk / 3 Spd
    - Eruption
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    It was all over when the fire nation attacked. Who cares about OHKO clause when you have this monstrosity? Being tailor-made for Trick Room, this Heatran is a force to be reckoned with. Long story short, if your Tyranitar, Latias, phat pink blob, or bulky water is dead, you are just royally fucked. Specs Eruption basically annihilates almost everything in OU given a sun or flash fire boost and at full HP. Fire Blast is the next best thing you can spam when its health is below 83% as it outdamages Eruption at that point. Earth Power and HP grass provides nice overall coverage together as well. If you don’t believe any of this nonsense I spout of, these here damage calcs illustrate otherwise.

    Show Hide
    1. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Infernape: 267-315 (91.12 - 107.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    2. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Haxorus: 270-318 (91.83 - 108.16%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    3. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 229-270 (87.73 - 103.44%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    4. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 357-420 (85 - 100%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    5. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 462-544 (108.96 - 128.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    6. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption vs. 128 HP / 128+ SpD Conkeldurr: 439-517 (114.62 - 134.98%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    7. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem: 441-519 (108.88 - 128.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    8. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo in sun: 330-389 (101.85 - 120.06%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    9. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion in sun: 330-389 (101.85 - 120.06%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    10. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon in sun: 330-389 (101.22 - 119.32%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    11. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp in sun: 386-454 (96.36 - 113.68%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    12. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite in sun: 301-355 (93.18 - 109.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    13. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios in sun: 277-327 (92.02 - 108.63%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    14. 252+ SpA Choice Specs Heatran Eruption vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Gyarados in sun: 300-353 (76.14 - 89.59%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock



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    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Trait: Download/Trace
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Satk / 6 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Tri Attack
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    P2 is one of the few viable Trick Room setters in OU, and for good reason. With Eviolite, P2 has exceptional bulk taking around 70% from a +1 Dragonite’s Outrage and can even live a Scarf Terrakion’s Close Combat after Stealth Rocks. P2’s ability to take random powerful hits is really appreciative on the team as I’m relying on being able to take a hit to set up. Not only this, but my particular set is more orientated to dish out damage. Either ability can be used, but I myself use Download as the difference in power is quite noticeable; but one cannot forget the defensive utility Trace can offer as it does save you in certain situations. Although they are both unreliable abilities at worst, I prefer download but trace is just as, if not even more viable.

    Tri Attack gives me a reliable STAB move and dents a lot of things. Thunderbolt hits the bulky waters for massive damage. HP fire is put on over recover or ice beam to destroy common switch-ins to p2 such as Scizor, Ferrothorn, Magnezone, etc… and eliminates hazard setters with ease. I did think about slashing Ice Beam in there over Tri Attack solely for subroost Dragonite variants as they do cause my team some trouble, but I prefer being able to hit things like Mamoswine and Rotom W harder. Things that are hit by Ice Beam are usually 2hkoed by Tri Attack anyway so it’s not that big of an issue. The speed IVs allow me to out speed Foretress outside of trick room to guarantee I am faster then it because some variants run gyro ball which out speeds me under trick room and can set up more hazards.


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    Bronzong @ Normal Gem
    Trait: Heatproof/Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Earthquake
    - Gyro Ball
    - Explosion

    I cannot even begin to imagine how many times Bronzong has carried the team on its back. It essentially is a great offensive/defensive pivot, reliable Trick Room setter, and counter/checks a lot of threats my team has trouble dealing with all in one (courtesy of its amazing typing, ability, and movepool). Either Heatproof or Levitate can be used, but I personally run Heatproof. This allows me to take on sun teams much easier without having to subject my Heatran to a Dugtrio the majority of the time, dragons with fire coverage, as well as opposing Heatran 1 on 1. But I am thinking of changing back to Levitate because a lot of players I played before know that I troll with Heatproof, so I can’t bluff it as well as I did in the past. Max attack to deal as much damage as possible and Earthquake and Gyro Ball have pretty good coverage together so wynaut. Explosion allows a safe switch into one of my abusers after I twisted the dimensions and despite the nerf, with a Normal Gem, Explosion is able to OHKO almost everything that doesn’t resist or is immune to. I tend to save it for a threat such as Volcarona, Reuniclus, Latias, etc…


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    Conkeldurr @ Life Orb
    Trait: Iron Fist
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Hammer Arm/Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - ThunderPunch
    - Ice Punch

    One of the most underrated threats in this meta, Conkeldurr enters the field ready to bash heads open. With the Trick Room support, it’s one of the best sweepers in the game, no joke. As you may have noticed I run a rather unorthodox set, which is Iron Fist life orb. I won’t go too much into detail about this as Lavos Spawn has recently posted a similar set which can be seen here http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4696768&postcount=179 (you should read this first if you have not already as it will make more sense later on). It is pretty much the same set, except I don’t mind the residual damage that life orb will chip away at me from using iron fist over sheer force because although this variant of Conkeldurr gets worn down rather quickly, the opposing side would have at least one or two pokemon fainted (three with careful prediction) before trick room wears off, which I find is an excellent bargain for 10% of its health. This is mainly because iron fist also boosts my fighting STABs in the form of Hammer Arm and Mach Punch which allows me to attain certain KOs and 2HKOs, which is the whole purpose of this team-similar to how standard hyper offense functions. Also, this team emphasizes safe switches, and since a Guts Conkeldurr with a status orb would not get its power boost until the end of the turn, I will not have the power boost I need in order to OHKO or 2HKO the opposing team, thus wasting another turn of trick room and possibly taking unnecessary damage as well.

    The moveset should be self-explanatory. Hammer Arm over Drain Punch is the same reason why people run Hydro Pump over Surf on things like Keldeo, but missing a crucial Hammer Arm does cost me the game a number of times, as Conkeldurr is my main attacker. Drain Punch is a nice alternative as the latter is Iron Fist boosted as well and has a nice secondary effect in recovery, but I personally run Hammer Arm. Mach Punch for much needed priority, Thunderpunch to hit those bulky waters and Ice Punch to hit them dragons and whatnot. It should be stated that Hammer Arm is exactly twice as strong as thunder and ice punch, so it can ease a bit of prediction when choosing which move to go for in case the opponent decides to switch out or not. Conkeldurr is usually my primary win condition so I try to keep it as healthy as possible. Rather than just ramble on how destructive trick room Conkeldurr is in this current metagame, these here damage calcs should explain it better.

    Show Hide
    1. 252+Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252 Def+ Donphan: 48% - 57% (186 - 222 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
    2. 252+Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr (+Atk) Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 95% - 112% (308 - 364 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 78% chance to OHKO.
    3. 252+Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr (+Atk) Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Ferrothorn: 100% - 119% (354 - 420 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    4. 252+Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr (+Atk) Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Leftovers Sturdy Forretress: 47% - 56% (169 - 199 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
    5. 252+Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr (+Atk) Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 84+ Def Gastrodon: 76% - 90% (328 - 387 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    6. 252+Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr (+Atk) Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 85% - 100% (223 - 263 HP). 81% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    7. 252+Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr (+Atk) Ice Punch vs. 252HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 103% - 123% (368 - 436 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
    8. 252+Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr (+Atk) ThunderPunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 65% - 78% (266 - 316 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    9. 252+Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr (+Atk) Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor (Neutral): 85% - 101% (295 - 348 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 81% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.
    10. 252+Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr (+Atk) ThunderPunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory (+Def): 50% - 59% (168 - 200 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
    11. 252+Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr (+Atk) Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom W: 91% - 107% (277 - 328 HP). Guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock.
    12. 252+Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr (+Atk) Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 111% - 131% (782 – 924 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.



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    Cresselia (F) @ Heat Rock
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Lunar Dance
    - Sunny Day
    - Psychic

    Pure utility and an all around great support pokemon. Cresselia is one of the best bulky Trick Room setters out there. Apart from its amazing bulk, the one move that separates Cresselia from any other Trick Room setters is Lunar Dance. After using Trick Room and with the team on its last legs, Cresselia can utilize a very fast Lunar Dance to bring a powerful sweeper back to life, with 3 turns of TR to spare. The usefulness of this move cannot be overemphasized since with Lunar Dance, I pretty much have one extra member over the opponent and can help a powerful sweeper get back from certain death, as I have no form of recovery on the team whatsoever. As a bonus, it gets the pokemon into the field safely and even acts before hazards.

    In such a rain filled metagame and no water resists on the team, it is imperative to have a way to deal with such weather as well. Sunny Day easily patches up this problem as not only does it allow me to completely screw over rain as a whole, but this move is the only reason I can utilize Heatran to its fullest potential, since I can’t spam Eruption otherwise. Heat Rock is the item of choice in order to prolong Sunny Day turns and Psychic so I have a way to check threats such as breloom, conkeldurr, toxcroak, and gengar.

    Threats:

    Show Hide
    Offensive

    Sashzam: This is just annoying due to its sash. If I am able to break it without suffering to much while doing so, then I can easily dispose of it later on.

    Techniloom: Lum and sash variants with Swords Dance get to my team the most. I can keep it at bay with Smeargle with destiny bond if they decide to bullet seed, but if my sash is broken after I put something to sleep; I immediately go for destiny bond in case it decides to switch in to mach punch me so I can pressure them to put me to sleep. After that I can set up rocks as I out speed and switch into Cresselia to threaten it with a Psychic. However, if it happens to get 4 or 5 hits with Bullet Seed at +2, it can OHKO my Cresselia and deal massive damage to the rest of my team. I can also go for trick room depending on the situation, but that means I have to worry about choosing potential sleep fodder later on in the match. If the opponent is smart enough to save their loom later in the match as they know it’s a threat to my team, it would be in my best interest to keep trick room up as long as possible so I won’t be vulnerable to it setting up all over in my face with Spore after the dimensions wear off. A well played Breloom can potentially sweep my team so I have to be wary of it.

    Haxorus: Either Taunt or Dual Chop destroys my lead and combined with Swords Dance can just do substantial damage to my team. Lucky for me barely anyone uses it.

    Specstoed: Since the team is weather less, people usually lead off with toed to bring up the rain asap. The only threatening set is the specs set, as it does ~75% to cress and p2 with hydro pump and kos everything else. This isn’t really a problem actually as I almost always can pull off a destiny bond on it and set up Sunny Day after. If it is scarfed or defensive, its much less threatening in which p2 can handle. Even if it scald burns me and breaks my sash, I know that it is a defensive set so I don’t have to worry too much. I don’t tend to spore a Politoed as I’d rather much have it dead then asleep. It is however a bit troublesome if it is not dead later in the game as I can’t win the weather war otherwise.

    Leadterrak: This just basically screws over my lead with Taunt. I can predict around it at team preview and lead off with my Bronzong but if not, I have an early disadvantage in the battle.

    Volcarona: If I don’t have rocks on the field it could pose a threat, especially if it has hp ground. Luckily I have a heatproof Bronzong in which I can explode with. Just got to make sure it doesn’t grab too much Quiver Dances.

    Substitute

    SubRoostDragonite: Got to make sure rocks are on the field to break its scale and can really only revenge kill it with Smeargle or Conkeldurr, Bronzong can explode on it if I’m lucky though.

    SubGengar: Luckily this thing is really frail; otherwise it would be even more troublesome to take out. It’s able to stall out my Trick Room turns with sub and basically hit hard.

    SubToxicGliscor: People usually lead off against my Smeargle with this to protect or set up a sub to prevent Spore. Unfortunately for them, I have destiny bond to deal with it. Levitate Bronzong or Trace P2 are also reliable counters to it, but I don’t run them :[ . If it has Taunt then it can’t pull toxic stalling shenanigans on me so that’s good.

    Torment/SubToxic/Balloontran: Lucky for me that I have never seen this yet, but I would have to sacrifice my P2 to it in order to weaken it so I can revenge kill it after with anything else. Just got to wear this down as it does not have reliable recovery, but it does put a dent into my team. Heatran on a balloon is just pretty annoying as Bronzong and Heatran can’t eliminate it as efficiently.

    SubRoostKyurem: This thing can pressure stall my Bronzong out of Gyro Ball’s, eliminate Heatran with Earth Power and deal massive amounts of damage to everything on my team. Just got to make sure it is not behind a sub.

    SubCMLatias: If Bronzong is gone, I cannot fully counter this threat as only Conkeldurr and Smeargle can revenge kill it. Just can’t let this be behind a sub at all times.

    Miscellaneous

    Donphan: This is not necessarily a threat, more so a nuisance, as the fact that it can guarantee a spin is pretty annoying. This also has to be removed before Heatran can sweep as it out speeds me under Trick Room but I can deal with it the majority of the time.

    Espeon: If I see in team preview, I normally lead off with Bronzong rather than Smeargle so I can Gyro Ball it, but if it manages to get up both screens, it would be a real pain as I would have to stall them out rather than attack head on as I would not be able to do nearly enough damage to my opponent as they would dish out much more on me.

    Gothitelle: Trick is pretty annoying, and it also means I can’t pull off a Conkeldurr sweep as early as I would like to.

    Hippowdon: Either the physically or specially defensive variants are troublesome as on one side Heatran can’t OHKO it if it is and Conkeldurr can’t 2hko it after lefties. Just got to figure out what kind it is and deal with it appropriately as it hinders their sweeps otherwise.

    TR/CMReuniclus: Both the Trick Room as well as Calm Mind set are massive problems to this team. My best hope is to erupt on it with Heatran or explode on it with Bronzong as soon as possible.

    Wobbuffet: This hinders a Conkeldurr sweep and I usually have to sacrifice one of my pokemon in order to bring this threat down.


    Conclusion
    Despite the great success I had with this team, the team itself is far from perfect. It has trouble with some variants of stall, is very prediction-based and requires an adequate amount of experience to utilize. To be completely honest, I think it was the surprise factor that got me this far lol. All in all I found this team to be extremely fun to play with and am open to any changes that can be made. Also shoutouts to a few awesome people who i have come to know when playing with this team: iron manatee, miner0, lexie, qseasons, sugartheoutlaw, tng24, starline, da real osiris, goddess briyella, glassglaceon, pancakehat, piiiikachuuu, twelfth, fruitspunchsamurai, water tribe, foopossum, and chayse young. So with that guys I’m out of here, toodles! Luvdisc if u want.

    Use it at your own risk >_>
    Show Hide
    Smeargle @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Trick Room
    - Spore
    - Stealth Rock
    - Destiny Bond

    Heatran (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 3 Spd
    - Eruption
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 6 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Tri Attack
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Bronzong @ Normal Gem
    Trait: Heatproof
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Earthquake
    - Gyro Ball
    - Explosion

    Conkeldurr (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Iron Fist
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Hammer Arm
    - Mach Punch
    - ThunderPunch
    - Ice Punch

    Cresselia (F) @ Heat Rock
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Lunar Dance
    - Sunny Day
    - Psychic


    Replays because this team looks pretty complicated to use so would help i think:
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-17944105 rain offense with kidogo
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-20035019 rain offense #2
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-18501345 volturn dragmag shenanigans
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-21416210 rain stall
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-21470691 sand stall
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-17410623 sand stall #2
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-19479501 sun stall
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou-20000298 fun match against shofu :D sand offense
    scotti, oSeasons and lacerta like this.
  2. thenewguy24

    thenewguy24

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    28
    TR

    First team to truly showcase trick room at its finest. This is/should be the flagbearer/standard setter for all tr teams as it is the only team I have seen have constant success on the ladder. Seeing as a large portion of the top of the ladder tend to run more stall oriented teams, this teams success at the top is a testament to its effectiveness against all types of teams. TR is TR (aka one of the hardest strategies to employ), as there are so few turns to abuse it, however this team is built in such a way where you are faced with surprises and death at every turns end. D-bond smeargle takes out weather starters with ease as few see the dbond coming after the tr, spore. Conk just shits on everything and even though LO+residual damage (rocks,sand) can wear him down, lunar dance cress is there to bring him right back. Exploding zong nabs kills on the unsuspecting and P2 is just a tank that wont die while dishing out damage. This team is too sick and extremely fun to play with. Nearly all games will end in under 20 turns and with smart prediction, victory can almost be yours.

    PS thanks for the shoutout :). Great team.


    EDIT: took you fucking long enough to post this holy shit
  3. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal Intelligence is a curse.
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,266
    I used a similar team before. I'd try Magma Storm Heatran to trap weather inducers and Double Dance LandoT for lategaming over Zong (you check dragons enufff) Moonlight over Lunar Dance on Cress and try Psyshock over Psychic. Fire punch over Mach on Conk smacks Ferro / Zong / Zor / Rachi imo. Ice Beam over Tri Attack.

    On iPod so can't fully rate. Try my suggestions; they improve this a lot. Love this team otherwise.
  4. Sciztar

    Sciztar

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    Nice Trick Room team you got here Ben gay, Congrats on your peak.

    The only thing I have to suggest is your Porygon2. The first thing that stands out is the IVs, they are a little weird. You only need 2 IVs in speed for Hidden Power Fire. Onto your moveset I recommend changing out Tri-Attack, because Ice Beam hits more type than Tri-Attack. Ice Beam allows you to hit Landorus-T, Dragonite, Garchomp, and Breloom.

    Here is the set I recommend:

    [​IMG]
    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 2 Spd
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Trick Room
  5. Hydro Pimp

    Hydro Pimp

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2012
    Messages:
    34
    Yes, you finally made it!

    This is definitely one of my favourite OU teams. So many of the sets are original, and there's so much thought put into it. I like the surprise value of things like Normal Gem Bronzong, Destiny Bond Smeargle and Sunny Day Cresselia as well.

    Haha as far as the threat list goes, I think the biggest threat is an opponent you've already played, particularly one with a rain team. Then they know to finish Smeargle with Toxic instead of Scald to bypass Destiny Bond, and they know not to sac Politoed until Cresselia is gone.

    Another threat (also a rain Pokemon, but I guess I'm just rating from experience) is Swords Dance Toxicroak. As long as Trick Room isn't up, or is about to go away, it sets up on Conkeldurr, and can OHKO a lot of the team after a bit of prior damage. Cresselia can play Sucker Punch mindgames with it, and set up Sunny Day to hurt it, but lategame, if Cresselia has used Lunar Dance already, it can be trouble. It can definitely be played around, though, if Cresselia and/or Smeargle stick around.

    Anyway, thanks for the shoutout, and I enjoyed the Avatar reference in Heatran's entry. Thread = Luvdisced. I'll have to take the team out for a spin sometime soon. Also, respect for calling the peak #12 and not #1. That's definitely a lot more meaningful, since the quality of the ladder went down a lot after the reset.

    Edit: Shurtugal, I don't think most the changes you suggested really fit well with the team. Replacing Bronzong with Lando-T takes out a trick-room setter, and a a valuable one-time method for dealing with a threat that would otherwise bother the team. And Lunar Dance on Cresselia is one of the most vital moveslots on the team, as it gives Conkeldurr (or whatever needs it) a second life and gets it in after Trick Room. And Fire Punch on Conkeldurr doesn't really hit anything harder than Hammer Arm does, except Scizor and Forretress I guess, which it hits really hard anyway. All the threats you mentioned take the exact same amount of damage from the two moves.
  6. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    Messages:
    1,195
    Finally RMT'd this team! Will give it a good rate later :]

    Okay so, I'm not really on how to rate this, since I've never used Trick Room before, and I haven't faced that many good Trick Room teams. This is by far the first excellent Trick Room team that I have seen.

    Anyway, I will try my best to rate this team. I'm thinking that you could maybe
    Reuniclus over Porygon2. I'm guessing you've already tested Reuniclus, and I can see the redundancy since you already have Cresselia, but Reuniclus is offering a lot more power, while still being able to set up Trick Room and offer some bulk (much like Porygon2).

    I'm also thinking about running Choice Scarf
    Jirachi over Cresselia. Now don't get me wrong here, I understand how important Lunar Dance is, which is why I suggest you test Choice Scarf Jirachi with Healing Wish. I understand that you will lose out on Sunny Day, but I believe Jirachi's typing, momentum gained via U-turn, and sweeping abilities (once Trick Room has worn off).

    Again, I'm not sure these suggestions will make your team better, as you know much more about this team than I do, but it wouldn't hurt testing if you feel some of my suggestions may help. Congrats on the team, and congrats on the peak.
    Luvdisc'd
  7. Rosez66

    Rosez66

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Messages:
    43
    Just a small rate at the moment as I'm busy but I would suggest replacing your smeargle for sableye, this way you have priority on destiny bond , and with being level one that is a 100% kill on anything without a multi hit move or spore.
  8. rkatzam

    rkatzam

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2007
    Messages:
    418
    hey man! (fu_jirachi here, i've battled you a couple of times with a defensive cm latias team)

    I still think Drain Punch is better over Hammer Arm, simply for the fact it allows you to heal damage. Conk is already not easy to take down without boosted (or super effective) attacks, and Drain Punch takes advantage of that. Plus the accuracy.

    Have you tried life orb on Bronzong? seems like a good candidate for it over normal gem.

    +luvdisc.
  9. ben gay

    ben gay

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    14
    Holy Shit i came back after a good nights sleep and so much people rated it :O. ill answer all of you guys individually i guess.

    tng24
    Show Hide
    haha yeah was to lazy to finish it is all but thanks for the rate buddy :]


    Shurugal
    Show Hide
    Although most of your suggestions are understandable they are not necessarily how this team functions per se. Heatran's role is more as a wallbreaker and late game sweeper for this team, not necessarily a trapper. Also this team is purely trick room so lando-t is out of the question. Moonlight is not necessary on Cress since longevity is not really an issue for it, it just has to deliver good results-which the set i run employs. Psyshock over Psychic is a tricky one but most of the things i want to hit are weaker on the sp def side such as breloom and conkeldurr and psychic also breaks garchomp's and gliscor's substitute, just to name a few. Also you stated fire punch over mach punch, but hammer arm KOs scizor after rocks, 2HKOs foretress, OHKOs ferrothorn, and does the same amount of damage to rachi with hammer arm(as hammer arm is twice as powerful as fire punch). Also i have been testing ice beam over tri attack as it hits certain pokes harder, but as i said i like hitting things like volcarona, kyurem, rotom, and mamoswine harder and dragons and landorus arent really a threat on my team(tri attack 2hkos them anyway). Thanks for the rate anywho :/


    Sciztar
    Show Hide
    Thanks for the rate friend :D. The speed IVs are designed to outspeed foretress outside of trick room to GUARANTEE i am faster then it since some run gyro ball and some don't, meaning i don't know if it is faster than me or not in which it can set up more hazards in my face(sorry I'm just a perfectionist like that :p) Also a lot of people recommended ice beam over tri attack, so I am currently testing it right now and hope it proves worthwhile :].

    Edit: Came back after testing ice beam and although it helped in most scenarios, tri attack wasn't there when i really needed it. I questioned to myself, what does tri attack hit that that ice beam doesn't? A variety of things that i stated before. But what does ice beam hit that tri attack doesn't? Nothing as tri attack does good enough damage and P2's role is not necessarily as a sweeper, more so as a weakener and kos things if its within it's ability to. Besides the set has unresisted coverage in the tier and its not like people use Rhyperior in OU if you know what i mean.


    Hydro Pimp
    Show Hide
    Well like i said it was the suprise factor that got me so far and you already knew i had destiny bond so YOU WOULD toxic after breaking my sash -_- lol. Defensive Politoed with toxic is not a threat to this team as i can force it out with P2 or do enough damage to it in which conk KOs and I can play around Protect. Also your right about how playing a person I've played before can prove much more difficult as they know my sets, but I just have to outpredict them is all. Toxicroak may prove a threat if Cresselia is gone but I have yet to see a toxicroak running max speed with a +speed nature so smeargle with destiny bond can save me in a clutch if that happens, but I'll make sure to keep cress around for that matter. Also Conk 2hkos Toxicroak after dry skin and lefties if you didnt know so its not necessarily set-up fodder if you know what I mean. Anyway thanks for the rate, much appreciated :].


    ShootinStarmie
    Show Hide
    Yeah i finally RMTd it, was just to lazy to do so :S. Anyway you reccomended Reuniclus and suprisingly i have never tested it before on this team. I just wanted to make a trick room team without it-akin to how sun teams rely on dugtrio all the time. But yeah if its going to help my team for the better ill test it(just dont like relying on focus miss ;_; Also you recommended scarfrachi over cress on this team but it also shares the same type as bronzong which i find rather redundant. Also what is the point of healing wish scarf rachi if i cant set up trick room as well? Say if i just healing wish into conk, its a sitting duck without the trick room support. So yeah thats the reason for that, but thank for the rate friend :p.

    Edit: Scratch that what i said about Reuniclus, P2 is the "glue"of the team, not necessarily the focal point or sweeper. It's just there to help support the team, not necessarily take on the role of what Reuniclus should. Sorry just forgot about that.


    Rosez66
    Show Hide
    umm.... iirc sableye doesn't get destiny bond, or trick room for that matter, but thanks for the concern ;~;.


    rkatzam
    Show Hide
    Oh hey whatsup and thanks for the rate :D! A lot of people reccomended drain punch>hammer arm, but when you play with this team alot, you find the damage output pretty disappointing, missing out on certain kos and 2hkos, thus wasting more trick room turns. I already have recovery with cresselia anyway so it isn't to big a deal, but drain punch does help against more stall orientated teams as well so thats why i slashed it in :I. LO zong i did try actually and it really cuts down on bronzong's longevity. It KOs or 2HKOs what it needs to already and isnt designed to take on ferrothorn if you nom saiyan.
  10. Zorlond

    Zorlond

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    I actually used to use a similar team, though I didn't have heatran. And I've never thought of using smeargle or pory-2, or using cresselia for sunny day, if i had a fire pokemon (at one point i added victini on the team) I'd just throw in a ninetales.
  11. Twelfth

    Twelfth

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    This team is an absolute terror, if you've come to this thread to trash-talk TR I seriously suggest you wait until you've seen this in action. Hitting this team on the ladder (while running my own TR team) seriously changed how well I play pokemon (thanks in no small part to Ben's excellent tutelage). I don't have much to offer in the way of serious advice on improving the team, although I would like to see how my cofa lead set performs (it's better vs. breloom/taunters!). To speak on the drain punch vs. hammer arm topic, I run drain punch on a near-identical conk and while I don't find the damage "disappointing", Ben runs healing wish, which is so brutal with a hammer-arming iron fisted LO conk that I cannot recommend sacrificing any power for recovery (As an example: 252+ Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Conkeldurr Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 296-348 (86.29 - 101.45%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock).

    Anyways, I may be biased in favor of this team, but I have seen it take down so many excellently built and played teams that I just have to rave about it.

    A+, 10/10, would recommend to a friend.

    PS Ben should I still even bother posting my team at some point now that it's so overshadowed? ;___;

    PPS Thanks for the shout-out!
  12. Icicle Fissh

    Icicle Fissh

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    93
    yay! I remember you crushing me in the finals of a Starline tour on PS!, and I was in awe at how well the team functioned. I find Trick Room to often be quite clunky, having to set it up, switch in a sweeper safely, switch out again ect, but this team minimizes this very nicely. I have no rate, I was just popping by to say grats on the peak and for making this really original team into an RMT. Luvdisc'd!
  13. UBERPYRO

    UBERPYRO

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    Its actually better to have as much balance between HP and your defences as possible, and because the eviolite is % based, keep the ev's in HP.

    252+ Atk Life Orb Scizor Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 273-322 (72.99 - 86.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252+ Atk Life Orb Scizor Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 213-252 (68.26 - 80.76%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    See the difference? Putting it in defense is worse, so keep the HP EVs in HP like you have it.
  14. george182

    george182

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2009
    Messages:
    456
    Minor nitpick:
    At 83% eruption has 124 base power, so it's still more powerful (150 * 0.83 = 124.5 and you always round down). Fire blast only out-damages when it's hp is below 80%.

    But this still doesn't make it the better move as eruption still has 100% accuracy. On average, fireblast will do 102 damage per turn (120 * 85/100 = 102). So I'd argue eruption was the better move until you're below 68% health. (150 * 0.68 = 102).

    Hope I helped.
  15. oSeasons

    oSeasons
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2012
    Messages:
    114
    Good team Benjamin! A minor complaint that I have towards your team is that porygon2 lacks any means of recovery. Since porygon2 serves as a tank ( as you've told me) for the team, not having any viable means of recovery may greatly hinder its useful life and performance. You already have three other pokemon capable of setting up trick room so I suggest you swap trick room for recovery in order to increase porygon's sustainability.

    Although tri-attack provides a strong STAB move for porygon2, ice beam is also a viable move that you should take into consideration. Ice beam deals super effective damage to common OU threats such as landorus-i and garchomp which may potentially be nuisances to your team.

    P.S shoutout to my boy miner0
  16. dinodino56

    dinodino56

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    113
    Ok you wanted a real rate i am going to give you one. First the biggest weakness to your team seems to be Stall Teams and Bulky Offense. As most pokemon on those two teams are mostly slow. Another thing that can be bother some are Fighting types as you have 3 weaknesses and only one resist. What i think you should do is change Bronzong to a more defensive set that looks like this.

    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 168 Def / 88 SDef / 252 HP
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Trick Room
    - Gyro Ball / Earthquake
    - Toxic

    With this you can wear down Stall team with Stealth Rock and Toxic and you can still setup Trick Room. I also made it Defensive because most fighting type attack are Physical.

    Hope i Helped =)
  17. ben gay

    ben gay

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    14
    george182
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    haha minor miscalculation on my part, thanks for the clarity :].


    oSeasons
    Show Hide
    Think of P2 like offensive starmie. I can only have so much moves and I would prefer coverage over recovery. P2 is a pivot, not a tank (get your facts straight) and you said to take off trick room off p2, but if i did there would be better pokes to replace it as trick room is kind of a niche move it possesses. Yeah I'm still thinking about ice beam so leave me alone stalker frand. >:I


    dinodino56
    Show Hide
    Yeah I usually just try to overpower stall orientated teams as they can't really hurt me directly, rather rely on residual damage to take its toll. I think the set my bronzong has atm is good enough, but maybe ill try toxic as I think it will prove useful in certain situations. Also think of trick room as a reverse hyper offense. I usually OHKO or 2HKO their entire team and dont take much hits often, rather dish out damage. Thanks for the rate friend. :D
  18. Natsu Slayer

    Natsu Slayer

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2012
    Messages:
    37
    I think Spikes is a better option than Trick Room on Smeargle. Imo Smeargle does nothing on your team. I would use another SR user.

    I don't think you need more than 3 trick room users.
  19. ben gay

    ben gay

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    14

    Although Spikes would be nice, this team really only needs Stealth Rocks to secure its kills, so it really isn't all that necessary. Also, if i were hazard dependent, I'd require a spinblocker, but then I would have to change the team to accommodate that arrangement, which I don't find necessary. Smeargle is a universal lead i can rely on most of the time and gets its job done by putting a threat to sleep, reliably setting up SR, and can potentially take something down with it, but either than that, it proves very useful death fodder. If you have a suggestion better than Smeargle, I'm all ears. Also, why can't I have more than 3 trick roomers, the more the merrier right? But really I find it necessary because this team is full on trick room, meaning I have to maintain the offensive pressure that trick room brings to the table the majority of the time.

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