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Two Frogs in a Lake (peaked #1)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by ShootingStarmie, Jul 7, 2013.

  1. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    2 Frogs In A Lake
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Here's the screenshot of #1
    Show Hide


    Hi there Smogon, and welcome to my 2nd RMT! I'm here to bring you another team of mine which I have had extreme fun with while laddering on PS! This team got my requirements to vote on the Landorus-I suspect test while it has also helped me sit currently at #1 on the OU current ladder, so that gives a general idea of how successful the team has been for me so far. While this team is far from perfect, and has a few obvious flaws, I feel it's very anti-meta at this stage, which is why it has been so successful for me. Anyway, onto the team!

    Team building process

    Show Hide


    First off I just want to say that Smogon's new format doesn't allow more than 20 images, so this area looks a bit untidy. Sorry about that

    Okay, so I wanted to base a team around bulky Toxicroak. It is so good in this metagame right now, as it can counter top physical threats like Terrakion, Scizor, and Breloom. In goes Croak.

    Politoed was added because it aids Toxicroak in walling Fighting types, so it needed to be added to the team.

    Latias was added as it has great synergy with Toxicroak, as it takes on the Ground types aimed at it, like Landorus-I's Earth Power. Latias also really helps me against Sun team, which I seem to have trouble against when running Rain teams.

    Ferrothorn was added as it has great synergy with the rest of the team, and it my main source of hazards.

    Blastiose was added to keep hazards off of the field. There are a few reasons as to why I choose Blastiose over Tentecruel, but I'll expand more on that later.

    And finally I added Heatran. Now I know what you're thinking, but Heatran really does do a few key things for this team that no other Pokemon could offer. I was sketchy at first, but I tested it an it worked great.



    Now that's over and done with, lets take a closer look!


    A closer look

    [​IMG]
    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Protect
    - Perish Song

    This is just the standard bulky Politoed here, but instead of making it Physically defensive, I opted for a specially defensive set, since I was generally quite weak to special attackers like Gengar and Alakazam, which Politoed walls pretty well. Scald is STAB and is used to get a 30% burn. Ice beam is used so Dragon types don't set up on me, and I can hit Grass types like Breloom and Venusaur on the switch. Protect is for scouting purposes and gives me crucial Leftovers recovery, and finally Perish Song is used for a last ditch effort against bulky sweepers and baton pass teams.

    Politoed offers unmatched support, as it reduces Ferrothorn's Fire weakness, activates Blastiose's and Toxicroak's abilities, and in general is just a great Pokemon to switch into if you don't know what else to do. I'm not to sure on the move set, but I've been happy with it so far, and there aren't many other option's Politoed has.

    [​IMG]
    Toxicroak @ Leftovers
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 244 HP / 12 Spd / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Substitute
    - Toxic
    - Drain Punch
    - Bulk Up

    Toxicroak is so damn good. It just takes on so many Fighting types, while also being immune to Water type attacks, allowing it to switch in easily the majority of the time. 12 Spe EVs are used to outpace minimum speed Rotom-W, while the rest of my EVs are placed into physical defence and HP. Substitute is used in conjunction with Toxic to stall out Pokemon if it needs to be stalled, as with Dry Skin and Leftovers, I can make "free subs", while Toxic slowly kills the opposing Pokemon. Drain Punch is STAB and offers me nice recovery. Bulk Up is used to create a win situation for this team, as it's very slow paced and often lacks a good way to clean up, but once Skarmory and Gliscor have gone, it's sweeping time.

    I did run Ice Punch over Bulk Up, as it hits Gliscor and Landorus for pretty great damage, but I believe Bulk Up is the superior option for this team. Here's a few calcs to demonstrate how good Toxicroak is against top threats.

    Show Hide


    252Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) U-turn in Rain vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Dry Skin Toxicroak (+Def): 11% - 14% (44 - 52 HP). Guaranteed 9HKO.

    252Atk Life Orb +2 Lucario (+Atk) Close Combat in Rain vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Dry Skin Toxicroak (+Def): 63% - 74% (234 - 275 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252Atk Fight Gem Technician Breloom (+Atk) Focus Punch in Rain vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Dry Skin Toxicroak (+Def): 51% - 60% (189 - 223 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

    252Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Bullet Seed in Rain vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Dry Skin Toxicroak (+Def): 32% - 38% (120 - 144 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
    (that's 3 hits)

    252SpAtk Choice Specs Keldeo (Neutral) Secret Sword in Rain vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Dry Skin Toxicroak (+Def): 26% - 31% (97 - 115 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.

    252Atk Choice Band Terrakion (Neutral) Close Combat in Rain vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Dry Skin Toxicroak (+Def): 37% - 43% (137 - 162 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.




    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SDef / 248 HP / 8 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Lava Plume
    - Stealth Rocks
    - Roar
    - Toxic

    So, Heatran in Rain stall...have I gone mad? Regardless of that answer, Heatran offers support that no other Pokemon can offer for this team. Firstly it greatly helps me against Sun teams that lack Dugtrio. Heatran takes a huge dump on most Sun teams, and I in general don't like predicting with my weather starter, trying to win the weather war. It's just too risky. Anyway, let me explain the moveset and EVs. EVs make Heatran as specially bulky as possible, while hitting a nice HP number. Lava Plume is STAB and it used for it's 30% burn rate. Stealth Rocks is the greatest move in the game, and needs to be on your team. It's what keeps threats like Volcarona and Dragonite from sweeping me as easily. Roar is used for phazing Pokemon that could potentially 6-0 this team without Heatran, like SubCM Jirachi, SubCM Latias, and Volcarona. Toxic is used to hit the incoming bulky water type switch in to Heatran, usually something like their own Politoed, Jellicent, or Keldeo.


    [​IMG]
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 168 SDef / 252 HP / 88 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Gyro Ball
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect

    Ferrothorn is my main source of hazards. The EVs are standard to take both physical and special attacks. Gyro Ball is used to hit bulky sweep up sweepers, as I feel both Power Whip and Leech Seed are quite redundant, and Gyro Ball in general has better coverage and better accuracy. Spikes are set up when there's not much else to do, as they offer me a great deal of damage once all hazards are up. Leech Seed is used to sap away at the opponents health, force switches, and wear down spinners, which is crucial so that I can keep my hazards up on the field, and finally Protect is used for scouting purposes, Leftovers recovery, and Leech Seed recovery.


    [​IMG]
    Blastoise @ Leftovers
    Trait: Rain Dish
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic
    - Roar

    Blastoise is my Rapid Spinner, and does a great job in keeping hazards off of the field, as it's very bulky, and gets 12% recovery every turn if Rain is up. Scald is STAB and offers me a 30% burn, which is nice for Tentecruel switch ins. Rapid spin is used to keep hazards off of the field. Toxic is used for Jellicent and Sableye switch in's that try to block Rapid Spin, and finally, Roar is used to phaze threats and rack up on entry hazards damage. I made Blastoise physically defensive, as Politoed is specially defensive, so I thought it'd be more useful to made a physically defensive Blastiose.

    Now some people may think that Blastiose is outclassed by Tentecruel, but I didn't want to use Tentecruel mainly because of the bad synergy it shares with Toxicroak. Blastoise allows me to easily switch into Hippodown, Gliscor, and other Bulky Ground types that Tentecruel is afraid off, allowing me to easily Rapid Spin away their entry hazards. Blastiose can also phaze, which I believe is very helpful for racking up residual damage.

    [​IMG]
    Latias (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Psyshock
    - Roost
    - Reflect Type
    - Dragon Pulse

    This Latias set is pretty cool, and it's very very un-common. So let me try to explain this set. Like I said this team is very anti-meta, and this set basically gives a middle finger to the ever so common Landorus-I / Keldeo / Tyranitar core. Latias can switch into Landorus-I and Keldeo pretty easily, but people are put off using Latias as it's pursuit trapped. Well, with Reflect type, Latias turns the tables on Tyranitar, and gives me huge momentum, as nearly every Tyranitar is Choice banded, they are forced to switch and take more entry hazards damage, while I just easily switch into Politoed to get rain back up.

    Psyshock is here for a few reasons. It allows me to beat Keldeo, Breloom, and Terrakion if Toxicroak is down, and helps a lot in taking out Toxicroak and Venusaur in the Sun. Roost is used to keep me nice and healthy through-out the match. Reflect type allows me to turn the tables on Scizor, Tyranitar, SD Croak, and Leech Seed Ferrothorn. Dragon Pulse is STAB, although I think having both attacks is quick redundant, I'm not sure what else to put here (maybe CM or Wish?).

    Conclusion

    Well, there's the team guys. Like I said it's far from perfect, but I've had so much fun laddering with this team, and it's great to use these creative sets in such a stale metagame that is OU. Suggestions and feedback is welcomed, and dropping a Luvdisc would make my day :]

    Massive shoutout to Shartruce2 for suggesting the Toxicroak set to me in the first place, as well as giving me the idea for Reflect Type Latias. Thanks man
  2. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Reserved for threat list
  3. Lady Alex

    Lady Alex I asked Mawile to not hurt me. I was betrayed.
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    Hey, this is a pretty cool team. It's rare to see something like Heatran in the rain or Blastoise used in a way that benefits your team in a way that Tentacruel couldn't. You mentioned using Heatran in order to deal with Sub-CM Jirachi, but it will still actually be able to sweep you if it's the last Pokemon standing. I would suggest using Earth Power over Lava plume on heatran in order to fix that issue without doing too much to hurt your team. An opposing Ferrothorn is unlikely to stay in on Heatran even in the rain, so it seems like you mostly use it to fish for burns. Hope I helped.
  4. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Hey thanks for the rate Lady Alex. I admit running Lava Plume doesn't exactly stop Jirachi from sweeping me if it's the last Pokemon, and I don't think I'd miss the burns from Lava Plume too much, since I carry Toxic and Scald on my other Pokemon. I'll try Earth Power, thanks :]
  5. mrfelco

    mrfelco

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    when our battle started, i saw the blastoise and the heatran in the rain and i thought to myself, this battle should be easy. i couldn't have been more wrong. it's players like you who keep the meta alive by constantly reinventing standard pokemon and using seemingly outclassed pokemon effectively. Congrats on the peak!
    The only thing i don't understand is bulk up over ice punch on toxicroak. I was wondering if you can give me a hypothetical situation in which bulk up would be the preferred option?

    and also sub cm jirachi with thunder and water pulse. how would you deal with it?

    harsha edit: please don't double post, just use the edit button
  6. The Tyranitar

    The Tyranitar

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    Hey,
    I'll start off by saying I am very impressed. You were able to get to number one with an original team so congratulations. This team is really well built the only thing I can see being a slight problem is Alakazam but Latias does fairly well against it (although it doesn't enjoy shadow ball). Overall I say bravo to you good die, I can only suggest considering sucker punch on Toxicroak but otherwise kudos to you!
  7. Scene

    Scene reverie
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    Congrats on a great original team, I especially like the Latias set which I've never seen or even considered a possibility before. Likewise Blastoise and Heatran on rain stall sounds laughable, but as this team shows can work really well with the right support. The only thing I can suggest is to use 0 Atk IVs on Blastoise, Heatran, Politoed and Latias if you're not already. I prefer Power Whip on Ferro, but you've made a good case for Gyro so I'm not going to suggest a change. Again, great team.

    Oh, you should change your thread title to "peaked"!

    dragonuser edit: try not to double post
  8. Vertex

    Vertex

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    Cool Team!

    Your team is completely destroyed by a few threats. The first is Thundurus-T which actually can 6-0 your team with its Agility, SubPlot, or Double Booster sets. The second is Calm Mind Latias and Latios once Hetaran is gone and you'll have to watch out for Offensive SD Scizor as well since once it sets-up you lose 6-0 which is pretty unappealing and the last SubPunch Breloom and Calm Mind Reuniclus which are annoying. Since CM Reuniclus is rare, I'll skip this. DD sweepers can get past this team relatively easily especially conisdering your team doesn't have Choice Scarf user and same with Volcarona carrying Hidden Power. Seeing the lack of a spinblocker is a problem and also as well a check to these threats is frightening, so I have some suggestions.

    You should go for a Choice Scarf Landorus-T over your Latias. not only does it fit well with nature of this stall team, but provides some offense and a pivot pushing the momentum in your favor. You should also try Tentacruel over Blastoise as well. The problem about Blastoise is that it is mono-water which isnt that good in this metagame and it is completely eclipsed by Tentacruel who has a higher Special Defense and Speed. I'd like to see a faster EV spread that lets you outpace max speed Scizor since it is common today on your Heatran which is 248 SpD / 48 SpD / 212 Spe since you gain a little less bulk but outpacing Scizor, Magnezone, and Jellicent is best. Try out Taunt over Toxic as well since most pokemon will either be shuffled away or crippled by the appropriate switch. Finally, I fell Thunder Wave and Power Whip is best for stall team through my experience since they have trouble over faster threats. If you are hesistant of not using Blastoise, use Substitute over Toxic to spin pass Jellicent.

    This team is great and congratz on your peak! Good Luck!

    Summary of Changes
    • Heatran
      • Taunt > Toxic
      • 248 HP / 48 SpD / 212 Spe
    • Ferrothorn
      • Thunder Wave > Protect
      • Power Whip > Gyro Ball
    • Latias
      • Change to Choice Scarf Landorus-T
    • Blastoise (optional)
      • Change to Tentacruel
      • Substitute > Roar
  9. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Hey man, thanks for the rate and the kind words. You question how I use Bulk Up over Ice Punch, and it's generally just to create a win situation for this slow paced team, since I originally had Sub CM Latias as my bulky sweeper, but I was getting screwed over by the U-turn Landorus set, so things had to change. A few examples of when I would be using Bulk Up. Toxicroak can set up on a ton of threats, but there's no point until it's counters (Skarmiry, Hippowdown, etc) are eliminated. So, the Pokemon Toxicroak can set up on are generally Ferrothorn, Forretress, Jellicent lacking Taunt, Choice'd Politoed, Keldeo, Terrakion, Breloom, Scizor and then some. What I'm saying is that Bulk Up is and is usually easily set up, and after a few it's impossible to stop. I did already try out Ice Punch, but I like having a win condition. :]

    Also, hardly anyone runs Sub CM Water Pulse Thunder Jirachi, but I believe Heatran still takes it on very well, but yeah it could sweep me

    I also don't know how to reply to multiple posts, because of Smogon's new format so I'm sorry if this looks messy.

    @The Tyranitar

    Hey, thanks very much for the kind words man. Yeah Alakazam and Psychic types in general are pretty big threats, and I'll explain how I deal with everything soon, but for Alakazam Politoed can switch in pretty easily since it's SpDef set, and Latias can tank 2 hits and 2HKO. Again thanks for the kind words.

    @Vertex

    Hello, thanks for the rate man. Yeah, the team itself does have obvious flaws, and that's why I posted it in the RMT section :] Anyway, you're right, a well played Thundurus-T can 6-0 me, but it generally has to take SR damage, and Leech seed, since it's usually setting up on Ferrothorn. I guess it depends on the set really, since Latias in general is quite a good check. I'm not trying to justify that I'm not weak to it, because I am, but I'm just trying to say how I deal with it if I see it in team preview. CM Lati@s can be a big deal if Heatran is down, but I try my best to keep it around long enough to scout Lati@s, and deal with it from there. SD Scizor is actually took on pretty well not only by Heatran, but by Toxicroak and Blastoise (well not well, but they can deal with it). DD sweepers are a pain, but Ferrothorn does 'decently' against them, but you are right. I really like Landorus-T in general as a whole, so I will definitely try it over Latias. Although Tentecruel is a great spinner, I already tested it, and tbh I just missed Blastoise too much, as the Ground weakness is something I really want to avoid.

    Thanks for the solid rates so far guys!
  10. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Gravity releases me
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    Lol I actually met a variant of this team on the ladder, and LO AND BEHOLD I swept it with SubCM Thunder + WPulse Jirachi :/ Thankfully, it's not all that common, like you said.
    (the variant was weird though he had Volc > Tran, Latios > Latias and some kind of weird offensive Politoed)

    Anyway hey there SS!

    This is a very solid team despite the SubCM Jirachi weakness, and it's not very standard either, so nice work! The only nitpick here is that I'm not quite sure Latias really does all that much for your team. Latias's defensive ability to defeat Sun, fighting-types, and Lando-I seems compounded with the rest of your team. Being that this team is quite defensive, some anti-stall Pokemon will definitely give you trouble, so I suggest you use Latias for some offensive measures so you have the firepower to take down those threats instead of what it does now. For example, Magic Guard Reuniclus could quickly spell the end of this team, as it doesn't care at all about Leech Seed or Toxic or whatever indirect damage you try to throw at it. Magic Bounce Xatu could also be annoying, as it can simply just reflect any status or hazards you try to set up. Your team relies too much on indirect damage and lacks enough fire power to muscle past those anti-stallmons. To fix this, I would probably try giving Latias Calm Mind instead of Psyshock. Calm Mind gives Latias a job other than acting as a secondary check to fighting types and Sun, and gives you a solid, reliable late game cleaner that can quickly end a team weakened by hazards and Toxic. Calm Mind's offensive potential will definitely enable Latias to help the team more than she already does without sacrificing any of her previous jobs (such as checking Lando-I and Keldeo).

    Also, one last thing. Toxic on Toxicroak seems really redundant, especially since Heatran and Blastoise already carry it. I would suggest that you use Sucker Punch instead for some needed sweeper-checking priority and a way to finish off weakened foes as well as semi-check anti-stallmons that are usually Psychic-type and weak to Sucker Punch. Sucker Punch is a great panic button in case you just need to finish off that 10% from DD Mence or Growth Venasaur, and can also be used in tandem with Bulk Up to make Toxicroak a nearly unstoppable sweeper. Ice Punch is another option for you to try to let you hit Flying-types that can absorb your Drain Punch, but Sucker Punch is a better idea because it has uses other than just being a plain coverage move.

    And, regarding your weakness to SubCM Jirachi- and any potentially threatening sweeper in general- would be to play conservatively with Toed, Heatran, and Blastoise and to try to keep hazards up so you can use Roar and forced switches to wear it down before it becomes a threat.

    Cool team, SS. Congrats on the peak.
  11. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    I agree with electrolyte on Calm Mind on Latios, it would help a lot vs a variety of borderline threats to this team, as well as possibly late game sweeping which fits well onto this sort of semi-stall style you have going.

    A bit of a lame suggestion, but I am thinking Stealth Rock Chansey or Blissey would function better than Heatran on this team, currently this team has a bit of a problem with strong special attackers and they would fix that up rather nicely from what I see, their special weaknesses like Venusaur and Latios are covered by other Pokemon rather nicely to boot. A bit of a problem with this admittedly is your weakness to Jirachi is increased, and Blissey is a rather large target for strong physical attackers to come in, and your team doesn't have the strongest backbone. Still, it is something to at least toy with IMO, I think it would be better overall for the team. (if you do this, be sure to run physically defensive Politoed)

    I also suggest you try out Ice Beam on Blastiose to help against dragons, as this team looks a tad weak to them, having pretty much only Ferrothorn to wall sort of and Latios to check Garchomp.
  12. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    @Electrolyte

    Hey, thanks for the rate man, it's always great hearing rates from you. I really think Calm Mind is a great idea on Latias, as it still fills it's role to mess with Tyranitar, and Psyshock isn't really needed when I have Toxicroak around to take on Breloom and Keldeo. I also really like your Toxicroak suggestion, as Toxic is already on Heatran and Blastoise, and I can see the benifits in running Sucker Punch. You actually hit the nail on the head with how I use this team, by setting up hazards, phazing Pokemon out, until they are at low enough HP for them not to sweep, so yeah that was pretty accurate.

    @Scarfwynaut

    Hey, thanks for dropping by and giving me a rate. I can see Chansey / Blissey working in some scenarios, but in general I like being able to phaze with Heatran. I just know as soon as I start testing Chansey, I'm going to get 6-0d by CM Latias and CM Jirachi, lol. But nerveless, I will test it out, because I believe that's the best way to move a team forward. I've actually really thought Blastoise could use Ice Beam, as then I'd have a very good secondary check to DD Dragon type Pokemon, so I will be testing this too.

    Thanks for all the rates so far guys, and I plan to keep you updated on how the tests go :]
  13. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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    hi,

    Congratulations for your peak, im sure this team is good so i shouldnt be here rating it. However, i got an idea looking at your team, which is replacing your fire type. I know heatran does some few things for you even under rain, such as phazing and setting up stealth rock, but overall i think its a waste of a slot. you are just not going to hit everything hard, and you wont face a sun team in every battle. also, lets be honest, like half of sun teams use dugtrio, so it isnt even the best check in the world (maybe shed shell? idk) and in general if a sun team doesnt have dugtrio, it has hp ground volcarona or eq venusaur, which both beats you anyway. You probably never faced a good one on showdown but i assure you that heatran is the first thing a sun team wants to beat, so putting an heatran its not the solution imo.
    What i think you can try is Moltres. Moltres is an underrated threath which still let you have a ninetales switch in and something to beat volcarona, steel types and so on. Its also not weak to dugtrio, and generally sun teams doesnt run anything to beat it other than heatran... which cant touch you anyway. What you get its a powerfull hurricane that seriously dent anything, and if you use the sub roost set you will also get a nice staller set, in combination with pressure it wont be difficult to ppstall something like stone edge from cbtar and so on.
    Now, i'll try to fix the holes this change gives to you. the lack of stealth rock can be easily fixed giving them over protect on ferrothorn, which isnt a bad idea at all.
    Now the most difficult one to fix is your calm mind jirachi weakness. Honestly i cant put a ground type so ill just recommend you to use a different set on latias to try to beat it on a calm mind war. A set of surf-dragon pulse-calm mind-roost should work. Basically unless you got extremely unlucky with the paralisis, at+6 you do 27%-32% to a +6 jirachi, while it only does 10%-12% with psychic at +6.
    as a last thing, when i used blastoise i found protect more usefull than toxic. its like using a tentacruel without it (and without sub) and you never see one. protect really helps your blastoise staying alive during the battle and i think its really important to a spinner.
    Hope you enjoy my idea and gl with it!
    [​IMG]
    Moltres @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Fire Blast
    Stealth rock over protect on [​IMG]
    Protect over toxic on [​IMG]
  14. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Hey Neliel, thanks for the awesome rate man. You've actually giving me a great idea, and I'm definitely going to be testing out Moltres, as it still takes on most of the threats that Heatran took on, but I think I'm going to experiment with the moveset and EVs. If I do decide to use Moltres, your SR suggestion on Ferrothorn makes sense, and I like the idea of Protect on Blastoise too, so I will be testing. I really really like the Moltres suggestion, thanks man
  15. Jusnic

    Jusnic

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    Hey, I have a quick question. How do you take down a Reuniclus with your team? Sure you can phaze it away, but how do you go about getting any significant damage on it?
  16. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    Yeah, Reuniclus is a big threat, but the way I usually beat it is wait until it's the last Pokemon and just Perish Song. While this isn't reliable on paper, it's the best my team can offer. Until it's the last Pokemon, Heatran can just keep phazing (and Blastoise).
  17. Vertex

    Vertex

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    Hey!

    Just a minor nitpick, but Blastoise should really use Dragon Tail over Roar, since most Substitute users like Dragonite are hard walled by Heatran, so Dragon Tail is a nice boost, since it phazes and gets extra damage off which would be really useful for a Bulk Up Toxicroak sweep.

    Summary of Changes
    • Blastoise
      • Dragon Tail > Roar
    qaws likes this.
  18. qaws

    qaws

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  19. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
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    You should probably replace Stealth Rock with Earthpower or substitute on your heatran and give Ferrothorn the rocks. your main way you take advantage of hazards is by roaring away pokes that you have a good matchup with to rack up entry hazards. against offensive teams they won't switch that often, and can set up on your spikes. ultimately what im saying is that spikes won't win you the game and could lose you some momentum since ferrothorn can set up rocks much easier and more efficiently than heatran.

    additionally, i would try to place calm mind on latias somewhere. opposing boosting special attacks do some damage to your team and cm on lati could help against them.
  20. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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    @Vertex

    Hey thanks for the suggesion man. Yeah the only time I can see Roar being superior is agianst Sub Disable, so I probably will change it to Dragon Tail, thanks.

    @qaws

    :]

    @Chimpact

    Yeah I've had CM Latias suggested to me a ton, and I really think if so many people are suggesting it it must be good right? Also the suggestion about dropping Spikes for SR I feel only helps out against offensive teams, but against every other team archetype, it's helping me out a ton, since their my main form of damage, so I'm not too sure on dropping Spikes, but thanks for the rate and suggestions.

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