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Twin Specs - a CAP RMT

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by zarator, Oct 28, 2009.

  1. zarator

    zarator ^_^
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor Alumnus

    Mar 12, 2008
    Since I already used this team extensively, and Colossoil seems to be a major hindrance to it (more of a nail in the coffin than anything), I decided to retire it. But, after all, it is the team which brought me up to the peak of the CAP leaderboard for a good number of days, so I thought that, rather than throw it in the bin, it would have been more appropriate to make a RMT out of it. Feel free to express any kind of comment and/or criticism! (what are you supposed to do in a RMT, anyway?^^)

    Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
    Serene Grace - Adamant nature
    EVs: 84 HP/252 Atk/176 Spe
    • Trick
    • Stealth Rock
    • Iron Head
    • U-turn

    I used to employ Metagross as a lead, but I hated to get the short end of the stick against Starmie leads, which seem to be quite popular in the CAP server. However, I still needed a Steel-typed Pokémon in this slot, since, as you will see at the end of the RMT, I do not have many answers against Dragon attacks. So, my eyes finally glanced at Jirachi, and I did not get disappointed.

    This lead is a good mix of bulkyness and utility, which allow me to find uses for it even later in the match. 176 Spd EVs, combined with the Scarf, grant me 418 Speed, enough to outspeed Choice Scarf Heatran. 252 Atk and Adamant nature allow Jirachi to pack quite the punch... err, head^^ and the remaining EVs are put in HP to ease a bit the switch-ins into Dragons and what not. Trick is a good opening move at times, ruining the momentum of some leads if they decide to go for Stealth Rock, but I try to keep the Scarf as long as I can for 2 reasons:
    1) I need Trick to fight on an even foot against most Stall teams, and I can't allow some useless Pokémon to get it when I need to cripple something else.
    2) Jirachi is a good check against a wide array of set-up sweepers. Despite Steelbeing a bad attacking type, Iron Head's 60% flinch chance allow me to weaken and even kill a lot of foes (even Steel resistant ones)

    U-turn is maybe the crux of the set. It turns the table against non-Scarf Starmie leads (at least, compared to Metagross), and not only it gets a supereffective hit, but also keeps the momentum going for my team. between Jirachi and Kitsunoh (read below), U-turn allow me to hold initiative and at the same time weaken the opposition - especially when Spikes and/or Steal Rock are down.

    Speaking of Stealth Rock, I rarely lay it down at the start of the match, unless I just Tricked the opposing lead. Generally, unless I desperately need them up (for example, if a Salamence is harassing me somehow), I prefer to wait later in the match, when I already throw the Choice Scarf away. Also, since my sweepers have little fear of airborne foes, Spikes are generally the priority.

    To sum it up, Jirachi gets me momentum early on, absorbs Dragon-type attacks, keeps in check the oppositions, disables threatening walls and set up Stealth Rock when the time is right. An awesome lead all around.


    Arghonaut @ Leftovers
    Unaware - Adamant nature
    EVs: 252 HP/36 Atk/220 Def
    • Recover
    • Waterfall
    • Revenge
    • Thunderpunch
    Since my team has a grand total of four choice users, I needed a defensive behemoth able to ward me off of set-up sweepers. Arghonaut came obviously to my mind, thanks to its fantastic ability which neuters otherwise threatening sweepers like Dragon dance Gyarados. The EVs are fairly standard, so I will not waste too much time on them. Recover is a natural choice, and allow Arghonaut to stick around for a long time (basically, as long as I do not decide to sacrifice him). Waterfall and Revenge are solid STABs, and coming off that impressive 110 base Atk, they hurt even with such a little EV investment. Since I have no other answer to Gyarados, I opted for Thunderpunch. With the EVs listed above, Arghonaut can comfortably take a Bounce (ok, not so comfortably, but it is still a supereffective 85BP move coming off 383 or 349 Atk) and OHKO with Thunderpunch. The Water/Fighting/Electric combination leave me in a bit of trouble against Latias, but that's why you have 5 other Pokémon on your team. Arghonaut already stops so many threats - Gyarados, Scizor and Tyranitar to name a few - that I could hardly ask him any more.

    Fidgit @ Leftovers
    Vital Spirit - Timid nature
    EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
    • Spikes
    • Rapid Spin
    • Earth Power
    • Encore
    Spikes are a common tool on stall teams in every tier, but they can be very useful for offense too. Unfortunately, most offensive Spikers are too frail or underpowered to be really useful and dependable during the match in OU. However, CAP has the luxury of enjoy Fidgit's presence. Fidgit is an amazing Pokémon, able to support the team in a miriad possible ways. Since I felt the need for Spikes to support my sweepers, Spikes are an obvious choice. Encore is a great boon, and allow me to gain free turns and check some Calm Mind sweepers that arghonaut cannot handle like Sub-CM Jirachi (assuming I come in on anything but Psychic/Flash Cannon/HP Ground - I said check after all, not counter). Rapid Spin is crucial, since my team switches around a lot, and with Stealth Rock putting my sweep on a timetable, I lose a lot of win chances. Earth Power is a solid STAB and can be employed in a pinch thanks to that 339 Spd. I contemplated the possibility of using Shadow Ball for Ghosts who predict Rapid Spin, but I sticked to Earth Power. I'm open to suggestions on this topic, though.

    Kitsunoh @ Choice Scarf
    Frisk - Jolly nature
    EVs: 80 HP/252 Atk/176 Spe
    • U-turn
    • ShadowStrike
    • Ice Punch
    • Thunderpunch
    You cannot leave home without a Spin blocker if you wish to use Spikes, especially on CAP where Spinners like Fidgit and Starmie are everywhere. This place was once held by Revenankh - by far the best bulky Spin blocker in my opinion - but seeing that Revenankh left me too wide open to a lot of dangerous threats my team could not handle, I needed an offensive Spin blocker. Unfortunately, the only truly offensive Spin blocker in OU is Gengar (Rotom never fit my taste, probably), and Gengar isn't exactly the paragon of bulkyness. But then I glanced Kitsunoh, and I realized how many things it could offer to me. Another Steel type (with the ability to murder most Dragons without hesitations) was invaluable. If you add the scouting potential of Frisk and ShadowStrike to the mix, you have quite the good Pokémon into your hands.

    The EVs need a little explaination. 176 Spd with a Jolly nature and Choice Scarf allow Kitsunoh to outspeed the +100 Speed group even after a speed boost, giving me the chance to revenge kill Dragon Dancers should something go wrong with Arghonaut. 252 Atk is a necessity, and 80 HP soften a bit the hits Kitsunoh is doomed to withstand. ShadowStrike is basic STAB and slays Latias and Rotom above others. U-turn is a great scouting move and allow me to control the flow of the match, and Thunderpunch and Ice Punch are here for revenge killing purposes.

    Stratagem @ Choice Specs
    Levitate - Timid nature
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe
    • Paleo Wave
    • Energy Ball
    • Flamethrower
    • Earth Power
    Saying this thing is a hard hitter is a gross understatement. Specsgem is among the most ferocious Special Attackers the CAP metagame has to offer, able to plow through almost everything non resistat to its STAB bar Blissey. Just to make an example, 252HP/0 Sdef Suicune is 2HKOed by Paleo Wave, and this is without any entry hazards. When you start taking Spikes and Stealth Rock into account, things get much worse. Even Blissey, if she comes in with 75% around of its health (before counting Spikes and Stealth Rock) faces a clean 2HKO. Paleo Wave is the main responsible for this massacre, and it is the very proof of what X-Act said in the past about Special Rock moves being the most dangerous into the Standard environment. Flamethrower and Earth Power get good coverage alongside Paleo Wave, and kill every Steel type attempting to soak up my assault (incidentally, a lot of the OU steels, like Heatran, Scizor, Forretress and Skarmory, are neutral to Rock and get mudered by Paleo Wave anyway). What is left (Swampert, Flygon and so on) is taken by Energy Ball. In short, nothing can switch safely into this thing besides Blissey, and when she falls, the teams often meet a bitter demise.

    Latias @ Choice Specs
    Levitate - Timid nature
    EVs: 4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spe
    • Dragon Pulse
    • Surf
    • Thunderbolt
    • Trick
    At this point, some of you may have noticed an Infernape weakness. You may also ask yourselves if Stratagem needs a sweeping partner, able to pick off where he eventually gets. There is only an answer to all these questions, and it is Latias. Thanks to that magnificient Dragon STAB, seasoned with 110 base Special Attack and Speed, Latias can sweep unprepared teams very swiftly. Her natural bulkyness also comes in handy against pesky Heatran and Infernape. Dragon Pulse is an obvious STAB, and packs quite the same amount of power yielded by Stratagem's Paleo Wave. Again, support from Spikes and Stealth Rock turn this move into a deadly tool of destruction. Surf and Thunderbolt hit everything else for solid damage, and allow me to severely maim incoming Pursuiters like Scizor and Tyranitar as long as my prediction skills are up to the challenge. Trick is really the selling point: with the proper guesswork, I can disable an opponent special wall for the remainder of the match, leaving the opposing team wide open to Stratagem's fierce onslaught.

    So, here is the strategy: whenever I can, I bring in safely Stratagem or Latias (Levitate and three Ground weak Pokémon help a lot) and fire off some quick devastation with their impressive power, falling back to my defensive core when I need to switch out. Past the early game, I try to lay down those Spikes, detect the potential stoppers to my special sweepers and focus my atempts on disabling them. Then, I let the rape begin, plain and simple. Obviously, this team is not without its weaknesses. I will compile a threat list soon, but let me assure you in advance that Starmie and Rotom are a pain in the ass to this team, as well as Wispy Kit to a lesser extent. And a well played Blissey (i.e. with Spin support) is tough to take out without a well predicted Trick. Anyway, rate away!
  2. zarator

    zarator ^_^
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor Alumnus

    Mar 12, 2008
    Threat List (black = negligible threat, yellow = moderate threat, red = serious threat)

    On the defensive:

    [​IMG] Abomasnow: Hail is a nuisance, but aside from that, Abomasnow has little business trying to come into Stratagem and Latias deadly STABs.

    Arghonaut: It may slow down Stratagem, but Latias has little problems to come in and retaliate, aa long as I do not walk into Ice Punch

    [​IMG] Blissey: You know you will have trouble with Blissey when Stratagem + Latias is your attacking duo. Of course, I have may ways to beat her (mainly entry hazard support and/or Trick) but a skilled player will definitely cause me headaches with this thing.

    [​IMG] Bronzong: If I predict correctly I can dispatch it with little effort, but the fact that it can soak up both Paleo Wave and Dragon Pulse efficienty can become annoying at times, especially with Wish support from something like Blissey or Fidgit.

    [​IMG] Celebi: Standard 252HP /0 SpD Bold Celebi has a hard time taking Stratagem and Latias attacks, especially with Spikes taking their toll on the switch in. It may trouble Arghonaut, though.

    [​IMG] Cresselia: Even with those Uber defenses, Cresselia cannot take on Stratagem and Celebi as boldly as her nature of choice would suggest. The lack of reliable recovery only eases my job of taking her down. Moreover, she's also a perfect U-turn target.

    Cyclohm: Defensively, Cyclohm can do little to stop me. Stratagem (just with Paleo Wave) and even Fidgit can comfortably 2HKO it, and Latias annihilates it with Dragon Pulse. A bit tough to come into it though.

    [​IMG] Dusknoir: Lack of resistances really hurt him here. It is 2HKOed by most of Stratagem and Latias moves.

    Fidgit: With proper prediction I can take him out with Surf or Earth Power, and since most Fidgit lack any attack besides Earth Power, I can abuse Levitate to my heart's content. However, the sheer amount of support Fidgit brings to the table - Hazard/Wish support and especially Rapid Spin - troubles me very often.

    [​IMG] Forretress: Resistances may save him at times, but neutral attacks (especially Stratagem's Paleo Wave) destroy him swiftly. And Kitsunoh's neutrality to Dark and resistance to Steel help him to stop Rapid Spin attempts.

    [​IMG] Gliscor: Gliscor's average Special Defense and neutrality to both Paleo Wave and Dragon Pulse means it cannot trouble me most times, barring unfortunate Sand Veil hax.

    [​IMG] Gyarados: Defensive Gyarados often means Rest/Sleep Talk/Waterfall/Roar. Which means Latias bait. And Stratagem, albeit takes a serious risk coming in, cannot be stopped by this thing, thanks to that supereffective Paleo Wave.

    [​IMG] Heatran: It can't hurt Latias effectively, and it cannot come into Stratagem safely. I never had problems with this on the defensive.

    [​IMG] Hippowdon: Resistance to Rock is a nuisance but even if resisted, Paleo wave hurts if I have Spikes support. Obviously it has no business with Latias barring Thunderbolt.

    [​IMG] Jirachi: Pretty much in the same boat with Bronzong. The good news are that Jirachi is vulnerable to Earth Power. The bad news are that, between the wide movepool and especially Wish, it isn't certainly a slocuh in the defensive department. Anyway, defensive variants of Jirachi are quite uncommon.

    [​IMG] Latias: Paleo Wave is a 2HKO, and if opposing Latias carries HP Fire, mine is granted to outspeed it and proceed to the kill with Dragon Pulse. However, the fast speed combined with that vicious Dragon STAB can be annoying if it comes in after a kill.

    [​IMG] Nidoqueen: "Why Nidoqueen?" you may ask? Well, I encountered it quite a few times on CAP, especially on Hail teams, so I thought it deserved mention. Luckily, despite the Rock resistance, most Nidoqueen specialize (like pretty much everything else out there) on physical Defense, so it can't withstand for too long even the resisted Paleo Wave. Against Latias' Surf and Dragon Pulse she obviously falters.

    [​IMG] Porygon2: An easy foe to face. Lack of resistances play against him despite reliable recovery. Not difficult to 2HKO, especially with hazard support.

    Pyroak: Stratagem outright destroys it with Paleo Wave. Latias takes little from its moves and 2HKOes with Dragon Pulse most times.

    Revenankh: It may try to soak up a couple hits, especially from Stratagem, but it can't do a lot after as long as I have Arghonaut and/or Fidgit on my side. Kitsunoh also comes in handy.

    Rotom-A: Most of them are physically defensive, meaning that they can't come in without risk a 2HKO from Stratagem and Latias STABs. But since I lack a reliable switch in to it, I may incur into casualties if it comes in after a kill.

    [​IMG] Skarmory: Paleo Wave and Flamethrower spell instant doom for the steel bird, and even in Latias case, the only move it can really hope to switch into safely (somehow) is Dragon Pulse.

    [​IMG] Snorlax: Too light compared to Blissey. The fact that most of them (barring Curse variants which I handle differently) do not invest a lot into Special Defense only helps me further. Stratagem and Latias high powered STABs are too much for him when you take into account even just Stealth Rock or a layer of Spikes.

    [​IMG] Suicune: Suicune suffers pretty much the same problem of a lot of other Pokémon out there: since it is almost forced to run a full physically defensive EV spread, it tastes a 2HKO from both of my sweepers. And no, I'm not talking about Energy Ball and Thunderbolt. I'm talking about Paleo Wave and Dragon Pulse.

    [​IMG] Swampert: Trickier than Suicune thanks to the Rock resistance and Electric immunity, but the lack of Rest (on most of them) mean that I just have to weaken him on the switch ins.

    [​IMG] Tentacruel: Despite that high Special Defense, lack of reliable recovery helps me wear him down in the long run. Besides, I don't mind Toxic Spikes that much, since only Arghonaut is vulnerable to it and I have Fidgit to remove them.

    [​IMG] Vaporeon: What I said above for Suicune holds true for Vaporeon too.

    [​IMG] Walrein: Tough to take down in the Hail with Latias, but that's why I have Stratagem. If it gets cocky about Substitute I can Encore it with Fidgit.

    [​IMG] Zapdos: Stratagem kills him on sight, and unless it runs a specially defensive EV spread, Latias has an easy time with it too.

    On the offensive

    [​IMG] Aerodactyl: Most of them are leads, but whether they are leads or not, Arghonaut handles them easily. Even if they have Aerial Ace.

    [​IMG] Azelf: Jirachi and Kitsunoh do a good job checking it. If I predict a Fire Blast, I go to Stratagem.

    [​IMG] Breloom: Fidgit handles it easily as long as it avoids Seed Bomb.

    [​IMG] Celebi: Offensive versions of Celebi can be taken care of with an intelligent use of U-turn and Latias.

    Cyclohm: Dragon and Electric gets unresisted coverage against my team, and since I do not have a good answer to both Thunderbolt and Dragon Pulse I may incur into a good deal of trouble. The same could be said for Azelf, but Azelf does not have the staying power wielded by Cyclohm.

    [​IMG] Dragonite: If someone has a good counter to Dragonite not named Cresselia, I'm all ears. Generally, like against Salamence, predictions and Stealth Rock are the best weapons.

    [​IMG] Electivire: Nothing can switch in safely, but much easier to play around than Dragonite, as long as it does not get Motor Drive. If that is the case, I may have some trouble, but Kitsunoh's ShadowStrike generally can kill him if it's not at full health.

    [​IMG] Empoleon: Kitsunoh checks SubPetaya versions nicely.

    [​IMG] Flygon: As long as it plays with U-turn it's nothing more than an annoyance. When it decides to use its STABs, I can either revenge kill it with my steels or enjoy a free turn of rampage with my sweepers.

    [​IMG] Gengar: Luckily it dies fast, because this thing is a pain. Nothing on my team comes in safely, and it can do a number to my team if it sticks around for too long.

    [​IMG] Gliscor: If it's a sweeping variant, Arghonaut does a good job at stopping it. If it's the pure Baton Passer, Arghonaut makes a gain a good check, since it can hit it hard with Waterfall, weaken the receiver (Metagross most times), and let Kitsunoh revenge kill it.

    [​IMG] Gyarados: Thanks to Thunderpunch, Arghonaut stops every variant of Gyarados.

    [​IMG] Heatran: Again, Arghonaut is an excellent answer, as well as Latias.

    [​IMG] Heracross: Arghonaut stops Scarf variants, while my entire team outspeed the others.

    [​IMG] Infernape: I rely on Latias to beat it. I can also revenge kill it with Kitsunoh or Stratagem (or Fidgit, depending on whether or not it runs max speed).

    [​IMG] Jirachi: Calm Mind variants are checked by Fidgit (which can come in on Substitute, Calm Mind or Thunderbolt and Encore freely). Physical ones can be played around, especially since most of them are choiced.

    [​IMG] Jolteon: A tricky foe to face. Difficult to revenge kill, even more difficult to switch into if it has Life Orb. Generally Latias is a good bet, but Shadow Ball hurts a lot.

    (Incomplete, I'll finish it in a while)
  3. Umbreon Dan

    Umbreon Dan smogon :^(
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Oct 19, 2008
    cool team, zarator. personally, i would make a couple of minor changes:

    -your team has so much speed already, i don't really see the need for max speed timid fidgit. since you describe it as part of your defensive core (which it is), i think you should run the 252 / 120 / 136 bold spread for the extra bulk. that should also make it easier to switch into rotom-a.

    -your team has a ton of electricity on it. i'd say drop thunderpunch from either arghonaut or kitsunoh, and instead use roar or earthquake/superpower.

    -i'm not feeling frisk. have you tried running limber? paralysis immunity is great, and it will help kitsunoh switch into blissey.

    -if you leave thunderpunch on arghonaut, maybe you could consider replacing waterfall with ice punch. yeah you lose STAB, but fight/ice/elec has pretty great super effective coverage anyway. that would help with your dragonite/salamence weakness (though kitsunoh is already an awesome check to those dragons so i don't see how you're really weak to them <_>)
  4. zarator

    zarator ^_^
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor Alumnus

    Mar 12, 2008
    Mmm... I never thought about it seriously. I'll try it, thanks.

    The fact is, I absolutely need to run Thunderpunch on Arghonaut to avoid Gyarados setting up on me with Taunt and Bounce, and I do not have the guts to switch in Kitsunoh directly. However, should I sacrifice Arghonaut (a thing I'm often forced to do against Agiligross for example), after a Dragon Dance Gyarados would harass my entire team into submission, hence why I needed Thunderpunch to revenge kill it. The best I could try is Trick over Thunderpunch. It still makes Gyarados manageable somehow, forcing it into a move Latias can probably take on (Waterfall or Earthquake), and it also keeps it's utility against Blissey (Probably the no.1 target of Superpower). The only Pokémon I can think about which I would need Earthquake for is Agiligross (Heatran is handled by Latias nicely), but a lot of the Pokémon which create me problems (Latias, Rotom, Dragonite, Salamence, Stratagem) are immune to Ground, and lend them a free switch is a tough decision to do. Same thing with Superpower (besides Stratagem, the above Pokémon still enjoy a free switch in). I already have 2 Tricksters, but Stall is so mean that a third could not be a bad thing.

    Sorry, but this team revolves heavily around prediction. Knowing if a Rotom has Levtovers, Choice Specs or Choice Scarf (or if a Kitsunoh has Leftovers, Life Orb, Choice Scarf, Choice Band etc) is often the difference between success or failure to me. And I already have Fidgit to absorb Thunderwaves.

    The reason why I'm weak to them is that I do not have a free switch in into them. Sure, Kitsunoh can revenge kill them, but chances are they have something on the team to absorb an unSTABbed Ice Punch. I will try Ice Punch over Waterfall.

    Thanks a lot for the suggestions!
  5. blizzcano320


    Oct 28, 2009
    Pretty good team.
    As for anti-Dragonite, I found Uxie to help me through a lot of situations albeit none with Dragonite. Uxie is great to me and it might help you, but I cannot see what you would like to replace besides Jirachi. Anyways, think about.

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