UU Twin Dragons Rising [Peaked #4]

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Frozen Fate, Jun 7, 2013.

  1. Frozen Fate

    Frozen Fate

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    TWINS DRAGONS RISING
    (Proof and whatnot)
    [​IMG]

    Introduction
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Hello Smogon, UU has been good fun lately and I've had a great time playing it. As I was playing however I decided to see how one of my old ladder peak teams (#5) I believe would stack up against the current metagame. This was in fact a BW1 UU team so I had to adjust it slightly. I then took to the ladder and started laddering, it was a lot more successful then I anticipated, eventually topping out at 1954 ARCE. I admit I can take this team further but lack the motivation (since I've played like 40-50 matches already) in all honestly, I'd just like to see if improvements can be made. The current record is 42-3 I believe.

    What the team focuses on is hyper offense, pure and simple. Get the momentum going right off the bat and open up holes for either Raikou or Kingdra to sweep. If one fails, the others checks should be reasonably decimated to the point where it can sweep. There's little defensive core to lean on so I either crush the other team or get crushed, synergy is very important too as you'll see. Eh, here's the team.

    Overview​

    [​IMG]
    Mew
    Item: Normal Gem
    Ability: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (-SpA, +Spe)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Explosion
    - Magic Coat
    - Zen Headbutt

    Team Preview has generally killed the need for a dedicated lead however I've found that they can still be useful if played right. Especially for this team as I need the offensive momentum quickly. Mew's role is to get the rocks up, possibly prevent the opponent from doing the same and find lure something out to blow up on. Magic Coat is so handy because not only can you reflect SR/Spikes back at your opponent but Taunt which cripples leads like Froslass. Zen Headbutt provides reliable STAB and Explosion is simply for things like Snorlax/Umberon who take ~85% and factoring in SR means they are finished and Raikou and Kingdra can sweep easier. Or I just blow up on anything I deem a threat as a 375 power attack is hitting pretty much anything hard. Mew is always sacrificed early on and only saved if the opponent carries a tonne of Fighters. I simply need rocks and something eliminated and Mew excels at this. Not to mention the surprise factor is always cool. No one expects Magic Coat + Explosion.

    [​IMG]
    Heracross
    Item: Choice Band
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (-SpA, +Spe)
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    This is the best Heracross set in my eyes, Scarf is overrated and SD lacks speed CB hits like an absolute truck. Heracross is here to punch holes and break walls open for Raikou and Kingdra. Snorlax, Umberon and Empoleon are of note. He also absorbs status for me, particularly WoW and Toxic. To give you an idea of just how powerful this thing is, when burnt it can OHKO 252HP/252Def Cresseila after Rocks through a Tanga Berry. I always care to save Heracross because he can threaten so many UU Pokemon and he forms part of my stall defense.

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    Kingdra
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Modest (-Atk, +SpAtk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Surf
    - Rain Dance
    - Dragon Pulse

    One of my clean-up sweepers and arguably the best in the tier. After special walls are eliminated teams can literally crumble beneath Kingdra's feet (tail?), granted without the proper support Kingdra cannot sweep well but with it, Kingdra can outspeed and cleanup basically any weakened offensive team. Even special walls like Snorlax are hard-pressed to tank LO rain-boosted Hydro Pumps after SR and prior damage. What makes it so good in my eyes is that you can't revenge kill it without resorting to gimmicks. Scarf Mienshao can't outspeed this thing and that's probably the best and fastest revenge killer available. If Kingdra cannot sweep most of the time it can weaken Raikou's checks enough for him to sweep.

    [​IMG]
    Flygon
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly (-SpA, +Spe)
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - U-Turn
    - Stone Edge

    ScarfGon has a bad rap, it's honestly not that bad. It needs to be played as a check and a scout, spamming Outrage early-game is simply stupid. What Flygon is here for is to check things that get out of hand such as Raikou, Kingdra, weakened Scarfty, Victini, etc. Early game he is rarely brought out save to absorb a Electric-attack, scout with U-Turn or revenge-kill something. He also provides me with a back-up clean up sweeper if Raikou and Kingdra fail which is rare but possible against better players. I do dislike how weak it is especially compared to things like Scarf MienShao and it's Speed is just acceptable but the resistances it provides, immunity to entry hazards and having both Dragons simply earnt him the spot. He has not failed me...yet.

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    Chandelure
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (-Atk, +Spe)
    - Fire Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Energy Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting] / Substitute

    Chandelure is my spinblocker in some sense but more importantly he's also here to punch holes and to help synergy wise. Things like Scarf Mienshao give me trouble at times and Mew/Lure are my defense. He's also useful for luring out walls like Umberon/Snorlax for Heracross, I can make the double-switch for these and then predict accordingly. For Umberon I can even opt to spam Fire Blast as it cannot take a LO boosted Fire Blast well at all after SR. The rest of his moveset is simply for coverage, Shadow Ball helps immensly especially if I predict a Victini/Cofarg switch-in correctly. Thinking of running Substitute over HP Fighting to ease up prediction against Honchkrow since HP does jackshit to Snorlax anyway.

    [​IMG]
    Raikou
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (-Atk, +Spe)
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute

    This here is the MVP of the team. Raikou is bar none the best special sweeper in UU. With Heracross and Chandelure weakening his checks, once Raikou comes out it's time to wreck shit. Even if Raikou fails I can always rely on Kingdra to finish it off, Sub + LO kills him fast but it's simply needed to ward off status/revenge killers and it's one of my main ways to avoid Honchkrow. Raikou can be brought out early-game but only as a lure, rarely do I use him at all at the beginning. If I have to choose between sacrificing this or Kingdra though I usually pick the former, Raikou is good but it simply lacks the speed and power Kingdra gets after set-up which is why although he's my MVP his main purpose is really to weaken Kingdra's checks and just do a tonne of damage on top of that.

    Conclusion​

    Double switches and predictions, this team thrives on them and that's why I feel a good player using this team can do pretty well against any type of team. If played well however, it's a simple team. Rocks -> Wallbreakers (Chandelure/Heracross) -> Raikou -> Kingdra/Flygon. Generally you'll have to mix it up but the intent is always the same. Anyways hope you enjoy and please rate, I know it's not perfect.

    Importable​

    Show Hide
    Kingdra @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Surf

    Heracross @ Choice Band
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    IVs: 30 Atk / 30 Def
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake

    Mew @ Normal Gem
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Explosion
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Magic Coat

    Flygon @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Jolly Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge

    Chandelure @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Fire Blast
    - Shadow Ball
    - Energy Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]

    Raikou @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Substitute
  2. Crimson

    Crimson

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    I think I may have played you before when you were using this team. Cool team. I have a couple suggestions though:

    I feel you should use HP Grass over Ice on Raikou. It gives you a more reliable move against the likes of Swampert and Rhyperior that would otherwise slow Raikou down. It allows Raikou to take them out and weaken something else vs. slightly weakening them and hoping Kingdra can kill (in case of Swampert). The things you have HP Ice for can be handled with Kingdra after Rain Dance is in play or Flygon.

    Beware of Scarf Mienshao.
  3. Frozen Fate

    Frozen Fate

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    Rhyperior and Swampert get absolutely decimated by CBCross, Chandulure and even Kingdra so I prefer pseudo Boltbeam for Raikou because of the superior coverage.

    Yes, Scarf Mienshao is a pain. I either
    - Get rain up and outspeed when MienShao is not in play.
    - Have Raikou behind a Sub
    - Keep Mew/Chandelure alive.
    - Have Heracross on good health.
  4. Hynan

    Hynan

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    Im sorry but this team have a lot of weaknesses, so far to be good. The fact that you peaked #4 doesnt mean so much , you can do that now with any regular team, its just 1950 so, its not that hard.
  5. Frozen Fate

    Frozen Fate

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    Well that was constructive, at least let me know what weaks you found.
  6. exotic

    exotic

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    Jul 31, 2012
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    Nice team dude.

    But you have a serious problem taking Brave Birds and Hurricanes. Cb Crobat ko's every pokemon on your team except Raikou and Mew, who are 2HKOd. You could use Zapdos over Raikou to take those hits better. The set I'm thinking about is the agility set.

    Zapdos@Life Orb
    180HP/252SpAtk/76Spe Modest
    -Agility
    -Thunderbolt
    -HP Flying
    -Roost

    The speed evs are up to preference.
  7. Exbo

    Exbo

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    Suggestions: I'm bored right now sorry for being sloppy

    I don't think Stone edge covers something important on Flygon. Have you considered Fire punch? Maybe Fire Blast? even roost... I don't think SE hits anything important

    Does Magic coat work at all on Mew? I would use Azelf With SR, Explosion and any combination of Screens, U-Turn and Zen Headbutt.

    Have you tried mixed Kingdra? RD/Surf/Draco/Outrage. Although that changes your game a bit because now Kingdra would be more of a wallbreaker than a sweeper.

    ~~~~~~

    Awesome team overall! I love Banded Heracross :3
  8. Laga

    Laga Thank u based danish pastry
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    This team looks overall like a team that is pretty good, though if a player gets to put something you have on your team to sleep, your momentum is kinda dead. Therefore, I think you should try Sleep Talk over Earthquake on Heracross. That's all I can see wrong at this moment, so keep using the team :]
  9. Exbo

    Exbo

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    Ahhh wanted to say that one too! Sleep talk over stone edge is better, imo. You won't stay in against any flying type anyway when you're asleep, since there is a 26,66% chance to hit it.
  10. Frozen Fate

    Frozen Fate

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    Cheers but Zapdos lacks the sheer power Raikou provides. I dislike Crobat yes but Flygon has a 75% of KOing with SE after SR. It needs Adamant to OHKO Kingdra/Flygon and if it is Adamant. Raikou can outrun it and KO with TBolt.

    The aforementioned Crobat is one. Flying types in general without resorting to Outrage. Also Fire Punch is a 4HKO on Bronzong so yeah not that useful.

    Yep, it cripples leads. Everyone expects LeadElf but not lead Mew.

    I'll see, I've been thinking about Sleep Talk. The loss of coverage sucks though.

    Thanks for the rates.
  11. Frozen Fate

    Frozen Fate

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  12. silenced

    silenced

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    I'm rather concerned about how threatening cofagrigus is to this team in general. While the defensive variant doesn't fare too well, either activating guts/flash fire on hera/chandy respectively, it does get quite the number of switch in opportunities. The OTR variant however I rank as a massive threat, being able to set up on flygon (not on U-turn of course), mew, and heracross, and then proceed to inflict heavy damage, or at least stuff you up due to speed reversal under trickroom.

    I can't think of too many ways to fix this without killing team momentum though. I suppose it might be worth considering night slash on heracross if only to deter it from thinking it has an easy time switching.

    If you've gotten to 4th in the rankings, you don't really need this said, but just in case, beware giving DD Scrafty set up opportunities. Those errant stone edges loom as a problem above all else.

    I can't think of fixes, not that you overly need it, but I feel it worth mentioning these potential threats anyway, just in case they have been overlooked or I'm missing how you outplay them.
  13. Frozen Fate

    Frozen Fate

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    Cofagrigus gets maimed by pretty much any attacker besides Mew and Heracross so I never run into much trouble with him.

    DD Scrafty loses to Heracross, Raikou outspeeds even at +1 and Flygon deals 50% with Outrage so I rarely have trouble with him.
  14. dinodino56

    dinodino56

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    Nice team you have there Frozen Fate, well looking at your team it seems like other Choice Scarf Flygons seem to be a problem for your team. Though you have your own if you lose the speed Tie it can KO most pokemon on your team. Heracross and Mew are the only ones who are not KO, but Heracross cannot switch in because it is 2HKO and Mew is a Suicide Set which means it would probably not be alive which makes Flygon a bigger threat. I would replace Mew with Bronzong because you still set up Hazards and you wall Flygon.

    Here is the Set that i think would help:
    [​IMG]
    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Gyro Ball

    With this set you 2hko Flygon setup stealth rock and have recovery.It is a wierd set, but sometimes you have to be creative.

    LOL well i hoped i helped with your team and good luck =)

    P.S:You might not have to run Rest Talk, but if you want recovery i recommend running this set.
  15. Pocket

    Pocket Nyanko Sensei >:3
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    Good team, Frozen Fate. Not much to say here, since this team is overall solid.

    I highly suggest changing Kingdra's nature to Timid, though. Rain teams can destroy this team - with Timid, at least you have the best chance to counter-sweep these teams.

    You may also want to try Reckless Scarf Mienshao of your own over Flygon. You admittedly lose on some key resistances, such as Fire- and QuakeSlide, though. It does give you a fighting chance late game when everything is weak enough to be knocked out by HJK, where you can at least rely on a speed tie to take out the opposing Mienshao.

    I personally prefer Swords Dance Heracross over CB Heracross - mainly because the former is better suited for breaking through stall, which can play around CB Hera's resistances. For example, Umbreon / Snorlax + Gligar team can be annoying to CB Hera, whereas SD Hera can rip through them. You can even attach a Salac Berry so Heracross poses a threat late-game once it health is low enough (and bluff a Scarf set lol).

    I also support your move in giving Chandelure Substitute - make sure to give it Leftovers, though. Leftovers is also the best item on SubCM Raikou, but since Raikou isn't your end-game sweeper, I guess Life Orb works? Regardless, Leftovers is worth a try, if you haven't given it a shot.

    You can also test out Volt Switch > Substitute that may work better on this team - it lets you switch into Heraross vs Snorlax, Umbreon, etc when Raikou isn't ready to set up Calm Minds early game.
  16. TheBolo

    TheBolo

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    Nice team, the one change I would make on it would be to replace Stone edge with fire punch on Flygon. I too run a scarfed Flygon and Fire punch just does more over all for it and still covers the ice weakness.
  17. GucciCondom69

    GucciCondom69

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    Solid team indeed and to be honest it is hard to edit this without potentially ruining the teams synergy with your respective play-style.

    I feel that once you lose momentum you have trouble gaining it back and lead SD sash Weavile can potentially 6-0 your team straight.

    Opposing lead Aerodactyl/Frosslass/SD Weavile look to be really annoying to fight against as you have nothing to out speed and OHKO them, and they can easily scout on what set you are using while being able to set up hazards/SD. The only real option you have is to go for turn 1 magic guard and hope that they taunt.

    Honestly, players see Mew and 99.9% of them are going to taunt, but against those leads they don't care because they either A) have sashes/immune to explosion, or B) don't mind staying in for two turns as you have to take damage in order to stop them/break their sash.

    To remedy this try changing Magic coat on Mew to U-Turn and swapping Flygon for Scarf Mienshao.

    Mienshao @ Choice scarf
    Jolly (252 Speed/252Atk)
    Reckless/Regenerator
    U-Turn
    Stone Edge
    Hi-Jumpkick
    Aerial Ace

    Although you lose out on resistances, you gain a powerful revenge killer and a solid way of getting rid of lead sashers if you choose to go with U-turn on Mew. U-Turn is good on Mew because if you choose to not blow up early you don't have to hard switch, and if they taunt turn one then you are free to revenge kill.

    Another problem you slightly have is CB Snorlax coming in on your Special attackers and you having to make the choice of either letting him kill them or making a risky switch to Heracross /Chandalure.

    Switching Raikou to Specs is something to consider as this allows you to keep the momentum with volt switch. If played right it can give your CB Heracross a lot more opportunities to do CB Heracross things.
  18. epikkyogre78

    epikkyogre78

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    Hello there. You have...an AMAZING TEAM. Literally, when I was using it, I thought that no team or Pokémon could possibly beat THIS kickass team!! ...But, I was wrong.

    You have a HEEEUUUUUUUUGGGGEEEEE WEAKNESS to Honchkrow. You have zero priority on your team, which means Honchkrow can Sucker Punch and Brave Bird your Pokémon all day, and you can't do a thing about it. To help remedy this, I highly agree with Pocket and RNG's suggestion, to replace Flygon with Mienshao. This gives you a faster, more powerful revenge killer and late game cleaner. It also helps you against your Honchkrow weakness because a +1 Sucker Punch shouldn't do too much damage to Mienshao because it resists the move, while Mienshao can OHKO in return with HJK.
    Also, that SubCMLOwhatever Raikou seems REALLY out of place. I highly suggest changing his set to the Life Orb set.
    Raikou @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power Ice / Grass
    - Extrasensory
    - Volt Switch
    This gives you a great momentum-grabber and late game cleaner. Also, now Raikou won't die so easily to hazards, making Substitutes, and LO recoil.
    Or, you could try the Choice Specs set. (Insert same moves, EVs, etc.)

    All in all this is a great team, and to be honest, it's really hard to edit, because its obviously amazing. Please implement my edits, ESPECIALLY THE ONE ABOUT MIENSHAO AND THE HONCHKROW WEAKNESS. Thank you for making this team, it has been a pleasure looking at it and finding out how it could be better. ;)
  19. MewTheDestroyer

    MewTheDestroyer

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    I'd suggest using Stall Breaker Mew instead of Suicide lead, just because Normal Gem Mew is horrendously bad.

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