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Gen 3 Trying to perfect a ddtar team (RMT)

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Lolcat, Dec 15, 2008.

  1. Lolcat

    Lolcat

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    Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 204 HP / 32 Atk / 56 Def / 216 SDef
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Body Slam
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Rest/Self Destruct

    I was getting owned by jolteon/zapdos leads so i made snorlax my team leader. Not sure on what to choose for the last move

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 16 Spd / 36 SAtk / 56 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Reflect
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt/Fire Punch
    - Wish

    Just support for the team, wishes sala and snorlax mainly. Reflect is to help against Swamperts/Metagross/Heracross/TTar mainly. Fire punch or Tbolt?

    Salamence (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SAtk
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power [Flying]
    - Rock Slide

    A little brute strength to keep my offense and defense balanced. Helps to kill off things here and there. Covers Jirachis weaks.

    Gengar (F) @ Leftovers ** Toby
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 236 HP / 76 Def / 68 Spd / 128 SAtk
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hypnosis/Destiny Bond
    - Ice Punch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Works pretty good, I wish it would do more though. I mean Double Statusing is nice, but i've seen some crazy gengar sets that are pretty cool. Might Try Destiny bond or something

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 240 HP / 136 Def / 24 Spd / 108 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Surf

    Status Absorber and Meta/Swampert/Tar/etc counter.

    Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def / 168 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Substitute

    DDTAR

    I tried to make a team so that every member in the team could take hits and still dish them back out and hopefully Set up DDTAR.

    Anyways, I know its standard but how can i make the team better? RMT


    *
    I made another version but i don't really like it but it works better :/:

    Snorlax/Celebi/Jirachi/Gyarados/DDTAR/Gengar

    This one basically covers the Suicune and Curselax problem i was having in the other team. Using Celerachi feels cheap but winning is what matters i guess.
  2. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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  3. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    Well, here's something you might think about:

    You could run Ice Punch on Jirachi over Tbolt. It will take care of Dugtrio switch ins and of course Salamence with a Reflect up. Your only trade off is your damage output to bulky waters. Suicune comes to mind. I'd say usually you could just run a high speed Suicune with Roar to solve this, but you lose sleep absorption, and without Spikes, Roar overall isn't that effective. If you could think of a way to solve this without making too many drastic changes, I'd say Ice Punch Jirachi is the way to go.
  4. Rubberbandman

    Rubberbandman

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    High speed High SAtk Cune with Surf/Roar/Stalk Umby?
  5. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    Without Spikes, that's just extra weight.
  6. Rubberbandman

    Rubberbandman

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    Then why not just Milo > Cune? It can absorb status and status back with a Toxi Stalk set.
  7. Lolcat

    Lolcat

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    i've changed the team a little after testing a ton of different strategies but still trying to keep the main goal of keeping DDTAR on the team so here is the revised version:

    Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 204 HP / 96 Atk / 56 Def / 12 SAtk / 140 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Curse
    - Flamethrower
    - Rest
    - Return

    the only server alive in netbattle doesn't have selfdestruct lax so i said what the hell and i'm trying this. Not gonna lie, i hate this so i will probably go back to mix lax with counter over selfdestruct.

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 36 Spd / 72 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Fire Punch
    - Psychic
    - Wish

    fire punch catches metas on the switch and still hits skarm/forry/maggy, passes wish around to everything

    Flygon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 140 HP / 148 Atk / 96 Def / 16 Spd / 12 SAtk / 96 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast
    - Rock Slide
    - Toxic/HP Bug/Hp Grass/Hp Ice

    TTar counter, actually lets that retarded snorlax work sometimes as long as i get rid of their ttar if they have one. I like toxic for 2 reasons: Suicune and Swampert. Though hp bug might be better for Celebi. Hp Ice for other flygons and salamences, HP grass for swampert. I have no idea what to choose help please.

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spd / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Thunderbolt

    Counters a lot of things mainly Gengars and Swamperts/Suicunes. Eats Status. Can someone suggest a better ev spread?

    Gengar (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 236 HP / 76 Def / 68 Spd / 128 SAtk
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Destiny Bond
    - Ice Punch
    - Thunderbolt
    - Will-O-Wisp

    Dbond is awesome and Gengar is my new Favorite pokemon in the world.

    Tyranitar (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Def / 172 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Substitute

    2nd favorite poke in the world

    Any ways i can improve this more? My goal is to make the BEST ddtar team possible
  8. Althouse

    Althouse

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    If you are just trying to weaken the opponent enough to set up DDtar, then you could use a lax without Rest. Eq, shadowball, fireblast, return/bodyslam/double edge, curse.....all are good options.

    The reflect/wish jirachi is really good. There are many options I would have you consider to use reflect/wish jirachi again.
    You could use psychic/thunder, psychic/cm, thunder(bolt)/ice punch, psychic/fire punch.

    Flygon would be good as a CB Flygon. You have 3 pokemon with a fire type move. It is more essential in D/P to use fire type moves, but in R/S/E, fire is not needed as much. Dont spread the EVs as much.

    I might actually go with a simple EV spread for Zapdos. Something like this:

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SDef
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Thunderbolt

    Snorlax is already a good special sponge.

    I can understand the WoW in the cause of setting up DDtar, but you may consider Giga drain on gengar for swampert.

    Sub on tar protects it, but using HP bug will give you better typing coverage. Its your choice. You may consider a DDtar with Lum Berry as long as you have reflect, wish, and WoW.

    Heracross can do some damage to your team if you are not prepared.
  9. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    The main thing, with TTar as a main sweeper, is to eliminate Swampert/metagross/skarm/claydol etc, and have DDTar come in on a Blissey or Regice(etc), after one of your pokemon feint. You should use Toxic or HP bug and Choice band for Flygon, pick one.
  10. Cruiselax

    Cruiselax

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    you cannot fully utilize ddtar's potential without spikes. the key to using ddtar is to weaken your opponent with spikes, then simply set up and sweep.

    with that being said, your team can do absolutely nothing with spikes on the field. sure, every one of your attacks hits spikers, but any decent player will find a way around it.

    tips-

    get a spiker, rapidspinner, and perhaps a status healer (forgot what the correct term was) because pokemon like weezing will have a blast putting status on you.
  11. Lolcat

    Lolcat

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    I generally don't have to kill their swampert/meta/skarm to unleash ddtar. Though claydol definitely makes me want to cry when i see one so i might put in hp bug on ttar.

    About the spikes comment 3 of my pokes are immune to it and i don't really see how forry/skarm are going to set up on anything on my team.

    I do like the idea of putting spikes on the team, but i hate skarmory and forretress, i tried using cacturne and that was pretty cool. I might try cloyster at least he can explode and not get trapped
  12. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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  13. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    Fixed. See if you can spot it.
  14. Rubberbandman

    Rubberbandman

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    I see it. You removed skarm because DDtar has no skarm weakness.
  15. Cruiselax

    Cruiselax

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    I dont recall any where that I said that he'll be using his ddtar to force switches. You're just rephrasing everything i said in a different way, nice going.
    Being standard or not is not the issue here, he wanted to make his team "so that it works" So i provied him advice on how to do so.

    How is status not a problem here? If he relys on only on pokemon such as snorlax to absorb status just because it has rest, other player will see it as a opputunity to set up.

    And that further proves my point, while his "status absorbers" are sleeping, theres a risk that the opponent might set up spikes.
  16. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    His status absorbers are a Snorlax and a Sleep Talking Zapdos. No Skarmory in their right mind wants to really take a chance on Spiking vs Zapdos, unless they're really in a bind to try and lay down Spikes. Snorlax is Snorlax, and Skarmory would try to setup Spikes on Snorlax in a normal situation anyway.
  17. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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  18. Minwu

    Minwu

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    The first team was better so I'll critique that one.

  19. Rubberbandman

    Rubberbandman

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    Why Aerial Ace > HP Flying? Aerial Ace is a 10 base drop in power while majority of Zapdos don't run max speed, or any speed for that matter.
  20. Cruiselax

    Cruiselax

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    And having "standards" is a bad thing? Some pokemon are standards for a reason, and that reason being that they work. If you think using pokemon that arent "Standards" makes you more creative, then I dont know what to say.

    ho ho,


    and....

  21. TheDuzzMaster

    TheDuzzMaster

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    That's nonsense. CB Salamence needs a Adamant Nature if it really wants to hit hard. Just use 30 / 30 / 30 / 31 / 30 / 30 and you will have HP Flying with max speed.

    No, as HeYsUp already tried to explain, this is an OFFENSIVE team. Blissey would only slow this team down. Imo he should keep BoomLax (if the server allows it).

    Having standards isn't a bad thing at all. Trying to change an Offensive team into a ''standard'' Defensive/Stall teams IS a bad thing.
  22. Cruiselax

    Cruiselax

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    I was merely pointing out that his team would work better with some supporting pokemon along his sweepers. A tropical scenario is that you attack, they wall, you switch, spikes takes your 25%.
  23. Lolcat

    Lolcat

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    The gengar EVS allows it to take a dd sala/gyara hp fly and ohko it back. People ALWAYS think they will ohko and they don't so it works. Also lets gengar eat random physical attacks after a willowisp. I don't know i've always used those evs on gengar and i put him on all my teams, works so far.

    I also did feel like the team with cune and sala was better. But i had a problem with countering other suicunes. HOwever even with zapdos and boomlax I'm STILL having problems countering suicune. At the very least I know i'm keeping Gengar, Boomlax, and DDTAR. I've also thought about fitting spikes in the team but it would make me use a pokemon that can't really do anything except spike so probably not.
  24. Minwu

    Minwu

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    My lead Zapdos does, and it's been outsped by others once in a while.
  25. cookie

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    If you set all of Salamence's EVs to 30 while keeping Speed at 31 you get HP Flying.

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