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Trick Room UU

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Lawrence III, Dec 13, 2013.

  1. Lawrence III

    Lawrence III
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2012
    Messages:
    65
    Hi there, I love using trick room and building around it, it does take a lot to make it work, but I'd would love some feedback on this team, I've been using it for a long while and have done fairly well with it for the most part.

    The Team: My goal for this team was to get some hard hitting setters and abusers that can help each other out in terms of taking each other's faults and making them strengths, also I wanted to make sure I got some nice abusers that could hit super hard without the need to set up wasting a turn of my precious Trick Room.
    [​IMG]

    Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
    Ability: Mummy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 2 Spd
    - Nasty Plot
    - Shadow Ball
    - Trick Room
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]

    Here's Cofagrigus, one of the three setters I wanted for the Trick Room team. I went with an offensive set just because I know I have a limited amount of time while trick room is up. With only four turns given to abuse trick room, switching into an abuser sometimes isn't the right choice. With this set I can set up and wreck shop doing significant damage with just one Nasty Plot. Cofagrigus also provides checks to some of the big threats in UU namely, Heracross and Mienshao occasionally. This baby also shuts down Ambipom users. The reason I picked him up was because he has a good kit to abuse trick room and fits well with Rhyperior and Snorlax taking on their fighting weaknesses.

    [​IMG]

    Exeggutor @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Harvest
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Leaf Storm
    - Power Swap
    - Trick Room
    - Psychic

    Exeggutor is another setter for me, the set may appear really gimmicky, and it might be. However, it has been the MVP of many of my matches. Setting up with trick room, and Leaf Storming anything neutral gets hit hard and SE attacks usually result in a KO. I like using Exeggutor because of the presence of bulky waters in UU namely Blastoise, Milotic, and Suicune he takes Scalds exceptionally well and even with burns, it doesn't affect the hitting power of my arsenal. With Power Swap, I can just pass off my de-boosts to the opponent and fire again, I can also trade boosts with NP Togekiss, CM Cune and Raikou. Sitrus berry is there for some recovery and potential to harvest and sustain my HP. Initially, I wanted to use Slowbro because of his fantastic kit to use Trick Room, but he did not provide me the immediate power that Exeggutor could in STAB Leaf Storm and Psychic. Exeggutor isn't nearly as bulky as Slowbro, not even in the same category in terms of bulk, but it can take out the beefy threats that I need it to.

    [​IMG]

    Bronzong @ Macho Brace
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Gyro Ball
    - Trick Room
    - Stealth Rock
    - Zen Headbutt

    I usually lead with Bronzong due to the fact that he has a large number or resistances and usually can safely toss up a trick room and set rocks for me. This set also gives me a chance to de-cleat scarfed users with a hard hitting Gyro Ball. Zen headbutt is just mainly for another stab, but I've been thinking about just getting EQ/Rock Slide as coverage, though it doesn't hit as hard as I would like it to. He can block Toxic which is common on UU teams from what I've played against, mainly Sableye. Was not sure if I wanted to switch to a mixed set with HP Ice or something along those lines, but I'm pretty certain it does very little even to Gligar.


    [​IMG]

    Rhyperior @ Leftovers
    Ability: Solid Rock
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast
    - Megahorn
    - Ice Punch

    Since this big boy sports a 140 base attack, I couldn't pass him up. He's got a reasonable move pool and hits like a freaking truck. I chose Rock Blast over Stone Edge for the accuracy and for plenty of sub users. Ice punch is for Gligar which can be really annoying since it doesn't KO it. Megahorn can hit psychics hard like Azelf, Mew, Meloetta, and Claydol( not that I see him too often) hard. For the most part, Rhyperior acts as my tank soaking up damage that I'm scared of. It takes Flare Blitz from Arcanine and Darmanitan like a champ. I considered Marowak and used it when I was making the team, but she didn't take hits as well as Rhyperior. I needed something with lots of beef without having to invest in defense and Rhyperior fit the bill entirely. Takes some of the slack off of Snorlax back.


    [​IMG]

    Snorlax @ Choice Band
    Ability: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    - Return
    - Pursuit
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Punch

    Since Chandelure poops on most of my team CB Snorlax can usually pick him off. That's not his only purpose here, he's got some sweep potential with a really solid STAB Return. Let's not forget that he boasts a hefty 110 base attack! The other moves are for coverage, pursuit of course for trapping the dumb lantern. Thick fat allows me to switch him in from Bronzong and Exeggutor like Heat waving Zapdos, and Ice Beams from whatever. Most of my offensive output relies on setting trick room and switching to either Snorlax or Rhyperior and then begin wailing on the opponent. I often choose to pick Snorlax because Return offers very good coverage in terms of hitting almost anything, while Rhyperior's EQ/Rock Blast combo has to often alternate with teams with Levitate/flying mons.

    [​IMG]

    Honchkrow @ Life Orb
    Ability: Insomnia
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Brave Bird
    - Superpower

    Honchkrow benefits me with hard hitting capabilities without the use of Trick Room. I am aware that it only has a base speed of 71, but it can outspeed plenty of things that I need it to such as Registeel, Snorlax, Umbreon, and P2 and pound them with Superpower. The purpose of Insomnia is to get sleep inducers like Roserade and occasionally Venomoth off my case with Sleep Powder and KO it in return with BB. She also can stop Spore users like Smeargle and Amoonguss in their tracks. The biggest and main reason for the Honchkrow choice was for Sleep Powder Roserade which completely puts my offense at a halt. I didn't want that to happen so Honchkrow piqued my interests. She doesn't really last on the battlefield due to the LO/BB recoil, but I don't need her to as long as those threats are gone.(Umbreon, P2, and Lax mainly).

    Threats:

    Trick room teams have all sorts of problems, one of them being tanked out by stall teams and super beefy Pokemon. Umbreon can outright stall me to shreds if Honchkrow is out of the line up. In addition, Status cripples my team hard, outside of some good predictions for Toxic and Sleep Powder, I'm very vulnerable. Sableye's that use Will-o-Wisp definitely cripple my chance of winning. I also have a hard time dealing with Gligar even with Ice Punch on Rhyperior. I also know that I lack recovery in my TR setters outside of Harvest Exeggutor and have a very clear weakness to Dark attacks in that department. Late game play usually does not pan out too well because at that point, the opponent can predict what I can do, when I can set and defecate on me. Taunt users also may pose a problems at times, though I can remove Froslass quite easily. In addition, sub split variants of Chandelure are becoming more prevalent than that of the Scarfed or Specs ones. Pursuit still removes the sub, but being locked in pursuit isn't too fun.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2013
    Sweep likes this.
  2. Mysterious Mirror

    Mysterious Mirror

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    I think this looks like an awesome team that I have a few suggestions about. First of all, after your lax or zong is down, ice completely wrecks your team. I might suggest putting some special defence EV's on Cofagrigus to take ice beams better, considering he has enough natural physical bulk to eat a bazooka. Also, the macho brace on Bronzong seems completely unnecessary. 31 EV Dusclops is at 86 speed, and 0 EV Zong is at 71. I would replace it with leftys or maybe lum berry to absorb status. Finaly, I would dump pursuit in favor of night slash considering you already have a pursuit user in Snorlax and that it might be nice to have a dark STAB move that doesn't hugely bank on prediction. I hope this rate helps your team improve.
  3. Qualna

    Qualna

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    109
    Snorlax and Rhyperior do not have 0 Spe IVs, drop it to 0 to avoid obscure threats or something…

    I think Earthquake would be better than Zen Headbutt, it's coverage is really good.


    Power Trick Leaf Storm isn't that good because you're wasting Trick Room turns, just use another coverage move like HP Fire.

    Power Trick --> Hidden Power [Fire]

    Don't forget to give Exeggutor 2 Spe IVs for maximum power HP Fire.

    I can see your team is hard countered by Cresselia(you only have Snorlax), not even Honchkrow can save you from that. You said you have huge problems with Dark-type Pokémons, Heracross over Honchkrow can fix it both. It can also absorb sleep once its status orb has been activated.

    [​IMG]
    Heracross @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Swords Dance / Sleep Talk / Earthquake / Protect

    First three moves are obligatory STAB and coverage moves while the last one is really, really, just a filler use whatever you want. Some other moves you can consider there is Facade, Aerial Ace and even Bulk Up, you're not gonna use it much anyway.

    Since Heracross not that slow, you can opt for 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def with an Adamant Nature.

    Rhyperior is strong but it doesn't really do a lot for the team, you can use Suicune instead, it can tank hits left and right and is reliable win condition(as your team lacks one).

    [​IMG]
    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Scald

    Suicune is a very good fit for the team, most of its checks and counters is easily handled by Snorlax and Heracross. I'm not really sure what Suicune set would be the best fit, anyway, if you don't like losing momentum, you can use:

    Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Hidden Power [Electric] / Calm Mind
    With the spread 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe and Timid Nature.
  4. Patrick1088

    Patrick1088

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    807
    Cool Team! I have a few nitpicks though...
    1. Change Cofagrigus' IVs to 11 Attack/ 30 Def/ 30 Sp Def/ 30 Sp Attack/ 2 Speed to get 70 BP on Hidden Power. Change the EVS to 248 HP/ 252 Sp Attack/ 8 Def.
    2. I've recently been trying Harvest Phantump in Gen 6 LC and while it is frustrating to play, it's unreliable. I would recommend another poke altogether instead of Exeguttor. While it may seem ludicrous, you can try Trick Room + V-Create Victini. While Victini is fast with base 100 speed, V-Create can alleviate this by lowering the speed, essentially making it faster every turn. It has the ability to go mixed with TR/V-Create/Grass Knot/Zen Headbutt.
    3. Your team only has 5 TR turns and once somebody sees this, they are going to be taunting you like crazy. So, watch out for Bronzong and any bulky taunters. You could try a Trick + Choice Band/Lagging Tail on Zong.
    4. I have to come back and look at Rhyperior and Snorlax EVs when I have more time. Their stats are so focuses one side of the spectrum, that you need to invest in a different stat to balance it out better.
    5. MoxieKrow is very good. I recommend switching Jolly to Adamant (since you have priority in Sucker Punch) and all of the key threats you are either faster than or are slower at base 70. I would recommend dropping Pursuit for Roost for longevity purposes.

    Don't listen to that guy with Guts Hera. Rhyperior is able to beat Gligar with Ice Punch which is something that Hera can never do.

    I'll follow up more later on tonight!
  5. Qualna

    Qualna

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    109
    Unfortunately, Cresselia AND Sableye will wall most of the team.

    Only (boosted) Cofagrigus can break through Cresselia and only (boosted) Cofagrigus and Exeggutor can also kill Sableye but even 100%.

    Too bad, you won't like switching in those two to Sableye and Toxic Cresselia.

    And how does Rhyperior help against Dark types? Which is IMO the biggest threat to this team, so basically:

    Gligar > All the Dark types

    Seems legit.

    Hey, I also suggested Suicine which can obviously...
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
  6. Patrick1088

    Patrick1088

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    807
    Cresseila had 2.3% usage in November. You might as well over prepare for Registeel which had 4%. Cresselia isn't that common of a threat where you need to have a specific counter. Keep in mind that Sableye loses Prankster once it foul plays Cofagrigus. Now, if you had suggested Scarf Guts Hera instead of Honchkrow, then that's a different story. Scarf Guts Hera is a great poke to try in place of Honchkrow. Hera is too fast for TR at base 85 speed. I think even with 0 speed, it's out sped by base 65-70s in TR, which is a joke. You have Porygon2, Machamp, Cofagrigus, Rhyperior, Escavalier, Empoleon, etc. who are slower and will be faster in TR. At least Victini can decrease its speed with V-Create.

    Hmm, Rhyperior and Cofagrigus can't handle the dark types of UU. Let's go through the top tier threats.
    1. Umbreon-can be easily set up on by Cofagrigus since Foul Play does minimal damage to Cof (just watch out for Toxic Variants)
    2. Weavile- Rhyperior can Rock Blast and easily OHKO. Thanks to Solid Rock and that gargantuan defense it can easily beat Weavile. Can Gligar beat Weavile?
    3. Sableye-Prankster is gone once it foul plays Cofagrigus making it a mediocre poke yet again.
    4. Scrafty- loses its precious Shed Skin/Moxie once it hits Cofagrigus.
    5. Honchkrow-Rhyperior shuts it down with Rock Blast and can handle an Adamant LO Superpower easily.
    6. Sharpedo- Loses Speed boost once it crunches Cofagrigus and loses even more once TR is up. Can Gligar handle the ice beams that mixed Sharpedo usually have?
    7. Bisharp- HP Fighting from Cofagrigus will just about OHKO standard bisharp. Rhyperior can pick up the pieces once it's just about done with earthquake, barring a flinch from Iron Head

    I just went through all of the significant top 50 Dark threats as per the recent November usage. TR is an offensive playstyle. You have 5 turns and you can't waste a single turn.

    Just to prove my point on Hera vs. Rhyperior, look at the calcs below:

    252+ Atk Rhyperior Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 180-212 (53.8 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Guts-Activated Heracross Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 81-96 (24.2 - 28.7%) -- 98.9% chance to 4HKO
    +2 252+ Atk Guts-Activated Heracross Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 162-191 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 92.6% chance to 2HKO

    Even at +2, with Guts Activated, Hera's Stone Edge is not a guaranteed 2HKO on Gligar. You are assuming you land every hit with Stone Miss and Gligar doesn't roost.
  7. Qualna

    Qualna

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    109
    Don't lecture me about TR, Professor Patrick.

    Lol what with Gligar?! It seems you can't tell sarcasms, smartass. I'm just implying that you imply that Gligar is a greater threat than Dark types, but you falied to tell the obvious sarcasm.


    There's just so many wrong scenarios you gave...

    BU Shed Skin Scrafty doesn't really care losing Shed Skin IMO, Shed skin is just 33% chance to activate. Losing Shed Skin is just proloning the inevitable: The Scrafty sweep.


    The last scenario with Gligar and Heracross is just stupid, it's not like Heracross can't boost up in front of Gligar who can't do anything in return, unless it's the uncommon Aerial Ace variant, do you have a better suggestion in the fourth slot?

    Also notice most of your scenario involves Cofagrigus? That's what I wanted to avoid, you're putting too much pressure on Cofagrigus, I would have originally suggested Guts Machamp but BAM! Cresselia(and other Bulky Psychic types like Slowbro). Cofagrigus already does too much things it will faint before it accomplishes it all. So here comes Heracross AND Suicune to allievate the pressure on it.

    Not prepearing for a Pokémon just it is uncommon is silly, but here's an even bigger problem:

    Lol, it's obvious you don't see this team is also hard countered by defensive CurseLax Snorlax and RestTalk Snorlax to a lesser extent, and your suggestions didn't helped with that problem, at all.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
  8. Cacturne

    Cacturne

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    278
    I agree with qualna that crocune would be good for your team as set up it functions outside of TR and can set up easily on umbreon of all variants and i feel would work better for your team than honchkrow or rhyperior if you want to keep honchkrow around.

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