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Twister - An OU RMT by MikeDecIsHere

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by MikeDecIsHere, May 8, 2012.

  1. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    TWISTER

    A "The World Ends With You" OU RMT
    By MikeDecIsHere


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    Overview

    What's up Smogon? MikeDecIsHere bringing you a very unique Rain Team that I have been working on in the shadows for quite some time. This team revolves around a sort of old but very unique concept: six choiced Pokemon. Immediately, you are probably looking at the team and noticing that it just looks like your normal run-of-the-mill Rain Team, and that is the point. This team is all about the element of surprise, and beating down on the opponent's confused and baffled face as Pokemon that are known to be walls one shot members of his team with ease. The team peaked at 1432 (with the alt "MikeIsAlicesHero") before I got haxxed out of my ass in 5 consecutive matches causing me to drop 100 points, to which I said fuck it. Before that, the team went on a 34-4 run on the ladder, beating down some of the top players on the ladder with ease. I've also used this team in several tournaments and a few Wifi matches. I had planned on using this for one of my ST8 teams, but it was incomplete by then :[

    The theme chosen for this team is "The World Ends With You". Aside from being hands down one of the best games for the DS, the roles each of my Pokemon play actually tie in to the roles of the characters in the game. The team name "Twister" comes from the the song "Twister" which is heard in the game. I encourage you to listen to the song here (this is the remake for KH Dream Drop Distance) as you read this RMT.

    TeamBuilding


    So, the main focus of this team was to use the most boss Pokemon ever: Choice Scarf Jellicent. I've fiddled around with it as a joke, but over time, I realized how fucking powerful a Rain Boosted Water Spout was. On top of that, my opponents usually tried to bring in frail "faster" Pokemon like Tornadus expecting to out speed only to eat a Water Spout in the face and get one shotted. Although it might be considered to be a gimmick, I definitely wanted to make another team revolving around this monster.

    This is how my mind works (open)

    So yeah, this thing 100% needs Rain support, so I needed to add a Politoed. At the time, I was not considering making the team mono-choice, so I decided to go with a physically bulky Toed.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    At this point, the Electric/Grass weakness was glaring in my face. I decided at this point to add a few resistances. Latias and Ferrothorn then joined the team. At the time, Ferrothorn was a simple support Pokemon.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    At this point, I realized my need for physical attackers. I decided to go with Conkeldurr for some strange reason and DD Waterfall Dragonite because it was a boss at the time.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    The team did ok, it went 2-1 in ST8, but it didn't really meet up to my expectations. After disregarding the team for quite some time, Bloo brought up at one point how I used to use Choice Scarf Jellicent. Remembering how unbelievably boss that team was, I decided to rework with this team a bit. This is where I came up with the idea of six choiced users. I wasn't really a big fan of this core, so I decided to swap out Latias / Dragonite / Conkkeldurr for some different guys. It was here that I decided to keep the "offensive core" of Politoed / Jellicent / Ferrothorn. I went ahead and added Rotom-W and Scizor to the mix mainly because Volt-Turn is a must on pure choiced teams, as every bit of momentum helps. I also decided to add Tornadus because it is quite possibly one of if not the most threatening rain sweeper out there right now. Although the triple Electric Weakness sucks, I can usually play around it. And thus the team was born.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    An In Depth Look at the Team

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Rhyme (Politoed) w/ Choice Specs
    Nature: Modest
    Ability: Drizzle
    EVs: 192 HP / 252 SpAtk / 64 Spe

    • Hydro Pump- ok, 80% accuracy sucks, but a Specs Rain Boosted Hydro Pump hits things like a fucking truck, and this team is designed to hit as hard as possible in order to nail down walls.
    • Focus Blast- If 80% accuracy sucks, then 70% accuracy is pure shit. But Focus Blast is important for nailing Ferrothorn who thinks it can easily just come in and wall my ass. Focus Blast does roughly 80%, which is freaking great, because it allows my other guys to just plow through it.
    • Ice Beam - Dem Dragons. That's the only reason this move exists on Politoed. It really has no other functionality outside of that, since a Specs Hydro Pump hits harder than a 2x super effective Ice Beam does.
    • Hidden Power [Grass] - Gastrodon, that is all. Perhaps the rare Rotom, but they always just Volt Switch out, so there's no point.
    Why Politoed?

    Ok, let's be real, if Politoed didn't have Drizzle, no one would give any fucks about this Pokemon. However, since it has one of the most important Abilities in OU, I need to have this Pokemon in my team. Specs is the best item I could give it, because it's still shit slow with Scarf (I think Jellicent is faster LOL). It also has semi decent bulk, so I don't need to invest in its poor speed stat and give it a decent amount of bulk. Rain is extremely vital for this team. Not only does it increase Ferrothorn's longevity, but it also powers up Water Spout, which turns some 2HKOs into some key OHKOs. I sometimes play a little too recklessly with Politoed, but mainly because for some reason no one ever expects Specs.

    Why Politoed = Rhyme?

    Rhyme is the character in The World Ends With You that doesn't really do anything. She dies off early on without ever actually doing any fighting. However, Rhyme is one of the reasons why the plot line develops. This is similar to Politoed. While it usually dies off without getting a kill, its main role is to set up the way for my other members to sweep.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Shiki (Rotom-W) w/ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe

    • Hydro Pump -once again, it's a terrible move, but it's Rotom-W's only STAB option outside of HP Water (lol). In the rain, this hits so freaking hard it's not even funny.
    • Hidden Power (Ice) - It's used for the Dragons, that's about it. I've only ever clicked this if I know my opponent has a Dragonite / Salamence. Otherwise, I usually just stick with Hydro Pump / Volt Switch / Thunder. Bolt Beam is always a nice option to have though.
    • Volt Switch - It's a whore move on Rotom, but I really need the momentum, especially since all of my guys are locked into a move. Switch advantage usually is the thing that can turn the tide in a battle with this team, and Volt Switch definitely helps that out.
    • Thunder / Trick - Right now I am running Thunder mainly because Sub DD Gyara can become pretty annoying without it. However, I am debating on running Trick instead because Trick really helps me out against Stall, which this team tends to struggle with (fuck Chansey/Cresselia)
    Why Rotom-W?

    Honestly, the main reason I have Rotom-W is for Volt-Turning. If it wasn't for that, I probably would never use this thing since I really could use some other resists. I could use Jolteon or Zapdos, but the first is Dugtrio bait and the ladder is weak to SR. Although the coverage is redundant, it definitely helps out against some key threats. Oh, also, Trick is always a nice option to have.

    Why Rotom-W = Shiki?

    Shiki and Neku form a dynamic duo that work extremely well together. Since Rotom-W looks a bit more girl-ish than Scizor, I decided to name Rotom Shiki.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Neku (Scizor) w/ Choice Band
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 SpDef

    • Bullet Punch - The only form of priority on this team. It gives me a good answer to Pokemon that have set up too much like Haxorus and Salamence that pack no form of priority.
    • U-Turn - Volt-Turn is a shit playstyle, but like I said, I need it for this team. The switch advantage really is key in order for my "sweepers" to function.
    • Pursuit - Traps and kills some annoying ass Pokemon like Latias, but I rarely ever click this. I usually just spam U-Turn.
    • Superpower - Does a bit more to Skarmory, and allows me to get a super effective against Ferrothorn. But like Pursuit, I rarely ever click this.
    Why Scizor?

    Let's be real, there's a reason why Scizor was the king of B/W for a while. It provides me with a nice check to Terrakion and allows me to revenge kill things that have set up way too much. Scizor's role is pretty self explanatory, acting as a pivot member and revenge killer.

    Why Scizor = Neku?

    Neku is a boss, Scizor is a boss, the two go hand in hand. While I am not saying that Scizor is the star of the show on this team, he definitely is one of the most vital members, just like Neku.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Joshua (Tornadus) w/ Choice Specs
    Nature: Timid

    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe

    • Hurricane - HOLY FUCK THIS IS STRONG. For those of you who have never used Specs Tornadus, try it solely for this reason. Hurricane is only walled by SpDef Rachi, Heatran, Tyranitar, and the fat blobs. Other than that, Hurricane 2HKOs pretty much the entire metagame, which is freaking amazing.
    • U-Turn - when I predict those fat blobs to come in. However, usually I don't even go out to Tornadus unless Blissey or Chansey are at around 30% health because SR Damage racks up fast.
    • Focus Blast - Hits Heatran and Tyranitar, but that's all this shit move is good for. Missing Focus Blast on the predicted switch sucks :[
    • Tailwind - The best suggested change for the team. Allows me to have a last resort for Pokemon that have set up too much (like +2 Adamant Dragonite) and lets me revenge kill with Jellicent (lol)
    Why Tornadus

    Quite possibly the most threatening rain sweeper out there right now. Hurricane is extremely anti-meta, with only a few Pokemon resisting it. Hurricane also punches some holes in my opponents team for Jellicent to clean up. Yeah, this thing is a monsterrrrrrrr.

    Why Tornadus = Joshua?

    Well, Joshua is a fucking boss. He is hinted to be the strongest person in the game, which definitely equates to Tornadus. That's about it.


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    Beat (Ferrothorn) w/ Choice Band
    Nature: Brave
    Ability: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    IVs: 0 Spe

    • Stealth Rock - my only source of hazards. I rarely have the time to set these up in the game, but when I do, they definitely help me out.
    • Power Whip - This shit is strong. A burned Power Whip almost one shots Modest 108 HP Rotom....jeez. Yeah, Power Whip is a strong reliable STAB move. It also breaks Sub CM Jirachi's subs which is nice..
    • Gyro Ball - Slow as shit with max Attack and a Choice Band? Yeah, Gyro Ball does some work. It has a good chance to one shot an Infernape after Stealth Rock, and while you might say, oh it's Infernape, Gyro Ball normally does around 35-40%.....so yeah. Gyro Ball can one shot some scary threats. This also makes me less weak to Dragons.
    • Bulldoze - Catches Heatran / Magnezone that think they can switch in and OHKOs them (unless Magnezone is running bulk). That's the only reason I use this move.
    Why Ferrothorn?

    Ferrothorn is the first of my "bulky offense" core. He shares some great typing with Jellicent, and the two really work well together. It's also nice that they hit from opposite ends of the spectrum. CB Ferrothorn is also extremely underrated, and actually acts as a very solid check to Sub CM Rachi. Power Whip is freaking strong, and no one ever expects it to be :]

    Why Ferrothorn = Beat?

    Just look at Ferrothorn. It looks like a Beat. Plus, Ferrothorn is always switching in on something that is threatening to Politoed, just like how Beat needs to constantly save Rhyme, so it makes some sense.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Mr. H (Jellicent) w/ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe

    • Water Spout - This move is why this thing is a boss. Water Spout hits like a freaking truck in the rain, despite not being Specs. This thing is a bossssssssss.
    • Hydro Pump - Surf is too weak, and I need a Water Move for when Jellicent's HP goes down. Hydro Pump is cool when it hits, but 80% accuracy sucks :[
    • Ice Beam- Dragons that resist water. Water + Ice is nice coverage.
    • Shadow Ball- Secondary STAB option. Cool to have for Celebi and Gengar (Jelli outspeeds both and OHKOs the latter :])
    Why Jellicent?

    Mainly for the surprise factor. Unless the opponent knows or I get haxxed, Jellicent usually nets at least two kills a game. First the opponent thinks Specs, then gets demolished when they find out it's Scarfed. Also, Jellicent is like the best Lucario counter ever. If it has Crunch, it gets out sped and dies, which is hilarious.

    Why Jellicent = Mr. H?

    Mr. H is the man of mystery, and is hinted to be the most important person in the reaper game. Jellicent is very similar to this. While it doesn't look like it, Jellicent is the center of my offensive core, and demolishes so many things with Water Spout.

    Conclusion

    Thank you for taking the time to read my RMT. For those who are interested in rating, I know the team would be significantly better if I used Scarfed Terrakion > Scarfed Jellicent. However, because Jellicent is the center of this team, I really don't want to give that up haha. Feel free to rate, comment, steal. However, I would like to ask those who do decide to use this team to keep the nicknames, mainly because TWEWY is so good haha. I hope you guys enjoyed this unique team. Also, Bloo, Scarfed Jellicent is a bossssssssssssss. Feel free to leave a Luvdisc if you enjoyed this :]

    Importable (open)
    Rhyme (Politoed) (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 192 HP / 252 SAtk / 64 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Mr. H (Jellicent) (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Water Spout
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Shadow Ball

    Beat (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball
    - Bulldoze
    - Power Whip

    Joshua (Tornadus) (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - U-turn
    - Focus Blast
    - Hurricane
    - Tailwind

    Shiki (Rotom-W) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunder
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Hydro Pump

    Neku (Scizor) (F) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

  2. Faint

    Faint Valar morghulis
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    I've ran CB Ferro in Ubers before and it is a fucking monster. I've never seen it in a RMT so I give you props for using it. Choice Scarf Jellicent seems hella fun to use too. I like how Ferrothorn and Jellicent are an awesome defensive core, and you took both of them and made an awesome offensive core.

    I won't lie and pretend that I know a lot about OU but this team looks like it has most of the games biggest threats covered in one way or another. It also looks like a lot of fun to use with 6 choice users. It's really an awesome team.

    edit: also yeah TWEWY is an awesome game.
  3. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    Thanks! Yeah the team is really fun to use, especially the Jellicent (it causes so many people to rage).

    And yeah, TWEWY is awesome!
  4. peng

    peng

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    Hi.

    So this team seems to have a pretty big problem with not only stall, but entry hazards in general. This isn't really helped by the fact that Ferrothorn switches in pretty easily on a lot of your team and can set-up hazards or disrupt your Volt-Turning with Protect. As soon as Stealth Rock hits the field your chances of breaking through stall really start to crumble, as you seem to rely on Volt-Turn and Tornadus to deal with stall teams in the first place. I think a Choice Specs Starmie would be a great addition to the team, dealing around 40% to standard Ferrothorn switch-ins, Spinning away Stealth Rocks and Spikes, crippling Chansey and Blissey with Trick whilst still maintaining your all-choice theme:

    [​IMG]
    Starmie @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunder / Ice Beam / Psyshock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Trick

    I also think you should at least test-out Tailwind over Rain Dance on Tornadus. Hurricane Volcarona looks like it can be pretty annoying for you to face if it can get-up a Quiver Dance, especially since Jellicent is running an offensive set. Tailwind allows you to revenge-kill it with one of your other Pokemon if it manages to get to +1 Spd, as well as just being all-around good utility to beat Dragon Dancers or Choice Scarfers late-game if you screw-up a bit and lose Rotom-W / Scizor to a misprediction.

    Cool-looking team, Mike. Good Luck!
  5. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    Thanks for the rate Peng!

    Yeah, hazards are really annoying for this team to deal with. I'm usually fine if it's Deo-D offense hazards, as SR + 1 Layer isn't too bad to play around. However, if the opponent gets 2 layers up I start to get in trouble.

    Starmie is a cool choice, but unfortunately, I don't really have the room for it. I am trying to maintain 2 Scarf + 2 Specs + 2 Band since that is the best blend for mono choice, and Specs Toed and Specs Tornadus have all been extremely vital (the former 2HKOs Deo-D leads while the ladder helps me with Stall).
    Another unfortunate problem is that Choiced Rapid Spin is really easy to take advantage of on a mono-choice team, even more so than in general, because the need to spin becomes much higher. I'm usually able to play around most Spikers, and luckily for me, Spike Stacking has become less common as well as stall due to Sub SD Terrakion. If I think of a way to fit this in though, I will definitely test Starmie out!

    Tailwind seems like a solid idea. Rain Volc is pretty annoying, but everytime I've faced one I've usually predicted it coming in, double switched into Jellicent, and one shotted with Water Spout (this is why Choiced Terrakion would be better here, so I could just revenge kill Volcs at +1 :/). I will definitely try Tailwind over Rain Dance!
  6. The 2nd coming

    The 2nd coming

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    Oi Mike,banded gyro ball bronzong. Rain covers the fire weakness,and it has pretty decent coverage to boot. So if you want something different that might be worth lookin at.
  7. Draycos7

    Draycos7

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    TWEWY is a fucking amazing game, and this team has almost reached that level of amaze. I think this team is great. Always nice to see less popular yet effective movesets. I think maybe one thing you could do to help this team would be to replace Rotom with a Specs (or scarf) Jolteon, as that patches up your electric weakness with VA, and still has Volt Switch to keep up the momentum. Otherwise, awesome team!
  8. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    :o Second <3

    Zong means I have to get rid of Ferrothorn, and that would make me significantly more weak to electric attacks. Not saying Banded Zong isn't strong, it just doesn't fit with the team here.

    Thanks!

    Jolteon would make me a lot weaker to Spike Stacking than I already am (since instead of just my main U-Turner, my Volt Switcher gets hammered too). I might test it out, but I don't think it would work too well.
  9. Cote1616

    Cote1616

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    Taking Adherence to the next level here. Love the notion, it can catch people WAY off guard, since the norm is one or two. Having everything be a lot stronger or faster than expected can crush through teams.

    In terms of surprise factor, this hits a home run. People would look at this and think "Oh, offensive Rain team. Seen this a million times", and proceed to get spanked when they find out. Jellicent and Ferrothorn in particular.

    Only things I could suggest (You know how much I know about the 5th gen metagame) would be to swap Scizor and Tornadus for more surprise Pokes. Just take a rain stall team and choice everything.

    Alternatively, forgo the illusion altogether and just pump out offense. Set up rain and don't look back. Terrakion over Ferrothorn, Chandelure over Jellicent.

    And this team needs less shirt. Way too much shirt going on in here.
  10. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    The only change I would probably make here is Terrakion over Jellicent. Without Ferrothorn, I become much weaker to Sub CM Jirachi, and Chandelure in the rain sucks haha. As I said in the thread, Scarf Terrakion patches up a lot of weaknesses, but it makes the team less surprising.

    Also, there is the perfect amount of shirt on
  11. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    a bump for some rates and some love :]
  12. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    Thanks Grimm!

    The point of this team is to be six choiced users. SD Ferrothorn goes away from that theme. I also lose a move slot for a coverage move, which means I lose to a threat that I could normally handle before.
  13. lapras6666

    lapras6666

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    Hey mike, absolutely love this team! Never even imagined how Scarfed Jellicent could be so effective, it fits perfectly on your team.

    Now, the two big weaknesses of your team are Bulky Rotom-W and Sub-Disable Gengar. There are other minor weaknesses, like Stall or Specially Defensive Jirachi, but all of these can be taken care of in some sort of way or form. Firstly, even though Ferrothorn can OHKO it / 2HKO it, your team doesn't have any reliable switch-in to it. This is a big problem, since a Hydro Pump can 2HKO every member of your team that isn't KO'ed by Volt Switch / Thunderbolt easily. Another threat is sub disable Gengar, as since all of your team's members are choiced, Gengar can easily disable any move they throw at it. Now, for the changes. Firstly, I suggest that you switch Ferrothorn with Breloom, the set could be your choice. This gives you a reliable switch-in to Rotom-W. Now comes the problems. You don't have any hazards anymore. Because of this, I reccomend placing Forretress
    on your team. The problem is, who to replace it? I think that I should leave that to you. Adding forry gives you the ability to spin away hazards, which your team is weak to, and be able to set up them too. With forry, you can also counter gengar, since this specific set should have specially defensive EV's and Gyro Ball.

    Hope you like the suggestions. You'll probably not do them cause you want your band/band/scarf/scarf/specs/specs core to keep going, but whatever <3
  14. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    Hey Lapras, thanks for the rate!

    Bulky Rotom actually is not that big of a deal. Ferrothorn can handle it pretty nicely, and I have Scarfed Thunder, which is an easy 2HKO. I've never really had any problems with it.

    Gengar is annoying, but what I usually do is go to Scizor, U-Turn out to Jellicent, and KO with Water Spout / Shadow Ball since I out speed (and they always stay in).

    Breloom needs Toxic Orb to function as you said, and that removes the purpose of this team. I am sticking with the mono-choice, and Scarfed Breloom is ok, but still falls victim to Burn. So odds are I will not be using Breloom.

    Forry just does not hit hard with a Choice Band. Earthquake is cool, but Iron Barbs has been very convenient for me. Plus, Choiced Rapid Spin really sucks because it leaves you as set up bait.

    Thanks for the rate though <3
  15. VN.

    VN. the birds pt. 1
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    Hey this is an awesome team Mike and kinda inspired me to want to post one of my favorite BW Teams. You have some unique sets here and I'd probably call them out as scrub sets if I was raging on ladder, but they're actually really cool; I love Scarf Jellicent!

    Anyways there aren't really many threats to this team if you play it smart enough; you do have trouble switching in on Specs Tornadus Hurricanes repeatedly, but between SR and Rotom-W's ability to force it out you can kill it quickly enough so that it doesn't influence the match too greatly. Anyways since this team is really at the point where there aren't many [if at all] threats that stand out, but I do think you could make a few smaller objective changes to improve the team's overall effectiveness. For one thing, I'd like to support PenguinX's idea of running Tailwind over Rain Dance on Tornadus. Tailwind is probably extremely situational on a Specs Set, but could probably net you the win in a close game where you need one of your Pokemon to get an extra speed boost, whereas Rain Dance isn't as useful since using it mid game stops your momentum a bit and it won't be significant late-game, under most circumstances. I also think you could try running 64 Speed EVs on Politoed so that it's outspeeding Specially Defensive Heatran and Bulk Up Breloom, although not that the former matters that much. Outspeeding Bulk Up Breloom can be quite significant, though as Politoed is doing 85% - 100.63% to standard Bulk Up Breloom with Specs Ice Beam, which holds the potential to take it out or leave it so badly damaged that anything else on your team can. That's really all, this is a really solid team with few weaknesses, so it was tough to find anything to improve. I hope the changes helped and gl!

    Change Summary:

    Tornadus:
    Rain Dance-> Tailwind

    Politoed:
    36 HP EVs-> 26 Spe EVs for a total of 64 Spe EVs
  16. Stunt

    Stunt

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    Pretty much what i thought.
  17. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    I really like these changes, I will definitely be implementing them (I've tested Tailwind, and it's definitely nicer to have over Rain Dance, though the loss of weather sometimes sucks)

    Thanks for the rate Karpman!
  18. AWildCastformAppeared

    AWildCastformAppeared

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    well, as u sad rain dance on tornadus is mainly a filler move, but i prefer air slash to cripple some grass types or something even without the rain, just try it. also, i think that quick attack instead of pursuit can be a good choice, because pursuit lets your opponent setup, while quicka ttack can revenge kill some gyarados or volcarona for example. Also i dont like ferrothorn that much, subchargebeam magnezone will just destroy you if it can setup on gyro ball/sr, i think u can still use a max atk/max hp ferrothorn with shed shell, then now that u have a free slot u can put spikes to abuse of hazards in combination with jellicent
  19. MikeDecIsHere

    MikeDecIsHere Congregation of the Classiest
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    I don't think people are getting the fact that this is meant to be a mono choice team...

    Air Slash is not worth it. Outside of Ferrothorn and Celebi (and the now rare Virizion), no one uses enough Grass types for it to be worth it. Tailwind is superior by far.

    Power Whip breaks Sub Charge Beam's Substututes, so it does not set up on me unless I miss. Also, if the opponent has a Magnezone, I don't mindlessly click Stealth Rock. I usually spam Bulldoze (which is a OHKO) until they eventually come in.

    Edit: User Furai has kindly pointed out that my Politoed has been Hardy this whole time (I fucking hate team builder). This means that Hydro Pump is probably a OHKO on Deo-D leads.

    I fixed the importable to reflect these changes I made.

    Edit2: Still a 2HKO :[
  20. DarthChocoboz

    DarthChocoboz

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    Hi Mike, haven't played in a while so im really taking stabs in the dark here but i agree with penguin X when he said you should use rapid spin starmie, it helps deal with stuff like sub disable gengar, entry hazards and stall, Starmie can use trick boys and girls and makes an excellent stallbreaker for you. Now i know it means losing jellicent but i believe this will make your team a lot stronger, the main reason why i think running choiced rapid starmie is fine is because whos going to guess you have choiced team? i mean lead off deoxys just sets up hazards and dies, so you have a really easy matchup there and if they do figure out you have a choice team and know you're going to spin you have an easy prediction to kill a spin blocker. Starmie also lures in Ferrothorn, Cress, Chansey etc, allowing an easy trick and crippiling their team (well the pokemon that give you the most problems) Starmie also is very scary as a pokemon and can scare those big threats outta there. I wouldn't chance penguins set, but i'd prefer ice beam just as a hard hitting option for latias which could be problematic if the rare CM reflect verient.

    Also Sub Disable gengar is a huge problem, to continue to you're 2-2-2 mindset if you switch rotom to starmie use a scarf scizor to take out gengar faster, but you're guarentee'd to lose something in the process.
    Great team, i loved it you should be wrecking fools with it and also only jirachi and blissey counter specs tornadus i found. :P
  21. BKC

    BKC Outstanding ideas,
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    I agree with the Specs Starmie suggestion, probably over Jellicent. It's naturally faster than Scarf Jelli, so the loss of a Scarfer isn't a problem in any way whatsoever, while you add a mon who hits even harder than Jellicent does, thanks to the Specs. That's not the main reason I agree with it, though; the main reason I agree with it is because Choice teams need a Rapid Spinner. The move restrictions that come with Choice items mean that you're going to be switching around a ton, so as soon as Stealth Rock goes up, winning the game will become an up-hill climb, provided your opponent has a decent defensive core. Starmie is impossible to spinblock, because it can Trick its Specs onto the bulky ghosts that try to stop it [Jellicent, Dusclops]. If you can clear the field of hazards, your team, especially Tornadus, becomes a lot harder to stop. Ridding your opponent of his SR + [Toxic] Spikes also goes a long way in winning weather wars, especially against sand stall teams.
  22. MikeDecIsHere

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    Ok, here is the problem with Starmie.

    I have tested it, and while yes, it does make stall a bit easier to deal with, Starmie > Jellicent means that SD Lucario can straight up 6-0 me. Yes, a well played defensive core with Spikes can beat the team, but usually they have to have the perfect defensive core to do that.

    Starmie > Jellicent also makes Terrakion harder to play around, since I lose my only real Fighting attack switch in (Switching in Tornadus is way too risky).

    So yeah, while the Rapid Spin is nice, the price is really not worth it.
  23. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Btw Starmie can also switch into Terrakion. While it isn't immune like Jellicent, it can still take one CC and ohko back. Also in the case of CB Terrakion both Jellicent and Starmie are ohkoed from SE, so i don't think that with Starmie you will have a harder time than you had with Jellicent.

    But you are true that SD Lucario would become a huge problem but i guess that you could still handle it as long as you don't get locked into Pursuit with Scizor and HP Grass with Politoed, since everything else does too much to Lucario, which means that after he takes a hit to set-up, and the LO recoil, and the potential Def drop he will be in range of CB BP from Scizor.

    For example, Ferrothorn's worse move (PW) does 61.34 - 72.34% to Lucario, so Scizor can easily RK after. Politoed locked into Ice Beam does 31.56 - 37.23% to Lucario, and Lucario needs to ohko with CC, since ES can't ohko at full health (75.88 - 89.43%)(yeah i know that in the late-game Toed will be weakened but still it has the potential to live one ES, which the opponent doesn't want to), which means that Lucario will be left with 59,5% life at worst at -1 Def, so Scizor can come in and do 57.44 - 68.08% with BP(almost guaranteed ko). Tornadus obviously murders Lucario with every one of it's moves (you are not stupid enough to get locked into Tailwind with Lucarion in the opposing team i presume), and Rotom-W can also deal huge damage with every one if it's moves, and since it would be late-game, i am assuming that it will already have tricked its scarf away (Trick is the best option in the last slot, imo, since stall team are always a bitch to deal with). Finally assuming you don't get locked into Pursuit, Scizor's worst move would be BP, which does 38.29 - 45.39% to Lucario, which is an average of 83,68% damage in 2 turns, so Lucario will only have 1 hit more after he kills Scizor. I know that without Jellicent, Lucario is tricky, but it's not like it can't be played around.
  24. MikeDecIsHere

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    That's not true. Most of the time, it would be Terrakion in on Ferrothorn, Terrakion would predict Jellicent switch in, go for Stone Edge, and I OHKO with Gyro Ball or Power Whip. With CB CC, yes, Starmie can take one, but with no recovery, it can't switch in twice, and while it can OHKO Terrakion, the opponent can switch out. So yeah....Terrakion is harder to deal with.

    Also, since CB CC still hits Starmie, the opponent is less inclined to over predict.
  25. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Yeah you have a point, but still it may be worth a shot, if it is going to help you against stall and hazard abusing teams in general.

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