1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Trictini

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by DrunkDemon, Mar 25, 2013.

  1. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    206
    Trictini
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Hi everyone, this is DrunkDemon with my first RMT in a while. I haven't had time to do anything like this recently, and I'm happy to be able to bring this team to you all. Just by looking at the Pokemon I have on this team, you might notice that it's a little strange for a sun team; Gothitelle, Mamoswine, and Scizor are uncommon picks for sun offense. But the reason I really like this team is the underrated threat it was based on - Trick Room Victini. With the correct support, which I think I've provided here, it can clean teams, especially offensive ones, very effectively. This team is very enjoyable for me, and it's a breathe of fresh air from the standard sun teams, so hopefully you'll enjoy the team too.

    Team Building

    Show Hide
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Ninetales was a pretty obvious choice to go with Victini. Sun is the key to unlocking V-create's true power, and it also prevents rain from completely nerfing it.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Next I wanted an offensive partner for Victini. I habit I've taken to when making an offensive team is checking to see how well trapping abilities and moves support the team. In this case, Gothitelle worked out great. With a unique moveset I threw together for it, it's capable of trapping and eliminating Hippowdon, non-scarf Politoed and Tyranitar, Utility Counter Jellicent, and defensive Heatran. With these eliminated, Victini will have very little trouble sweeping.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I wanted to add to my offensive core, and Venusaur was an obvious choice. It is without a doubt the best Chlorophyll sweeper available, and provides a much needed Water resistance. I knew I had to have it on my team.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Two things that stood out to me as problems at this point were Dragons and Psychics, the Latis especially. If this was earlier in BW2 I would have just slapped on Genesect, but that wasn't possible anymore. I had two main choices to deal with this: Scizor and Weavile. I really didn't want to add on to my Stealth Rock weakness, so I went with Scizor.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I knew for my last slot I wanted a Ground type. Offensive Heatran was still as problem, as was opposing Ground-types, and Dragons to an extent. I also really needed Stealth Rock. I tried out a few options, including Garchomp and Landorus-T, but eventually I decided on Mamoswine.


    In Depth
    [​IMG]
    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Flamethrower
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar
    - Sunny Day

    Ninetales in the centerpiece of this team. If it dies while an opposing weather starter is still alive, I have most likely lost the game. With that in mind, I used a defensive set in order to keep it alive for as long as needed. The EV spread is standard for Ninetales, letting it outspeed neutral natured Haxorus and Jolly Toxicroak. The health and defense investment makes it a decent switch-in for mons such as Scizor, while allowing it to survive an Earthquake from Dugtrio. Flamethrower keeps it from being Taunt bait while hitting targets that are weak, or neutral in some cases, for good damage. Will-O-Wisp is really cool for disabling physical attackers such as Terrakion, which are often very big threats for sun teams. Roar prevents sweepers like DD Nite from setting up on Ninetales, and is nice for racking up hazard damage in general. Sunny Day is really nice for making switch-ins from opposing weather starters pointless, racking up hazard on them to bring them into KO range by Gothitelle.

    [​IMG]
    Gothitelle (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Grass Knot
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Psyshock

    Gothitelle's trapping ability is invaluable for this team. Many people prefer Dugtrio as a trapper for sun teams, but Gothitelle has more overall utility in this role. Unlike Dugtrio, it's capable of trapping Hippowdon and Politoed pretty effectively, while still doing alright against Tyranitar and Heatran. Dugtrio is admittedly better against the last two, but Gothitelle's better trapping overall makes it more useful for my purposes, especially considering Hippowdon is one of the better Victini switch-ins. Choice Specs was chosen for Gothitelle, as it needs the power to deal reliable damage to Hippowdon, Politoed, and the like. The EV spread and nature give it maximum power while letting it outspeed things like Tyranitar. The moves are all here to remove specific threats. Grass Knot hits Hippowdon and Tyranitar really hard, as it gets 120 power due to their weights. It also gets the 2HKO on Jellicent. Thunderbolt is for Politoed and Slowbro. Hidden Power Ground is exclusively for Heatran, thanks to its 4x Ground weakness. Psyshock is for Tentacruel, and random Fighting-types.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 244 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    Scizor supports the team greatly by checking Dragons, especially Latios and Latias. Without Scizor to switch in and either force them out or Pursuit trap them, they would be able to come in often and take a member out each time. Scizor is equipped with a Choice Scarf to better deal with HP Fire carrying mons such as Latios and Alakazam. They will often stay in expecting to get a surprise kill on Scizor, only to get surprise killed themselves. Having a Choice Scarf user is also important to have on pretty much any team nowadays, and Scizor is the best candidate for it on this team. U-turn is a staple on non-SD Scizor for good reason, providing important momentum as well as a reliable STAB move to make use of Scizor's great attack. Bullet Punch may seem sort of strange on a Scarf set, but it's important really nice for hitting things Scizor can't outspeed, and has saved my ass on more than one occasion. Pursuit lets me trap Psychics and Ghosts like the Latis and Gengar that try to switch out. Finally, Superpower lets me nail Heatran switching for good damage, making it a nice lure. The EVs are self explanatory.

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine @ Chople Berry
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Icicle Crash
    - Stealth Rock

    Mamoswine provides a lot of utility. It makes nice use of STAB Ice Shard, hitting for Dragon and Ground-types most importantly for really good damage, especially those 4x weak to Ice, like Salamence and Landorus. Without Mamoswine, the only way I would have to stop these guys' rampage would be a neutral BP from Scizor, which isn't reliable at all. Ground attacks especially tear this team apart, as I have no resists. Earthquake provides a great complimentary STAB, getting excellent coverage alongside its Ice STAB. Icicle Crash provides a stronger alternative to Ice Shard, and is useful on mons slower than Mamo. Stealth Rock is necessary on pretty much every team, and Mamo is the only one that learns it, so it has to have it. Chople Berry(thanks for the idea Katakiri), is cool on SR Mamo because it makes getting Stealth Rock up much easier in this Fighting-type infested metagame without having to resort to Focus Sash, which is unreliable at best. It's also cool for luring in Fighting types like Terrakion so I can nail them with a super-effective STAB move. The EV spread is obvious, while Adamant makes up for the lack of a boosting item.

    [​IMG]
    Victini @ Charcoal
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - V-create
    - Bolt Strike
    - Brick Break

    The star of the team, Victini. The premise of the set is to turn V-create's effect of lowering the user's speed into a positive quality. Once Trick Room has been set up, spamming the absurdly powerful V-create will reward Victini by allowing it to "outspeed" more and more of the metagame. This is particularly effective in the frail, speed focused metagame that is BW2 OU. 252 attack EVs, a Brave nature, and 0 speed IVs maximize Victini's attack while minimizing its speed for Trick Room. The rest goes into bulk, with 248 health EVs minimizing Stealth Rock damage. Victini spams V-create for the most part, but the other two moves have some use. Bolt Strike hits Water-types for more damage than V-create, while avoiding V-create's defense drops. Brick Break hits Heatran for respectable damage, and I guess Tyranitar if it manages to stay alive somehow. Charcoal is chosen over LO since it mostly uses V-create anyway, and the extra damage is negligible.

    [​IMG]
    Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sludge Bomb

    Venusaur is a sun team staple for good reason. It possesses blazing speed under the sun, and can patch up its mediocre offenses with a +2 boost from Growth. The special bulk is also really nice for taking water attacks from rain teams. With this spread, Venusaur can tank an Ice SHard from mamoswine, and outspeed Scarf Latios, with the rest going into special attack. The IVs are optimal for Hp Fire, while minimizing attack to help with confusion and Foul Play. Growth is obvious for Venu to boost it's special attack, while Giga Drain is great for STAB and mitigating LO recoil. HP Fire nails Steel and Grass-types. Poison sucks offensively, but Sludge Bomb is Venu's best bet against Dragons, hitting them for neutral damage.

    Threatlist


    [​IMG]Heatran - Walls a good portion of my team, and offensive sets OHKO Gothitelle under sun. Luring it in with Scizor to either hit it with Superpower, or U-turn to Gothitelle if Sun isn't up helps. Victini can also hit it with Brick Break for good damage.

    [​IMG]Volcarona - My only way of dealing with it is getting SR up asap and phazing it out with Ninetales. It's a really shaky check though, so often I just have to try and set up before it does.

    [​IMG]Latias - Scizor and Mamoswine are nice checks, but if I mispredict with Scizor, it will most likely stick around to screw over Venusaur and (to an extent)Victini.

    [​IMG]Terrakion - I can revenge kill it fairly easily, but the trouble is that I don't have anything to take Stone Edges. Killing something with Mamoswine and then luring Terrak with Chople helps though.

    [​IMG]Tyranitar - Choice Scarf is the main issue here, since Gothitelle absolutely can't take a Crunch. If it locks itself into a different move I can take it out though. Sunny Day helps a lot.

    [​IMG]Politoed - Similar to Tyranitar, but to a lesser extent since Gothitelle can take a Scarf Hydro Pump. Venusaur and, again, Sunny Day help a lot here.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]Ground-types - Mamoswine is pretty much the only thing standing between them and my virgin asshole. Fortunately many of them are 4x weak to Ice, which makes them easy to revenge kill. Yache sucks a lot though...

    So that's the team! Thanks for reading, any comments and advice will be appreciated. The importable is below for anyone who wants to test the team.

    Show Hide
    Ninetales @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Flamethrower
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roar
    - Sunny Day

    Gothitelle (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 224 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Grass Knot
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Psyshock

    Scizor @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 8 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 244 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    Mamoswine @ Chople Berry
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Icicle Crash
    - Stealth Rock

    Victini @ Charcoal
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - V-create
    - Bolt Strike
    - Brick Break

    Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 180 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
    - Growth
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Sludge Bomb
  2. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    206
    Bumping so this can get critiqued.
  3. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,707
    Okay, seems like nobody wants to rate this team, and I don't see why since it's a nice one.
    I'll do a quick rate, because from what I see, I don't need to make any big change, and you already have a threatlist. Thank you for saving my time on this point.


    So, one-by-one, your pokemons :

    Ninetales :

    I don't like your set at all, I mean, what is the point of Sunny Day ? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're gonna Sunny Day when Politoed/Ttar/Hippow switch in isn't it ?
    And then what ? You will throw at them those weak resisted Flamethower ? You don't have Solar Beam, so to me, you're wasting a slot here.
    If you predict a Ttar switch, WoW him, if you predict Hippow's switch in trap him straight, and same goes for Politoed since Tbolt does like 78% from Gothitelle meaning that after 2 SR rounds, he's dead. May not be the best solution, but anyway, Sunny Day isn't doing anything for that too.
    Instead, try HP [Rock]. It deals with Volcarona and scores a surprise kill. Else, you really have issues with the butterfly from what I see.

    Gothitelle :

    I see no reason to go max speed. Try to speed creep in a 44-132 EVs radius in speed. 44 being based on the classic on-site Tyranitar spread that noboby should follow, and 132 being able to beat the fastest Tyranitar investing around 160 in speed. You get the idea I guess, 252 is not that useful, and considering Gothitelle's nice bulk, investing some EVs in HP is always good.

    Scizor :

    Same stuff, I think the spread is 16 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe. It's a nitpick, but if I remember correctly, you don't need more.

    Mamoswine :

    Put those 4 EVs in Def. Looks like an useless investment, but since you're supposed to take Secret Sword, Close Combat, having an extra point in Defense means that you'll have two extra points when the Berry is likely to be activated. On the top of that, you get a odd number, you will be able to switch one extra time when SR are up.

    Out of that, I got nothing else to say, your team looks fine and you have ways to beat the threats you listed. Play carefully with Mamoswine, as he is your only check to A LOT of threatening pokemons.
    I hope that I helped, good luck with your team.

    PS : I hate Sun teams, so I probably suck at giving changes.
  4. Gronkspike9348

    Gronkspike9348

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    67
    Actually, sunny day is highly recommended on the set.
  5. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,707
    Actually, you should read my line of logic, and post yours, instead of those one sentence useless comments.
    It is not because it's "on site", that you must copy it and apply it at all cost. As I said, he got a trapper to kill the weather introducers. No point using Sunny Day when you can win the weather war thanks to one of your pokemons. I believe killing Volcarona when you struggle with it, is far more valuable by the way.
    I hate repeating myself by the way, I think that lost my time here. But I know this feeling, when you use smogon analysis to back up your posts, you feel smart as hell.
  6. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    206
    Hey Remedy, thanks for the rate. Your HP Rock suggestion seems interesting, but my main problem with it is that it's really weak. I ran some calculations to see exactly what it would be doing to Volcarona, and after a Quiver Dance it's only doing 36-42% to the offensive set. So not even a kill after Stealth Rock damage. This begs the question of why I wouldn't just phaze it out. Bulky Volc is even worse since it gets Roost. I could hit it with HP Rock for some damage then phaze it, but if it Roosts on the phaze I'm p much in the same situation as if I didn't have it. You also underrate Sunny Day's ability to force switches and get the Stealth Rock damage I need for Gothitelle to KO. It also allows me to sack Ninetales, as opposed a more important member, in order to get Gothitelle in safely for the trap.

    Regarding the EV spread changes, they all seem to make sense. The main reason I had max speed on Gothitelle was because I thought it needed it to barely outspeed max Modest Tran, turns out I got them mixed up and Tran barely outspeeds -_-. I'll probably bump it down to 224 EVs to outspeed max Jolly Tyranitar, since I'm sort of paranoid about random noobs on the ladder with weird sets. You're right about Scizor, too; that's all the speed it needs to beat Alakazam. It actually only gets 12 EVs left, and I'll be leaving 4 in defense to reduce Stealth Rock damage. Speaking of Stealth Rock damage, I'm pretty sure you just want the health indivisible by 4, not odd. Mamo is still tanking mainly physical attacks, so I guess I'll do it anyway.

    edit: That's true, but this is an offensive team, so if I'm not sweeping with Venusaur or Victini by that point, then I probably deserve to lose. At any rate, doing better versus last mon Volcarona seems too situational for me to give up Sunny Day. I'll have to give Psych Up a try, though, that seems hilarious.
  7. Reymedy

    Reymedy The Black Sun.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,707
    Well the issue is obviously a last pokemon standing Volcarona that you couldn't Roar. That, plus the fact that if you have to bring in each time Ninetales, I would abuse it if I were against you, and just Roost as you Roar me. In the end, I'm full life, and you lost 25% and you have your weakest pokemon on the field.

    But if you can manage Volcarona, then I guess it's allright. Volcarona is often a weakness on paper, and not so much in a real game because of SR.
    For the slots on Ninetales, I guess it's also up to you, if you want a better Volcarona's answer, you could also give a try to Psych Up, Roaring would then be really cool after stealing the boosts xD
  8. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Won OST Predictions

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    998
    Hey DrunkDemon, nice team!

    First of all, I suggest running Choice Scarf Mamoswine over your current Life Orb variant. Look it your threatlist, the speed gained from Choice Scarf allows you to outspeed and do some heavy damage to everything there except for +1 Volcarona, but Choice Scarf does allow you outspeed unboosted Volcarona, so it can be helpful on rare occasions. Choice Scarf Mamoswine may seem strange when there are faster Choice Scarfers out there with similiar qualities, such as Landorus, but Mamoswine has something they sorely lack: Ice Shard. Simply put, without Ice Shard you're swept by Landorus after a Rock Polish. You'll also find yourself having big problems with the likes of Choice Scarf Garchomp if you don't have Ice Shard.

    Consequently, this change leaves you with a Choice Scarfer as your only Stealth Rock user, as you may know, being locked into Stealth Rock isn't very beneficial. However, I recommend you keep Stealth Rock on your Mamoswine. If you remove Stealth Rock you'll pretty much have to get rid of Scizor for something like Jirachi. This isn't good because Scizor is a great offensive presence, Bullet Punch is incredibly useful, a slower Pokemon that benefits from Victini's Trick Room is nice, and with Mamoswine as your Scarfer, you can now change Scizor to a Choice Band variant and give it Quick Attack. Quick Attack helps immensely against Volcarona, the one thing on your threatlist that Scarf Mamoswine didn't really help with. Unfortunately, Quick Attack doesn't miraculously fix your Volcarona problem, it's still a big threat, but it can easily pick Volcarona off when it's sitting at low HP. Quick Attack should probably replace Pursuit, it's unfortunate you can't trap Lati@s anymore, but they're less of a threat now that Mamoswine can outspeed and hit them with with Icicle Crash instead of Ice Shard.

    Finally, if you really don't like the sound of Choice Scarf Mamoswine, then I highly recommend Focus Sash as an alternative. Chople Berry sounds cool, but a lot of choiced Fighting types won't want to lock themeselves into their STAB move because then they can be trapped by Gothitelle. Focus Sash still has the same kind of suprise factor Chople berry does, albeit that's only until the opponent sets up Stealth Rock.

    Anyway, I hope this rate helped and GL with the team :)

    Choice Scarf Mamoswine (open)

    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Adamant / Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Icicle Crash
    - Ice Shard
    - Stealth Rock


    Choice Band Scizor (open)

    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - U-Turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - Quick Attack
  9. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    206
    Hi Doom,
    Scarf Mamoswine is a cool idea, and I understand how it can benefit the team. My problem with it is being Choice-locked into Stealth Rock. I know it can work (I seem to remember a popular team with Stealth Rock Scarf Jirachi pre-Genesect ban), but this team is pretty frail, and it's gonna suck to sacrifice teammates because I locked myself into a support move. The Focus Sash set seems more appealing personally; I ruled it out originally because I didn't want to add to my Stealth Rock weakness, but I haven't actually tested it. I'll test both of those out and see how it goes, thanks for the suggestions!
  10. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    206
    So, something of an update. I ended up just making the EV spread changes I wrote about on post six. Thanks for all the suggestions I received, even though I didn't end up using some of them.

    Since TGMD suggested Focus Sash on Mamoswine, I feel the need to elaborate some on why I'm using Chople instead. I think the most immediate reason is Stealth Rock. The team already dislikes them being up, as I have no spinner and two Rock-weak mons. The other reason is that, in this case, I don't really need Focus Sash to avoid any OHKOs. Taking a look at Mamoswine's typing, it's weak to Water, Grass, Fighting, (Fire if you don't count Thick Fat) and Steel. Sun takes care of the Water weakness, Chople takes care of the Fighting weakness, and Mamoswine's STABs generally discourage Grass, Fire, and Steel-types from coming in. In situations where it can't, like vs Scizor, Forretress, and Ferrothorn, Ninetales can discourage them from leading. If this was, say, weatherless offense instead of sun offense, I would probably just be using Focus Sash, but in this case I feel like Chople is superior.
  11. Frightful

    Frightful

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    Hi! Great sun team you have here, Victini is an absolute monster in the sun.
    Some people may have a different opinion, but since your entire team takes either neutral or super effective damage from Stealth Rocks alone, I feel that a rapid spin user would provide your team a longer lifespan needed to wreck, well, everything. Since you've stated that this is an offensive team, I'd recommend an offensive Donphan over Mamoswine. Sure, you do lose out on stab ice shard, but Donphan's often forgotten base 120 attack can really surprise someone, and you stated that Mamoswine is there to take physical hits, and Donphan can take hits like a champ. Not to mention he's an excellent check to your Terrakion problem.
    Here's the set, good luck!

    [​IMG]
    Donphan @ leftovers
    Sturdy
    Adamant
    252 hp / 252 atk / 4 def
    ~Stealth Rock
    ~Rapid Spin
    ~Earthquake
    ~Ice Shard

    Luvdisc'd!
  12. Leftiez

    Leftiez *Stars*

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2012
    Messages:
    1,140
    Hi There.
    This is a very cool team Sun, I appreciate very much Gothitelle in your team, I can't really rate your team because it seems correct to me but I notice in the T-list that you possess Tyranitar/Terrakion, Mamoswine is in your team to put Stealth Rock + Revenge Kill Dragonite/Salamence... but it does not have a very good bulk to come on Tyranitar, the opponent can weaken him to kill him after, then even with the Chopple Berry you are not certain that the opponent is going to stay, the big problem of your team is the lack of Rapid Spinner, you possess 2 pokemons weaks it is already a lot, if the opponent plays an offensive team you'll be very disadvantaged because you can not keep your weather as you'll be compelled to switch often and it is not very good for Gothitelle because It will not trapp easily , I suggest you put Donphan 252HP/252 Def/4 SpeDef on Mamoswine, Donphan is a very good pokemon for your team, it can easily come on Tyranitar and Terrakion, it can RK Landorus/Dragonite/Salamence... with Ice Shard, then now you can spinn.

    I noticed also that you say be weak against Volcarona, you possess Ninetales it stands up well against Bug Buzz and Fire Blast, so I suggest you swap Will O Wisp with Toxic, You can put pressure to Volcarona, if he has Hidden Power Ground you can rotate to kill him with Toxic. Then I also suggest you put Hidden Power Gound on Roar, I explain you: with or without Mamoswine you are still weak against Heatran Offensive because you are forced to let a pokemon die to come on him, you'll be very quickly at a disadvantage, the opponent can come easily with Heatran on your team (Scizor/Ninetales/Venusaure/Gothitelle (Blocked) /Victini), Heatran Offensive is not very bulky so it is 2HKO by Hidden Power ground and outspeed, If it has Air Ballon you can draw it with Venusaure to kill him after with Ninetales.

    Hope I Helped and Good Luck with your Team.

    ~Nantsuki.
  13. Thundur

    Thundur

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    435
    I played against this team, and I'm not sure if it was you or someone else, but I played poorly but beat [it] because [it] played loosely with Mamoswine. Basically, good players with a Landorus will weaken your Mamoswine whether it is with hazards or switching in on attacks. On your team, Mamoswine does a lot of dirty work, and I think it is a bit too much for it to carry at times. Once Mamoswine is gone, pokemon such as Landorus or Garchomp + a sand user will steamroll you. Just thoughts.
  14. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    206
    @Frightful Donphan makes a lot of sense, but my main gripe is that Ice Shard is really weak without STAB. It's doing, max, 74% to Landorus, and 64% to Garchomp. Landorus-T could even switch into an Ice Shard, and tank two more if it wanted too. Considering how weak my team is to Ground-types (actually I need to mention this in the threatlist), I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this change. Yeah it spins, but honestly I'm more scared of Ground-types than Stealth Rock with this team. I'll still give it a shot though.

    @Nantsuki See above for Donphan, I would prefer the offensive spread actually since Ice Shard really needs to be doing as much as possible. Regarding Ninetale's moveset changes, they seem like they could work. I'm pretty happy with Ninetales' moveset right now, but those changes aren't bad at all.

    @Thundur Yeah, you're exactly right. Mamoswine is a really key player, and the amount of roles he has to fill can cause problems. But with a team like this, you end up really tight for team slots, and it's sort of a necessary evil.

    Thanks everyone for your continued advice. Sorry if it seems like I'm being overly picky with these suggestions, it's just that I've found this team to be pretty rigid in it's structure, and changing something small can throw everything out of whack. I really do appreciate all the advice (and luvdiscs!) people have been giving me, even if I don't end up using them.
  15. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,882
    Pretty solid team here, but I don't really see the need of gothitelle. You win the weather war and you're still vulnerable to a lot of pokemon on your threat list. i understand that winning the weather war is important, but Gothitelle will only be able to take out 1 pokemon on average, because of its average bulk, poor speed and special attack (even with the specs it struggles to get ohkos).

    I would replace it with an offensive latias. Latias helps greatly against rain. It's a great pivot and can hit nearly everything hard on a typical rain team except for bulky steel types like Ferro and specially defensive jirachi. Latias also baits out Tyranitar so you can weaken it and limit the amount of switch ins it can get, pretty much filling the same role Gothitelle would in that situation. Latias is amazing against opposing sun teams, and it just gives you key resistances to fighting and ground which your team desperately needs. Gothitelle may give you a bit more offensive presence, but it can easily be deadweight against certain teams.

    Additionally like others have been saying, I think you should test out Donphan over Mamoswine on your team. Donphan can pretty much fill the same role Mamoswine had but can also spin. It might not hit as hard as Mamo, but the lack of a fighting weakness can really help it out.

    That's all I have to say about your team. It's definitely solid and I hope I helped you out.
  16. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    206
    Hm, that's actually a really cool suggestion Chimpakt. The reason I'm using Gothitelle is because it removes many of Victini's, and sun teams' in general, checks/counters. If I only was to change one Pokemon, I think I would keep Gothitelle because this team does not have much staying power, and I need to get certain threats eliminated asap in order to win. But if I changed Mamoswine for Donphan, Rapid Spin would make it a lot easier to keep Ninetales around, making a trapper less important. Latias also patches up the larger Ground-type weakness I would have without Mamoswine. This seems like a cool change for a more bulky offense version of the team, I'll have to try it out!

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)