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TrickKrow evolved! UU RMT

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by GenXXZ, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. GenXXZ

    GenXXZ

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    281
    [UPDATED 8/10/2013]



    My journey to perfect the KrowPert Trickroom core continues.

    I decided to make a new thread instead of bumping the old one because this team has changed very, very drastically and I figure it's almost an entirely different team besides Honchkrow and Swampert.

    Also, upon the evolution of this team, I decided I would try Pokemon Showdown. Before this team, I had done most of my battling on Wifi and I really wanted PS to become my main source of battling. So far it's been going great.

    [RANKING, UPDATED 8/10/2013]

    [​IMG]

    I was playing this team during the suspect test, so here are both of the scores. Pretty darn good! At least, for me anyways >.<


    TEAM BUILDING

    [​IMG]
    This team started off with the idea of Trick Room Honchkrow. I thought it would be interesting to see how well he would do in such a different environment.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I wanted to create a strong offensive core with Honchkrow that would eliminate a wide variety of threats. Swampert turned out to be the perfect partner, having great synergy with Honchkrow.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Next up, I needed a reliable setter of Trick Room. Bronzong seemed like a logical and attractive option at first because of his nice bulk and good utility.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Porygon2 would be an additional setter of Trick Room, albeit a more offensive one.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Next up, I wanted an alternate way to seal a win condition if the KrowPurt core somehow broke. OTR Cofagrigus was my answer to this.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]

    The last spot was the hardest to fill a Pokemon with. At first, I wanted a Pokemon that could abuse Trick Room. I tried Specs Magneton, Band Emboar, and even a Specs Tangrowth. However, in the end, I decided that I needed a Pokemon that could work outside of Trick Room as well. Sub+3 Attacks Heracross was my answer because it's really easy to set up a Sub on Heracross due to the Scarf set being so popular, and it could also help me eliminate pesky dark types.


    Testing with the team began. First off, I felt like the team did not have enough momentum to keep Trick Room consistently up when I needed it, and I was failing to get rid of threats due to this. It was clear that changes to the team needed to be made.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The first thing that I wanted to change about the team was Cofagrigus. Overall, it just wasn't hitting hard enough, even after a couple Nasty Plots. I wanted more offensive power. I searched and searched for a proper alternative; one that would be able to run a similar set but with more power under its bealt. Eventually, I ran into a gem of a Pokemon, Beheeyem, who is perfectly designed to wreck havoc under Trick Room.

    The team was doing significantly better with Beheeyem, however, Porygon2 was now turning into a momentum sucker. Porygon2 is regarded as a very effective TR Pokemon, but I just didn't feel like it was doing much for me. Thanks to Kitten Milk, I ran into Trick Room Victini, a very powerful and effective threat that I still use.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]

    I also owe this Pokemon to Kitten Milk.... Thanks dude. Anyways, I decided to replace Bronzong with Smeargle because, overall, I really just don't like Bronzong aesthetically and I always thought it as kind of an oddball on the team. Smeargle has proven to be a very good Trick Room abuser though, so I don't regret the decision.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]

    After all the changes, I ended up having a pretty cool looking Trick Room team that I really liked. This is definitely my favorite team that I have made. Very later on though, I ended up making one last change. Gallade replaced Heracross because it could pretty much run the same set that Heracross was running, abuse and set up Trick Room, and hit just as hard.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]

    The team has been really fun to play with, and I'm really happy with how far it has come these past couple weeks. However, I felt that as the team raised to a higher and higher rank, some of the gimmicks needed to be ironed out in order for the team to be, overall, more effective. I found that more and more people were catching on to the Smeargle set, and because of this, I'd often find myself at a 5-6 disadvantage. Xatu replaced him as the lead to give my team some much needed utility and a weapon against entry hazards. Also, Cofagrigus makes a return on this team again as my Nasty-Room sweeper because I needed a weapon against the omnipresent Heracross, and the extra bulk.



    THE TEAM!

    (changes in bold UPDATED 8/10/2013)

    [​IMG]
    Honchkrow (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def.
    IVs: 0 Spd.
    Brave Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Superpower
    - Sucker Punch
    - Pursuit

    Trick Room may not be an environment that Honchkrow is familiar with, but damn is it an effective abuser of it. While Trick Room is up, I basically have the freedom to let off a powerful STAB Brave Bird without fear, eliminating the need to use the shaky and not-as-powerful Sucker Punch as an alternative. Additionally, since Trick Room allows me to invest in HP rather than Speed, Brave Bird recoil now does less damage to my Honchkrow percentage-wise. Superpower is also there to hit what may resist Brave Bird hard. Pursuit can be used to guarantee me a Moxie boost. Sucker Punch is there so that Honchkrow can be effective even after Trick Room has worn off during the late game.

    [​IMG]
    Swampert (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Def.
    IVs: 0 Spd.
    Brave Nature
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch
    - Hammer Arm

    Swampert is really the perfect partner for Honchkrow, forming what I call the KrowPert core. Choice Swampert is very powerful and can deal massive damage to the opposing team under the right conditions. Earthquake is the main move of choice, hitting everything for very valuable damage. However, Earthquake is often not a very good move to be choice locked into, so sometimes using Waterfall is a better choice. Normally, I don't favor the Ice type as a coverage move, however in Swampert's case it's an absolute necessity. Having an option to hit grass and flying types hard is very important. Hammer Arm is mostly a filler move, but it does have the nice bonus of lowering my speed after each use, which in Trick Room means I'm boosting it.


    [​IMG]
    Xatu(M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 Sp Atk, 252 HP, 4 Sp. Def
    IVs: 0 Spd.
    Quiet Nature
    - Trick Room
    - Heat Wave
    - Grass Knot
    - Psychic

    Here's an interesting one. Trick Room Xatu is really helpful; it's offensive enough to do some decent damage to things that may cause my team some trouble, like Rhyperior and Heracross, and it also has a ton of utility for my team by keeping hazards off the field and bouncing back other effects like taunt. I ended up replacing Smeargle for Xatu because Smeargle just wasn't pulling his weight anymore. People who knew the set could pretty much stop me cold and make it a 5-6 matchup in no time, which was really hurting my team. Xatu, although still somewhat gimmicky, has proven to be a lot more effective.


    [​IMG]
    Cofagrigus (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 HP, 4 Def.
    IVs: 2 Atk, 2 Spd, 30 Sp. Atk, 30 Sp. Def, 30 Def.
    Quiet Nature
    - Trick Room
    - Nasty Plot
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power Fighting

    As much as I absolutely loved Beheeyem, I kind of had to face the facts and add Cofagrigus to my team. Cofagrigus is a decently effective Trick Room abuser that helps me take care of a Pokemon that was really giving me trouble, Heracross. I sometimes miss Beheeyem though, and the power he offers. My team needed better defensive synergy, however, and I think Cofagrigus ties everything together nicely. Thanks to PsYch071c for persuading me to make this change.


    [​IMG]
    Victini @ Leftovers
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Sp Atk, 4 Sp. Def.
    IVs: 0 Spd.
    Brave Nature
    - Trick Room
    - V-Create
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Grass Knot

    Victini is a very powerful Pokemon under Trick Room. V-Create also has perfect synergy with it; actually boosting Victini's speed every turn rather than hampering it. This basically means that V-Create sweeps are actually possible now, which is incredible considering the attack has 180 base power. The reason behind using Fusion Bolt instead of Bolt Strike is because Bolt Strike actually has a paralyzation chance. This is usually a good thing, but under Trick Room, lowering the opponent's speed is something I don't want to do, especially considering that Victini still does have a pretty fast speed stat. Grass Knot is basically just to get around opposing Swampert and Rhyperior which would otherwise wall this set.

    Thanks Kitten Milk >.<

    [​IMG]
    Gallade @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 4 Sp. Def.
    IVs: 0 Spd.
    Brave Nature
    - Trick Room
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Night Slash

    Gallade is another setter of Trick Room and I Pokemon I find to be very effective. It's definitely underrated. I previously had a Sub+3 Attacks Heracross here, and the idea behind this set is basically the same except now I'm able to abuse Trick Room at the same time. With the addition of Gallade, 2/3 of the team can set up Trick Room, which means that it definitely is going to be up most of the time. Close Combat is sure to put some big holes into opposing Pokemon, and Night Slash is there to hit Pokemon that are immune to the STAB.


    FINAL THOUGHTS

    This team has changed a lot and, to be honest, I don't know what else to do with it. I want to do better on the PS ladder (The score I posted before accounts for all of the team's changes, so I'm planning on starting fresh) and I'm looking to get some constructive feedback. With that said, I hope you enjoyed reading my RMT and feel free to leave me any of your thoughts. :)
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2013
  2. CookieMonsterz

    CookieMonsterz

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2013
    Messages:
    14
    Hello, I happened to be creating my own UU article when I saw yours here. I happened to see something I liked and greatly appreciated about your article: Gallade. I too think Gallade is much to underated in the fact that he could setup and sweep quite easily. In fact, I think he was in RU before, wasn't he? But I see one minor detail with your Gallade, it doesn't really have anything to go on if it faced a powerful foe. I suggest more diverse move typing.
  3. GenXXZ

    GenXXZ

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    281

    Yeah you're right about Gallade, in fact I've been considering Swords Dance over Substitute recently. Overall though, I think wallbreaking is better left to Pokemon such as Beheeyem, or even Smeargle to some extent. Gallade is there to get around silly things like status and priority, and also as a secondary check to faster, frailer threats.
  4. Nightmare Vampire

    Nightmare Vampire

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2012
    Messages:
    159
    Hey GenXXZ. The core is back! This looks like so much fun, Honchkrow is one of my Top 5 fav Pokemon in terms of looks, lol. Swampy + Honchy looks like an impenatrable core especially under TR. Now onto the rate of the team:

    1) Victini with Grass Knot doesn't do its goal in my opinion. Rhyperior can 2HKO it, with a guaranteed OHKO after SR, while it can only 2HKO with Grass Knot in return. Here are the calcs:

    0 SpA Victini Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior: 294-348 (67.89 - 80.36%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    16+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Victini: 320-380 (79.2 - 94.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    16+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Victini: 320-380 (79.2 - 94.05%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    For this I suggest an EV spread of 252 Atk/252 SpA/4 SpD because even with 0 IVs/EVs in Speed, Rhyperior can still out speed you under Trick Room and with the EV spread you have a 12.5% chance to OHKO while Rhyperior still only has a guaranteed 2HKO unless SR is up.

    2) Sub on Gallade seems to make him a supporter and I feel Gallade would be better as a OTR Pokemon. Replace Sub with a Psychic STAB move like Psycho Cut. I feel Sub can be a waste of the limited 5 TR turns. If done before, it gets some use but I feel it is just a waste of a turn.

    3) I aboslutely hate that Smeargle set because it is like a Suicide TR setter but with 3 other TR setters, I feel like it works great, being able to kill at least one Poke and hopefully set TR twice before it dies.

    4) Minor, but the 4 Def EVs on Honchy needs to be in SpD to avoid the Download boost from P2 or PZ. Same goes for Swampy.

    That looks like that's about it. Have fun trying to perfect this core. I love this core and hope to see it one day reach its peak and be amazing. This makes me wanna pick a UU fav of mine (too many to pick atm xD) and make a core with it, lol.

    The Larvitar that keeps on going,
    NV
  5. GenXXZ

    GenXXZ

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    281



    Thanks for the rate (:

    Yeah I have been noticing that Grass Knot is not OHKOing Rhyperior. I find that this is not that big of a deal because lead Rhyperiors are usually knocked out/weakened by the time Victini has to deal with them, but you're definitely right; I should switch those HP EVs to Sp. Atk immediately. I didn't even really think of that, thanks a lot!

    Yeah Smeargle is doing incredibly well on this team thanks to how often Trick Room is up. I can basically switch in to any wall that's giving me trouble and permanently cripple it.

    Thanks for the tip regarding Download, I'll fix those EVs as soon as I can.
  6. Nightmare Vampire

    Nightmare Vampire

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2012
    Messages:
    159

    You are most welcome. And I cannot wait to see more RMTs from you. You seem to come up with the cool/greatest teams, lol.
    GenXXZ likes this.
  7. Kitten Milk

    Kitten Milk pink hair don't care
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    802
    Omfg ilysm.

    Anyway, neither of those sets were technically mine first, but you're welcome anyway ^^ They really are awesome. That said, you have some awesome of your own going on here with Beheeyem and Gallade on Trick Room, waow. Those sets look really, really cool.

    For your little gallade dilemma, I'd recommend running a third coverage move over Swords Dance. My reasoning is that it's not your main sweeper, and that you'd be wasting the trick room turn as well as taking damage, which makes it not as valuable. Besides, you already have a boosting sweeper in Beheeyem.

    What's cool about this TR team is that it has so many freaking win conditions it's amazing. Not only do you have KrowPert, which is probably one of the best cores ever created ever xD, but you also have a Beheeyem win condition, a TR Victini win condition, and possibly even a Gallade sweep if your opponent is low enough. I mean, holy shit. This is one of the most offensive TR teams I've ever seen, and it's really cool looking.

    Hmm, about Victini's EVs. I'm actually more of a fan of Brave max HP, but that's more personal preference than anything. For me, all Grass Knot did was allow me to 100% OHKO those pesky rhyperiors rather than just possibly OHKO them. You are running Fusion Bolt, though, so that might be different. I have to ask, though, why lefties? For a set that offensive, you really need to be running Life Orb to maximize the use you can get out of it. Yeah, it hurts, but lefties just don't really help much in the long run and you could be losing out on a lot of important KOs.

    With all of that said, I'm super impressed by this team, and I'm glad I could give you some set advice :3 I always love seeing what you come up with, and I think Trick Room is one of the most untapped playstyles in the whole game - it has tremendous potential that people ignore. For example, the whole concept of MinSpeeding a relatively fast pokemon to make it an effective TR sweeper would be ridiculous-sounding before, but it works like magic (I tried it in OU with Kyu-B, rampage.)

    Great job, and I look forward to seeing more =)
    GenXXZ likes this.
  8. Shadow Poochyena

    Shadow Poochyena

    Joined:
    May 29, 2013
    Messages:
    19
    This team looks really good :D I've heard some things about Banded Swampert but never actually used him.

    The only thing that sticks out to me is the lack of priority on the team. Sure, you have Honchkrow, but Sucker Punch is unreliable at times, and so I think another form of priority would help your team. I would suggest running Shadow Sneak on your Gallade, because if it can't net the kills the first hit, it can use priority to guarantee the kill before losing health. Also, it becomes a more potent revenge killer if TR is down. Just a suggestion, hope it helps.
  9. Psychotic

    Psychotic Autumn caught em, see all them leaves must fall down
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    602
    Hi there GenXXZ, Trick Room is a really interesting playstyle. I have a few suggestions that I really feel could help this team.

    Moveset Suggestions:

    I think Leftovers is kind of wasted on Victini, who could be doing way more damage than it already is if you gave Victini Charcoal over Lefties. A 20% damage increase to Victini's STAB V-Create is going to help your team much more than gaining 1/16 of your health back after every turn. Other than that, Swords Dance over Psycho Cut on Gallade. Gallade is bulky enough to set up, and the coverage that Psycho Cut provides is almost solely for Heracross, who isn't switching in on Gallade any time soon.

    Teammate Suggestions:
    Even though it is a very offensive playstyle, Trick Room is also about defensive synergy, and right now, any form of Heracross sweeps your team clean if Trick Room isn't up, the best you can hope for is a Megahorn miss. Beheeyem isn't adding to the defensive synergy at all, Psychic being a terrible defensive typing. Therefore, I think you should replace Beheeyem with Cofagrigus. This gives you the bulky Trick Room setter and Heracross check that your team needs. Right now you are relying on 4 very frail pokes to set it up, and pretty much any powerful attacker, such as CB Flygon, will keep you from setting up TR. Cofagrigus helps fix this problem, and is a potent Trick Room sweeper itself.

    Suggested Changes:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Show Hide
    Victini @ Charcoal
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Sp Atk, 4 Sp. Def.
    IVs: 0 Spd.
    Brave Nature
    - Trick Room
    - V-Create
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Grass Knot

    Gallade @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 4 Sp. Def.
    IVs: 0 Spd.
    Brave Nature
    - Trick Room
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Night Slash

    Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 2 Spd
    - Nasty Plot
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Trick Room
    - Shadow Ball
  10. GenXXZ

    GenXXZ

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    281
    Thanks for the rate, PsYch071c. I ended up going through with a majority of the changes you suggested. I still think Beheeyem can be a really great Pokemon, but you're right about my defensive synergy, and Heracross was giving me huge problems. I think the team is doing better with Cofagrigus.

    Gallade is now a Swords Dance sweeper and Victini now has Life Orb, so I can also have extra power with Bolt Strike and Grass Knot. Now that I have Cofagrigus, I don't really need Psycho Cut on Gallade.


    This post also functions as a bump in order to accommodate for the changes made to the team, which have all been updated.
  11. GenXXZ

    GenXXZ

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    281
    Thanks for the rate, Kingler.



    Togekiss is actually not that big of a problem. Trick Room completely shuts down the ParaFlinch strategy and Swampert can switch in on the predicted Thunder Wave and proceed to 2HKO with Waterfall or Ice Punch, depending on the bulk of the set. V-Create 2HKOs as well and Honchkrow can trap it need be.

    I've been switching back and forth on Fusion Bolt and Bolt Strike, I just really hate the Bolt Strike paralyzation chance; all of a sudden it paralyzes Suicune and now you have to have pretty much take Scalds until Trick Room wears off. It's a complete momentum sucker that I don't wanna risk running.

    I will test out your suggestions though; I'll give Beheeyem a Life Orb next time I test him again. Again, thank you for the rate!

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