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Twisted World (An OU Trick Room Team)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Hawk12192, Jul 29, 2012.

  1. Hawk12192

    Hawk12192

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Twisted World


    First, I believe an introduction is in order. Greetings to the community of Smogon. This is not only my first rate-my-team, but also my very first post on this forum in general. I am a long time lurker of Smogon, having used the site's resources to help me train pokemon and battle against my friends. Finally, after playing around with the new simulator and falling in love, I've decided to officially join and try my hand at competitive battling. While I am a newbie around these parts, please, show no mercy when looking at my team. If you find something absolutely terrible about the pokemon I have lined up, then by all means, call me out on it. You are only helping me to become a better player.

    Now on to the team itself. Twisted World, as you guys have seen from the title, is a Trick Room team I've come up with for OU. I've read several guides on how to form Trick Room teams, but I've found that they are generally relegated to lower tiers. But, with so many great options for Trick Room teams in OU, such as Reuniclus and Conkledurr, it seems almost silly to restrict it only to the lower tiers. Personally, I have every belief that Trick Room teams can compete with the big weather boys in OU, and I think my team reflects that. I've been playing around with the team on Pokemon Showdown for a while, and with how well it has done against more experienced players, I think it justifies the fact that Trick Room has a place in OU.

    Before I show the team itself, its worth explaining why a player should use Trick Room at all. I'll leave a full explanation of Trick Room to far more experienced players and detailed guides, but to me Trick Room is devastating due to the effect it can have on your opponent. Think about it, so much of this game's offense revolves around speed. Simply being the one to hit first can have a major impact on the course of a battle. With Trick Room, all of the speed your opponent has built into their team becomes more of a hindrance than anything else. This is especially troubling for teams that use Swift Swim, Chlorophyll, or other speed enhancing moves.

    That's not all trick room has to offer. There are several pokemon in the metagame that, as opposed to speed, have bulk. The ability to not only absorb damage but also dish it out can be a devastating combination. An example of this is the pokemon I have in my avatar (and my personal favorite), Marowak. While Marowak does not take a place on my team, he not only tears holes in his opponent, but can take enough hits to continue the sweep. With these thoughts in mind, I decided to try and create my first pokemon team.

    I've heard every taunt online. "Trick Room is a gimmick, its ineffective, use a darn drizzle toad," but I think that in the right circumstances, Trick Room can be a hard thing to counter.

    Team History

    Show Hide

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    My first edition of the team. More of an experiment than anything else, I can immediately spot a few problems with it. First of all, there were far too many physical attackers, and both of my trick room setters had problems with dark types. Therefore, some changes were made.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Change one, goodbye Snorlax. I had more than enough physical attackers at this point, and the big guy never did much for me. While I wanted my team to be primarily offensive, I still needed pokemon that could take a few hits while being able to sit up trick room. Porygon fits this team extremely well, and without a weakness to dark types.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    The final spot on my team was in constant flux as I tried to find a final pokemon that could do damage. Magnezone was given a try to help me deal with the likes of Ferrothorn and Skarmory, both of which I was having some trouble with. However, the magnet guy wasn't doing the job, and Scizor was underwhelming. I know that several of you guys would disagree with me on this, but I was never that impressed by Scizor. With how prominent he has become, it feels like everyone I run into knows exactly how to take him out. Therefore, I decided to try something different.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I decided to try something different. I never liked Heatran that much. He's ugly (for me, it is a factor), seemed easy to counter, and seems to embody what I hate about recent legendary designs in pokemon games. Then I tried him out, and he seems to be the perfect fit for my team, easily dealing with the metal threats I've been having, while still managing to knock holes in the teams of my opponent. Heatran always had great stats, but his speed was lower than that of the average sweeper. Trick Room solves that problem, and he has the bulk to take several hits too.




    The Team
    [​IMG]

    Apocalypse (Cofragigus) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Mummy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SpD
    Nature: Quiet
    - Trick Room

    - Nasty Plot
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power Fighting


    The pokemon I choose to use as my lead fluctuates based on how my opponent's team looks. Apocalypse, however, is the one I choose most often due to his massive defenses and pure shock power. Seriously, I have faced a ton of opponents who have no idea how to deal with this guy. While his first function is to set up trick room, his second is to start sweeping if given the opportunity. Many opponents choose to start the game by setting up entry hazards, while Apocalypse starts powering up with nasty plot. Before they know it, Apocalypse is hitting at four times his normal power, outrunning everything on his opponent's team, and hitting everything with only two attacks. Its not a problem that can easily be solved either, as Apocalypse's great defenses take plenty of hits, and his hidden power fighting allows him to surprisingly ko several of the dark types my opponent is depending on stopping him. Any pokemon that has consistently won a game by himself is worthy of being labelled as a threat, and Apocalypse has certainly earned his name.

    As to the name itself, its a reference to X-men Evolution, if anyone cares.

    [​IMG]

    Psycho (Reuniclus) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Magic Guard
    Evs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 SAtk
    Nature: Quiet
    - Trick Room
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Energy Ball

    Basic Reuniclus set. Nothing really surprising here, but Psycho requires no improvements in my mind. Magic Guard is a wonderful ability that allows Psycho to not only avoid entry hazards, but eat my opponent's toxic attacks whenever they are thrown his way. With his bulk, slow speed, and high special attack, Reuniclus is ready to start sweeping right away once trick room is set up. The usage of energy ball might require some explanation. My team was having some trouble with bulky waters, so I decided to have Reuniclus surprise them. So far, I prefer this change, but if it doesn't work well in the future, then I might change it back to shadow ball. Thus far, I haven't had many situations where it was beneficial to keep Reuniclus in against another psychic type, so I generally just switch anyway.

    [​IMG]

    Goldberg (Conkeldurr) @ Flame Orb
    Ability: Guts
    Evs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def
    Nature: Brave
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Payback
    - Facade

    I dislike Conkeldurr, mostly because his arrival marked the replacement of Machamp, one of my favorites from the first generation. However, it cannot be denied that Conkeldurr is immensely good at what he does, and that is hitting extremely hard. With his combination of drain punch and mach punch, Conkeldurr is not only able to keep his health up, but also hit with priority whenever trick room is not running. There isn't much to say about Conkeldurr, his beauty is in his simplicity. The guy hits things until they fall down, and that doesn't take long.

    [​IMG]

    Phanny (Donphan) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    Evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Nature: Brave
    -Rapid Spin
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge
    -Ice Shard

    A Donphan built for offense, this pokemon seems to be favored more as a utility user than an offensive threat. I, however, in accordance with the rest of my team, use Phanny to bring the pain. My favorite pokemon on my team, Phanny is able to not only dish out damage, but also take it from physical attackers. Ice shard is his most useful move, allowing him to surprise opponents without trick room due to his priority, and finishing off dragons. Rapid spin is self-explanatory if one is running an offensive team, as the threat of entry hazards is too big to ignore. Phanny ensures that the rest of my team can enter the field safely.

    [​IMG]


    Plucky (Porygon2) @ Eviolite
    Ability: Trace
    Evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Nature: Quiet
    -Trick Room
    -Thunderbolt
    -Ice Beam
    -Recover

    You can never have enough trick room setters, especially when your entire game plan can be shattered when they are taken out. Plucky seems to do everything well, whether its taking hits, scouting the opponent, or doing surprising amounts of damage. Trace is Plucky's best ability, completely screwing up certain opponents. For instance, Heatran's flash fire ability suddenly becomes a hindrance once his opponent acquires it, and this is also true of any other pokemon that rely on their abilities to be useful. Surprisingly, Plucky's best usage seems to be that of a dragon killer, annihilating the likes of Dragonite and Salemence by using their own abilities against them before firing off an ice beam.

    [​IMG]

    The Pyro (Heatran) @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Flash Fire
    Evs: 252 Hp/ 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Nature: Quiet
    -Overheat
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Earth Power
    -Hidden Power Grass

    The latest edition to my team, and perhaps the most surprising. I've never seen Heatran recommended for a trick room team, but he actually works really well. With his lower than average offensive speed, the Pyro sweeps quite well under trick room, whether its setting up on a vulnerable opponent, or revenge-killing when one of my trick room setters is taken out. His bulk and excellent typing allow him to take many hits while dishing them out, an ideal attribute for a trick room sweeper. Also, Heatran works extremely well for countering Sunny Day teams, which is important given the number of them I've run into. The opponent always hesitates to throw out fire attacks when they know that Heatran can switch in at any time.


    Considered Changes

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    [​IMG]

    Heatran's position is the one that is currently in flux. So far, I have grown very attached to my team's newest member, but changes might occur. I've considered using a Ditto with a macho brace, slowing down the mimic pokemon enough to surprise opponents in trick room. It would certainly be an interesting experiment.

    [​IMG]
    My all time favorite pokemon. Marowak hits hard, and has the bulk to deal with trick room. However, he lacks a priority move, which is important for trick room teams.

    [​IMG]
    With Donphan not pulling his weight, it seems like the most logical thing to do would be to add a pokemon who can sweep once my trick room setters are taken out. That job can be handled well by Salemence, a pokemon that should always be feared for its attack and speed.

    [​IMG]
    Poor Haxorus. Not even a monstrous attack stat can make him get as much attention as Salemence or Dragonite. However, I've always been fond of Haxorus, and he might fit very well on my team. After all, if I'm replacing a trick room setter, it would be nice to have one who isn't vulnerable to stealth rock.


    Past Team Members

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    [​IMG]
    Skynet (Magnezone)@ Choice Specs
    Ability: Magnet Pull
    Evs: 252 SAtk / 252 Hp / 4 Def
    Nature: Quiet
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden power fire
    - Volt Switch
    - Flash Cannon

    I chose Magnezone because I thought it would be useful for countering bulky waters, but that was not a problem that ever came up for me again once I started using the guy. The problem with Magnezone, for me, is that the very pokemon he was meant to trap always ended up killing him. Heatran just works better.

    [​IMG]
    Red Ranger (Scizor) @ Choice Band
    Ability: Technician
    Evs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Nature: Brave

    Scizor, what can I say about this guy you don't already know? Stab priority, low speed, great typing, and high attack...all are good attributes for a trick room pokemon. Yet, Red Ranger always seemed to die quickly on the battlefield. Eventually, one gets tired of seeing one of their team members being killed in one hit, and a change was made. Furthermore, Scizor was easily walled by Skarmory, a big problem for my team.

    [​IMG]

    Big Show (Snorlax) @ Normal Gem
    Ability: Thick Fat
    Evs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
    Nature: Brave

    I think everyone is slightly fond of the big guy here. Snorlax is just plain effective at what it does...soaking up damage while dishing it out. However, Snorlax never seemed to work well for me as a physical sweeper, so he was taken out. Porygon2 was the superior choice.


    Threats

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    [​IMG]

    Heatran has helped to alleviate my Skarmory problem, but it is still a big threat to my team. With low speed, Skarmory potentially benefits from trick room as much as my own team, allowing him to set up entry hazards and surprise me with brave bird.

    [​IMG]

    Possibly the biggest threat my team faces is a stalling Gliscor. Once he gets going with subsitutes and protect, I have a hard time breaking through. Any recommendations on how to break this guy would be much appreciated.

    [​IMG]

    With his low speed, Ferrothorn loves trick room as much as I do, setting up entry hazards and hitting hard with his surprisingly high attack. Heatran has essentially eliminated this threat, but if he's eliminated, I can have a lot of trouble with this guy.

    [​IMG]
    A threat I rarely see, but one that needs to be recognized, Honchkrow not only counter Conkledurr with his flying typing, but also wreaks havoc on two of my trick room setters. Porygon2 helps knock this bird out of the sky, but I still fear the crow.

    [​IMG]

    A pokemon seen only for his ability, I have a hard time countering Politoed as a started. He generally managed to kill one of my team members at the start of the game. My team works well against drizzle, except for the man who actually brings the rain.


    Closing

    So that's my team everyone! I put a lot of work into setting this page up, and I hope it suites your standards. Please let me know if I missed anything, and don't hold back with your comments. I will only get better through your tough love.

    Importable (I mean, if you want to...)

    Show Hide

    Apocalypse (Cofragigus) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SpD
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Quiet Nature
    - Trick Room

    - Nasty Plot
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power Fighting


    Psycho (Reuniclus) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    Evs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 SAtk
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Quiet Nature
    - Trick Room
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Energy Ball

    Goldberg (Conkeldurr) @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Payback
    - Facade

    Phanny (Donphan) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Rapid Spin
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard

    Plucky (Porygon2) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Trace
    EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Trick Room
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover

    The Pyro (Heatran) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 Hp / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Overheat
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power Grass

  2. pwnage77

    pwnage77

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    248
    you might wanna consider removing Specs on Heatran. Choice items kinda defeat the purpose of TR teams since once you get locked and your opponent switches to a check/counter, then you have to switch out and that's one turn for your TR. Also, consider Fire Blast over Overheat. And also, try this one out:

    Marowak@Thick Club
    Ability: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Nature: Brave
    IVs: 0 Spe
    Moveset:
    ~Earthquake
    ~Stone Edge / ThunderPunch
    ~Double Edge
    ~Substitute / Fire Punch

    EQ for STAB. Stone Edge for EdgeQuake or ThunderPunch for not risking the miss in case you need it the most. Double Edge is a powerful move just for things who resist EQ and is neutral/resistant to Stone Edge. Substitute for blocking status and it will give you a free attack outside of Trick Room in case you still have it. Fire Punch for Bronzong, Virizion, Skarmory, and Breloom.


    EDIT: few more changes.

    252 SpA on Porygon2 instead of Defense. It has more than enough bulk to take hits. Also, try Ice Punch on Conkeldurr to get rid of Gliscor. Shadow Ball instead of Energy Ball on Reuniclus. And Stealth Rock over Stone Edge or Ice Shard for Donphan
  3. Bugdomking

    Bugdomking

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    91
    Over Config, go Chandelure@Orb/Exbert Belt
    -Trick Room
    -Fire Blast
    -Shadow Ball
    -Energy Ball/Substitute
    Quiet, Hp and SpA

    It's really fun!!!
    :)
  4. pwnage77

    pwnage77

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    248
    I quite disagree with that one^. Heatran outclasses Chandelure to a big extent other than having Trick Room. Chandelure isn't bulky enough to set up. It's also weak to Stealth Rock
  5. Sciztar

    Sciztar

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2012
    Messages:
    259
    Hi Hawk,

    Solid Trick Room team, you seem to have the concept down. I have made a guide on Trick Room in the OU so this can help you out. OU Guide to Trick Room.

    I suggestions for you that you change Reuniclus moveset to Trick Room / Psyshock / Focus Blast / Shadow Ball over your current Reuniclus set would benefit your team by giving you a solid shot at sweeping under Trick Room. B/c Energy ball is only hitting Swampert, Gastrodon, Quasire hard, but thats mostly it. Focus Blast hits Tyranitar hard, b/c he poses a great threat to your team.

    Your team doesn't have a counter to faster Pokemon when Trick Room is over. B/c all of your Pokemon are slow and non of them will out speed most of the late game sweepers in the OU tier, thats why I would recommend a late game sweeper Choice Scarf Salamence with the move set of Outrage / Dragon Claw / Fire Blast / Earthquake. With Salamence he will clean up the rest of your opponents team. With its amazing Base 135 Attack, any pokemon leftover on your opponents side will be KOed and give your Salamence the +attack.

    Now for some smaller changes. First, I recommend replacing Payback for Ice Punch. With Ice Punch you can OHKO Gliscor, Hounchkrow, and opposing Dragon types in the process. Paybacks damaged is halved under Trick Room, b/c you will be going first.

    Hoped this helped your team!

    Sets:
    Show Hide

    Goldberg (Conkeldurr) @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Facade

    Reuniclus (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
    - Trick Room
    - Psyshock
    - Shadow Ball
    - Focus Blast
  6. Cherub Agent

    Cherub Agent come at me winter
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
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    Hi. It's nice to see a refreshing TR team for a change. However, there are a couple of things that I think I could help you with.

    Conkeldurr: I think that Payback can be replaced. Conkeldurr will practically always be moving first under TR, meaning that Paybck will only be hitting with a measly 50 BP. Facade hits bulky Psychic-types far harder anyway. I recommend switching Payback to Ice Punch, as this is your best shot at breaking through Gliscor, Landorus-T and Dragonite, who can all stomach a Facade thanks to massive Defense, Intimidate and Multiscale. Ice Punch will also hit Gengar for the OHKO, so Payback isn't really missed. Also, perhaps consider using Toxic Orb? It'll do less damage than Flame Orb in the first three turns, conveniently the three turns that Conkeldurr will spend under the effects of Trick Room.

    Heatran: Heatran gets Eruption (with a fixed Quiet nature, 4th Gen event), which is an ideal move to use under Trick Room. With Overheat, you're forced to basically switch out after every STAB move, and thus completely wasting one of your precious Trick Room turns. Heatran can continue the flow of Eruption, while being powerful and very difficult to outspeed, not to mention bulky, and practically guarantee the win against a Sun team. So I'd use that over Overheat, and when you run low on health, consider Fire Blast/Flamethrower (preferably the former) over one of the coverage moves. HP Grass is your weakest, and bulky Water-types can easily fall to 2 Specs boosted Eruptions/Fire Blasts.

    I see that you said that Donphan is your favourite Pokemon on the team, which makes me loathe to change it... But I don't really see what it does for your team. It lacks the massive offensive power than Trick Room sweepers need (since you have Leftovers) and since none of your Pokemon are actually Stealth Rock weak, Rapid Spin support is kind of wasted in my opinion. I think that you could use this slot for a Pokemon that can be fast and powerful when Trick Room isn't active (something that practically all TR teams need). Sciztar's idea of using Choice Scarf Salamence is a good one.

    Good luck with the team!
  7. Hawk12192

    Hawk12192

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    You bring up an excellent point in reference to Heatran. Choice specs was a poor choice. Thus far, I had been assuming that Heatran would play the role of a revenge killer, and choice specs seemed like a logical choice. Turns out I was completely wrong.

    Also, you really tempt me with that Marowak set. I feel that Marowak is one of those pokemon stuck in the lower tiers not because of his poor abilities, but mostly because so few people actually use him. Because rapid spin is no longer an issue, I think that this might actually be a very logical choice. However, he might be a better fit on the trick room team I have planned for the NU tier.

    I also agree with the change from payback. It kinda pains me to not use payback as it blocks the ghosts that see Conkledurr as a target, but ice punch would sure help in other situations. This is a change that I certainly will do.

    I see your point regarding Porygon2. This is an easy switch to make. As for Donphan...well, he might not be on my team much longer.

    I'm not really feeling Chandelure on the team with how it is currently set up. Having both him and Heatran seems pretty redundant, and I like Apocalypse's defenses as it allows him to take the brunt force of a few sucker punches or pursuits.

    Thanks for the link to your guide. It actually gave me a lot of useful ideas. For instance, now I'm considering using Machamp instead of Conkledurr, as I was always fond of my no guard Machamp in Platinum, and it might be time to bring him back.

    As for Reuniclus, the only reason I hesitate the only reason I hesitate is because I feel as though my team would still have trouble with water types, which Reuniclus helps with. Its certainly something I will try again, and see how it works.

    As for Salemence, I see what you're saying in regards to the need for a late game sweeper. I'm actually kinda feeling Haxorus a bit more though if only because he isn't weak to stealth rock, but let me do some experimenting. The only thing I'm not sure of is who to replace on my team were I to add a dragon. Most likely Donphan.

    I like your recommendation for a toxic orb. I shall certainly go try it. As for ice punch, I definitely can't deny what you guys are saying. Time to give it a whirl.

    I am definitely going to use your recommendations for Heatran as well.

    As for Donphan, what I believe he does for my team is two-fold. He provides an excellent rapid spinner and priority move in ice shard. Yet...I see your point. Its hard to get in a rapid spin when my priority is doing as much damage is possible while trick room is actually out. So, if there were a pokemon I would readily replace, it would be Donphan.

    Let me try some things in the simulator. For now, I've added some options in my considered changes. :P
  8. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Good team, but it could do with some changes, and some of them have already been proposed.

    First of all, definitely change Payback with Ice Punch. Payback is not hitting anything that Ice Punch can't, period. Jellicent walls you in TR anyway, and Gengar dies from Ice Punch after SR (82.06 - 96.94%), so you don't really need it. Ice Punch murders Giscor, D-Nite, Landorus-T, and some more, so it is very useful.

    Also change Donphan, as the one you have doesn't do a lot of your team, as said by others. Imo, you need a poke that can deal with Jellicent which is problematic for your team, as it has Taunt to prevent TR, and walls most of your team. Celebi and Magnezone are both good options. Celebi has good bulk, helps with Jellicent and Politoed, has Recover to stick around, and can set-up SR, which your team lacks, and TR, while also being able to U-turn to bring one of your teammates in safely. Here is the set i am talking about:

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    Trait: Natural Cure
    - Giga Drain
    - Recover
    - Trick Room
    - Stealth Rock / U-turn

    Magnezone on the other hand also helps you with Jellicent, as a Modest LO Tbolt ohkoes after SR, while also trapping Skarmory, which is mentioned as a threat. Finally Zone is a good TR abuser, as it has low Speed an hits like a truck. Here is the moveset:

    Magnezone @ Life Orb
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
    Quite Nature
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    - Tbolt
    - HP Ice
    - Flash Cannon
    - Volt Switch

    If you think that you have Jellicent covered then you can opt for the ScarfMence set that Sciztar has proposed, which gives you a win condition after you weaken the opponent's team, and also gives you a poke with real speed, that can revenge kill pokes outside of TR.

    Finally about the Heatran set. I would definitely put LO instead of Specs, as you want to abuse the TR turns, not get forced out by resists/immunities. Also put Fire Blast instead of Overheat, you want to abuse the 3 turns of TR, not kill your SpA every time you fire your STAB move. And finally if you don't go for Celebi with SR, then definitely put it over HP Grass, as it is a must for every offensive team.

    tl;dr version:

    Ice Punch > Payback on Conkeldurr

    Celebi or Magnezone or Scarf Salamence > Donphan

    Life Orb > Specs, Fire Blast > Overheat, Stealth Rock > HP Grass (if you don't chose SR Celebi) on Heatran

    Good luck with your team!
  9. Shaymin :D

    Shaymin :D

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    311
    I don't really see how you have a problem with Gliscor, considering that Conkeldurr has Ice Punch, Donphan has Ice Shard, and if you're really desperate, Pory2 can trace Poison Heal and win the stall.
  10. Starmaster

    Starmaster

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2013
    Messages:
    243
    iCrap rate time!

    I'm gonna suggest Eruption or Fire Blast over Overheat, because the Special Attack drop is horrendous for a sweeper. Eruption's sheer power is ridiculous at full health, but Fire Blast is more consistent. Just take your pick!
  11. CooperDog

    CooperDog

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    I don't see why you have flame orb on Conkeldur because burn halves atack so tis just taking damage. Use toxib orb I guess.
  12. Shaymin :D

    Shaymin :D

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    311
    The Flame Orb activates Guts, and since Guts would be activated, the Attack Drop does not take place.

    Now, on Toxic Orb vs Flame Orb, Toxic Orb does less damage in 3 turns than Flame Orb does, so Toxic Orb is better if you hit and run. Flame Orb, however, deals less damage in the long run than Toxic Orb, so if you stay in for > 3 Turns usually, Flame Orb is better. Now, considering that TR is usually set up TR, switch, kill crap, switch out to TR setter, and set up again, I always preferred Toxic Orb, but Flame Orb is ok, I guess. Just a reccommendation
  13. DynamoDuskull

    DynamoDuskull

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    Overall, this team looks pretty good, but for Reuniclus, have you thought about Signal Beam? A lot of people don't recommend that move, but it's strong against both Dark and other Psychics without wasting two slots for coverage. Feel free to ignore this. It's not a common move, but it's one that's definitely viable and a surprise for the foe.

    You also have two Pokemon weak to water with no resistance, which is really bad in a metagame filled with rain. (Yes, I see that your Porygon2 has Tbolt, but it's not going to do a lot against bulky water types, especially those with recovery.)
  14. CooperDog

    CooperDog

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    But wouldnt that just put Conky at normal Attack?
  15. Shaymin :D

    Shaymin :D

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    311
    Guts Description:

    Guts raises the Attack stat by 50% while affected by the burn, paralysis, poison, or sleep status ailments. The Attack drop from burn does not occur.
    (from bulbapedia)

    So, no, the Attack drop doesn't happen and you still stand at +1 attack.
  16. CooperDog

    CooperDog

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    10
    Sorry my bad thanks Shaymin

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