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TriNitroToluene (#1)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Dezza Laa, Apr 9, 2011.

  1. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    264
    Introduction
    ..........

    Show Hide

    Hello

    Once again I come at you with another team in the attempts of making it better. The metagame hasn't changed drastically since my last RMT. The only addition to the ban list being Blaziken, whom I never seemed to view as being that much of a threat. This team has peaked at #1, like all of my previous 5th generation RMT's. My success probably is due to my understanding of the metagame right now. I have decided to try some really farfetched sets this time, and while seemingly gimmicky, actually function in the metagame at this current stage in time.

    I decided to skim through the usage stats over at Pokemon Online the other day. Most of it could be guessed, Chandelure is #1 (unbanned over there) and Ferrothorn coming in at a close second place. I used this as a catalyst for my team building this time, making sure I could at least counter the top 20 threats most commonly used. I actually found it quite easy to counter most threats in only a few Pokemon, the hard thing was keeping the synergy to an acceptable degree. Patching up the team with only one Pokemon when there were numerous obscure weaknesses made it hard to choose a usable Pokemon. It was that reason solely that I decided to experiment with a wall. Not having the amazing synergy I normally have isn't much to worry about with a wall capable of taking any type of hit when his weaknesses are covered by teammates. However, running a wall isn't as simple as it sounds. If you're offensive minded, you will know that when you see a wall you take that opportunity to set up and sweep. So not only did you need a moveset for walling capabilities (recovery move), you also needed a moveset to dish out damage and hurt the opponent. So with that philosophy and my acceptable synergy, I decided to try this team out, and now you're up to date!



    Team Building Process
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    Show Hide

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I once again started with my favourite core. They synergise perfectly and their 4x weaknesses are covered with immunities or 4x resists on another Pokemon. They are also very hard hitters and are also incredibly bulky. That made them the perfect candidate for my bulky offensive team.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I looked at the usage statistics over at Pokemon Online and saw that there were some major threats that I wasn't dealing with. The most noticable were CM Reuniclus and Bulk Up Conkeldurr used in tandem as well as Choice Specs Latios. I searched through the Pokedex in ordeer to find something that could counter all of these. I then saw Sub Disable Gengar and experimented with it, only to add Pain Split to also counter Stall teams a little better.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I found a few threats worrying, especially Sandstorm Pokemon such as Tyranitar and Excadrill. Conkeldurr made a great candidate to counter these two dominant threats. It also has a reputation for being a game ender so I knew he was perfect. He acts as a revenger as well meaning he fills so many roles.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I really had nothing much that I needed to counter anymore so I started to look at the odd stat up sweepers, such as Cloyster and Scizor. They were all easily handled by Quagsire, thanks to his new ability Unaware. Not only that but he had a plethora of moves that while obscure, were abusable. He is more of a defensive Pokemon, but he does do a good job at what he needs to do.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Jellicent + Ferrothorn in tandem were starting to cause me trouble as well as things such as Gliscor. I knew that all the Pokemon on my team were essential so it was really hard to replace a Pokemon. In the end Conkeldurr had to leave for Virizion. Virizion still counters all the things that COnkeldurr did, as well as Gliscor and Breloom. He also handles the Jellicent + Ferrothorn combo.



    Team At A Glance
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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    In Depth Analysis
    ..........

    [​IMG]

    Garchomp (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)

    - Outrage
    - Dual Chop
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Garchomp's recognition as Uber's material last generation isn't really surprising. With reasonable bulk, a great attacking stat coupled with great STAB moves and the perfect speed stat of 102, it leaves Garchomp with many roles to fill on the team. Garchomp functions as a revenge killer as well as a late game sweeper. His great speed stat means that he outpaces all Dragon's bar Lati@s after a Dragon Dance thanks to his Choice Scarf. This gives him the ability to reign supreme amongst all Dragon's, seeing as how Dragon Dance Lati@s is non-existent. This forces many switches and allows me a free turn to out predict the opponent and cripple their switch-in, most times putting them into KO range.

    His movepool is mostly standard. Outrage hits anything hard, seeing as how there a yet to be any 4x resistors or Dragon's. Outrage is also the choice of move late game when the opponents team has been weakened and are helpless against him. Dual Chop while seemingly a weird choice has its benefits over the likes of Dragon Claw. While it has a shakier accuracy stat, it's ability to hit two times means that he is able to handle Substitute abusers, Focus Sash users and Multi Scale Dragonite. It also means that there is a higher chance to get a critical hit, and although some may complain about a haxxy game, it's better to have the haxx in your favour. Earthquake is the secondary STAB move that is coupled with Outrage. Its power is tantamount to Outrage and offers near perfect coverage with it. While there are a lot of Pokemon immune to Earthquake now, it is still invaluable to this team. Stone Edge, while doing little for covering the few Pokemon Garchomp can't touch, benefits the team as a whole. Rough Sking, while seemingly a weird choice, actually allows me to take my foe down with me at the most dire of times. That and the fact that I find Sand Veil useless with a Scarfed Garchomp are why I went with Rough Skin.

    Without Garchomp Nasty Plot Thunderus as well as Quiver Dance Volcarona are threats to this team. Stone Edge OHKO's Volcarona with ease and brings most Thunderus into KO range. I have noticed a few Thunderus are starting to EV themselves to just take a Stone Edge from Garchomp and OHKO back with Hidden Power Ice. However it's nothing much to worry about, seeing as how Quagsire is still a good check to Thunderus. Garchomp also handles and dispatches all Dragon's such as Garchomp, Dragonite and Lati@s with ease. He mocks things such as Scarf Chandelure and Speed Boost Blaziken aswell, easily outpacing and replying with a swift OHKO. If Garchomp is at full health and Excadrill no longer has an Air Balloon and no boosts he can also handle any move and OHKO in return.

    [​IMG]

    Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 156 HP / 168 Def / 184 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

    - Dragon Dance
    - Taunt
    - Waterfall
    - Bounce

    BulkyDos makes a return to Pokemon this generation. A threat since Gen 1, he has continuously found use from generation to generation and many realise what a threat he is. The fact that Gyarados has raw power and doesn't require any boosts to take a chunk out of the opponent means that many still fear him prior to a Dragon Dance. Not only that but his acceptable defences and his amazing ability, Intimidate, makes him a behemoth. Intimidate is the key to using Gyarados on this team. His ability to render something useless makes him a valuable asset to this team. Without any investment and lack of stat upping move, there are few Pokemon that can do more than 15% to Gyarados on a neutral attack.

    Dragon Dance is easily set up thanks to Gyarados' great defences. Dragon Dance boosts his two most important stats, attack and speed. His ability to boost his most important stats meant that it was a no brainer slotting him into this team. Taunt, while seemingly strange, offers Gyarados the ability to stand its own against the likes of Whirlwind Skarmory and Leech Seed Ferrothorn. It prevents any attempts at phazing, as well as most forms of status. Waterfall is a mandatory move for Gyarados. It doesnt matter what set you run, Waterfall needs to find its way on it. Waterfall by itself has the ability to tear through an opponents team thanks to the STAB boost it gets. With its chance to flinch an opponent aswell means that there really is no other reason to use something like Aqua Tail. Bounce while offering great STAB, also offers so much more. Not only does it give me a chance to give Gyarados a second turn of Leftovers recovery, it also functions as a ParaHax set in tandem with Waterfall. While the odds aren't as good as Serene Grace Jirachi, it's still helpful. The EV's are put into defence seeing as how Gyarados already has a way to boost its attack.

    The most important Pokemon that Gyarados checks for this team is Breloom. Without him, Breloom would steamroll this team. As long as some other Pokemon receives the Spore, Gyarados will be able to outpace and miss the Bullet Seed and OHKO with a Bounce. He is also a good check to Scizor and most Fighting type Pokemon such as Conkeldurr as well as Heatran. He functions well against Rain teams, thanks to the boosted Waterfall and his ability to take a few hits. All in all Gyarados handles almost all physical threats, thanks to Intimidate.

    [​IMG]

    Heatran (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

    - Stealth Rock
    - Overheat
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Heatran's role on this team isn't an easy task. He sponges so many hits that it is surprising that he is still around most games. I rely on him as my single Dragon resist and have found little need to run another. The fact that he has found his own niche as a bulky Fire Pokemon means that there really wasn't any other choice besides him. Not only does he take hits, he also decimates switch-ins to him. His resistances plus immunities means that he forces a lot of switches, meaning that he can fire of attacks without any repercussions. His rather shallow movepool is a bit of a let down, but he makes do with what he has been given.

    Heatran's all important role on this team is to set up Stealth Rock's. While they aren't as game changing as they were in 4th generation, they still are game changing. With the focus of my team being forcing switches, Stealth Rock's soon find themselves racking up damage. Overheat is the STAB of choice. This is simply due to the fact that Heatran functions as a 'hit and run' type of Pokemon. People will switch in a counter to Heatran when they see him, so it only makes sense to hit hard and run. Although there are times I wish that I had Fire blast over Overheat, most times Overheat is more beneficial. Earth Power gives good coverage along side Overheat, covering fellow Fire type Pokemon. Hidden Power Ice gives me the ability to dispatch of Outrage locked Dragon's in a second. I chose Hidden Power Ice overs Dragon Pulse because Ice can also hit Grass and Flying types hard, while Dragon Pulse only hits Dragon's. While its base power is lacking compared to Dragon Pulse, the fact that there are Pokemon that are 4x weak means that it is a feasible option over Dragon Pulse.

    Heatran checks most status moves most importantly. Will-O-Wisp and Toxic are asking for Heatran to switch into and fire off an attack. He's a good check to Steel types such as Ferrothorn, Forretress and Scizor aswell as the near perfect counter to Genesect, all of which aren't able to even scratch Heatran. He also handles +6 Serperior's with ease, due to the fact most carry Hidden Power Fire, meaning he's just fodder. While Heatran doesn't counter as many threats, he does have to take a lot of hits from most Pokemon such as Psychic, Ghost, Dark hits etc. which is crucial to this team.

    [​IMG]

    Gengar (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

    - Substitute
    - Disable
    - Pain Split
    - Shadow Ball

    Gengar already looks menacing. His red eyes signify the blood and hatred he has for other Pokemon. His amazing immunities and resistances means he finds himself switching in and forcing many switches. There are few Pokemon that carry more than one move that is deadly to Gengar and that is why he carries that grin. While he does have paper thin defences, he has juggernaut offences. His speed means he's rarely outsped by anything, and his attack means that the opponent is rarely still there after an attack or two.

    While this set may seem obscure and rather stuck together, it functions and carries out what needs to be done. Substitute gives me many chance to scout an opponents team. The fact that he has many immunities means that he can Substitute up while the opponent switches and then handle the opponent from there. Pain Split and Disable used collectively is the highlight of this set. While you may argue he only needs one, for my set he needs both. Disable allows me to check those Pokemon that only have one move to hit Gengar, forcing switches. It also helps others on my team to switch in to a certain Pokemon that would otherwise be threatening. Pain Split handles stall relatively well, thanks to Gengar's measly HP stat. Not only that, it increases Gengar's longevity as well as decreasing the opponents. Shadow Ball was the choice of attack, simply because of the fact that Gangar received the STAB. It gives him the ability to dispose of weakened threats and gives him an easier time against certain threats to this team. I slapped on a Life Orb, simply because Gengar has Pain Split and therefore can abuse it with very few cons.

    Gengar's ability to check a vast array of Pokemon means that he counter a lot of Pokemon. Firstly he is a great counter to Choiced Pokemon, thanks to Disable. Disable also allows it to stop mono-attacker's sweeps as well as Pokemon with only one attack to hit Gengar with, such as Reuniclus and Conkeldurr. Those two are probably the most important thing that Gengar check for me. He also has the ability to check Magic Bounce Espeon and Jellicent as well as the omnipresent Lati@s pair. With a Substitute under his belt, he is able to counter a lot more threats such as Excadrill, but that sounds easier than it really is.

    [​IMG]

    Virizion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 60 HP / 36 Def / 220 SAtk / 192 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)

    - Calm Mind
    - Giga Drain
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Virizion completes the FWG core which I have going as is probably one of the better Pokemon to do this. This is due to the fact that FWG cores are torn apart by weather teams, which Virizion is known to be able to counter very well, specifically Rain and Sandstorm. His acceptable defence, and stellar speed, attack and special defence make him a juggernaut on the field. While his ability is of absolutely no use, he still makes a great candidate for my team.

    Calm Mind Virizion is feared by weather teams, and for a good reason too. The fact he can come in on so many typical weather Pokemon and set up with ease, meaning that he can easily dismantle an entire team after just a couple boosts. Calm Mind is the crux of this set, allowing Virizion to boost his defence to better handle weather teams, Rain especially. After two or three boosts, nothing short of a critical hit will be taking Virizion down. The fact that he is paired with the improved Giga Drain only heightens the usefulness of Virizion. It boost in power Giga Drain has received this generation makes it a great move, not only damaging the opponent, but also healing the user. While not as strong as other grass moves he may have in his arsenal, it is still a viable choice this generation. Focus Blast offers a shaky dual STAB combination. With a miserable 70% accuracy and minute 8 PP, Focus Blast is a rather high risk high reward move. When it comes down to it, Focus Blast makes or breaks games and really is up to the hand of God. However when things do work out, Focus Blast hits like a truck, severely punishing the opponent. Unfortunately Focus Blast is Virizion's only specially based Fighting move, so there really is no substitute. Hidden Power Ice is very standard on a Calm Mind Virizion, but I use it to check the threats that need to be checked. Hidden Power Ice at the end of the day was chosen to give Virizion the ability to counter the threats that I needed to counter. It wasn't for getting good coverage or power. It was to ensure that my team wasn't completely swept by omnipresent threats.

    Virizion probably has to counter the most threats. He single-handedly decapitates weather teams, most notably Rain and Sandstorm, taking down not only the weather bringer but his whole team. He has to counter dominant threats such as sand sweepers like Excadrill and rain sweepers like Kingdra as well as walls such as Gliscor, who would otherwise wall this team to hell. He also handles the Jellicent + Ferrothorn core which are troublesome as well.

    [​IMG]

    Quagsire (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Unaware
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)

    - Stockpile
    - Recover
    - Swagger
    - Scald

    This is personally my favourite Pokemon on this team. He functions as a counter to so many physical threats and finds himself sweeping a lot of Pokemon, quite a few times the most. His great defences and ability to further boost it means that he is an all round tank. The crux of Quagsire is in his ability, Unaware. Ignoring all boosts means that he it's hard to muscle through him. He takes all physical hits like they're nothing and shrugs it off. When working with Quagsire you're never going to get enough power to sweep a team. So I thought about letting the opponent killing himself.

    Stockpile is the basis for this set to work. Before this strategy can work, you need the ability to take hits a bit better. Stockpile can do this to an extent, boosting both wings of his defence to +3. From there Recover gives me a viable form of recovery and longevity, meaning that even if critical hits come into account Quagsire still won't go down. Swagger is the move that is doing all the damage. With Unaware, boosting the opponents attack to +6 is not a problem for me. However for the opponent, no matter how little their attack stat is, their due to at least severely cripple themselves. Many physical sweepers find themselves killing themselves rather than me killing them. Scald is there to prevent Taunters and allows me to handle physical threats even better, as well as crippling opponents. While it does measly damage to most Pokemon, it still is annoying for the opponent having to deal with a burn and confusion.

    Quagsire handles many threats as well, handling stat upper's with ease. Baton Pass teams find themselves with nothing to do and the ever deadly Gorebyss Baton Pass strategy won't work. He handles threats such as Shell Smash Cloyster, who even with the critical hits, won't come close to 3HKOing. He also handles the likes of Swords Dance Garchomp, Specially Defensive Scizor, Dragon Dance Tyranitar, Swords Dance Excadrill etc. Pokemon who also decide to invest in defense instead of attack find themselves unable to break through Quagsire as he laughingly mock them. With luck he is even able to handle Ferrothorn and Breloom with confusion hax, but it is a last resort kind of thing.

    Threats
    ..........

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]

    Although this team has its counters for Breloom, I still have noticed the slightest Breloom weakness. The weakness comes from lack of Spore absorber, not from its power or moveset. However minor the weakness is, it can't go unnoticed because if I mispredict the Spore and Gyarados ends up asleep it's going to take a lot more prediction and effort than it should.

    [​IMG]

    No, not a weakness to Roserade. I couldn't find a picture of Toxic Spikes so I used the Pokemon notorious for setting them up. Toxic Spikes are kind of the closest thing that comes to making me want to rage quit. They're my kryptonite, crippling most of my physical sweepers as well as my dedicated wall. It may seem amusing to you that such a minor thing can decapitate my team but I'm sure Toxic Spikes could slaughter your team as well under the hands of a good player.



    Importable
    ..........

    Show Hide

    Velociraptor (Garchomp) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Outrage
    - Dual Chop
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Poseidon (Gyarados) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 156 HP / 168 Def / 184 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Taunt
    - Waterfall
    - Bounce

    Mt. Vesuvius (Heatran) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Overheat
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Musketeer (Virizion) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 60 HP / 36 Def / 220 SAtk / 192 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Giga Drain
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Durian (Gengar) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Disable
    - Pain Split
    - Shadow Ball

    Unaware (Quagsire) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Unaware
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Stockpile
    - Recover
    - Swagger
    - Scald



    Final Glance
    ..........

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
  2. JerkyGunner

    JerkyGunner

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    13
    Wouldn't Garchomp's Rough Skin make this a Dream World team?
  3. irkkk

    irkkk

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    92
    shouldn't you use a different nature on quagsire. ipmish would lower s atk which makes scald so less. Sassy maybe?
  4. Benlisted

    Benlisted

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2010
    Messages:
    1,058
    It's a real shame noone's given this a proper rate seeing how good the team is. Presumably its because they were waiting for even a vague threatlist to better tailor a rate, but since this hasn't got much attention I'll post this reserve so I remember to rate it a lot more once you edit it in.

    Anyway, in terms of things I can spot without a threatlist, Bulldoze looks like it may be unecessary on Quaggy when you could instead use something like Encore to both screw over fast sweepers and slow setup mons instead (and obviously change the nature with that). Fire Blast looks preferable on Heatran unless Overheat is necessary for any OHKOs, purely as it lets you remain in, though due to your low Spe you may be forced out so mcuh it works alright. Also, wondering what Spe IV you run on Conk?

    Hope this is of at least some assistance.
  5. Friar

    Friar

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    615
    This is an excellent team. Not too many weaknesses and using some unorthodox sets, I really like it.

    That being said, I'd be worried about how well the (very common) Ferrothorn + Jellicent combo handles your team. Ferrothorn is a great counter for Garchomp, Gyarados, Quagsire, and Gengar. I know for two of those Ferrothorn is a "sort of" counter because Gyarados has Taunt and Gengar can Disable, but really Gyarados and Gengar aren't going to break Ferrothorn anytime soon, because Protect screws Gyarados as does repeated Power Whips, and if Ferrothorn has two attacks or can predict a Leech Seed, Gengar is going down also. Leech Seed and Spikes will work to bring down Heatran and Conkeldurr, your two main options to deal with Ferrothorn. Heatran is obviously countered hard by Jellicent, so your relying a lot on Conkeldurr to bury defensive teams, which is unreliable at best. A few changes you could think about could be running Toxic / Fire Blast / HP Ice / Stealth Rock on Heatran with a Balloon. This should help because you can spread Toxic around, especially on Jellicent. If you play it conservatively, you will b unaffected by Ferrothorn's Spikes due to Balloon, and can spot check Excadrill, Landorus, Dragons, etc. Earth Power mainly hits Fire types and Tyranitar, but you have Chomp / Gyara / Quagsire / Conkeldurr, so you wont miss it.

    I'd also take Pain Split off Gengar, and just run Leftovers + Focus Blast because the extra coverage will help you out against basically anything that resists Ghost, which is helpful. Also stomps on Ferrothorn, which your team needs. Without Pain Split it won't work quite as well against Stall, but with Stone Edge Conkeldurr (tough for the typical stall team to beat), as well as Taunt Gyara (not as much prepared for in this generation), I think you will be ok.

    As a final note, I think with your Ferrothorn problems you might want to look into Fire Blast again on Garchomp. I've always found Double Chop unnecessary, because Earthquake and Stone Edge do a good enough job of revenge killing with good coverage early game. Fire Blast lets you hit Skarmory, Bronzong, and Ferrothorn, and gives you unresisted coverage that should open up for the eventual Outrage sweep.

    Good luck with the team!

    EDIT: o and you need Sand Veil if you want Outrage iirc
  6. Sneaky

    Sneaky

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    Great team once again Dezza! I remember battling against you on PO while you were using this team. This team makes sand look like a joke. Very well put together team. I noticed you had 126 Spec defense on your Conkeldurr it should be 136 I believe. My only suggestion for the team is to put lava plume on Heatran rather than over heat. 80 Base power move 100% accuracy and the chance of burn helps a lot. This team is quite solid I don't have much else to say. Great Job. PS: When are we gonna make that scrafty team? xD
  7. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    264
    Thanks. Wasn't really thinking straight.

    Hey,

    I'm actually trying out Swagger over Bulldoze right now. It's been doing pretty well, as I have noticed that Quaggy doesn't have the attack stat to even kill a Caterpie. Fire Blast's shakier accuracy really is the reason why I'm running Overheat. I can't risk the miss.. For Conk I'm still running all 31 IV's. I'm actually trying out Virizion over him right now and it has been working pretty well. It once again is an unorthadox set (specially based with CC). He actaully works pretty well.

    Hey,

    I noticed my JelliThorn weakness and I have actually changed Conkeldurr to Virizion. He handles both of them well, aswell as weather. He also handles the top 20 threats that Conkeldurr did (TTar, Ferrothorn, Excadrill).

    I can't give Heatran a Balloon beacuse I need him to take soo many hits. I have considered it but he doesn't function as well.

    I have considered taking off Pain Split. I will see how it works with Focus Blast.

    Hey,

    136 SDef is what I meant. Lava Plume really doesn't have to power that Overheat does, and seeing how Heatran is kind of a hit and run Pokemon, I need all the power I can get.

    As for the Scrafty team I'm still overseas and will be able to in like a month :P
  8. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    264
    Okay,

    Well I've messed around with a few things and I am still tinkering with Virizion and whether it is worth running a mixed set or not as well as its EV spread. However I have decided that Swagger works amazingly well on Quagsire and then decided to ditch Bulldoze for it. Still need some help and if you've messed around with this team then you could help me create a threat list...
  9. steel dragons

    steel dragons

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    20
    I'm curious; wouldn't Work up work better than calm Mind for Virizion? It would make virizion more threatening to opposing teams, and Virizion has a high special defense anyway. Also, would a Naive nature work better than a Hasty nature, seeing that you want this virizion to take hits from stuff like Excadrills and Gliscors?
  10. OMGTFBBQQ

    OMGTFBBQQ

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    62
    wow. This team is pretty damn near to being prefect. I'm pretty surprised this hasn't had many rates yet.

    I really can't find any glaring weaknesses in this team and I am in love with your Quagsire set. It is the bomb. The only thing is that you should run a Bold nature, simply because speed could be a game changing thing, while attack won;t be with quaggy.

    As you said your Virizion set + EV's aren't up to scratch and I have kind of found another suggestion. I agree with steels fragons in that you ought to change his nature to +spe -spD. CM makes up for that tiny drop and as you said he needs to check a few physical threats. I also believe that you should take the 60 EV's in attack and dump it in defense. It really does help a lot more.

    Nothing else much to say except that I hope you keep posting great teams for me to try :P
  11. min min

    min min

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2010
    Messages:
    939
    The fact that it's pretty near perfect means that one would be very hard-pressed to even give a rate. Your team covers every angle that I can think of: First I thought about Heatran being the only steel (and without a Balloon, at that) causing a weakness to powerful dragons, but the closest one gets is a MixMence with DD/Draco Meteor/Earthquake/Outrage, and even that is revenged by Garchomp.

    Gengar has to have either Disable or Pain Split as its gimmick move, nothing else. The main purpose of Pain Split is to wear Chansey and Blissey down to KO range of Focus Blast, and without Focus Blast there's no accomplishing that. Given that stall is neatly handled by Gyarados and Quagsire, I'd second just running Focus Blast on that Gengar over Pain Split since you absolutely require Disable for it to counter Conkeldurr and Reuniclus. Unless...if you can handle Conkeldurr with Quagsire and Gyarados, Gengar can be replaced with something similiar that can take down Reuniclus which I can't really come up with right now. Um...Honchkrow?

    Anyways, best of luck with that awesome team!
  12. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

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    Virizion needs the ability to boost defence to work better IMO. He does have a way to boost attac, no matter how unreliable it is, so he doesn't really need two. As for the nature you're right and I have changed it to Naive and dumped the attack EV's into defence just for that extra boost.

    I agree with the defence into attack and I have changed it. I wouldn't say this team is near perfect :P It still has a lot of work to become 'near perfect'.

    I have tried without one or the other but I found both valuable to him, needing it for longevity as well as countering stall. In that way it isn't only for stall but also benefits himself. Also lol Honchkrow ;).


    BTW I'm thinking of running just a specially based set for Virizion.. What are your opinions??
  13. OMGTFBBQQ

    OMGTFBBQQ

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    If it were up to me, I would keep just the normal specially based Virizion, seeing as how fighting move is vital to cover threats which he checks, and he cant KO certain threats... but that is my opinion.
  14. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

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    I'm flattered. Thanks for the rate and all. I agree with the part on running a specially orientated Virizion because you do raise a lot of arguments as to using him over the current set which actually make sense.
  15. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a SPL Winner

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    I'm confused. Is this a DW team or a Wifi team? In the RMT, you mention Heatran as "a near perfect Genesect counter", and how Gyarados checks Breloom by "missing the Bullet Seed". Neither Genesect nor TechLoom are released yet, so that brings in a little confusion for me, since I don't know which metagame to look at.

    Still, excellent team as always. I wish I could have that kind of team building skill. :P
  16. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    A little problem with breloom as you don't have a dedicated sleep absorber, also your team has problems with toxic spikes making so that quagsire cannot wall shit.

    Great team though
  17. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

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    It's mainly my Wi-Fi team, but I do play Dream WOrld from time to time and found it works just as well.

    Thanks, updates my threat list. Surprised you mentioned TS as a weakness, seeing as how fast paced this metagame is :P
  18. Nonary Game

    Nonary Game

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    I've played with this team. Major Venusaur in sun weakness out the ass. Seriously, there's nothing stopping it from grabbing a Growth in Sunlight and sweeping you clean unfortunately. Heatran can't stop it safely enough, Garchomp isn't outspeeding it safely or taking a +2 Energy Ball well, while Garchomp can't OHKO back. Gyarados and Virizion are dead vs this thing, and Gengar/Quagsire are screwed.

    I'm curious how you handle it, because I'm having issues getting around it seeing how I can't take it's one advantage away: sunlight.
  19. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

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    I'm confused... the only venusaurs I have ever encountered have carried either power whip, sludge bomb, HP fire or EQ. It can only carry 3 since it needs growth at least. if it is missig EQ heatran will destroy it. if it is missing sludge bomb garchomp resists all his moves iirc. no power whip the gyarados can bounce. no HP fire then it can't touch gengar after a disable on SB.
  20. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    The main way Venusaur would threaten you is with HP Fire/Energy Ball/Earthquake, since a neutral Energy Ball at +2 is more than enough to deal with Chomp (Power Whip is technically an illegal egg move). This is generally an inferior set due to being walled by Latios, DNite, Mence etc, but for you it would pose issues.

    That said, the main things it looks like it could set up on are Quaggy, who will Swagger it (and at +4 Atk recoil will hurt bad) and Gyara, who he is a bit of an issue for. However if you play carefully with Gyara VS Sun then you'll be able to tell if it has SB and all is fine for Tran to wall it, so tbh you shouldn't have too much trouble with it, especially if you can stall out some LO recoil.
  21. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

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    Luckily I find a lot tend to carry 2 support and 2 attacks, meaning that I just need to figure out which moves Venusaur carries and counter that.
  22. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

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    Hey Magma,

    I tried out your suggestion of a Bulky SD Drapion and I found it to be a little lackluster power wise. It just didn't have that oomph it needed to get past stuff. I also found it hard to switch in, due to the fact that it didn't have any immunities that it could switch in with imputy. Also the fact that it took Spikes damage hurt its potential...
  23. kingofnubs

    kingofnubs

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    i might be wrong but i have a feeling that life orb ludicolo in rain would one hit more than half your team (Gengar Heatran Garchomp Quagsire) and depending on its EV's Virizion. Mine also carries hidden power electric which could cripple gyarydos. Have you run into it yet?
  24. Red Alert

    Red Alert

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    ludicolo with rain dish? I don't see how it could be a threat to much of anything.
  25. Eggbert

    Eggbert

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    Nice team, but I see some problems with threats like Latios and enemy weather teams. Latios has little problem firing off Draco Meteors since the only check you have to it is dragon weak. Heatran can't OHKO it and if it has LO over specs will not be able to do much. Latios walls Virizion and can OHKO quagsire I believe. Rain teams will often always have either a Lati@s or Toxicroak to counter and set up on Virizion. Without a Tyranitar, Latias can perpetually force out Virizion and stop it from doing anything since it needs alot of boosts to sweep due to its low SpA and investment.

    Because of this, I would just try running a pursuit Tyranitar over Heatran. It can still set up stealth rock and and hit Ferrothorn hard, but it gives you a great way to pursuit the lati twins. Tyranitar works really well with Virizion because it beats Virizion's best counters (Reuniclus and Lati@s). More importantly, you can change the weather to your favor so sun and rain teams don't have a free for all against you. And it lets Garchomp go for some sand veil hax.

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