1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

DPP Ubers Turnabout Ubers! (Uber Lucario Team)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Theorymon, May 13, 2009.

  1. Theorymon

    Theorymon You have a fever. I prescribe more dead angels.
    is a Smogon IRC SOPis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,341
    The Team:[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction: I have been using this team since around March, and it has easily been my most successful team yet. This team is centered around Wobbuffet, and his ablilty to easily set up Lucario. I honestly thought this team was not going to work when I made it, as it has 3 set up sweepers, and I really do not check a lot of Pokemon directly. However, This team was sucessful enough to get me up to #4 on the ladder when I was actually laddering, and other players have also used this team succesfuly. I am posting this team because I want some last minute advice before I retire this team, as I really want to test new Pokemon in Ubers. I also named each Pokemon after Ace Attorney characters, because I found a funny sprite that made Lucario look like Phoenix Wright.

    [​IMG]
    Apollo Justice (Deoxys-e) @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Taunt
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Shadow Ball

    Ah, the standard suicide lead in todays Metagame. I choose Deoxys-Speed because as can be seen, this team really likes the support of Stealth Rocks and Spikes. If I see those pesky Darkrai leads, I often switch to Wobbuffet so they are locked into Dark Void, thus they are forced to struggle to death. If they Dark Pulse, I will switch Wobbuffet out and go to Lucario, who can do some serious damage to the next switch in with Close Combat. I have given Deoxys-S Shadow Ball just in case I lose the speed tie, so then this way I can 2HKO them. For most other leads I have encounterd, I just simply get down Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes. I named him after Apollo Justice because… I didn’t have another Pokemon to name after him =/
    ---
    [​IMG]
    Trucy Wright (Wobbuffet) (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 28 HP/252 Def/230 SDef
    Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Counter
    - Mirror Coat
    - Encore
    - Safeguard

    Wobbuffet is key to this teams success. Wobbuffet has several jobs that no other Pokemon can do for this team. Wobbuffet can often set up one of my sweepers by encoring moves such as Earthquake (though Life Orb Groudon’s hurt a hell of a lot). Wobbuffet will also revenge kill Scarfed Pokemon that attempt to stop Lucario’s sweep, such as Choice Scarf Dialga. Additionally, Wobbuffet can easily set up Giratina-o when I’m against stall teams, and rip them to shreds! Setting up Lucario is very easy with Wobbuffet, because Lucario has 4x resists to Bug and Dark, and sports a 2x resist to Ghost, all of which are Wobbuffet’s weaknesses. I choose Bold over Calm because this team does not have a direct way to deal with Rock Polish Groudon, thus Wobbuffet can act as a make shift revenge killer to that if I let it set up (which is not often). I named Wobbuffet after Trucy Wright, because she is Phoenix Wrights duaghter, and Wobbuffet supports him quite well. (Lucario is Phoenix Wright)
    ---
    [​IMG]
    Mia Fey (Giratina-o) @ Platinum Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 144 HP/112 Spd/236 SAtk/18 SDef
    Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Shadow Ball
    - Substitute

    Giratina-o is one of the most under rated Ubers, and it is also a very important Pokemon in this team. As some people know, Forretress ruins Deoxys-s suicide leads by Rapid Spinning them. It was a major inconvinece to this team, as I orignially had Rayquaza in this place. Meanwhile, Giratina takes a long time to set up if I opt to use a Calm Mind Rest Talk set, and this team really needed a Ground immunity. Thus, I tired out a Sub Calm Mind Giratina-o, as this team really needed an offensive spin blocker. Giratina-o has been the best offenisve spin blocker I have ever used. Giratina-o easily switches into Forretress, and can set up Calm Minds and a Subtitiute to become an increadbly hard to stop sweeper. If Forretress dares to use Payback, then I switch to Lucario and get a free Swords Dance. Giratina-o can also set up a Substitute when Wobbuffet encores a support Groudon's Earthquake.

    Giratina-o has the nice bonus of resisting all of Lucario's weaknesses, thus if someone tries to revenge kill Lucario by using Choice Scarf Dialga, I can switch into the Aura Sphere or Fire Blast, and let Giratina-o get free set up time. Most of all, Giratina-o can smash through stall teams, espcially when paried with Wobbuffet. Most stall teams only hope against Giratina-o is Latias. when Latias is eleimanted (usally by Lucario), most stall teams are doomed. Thanks to Levitate, Giratina-O is not effected by Toxic Spikes; thanks to the ghost typing, Blissey needs Ice Beam to even do much damage (it can't even break susbistutes after one Calm Mind), and Shadow Ball rips through Lugia.

    The evs were taken from the analysis. Giratina-o's evs allow it to out speed a Jolly Tyranitar (trust me this is for a good reason) and base 90 speed Ubers that don't invest in speed. The HP and Special Defense EVs allow Giratina to survive a Timid Palkia's Spaciel Rend, even after Stealth Rock! I have been consdering making Griatina-o Timid with enough speed to out run and Kill both Adamant Rayquaza and Adamant Lucario. I am not sure if this is worth losing the bulk Giratina-o has to offer though. I named Giratina-o after Mia Fey, as they are both ghostly =D.
    ---
    [​IMG]
    Miles Edgeworth (Groudon) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 112 HP/252 Atk/8 Def/136 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rock Polish
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw
    - Stone Edge

    Rock Polish Groudon works qutie nicely on this team, despite it argubly being the "weakest link" so to speak. After a Rock Polish, Groudon reaches an amazing 500 speed, out speeding even Jolly Choice Scarf Garchomp. Groudon is also the closest thing I have to a "Rayquaza check", its very shakey though, as a 2+ Dragon Claw from an adamant Rayquaza with Life Orb can still KO after Stealth Rock. Addtionally, Groudon provides a useful Elecrtic immuntiy, allowing me to set up on Choice Specs Kyogre's stuck on Thunder. Rock Polish Groudon is nearly unstopable with Stealth Rock and Spikes, as he is often able to KO damn near every offenisve Pokemon (except for oposing Groudons) in the tier after that support. The only commonly seen Pokemon that even have a chance of out speeding Groudon after the boost are Choice Scarf Mewtwo, Choice Scarf Darkrai, and Deoxys-s. Wobbuffet will easily revenge kill Mewtwos that Ice Beam Groudon, and Lucario can set up on Choice Scarf Darkrai. Deoxys-s is almost only seen as a suicide lead, thus I never have to worry about it. I named Groudon after Edgeworth because he is my other physical sweeper, and is also red like Edgeworths suit.
    ---
    [​IMG]
    Maya Fey (Palkia) @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Spacial Rend
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunder

    Palkia is the only real attempt to directly check any Pokemon, thus it is an important part of the team. Choice Scarf Palkia can out speed Darkrai, and revenge kill it. it can also outspeed Dragon Dance Rayquaza, who can easliy sweep this team without Palkia. Most of all, Palkia can live through Kyogre's Water Spout, thus I can force it or kill it with Thunder. I have to keep Palkia in hidding early game, because thanks to Wobbuffet's increased popularity, Palkia can be easily revenge killed. Unfortnatly, Palkia has a very hard time dealing with Swords Dance Rayquaza and Lucario, thus I have been considering investing in Palkia's defenses. I'm not sure if this is a good idea, so I need some advice on this. I named Palkia after Maya Fey because I thought naming Palkia after Pearl was too obvious.
    ---
    [​IMG]
    Phoenix Wright (Lucario) (M) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk/6 Def/252 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Extremespeed
    - Close Combat
    - Crunch

    Lucario is the star of the show! After a Swords Dance, Lucario has enough power to become a terror, even in the Uber tier! With Stealth Rock and Spikes support, Lucario has KOed most Kyogre, Rayquaza, Darkrai, Mewtwo and Palkia with a 2+ Extremespeed. Most Offensive Groudons are OHKOed by Close Combat, meanwhile Lucario has destrosied most support Groudons when they are under 70%. Lucario also 2HKOs Giratina with a 2+ Crunch, who will often not be able to Willowisp me thanks to Wobbuffet's Safeguard. Lugia is also screwed if it lacks refelct, as it is also 2HKOed. Even Roost won't save it, as defense drops will often kick in eventully. Forretress is also often OHKOed by a 2+ Close Combat.

    Now, I am sure some people are going to say "Why aren't you using Swords Dance Rayquaza instead?" There are a two main reasons for this. First and formost is Lucario's wonderful typing. Thanks to his Lucario's Fighting and Steel typing, Lucario only takes around 3% from switching in to Stealth Rock. This can be helpful, as it allows me to use Lucario to revenge Pokemon that are at low HP in emergencies. Lucario's typing also provides a useful set of reisitsances that work well with the team. For example, Lucario resists all of Wobbuffet's and Giratina-o's weaknesses, thus Wobbuffet can easily set up Lucario. Addtionally, Giratina-O can often switch into the assualts Choice Scarf Dialga trys to KO Lucario with (Aura Sphere and Fire Blast), and use the time to set up a Subistute thanks to its handy reistances. Lucario can also sweep weakened teams by use Swords Dance on a weakned Choice Scarf Palkia's Spcecail Rend, which is something that Rayquaza could never do (it does a massive 50% though). Choice Scarf Darkrais are easily set up on thanks to Lucario's 4x resistance to Dark Pulse.

    Secondly, Close Combat is extremly powerful. In fact, Lucario's Close Combat does more than Rayquaza's Dragon Claw after a Swords Dance! thus, Groudon can not just come in and destroy me unless it has a heavy defensive investment, and if it does then I switch to to Wobbuffet to set up Giratina-o.

    I named Lucario after Phoenix Wright, as he is obviously the star of the games (even in the 4th one)!

    Conclusion: Yes, this team does have some flaws that will be disscused in a moment, some of which seem very scary. However, this team has worked out amazingly for me. Hell, some people are saying I made Lucario somewhat popular with this team. I really don't know if thats true, but it sure is a confindence booster! So despite bearly having any checks whats so ever, I am often able to set up a sweeper before I am swept (as long as I am careful on what move Palkia chooses). I also was once #4 on the leaderboard with this team, so I guess I must of been doing something right here!

    Threat List: Huge threats will be in bold. I will list these in the order of their usage in April.

    Kyogre
    : The choiced sets are normally no problem, the scary Kyogres are the Bulky Rest talking ones with Calm Mind. My best bet is to sacrifice Groudon, and finish it off with Lucario. other wise, Palkia is normally my go to guy for Kyogre.

    Groudon: Rock Polish Groudon may seem scary, but the only Pokemon he can safely set up on is Palkia when I choose Thunder. Wobbuffet can also revenge kill it, as RP Groudon often lacks Swords Dance. If I don't want to risk that, I can make Wobbuffet encore an Earthquake (though it does huge amounts of damage) and set up Giratina-o. Swords Dancers are normally revenge killed by Palkia. Support Groudons can only 3HKO Giratina-o, while I can 2HKO with Dragon Pulse.

    Palkia: Palkia can be an unpredictable bastard, but thankfully he hasn't caused much problems for this team. Choice Scarf Palkia are usally killed by Wobbuffet, while ones without Choice Scarf are often revenge killed by my own Palkia.

    Darkrai: Darkrai is often dealt with easily if it is the Choice Scarf Lead, but if it has Nasty Plot, it can be a huge threat to this team. I normally deal with it by letting something take the sleep, and revnge killing it with Palkia. The fact that I have to do this is probably one of the teams biggest weaknesses. Thankfully, Darkrai will be hard pressed to stop Lucario or Groudon from sweeping.

    Rayquaza: Rayquaza is a huge threat to this team if it is the Swords Dancer. Groudon is my only real hope of stoping it if it sets up, as Palkia often dies to Extremespeed. Thankfully, Rayquaza can not stop any of the sweepers. However, because Rayquaza is such a huge threat, I will not use Fire Blast or Surf on Palkia untill I am sure its dead.

    Dialga: Like Palkia, Dialga is an unpredictble bastard. The Bulk Upers are normally handle by Groudon, while Choice Scarfers are revenge killed by Wobbuffet. Choice Specs Dialga can be a pain in the ass, as I am often forced to sacrifce a Pokemon to KO it with Groudon or Lucario. Thankfully, Choice Specs Dialga is not common.

    Mewtwo: Mewtwo, like Dialga and Palkia, is an unpredictble bastard. for the offensive sets, Palkia tends to revenge kill it, while Giratina-O has dealt with all of them but the Dual Screener.

    Deoxys-s:Ugh, I am just bolding Deoxys-s because I hate speed ties =/. If I lose the speed tie, I can 2HKO it with my own Deoxys-s's Shadow ball. then I have to hope that the taunt doesn't last too long.

    Wobbuffet
    :If Wobbuffet comes in at the right time, it can put an end to my Palkia and stop Groudon from sweeping. Thankfully, Wobbuffet can not stop sweeps from Lucario or Giratina-o.

    Garchomp: Garchomp is one of the few offensive Pokemon that has been able to stop Lucario so easily. I can normally beat Choice Scar ones with Wobbuffet, but Choice Band Garchomp is a very nasty surprise. I can also switch in Giratina-o if I predict an Earthquake. for non choice scarfed Garchomps, I can revenge kill then with Palkia.

    Scizor: Scizor has honestly never been a threat to me, as the wrost it does is revenge kil Groudon or Lucario after they have already done massive damage to the team. Groudon normally takes care of Scizor with no problems.

    Lugia: When Lugia is around, I can encore with Wobbuffet, and set up Giratina-o who doesn't care about refelct. Giratina-o in general tends to scare off Lugia.

    Blissey:The only Pokemon on the team that Blissey gives any trouble is Palkia. Giratina is able to set up on it, and Lucario OHKOs it.

    Giratina: Giratina can threaten Lucario and Palkia via willowisp, but I have often used him as set up time via Wobbuffet. if I encore Dragon Claw, I go to Groudon. if I encore Willowisp, I safeguard and go to either Giratina-o or Lucario.

    Forretress: Forretress is no problem at all with Giratina-o and Lucario. if it lacks Payback, Giratina-o spin blocks it and makes Forretress into set-up time. If it does have Pay Back, I can switch in Lucario and get a Swords Dance.

    Deoxys-A: I really don't have a safe switch in to this, which is why I bolded it. Deoxys-A tends to be very easy to revenge kill though, Lucario can use Extremespeed while Scarf Palkia outspeeds it.

    Latias: Latias is a huge threat to this team, simply because its very hard to revenge kill. While it doesn't normally stop sweeps, I am often froced to beat it with Lucario, which leaves him at extremly low health.

    Shaymin-s: Shaymin-s is a real pain in the ass. The Scarf leads have the potential to ruin my Deoxys lead, while the Sub Seeders are genarly evil. thankfully, I have not seen a non-lead Scarf Shaymin, so generally it is revenge killed by Palkia.

    Giratina-o:
    If Giratina-o sets up a Substitute, I know one of my Pokemon is going to die. I often break their subs with Groudon, and revenge kill with Palkia.

    Latios: Latios is basicly the same problem as Latias.

    Lucario:Ironicly, this team has huge issues with Lucario. If it ever gets free set up time, I am pretty screwed! Thankfully, Lucario really can not set up on a single Pokemon in this team. I just have to be careful about using Crunch on my Lucario, because if Wobbuffet encores it, I'm in big trouble! Of course, I can pull the same tactic as well.

    Tyranitar: Groudon normally anilates Tyranitar, while Lucario can revenge kill non dragon dance ones.

    Mew: Oh boy, Mew is a bastard to this team. if it pulls of a baton pass, I am pretty screwed. My best bet is to send in Giratina-o, and keep Shadow Balling it. this is because most of the Mews I saw taunted Giratina-o. thus I am able to 3HKO it when it has light screen. Other wise, thank god Mew isn't common!

    Metagross:Once again, Groudon destroys most Metagross I see. Choice Scar ones can be a pain in the ass, as they can stop Lucario sweeps. If Metagross switches in on Lucario, I will predict the Earthquake and switch in Giratina-o.

    Ho-oh: Ho-oh can be a pain in the ass without Stealth Rock. I can often get away with using Giratina-o to set up on it, since it walled most Ho-ohs I encountered. I can also revenge kill it with Groudon's Stone Edge.

    Skarmory: Skarmory can be a pain for one reason: it can stop Groudon from sweeping. I am genreally forced to withstand its whirlwinding untill I can Fire Blast it with Palkia. Skarmory is not stoping Lucario from sweeping often though.

    Ninjask:Ninjask is often a lead. what I usally do is tuant it with Deoyxs, and then switch to Giratina-o to set up on it.

    Manaphy: Manaphy can be a bit scary, since it can surive Lucario's extreme speed and kill it. Thankfully, Pallia often revenge kills it with Thunder.

    Special thanks to Diggeh and Seika of Court Records for making the Lucario Wright sprite!
  2. Revolution.Z

    Revolution.Z

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    262
    Cool Stuff theorymon. Not too much to actually comment on but just a few things to look at. With the Amount of Kyogres running around in the ubers tier it may be worth your while adding one of the lati bros to you team. Latios could be a replacement over your Giratina as it still has many of the same resistances. Another plus is with soul dew you in theory already have a CM under your belt as soon as you send it in so with a Sp. Def investment it could easily be a switch into Ogre. Draco Meteor on Soul Dew Latios hits a lot harder than you may think as well. Latias could also be a option as it takes hits from Kyogre even easier than Latios and not to metion many other sp atkers.

    Ah the formidable luke in Ubers. Maybe a sash there but thats just my preference. Also not too sure if this is a problem but the Palkia and Groudon combo could be a problem for you. Sun weakens the Surf power so if your opponent doesnt carry an Ogre then youve kinda ruined you palkia's Stab. Though you may say Fire Blast is gonna get powered up the amount of Dragon's and resists for that Fire Blast in ubers is incredible.

    Not too much to comment on the Great Theorymon
    and I feel out of place commenting on your team lol
    (I am Not worthy)

    Awesome Team and Keep it up

    SF(Strategy Focus)
  3. d2m

    d2m

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2009
    Messages:
    753
    This team relies extraordinarily on Palika and Wobbuffet. Once one of those dies, your team is rather screwed. Without Palika, NP Darkrai kills everyone else (it can void then NP on Wobbuffet). Without Wobbuffet, Rock Polish Groudon and several other threats can finish you off.

    You're also very weak to a subseed Shaymin-S. The only way you could deal with it is Encore on Wobbuffet, but even then, if it uses Air Slash it has the chance to flinch you to death. Luckily these are rather uncommon, so you should be fine. (Also lead Honchkrow weak :P)

    This team requires massive prediction to pull off, but that could really be said of any offensive team in ubers. It's rather solid, gj.
  4. Jibaku

    Jibaku Balance is a fool's master
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    6,266
    This team is beautiful, and therefore I can't say much
    With 4 HP and 76 Def EVs (322/255), Palkia is guaranteed to survive a +2 LO ES from Adamant Luke after two Stealth Rock damages. However, Palkia will need more defense to take on Adamant Ray's LO SD ES after one SR (with 322/256 Palkia has a 9/16 chance of surviving the ES).

    Well Luke gets 2HKOed by Soul Dew Dragon Pulse iirc, so good luck.

    A little recap on things:
    Timid on Giratina-O is pretty double edged. While you get the joy of outrunning Adamant Ray and other non Scarf base 90s, Latias can stop it as it loses power and Dragon Pulse OHKOes after Stealth Rock. Furthermore, Palkia OHKOes you with Spacial Rend. Pick your poison and decide the bigger threat.

    And speaking of threat Gira-O can run a Rest/Talk set if you need to stop CM bulky Ogres so badly, provided it doesn't have Ice Beam. With Groudon's sunlight, not even a +6 CH Surf from Kyogre can end Giratina-O. However, it is probably best to stay with the SubCMer as you don't quite want to lose Shadow Ball and Sub is an incredible utility.

    Umm about that...
    Unless you got Safeguard up, Giratina-O won't be liking burns from Scared Fire, and CB Sacred Fire can do near 50% to it. Which means with SR it'll get 2HKOed pretty often, factoring the chance of burn/maximum damage. Thankfully CB Ho-oh isn't all that common, but it does a pretty annoying amount of damage.

    With these little things said the team is really good and I can't fix anything because everyone seems too important xD.

    However, with the lacking bulk in the team, be prepared to predict a ton, since it does appear that you'll be sacking quite a bit to get rid of some stuff.

    But yes I like this team a lot :D

    Giratina blocks Rapid Spin

    PS: I'm stealing this team with minor edits
  5. panamaxis

    panamaxis Allons-y!
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Winneris a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,923
    The biggest weak I can see in your team if your need to rely on palkia for a huge amount of threats. The fact that you pretty much are forced to pick spacial rend everytime (unless they have a kyogre) to stop rayquaza from setting up is a pretty big inidicator of this.

    I can't really suggest any changes for this though as it will ruin the team structure, so I'll just suggest maybe adding a few more defensive EVs to groudon to always prevent rayquaza from OHKOing after SR with a +2 Dragon Claw? Unless those EVs are absolutely necessary for something.

    Great team man, like i said, you shouldn't have too many problems (although with your luck you probably will) the only thing that is really hurting you is your need to rely on palkia, but I can't really fix that without changing the whole team structure. Nice to see the team that popularised lucario.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)