Type Reflectors

[Cuddly]

Ok so it is high time I share my Fighting Reflector team I made as I am having quite a bit of fun with it and we runbabyrun should start building an archive of teams for people to try (should this happen to ever win OMotM :o)

Anyways, onto the team...

Combative Measures

(A Fighting Reflector Offense Team)

Lucario @

Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch / Iron Tail
- Extreme Speed

Lucario is a really solid Fighting Reflector with the lack of "popular" ones. This is the Reflector for the team as well as the Primary Fairy killer. Swords Dance can power through a lot of bulkier Steel Reflector teams while providing fast priority. The choice of Bullet Punch or Iron Tail is strictly based on being able to plow through frail offense or through bulky walls.

Gengar @

Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Destiny Bond / Memento
- Sludge Wave

Gengar is a nice addition as it can switch in on a few of Lucario's weaknesses thanks to its Ghost typing and its ability, Levitate. It also provides special wallbreaking power to get rid of physical walls that can switch into Lucario. Ghost + Fighting also has amazing neutral coverage, allowing Gengar to use its straight power and speed to hit hard and fast. Destiny Bond or Memento allows Gengar to provide the team with some needed support by taking down a major threat with its fast Speed or by giving Mega Gyarados and Lucario setup opportunities. Sludge Wave was added as a lure to Fairies, but this is basically filler.

Landorus-Therian @

Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock

Landorus provides the team with Stealth Rock support and a nice defensive pivot that has quite a bit of power. While it doesn't run a Fighting-type move, the Fighting type synergizes nicely by providing a Dark-, Rock-, and Bug-type resist while retaining the immunity to Electric moves, making it a nice VoltTurn deterrent.

Tornadus-Therian @

Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 96 HP / 160 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Heat Wave

Tornadus-Therian has Hawlucha's typing, great coverage, and decent special bulk with an Assault Vest equipped, allowing it to act as a pivot for special attackers that may threaten Landorus-Therian. Hurricane is a nice and powerful move that hits hard while STAB Superpower can bop special walls predicting a Hurriance. U-turn gives Torn-T its pivoting power and Heat Wave is strictly for Steel Reflector mons that have a neutrality or immunity to Superpower.

->

Gyarados-Mega @

Ability: Intimidate -> Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Mega Gyarados is one of the better Megas for a Fighting Reflector team as it can provide a Psychic immunity and a way around immunities such as Levitate thanks to Mold Breaker. Gyarados's bulk is absolutely astounding and is welcomed on this frail offensive team as it can come in on strong physical attackers and neuter them with Intimidate while it sets up. It also provides ok synergy after Mega Evolving now that it doesn't share a typing with its teammates.

Thundurus @

Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch / Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast

Thundurus is the stallbreaker for the team. Taunt + Thunder Wave cripples a lot of setup sweepers and forces them to tank a powerful STAB Focus Blast or out into a check, which Thundurus then can Volt Switch out on. Thunderbolt provides more staying power at the cost of being able to pivot. Thundurus is sadly the most expendable member, but it provides a nice typing giving it a Flying neutrality and Thunder Wave immunity. It also trades a Rocks weakness for a Rocks resist which is really nice.

Replays

nv vs. Ethansun8818
nv vs. Eternally
nv vs. Atael

Importable

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Extreme Speed

Gengar @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Destiny Bond

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 8 SpD / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock

Tornadus-Therian @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 96 HP / 160 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Heat Wave

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Thundurus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast

Your post is very impressive and well thought out, like your team, but my I suggest taking a look into possible ways to beat Tornadus-T. Sure you have Thundurus with prankster T-wave and revenge-speed, but aside from those, Tornadus-T out-speeds/ties with all your Pokemon and doing massive damage. Other wise, this seems like a really good team.

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

Your post is very impressive and well thought out, like your team, but my I suggest taking a look into possible ways to beat Tornadus-T. Sure you have Thundurus with prankster T-wave and revenge-speed, but aside from those, Tornadus-T out-speeds/ties with all your Pokemon and doing massive damage. Other wise, this seems like a really good team.

Well, he also has mega gyarados to set up on and ko it, and his own Tornadus-t. Honestly I'd be more concerned about clefable, elthough he does have gengar as an emergency measure

 

[Superjustinbros]

A bit late, but congrats on the feature; this metagame has already captured my interests quite well.

 

[Angry2]

A little nitpick from me..
But in the Lcotm, It is written as Type Reflector instead of Reflectors, I know it doesn't really matter but it made it kinda hard when I tried to found my teams and it said I did not have any teams (I put it in rom in the Type reflectors yet when I tried in the lc I wasn't able to)
I know it doesn't really matter, but I just wanted to point it out. :p

 

[Sobi]

A little nitpick from me..
But in the Lcotm, It is written as Type Reflector instead of Reflectors, I know it doesn't really matter but it made it kinda hard when I tried to found my teams and it said I did not have any teams (I put it in rom in the Type reflectors yet when I tried in the lc I wasn't able to)
I know it doesn't really matter, but I just wanted to point it out. :p

A similar question was asked in the Bug Reports thread; this was The Immortal's response.

What about EXTREME Tier Shift? It doesn't match either! The point is that they don't have to match. A couple of past OMs have been renamed when they went on the main server.

 

[The Immortal]

zzz any server can name stuff however it wants, doesn't mean the main server has to follow. Similarly, I can name formats on the main server as I see fit. The plural form made no sense; I even asked a couple of people before deciding. Whether or not runbabyrun wants to rename this thread is his prerogative.

If you haven't already, you can change your team's format to "Type Reflector" on the main server's teambuilder.

Anyways, enough about that and on with the meta discussion.

 

[Cuddly]

Well, he also has mega gyarados to set up on and ko it, and his own Tornadus-t. Honestly I'd be more concerned about clefable, elthough he does have gengar as an emergency measure

I won't deny that Clefable is a worry for this team, but depending on the Reflected Type of the Clefable, this team imo can deal with it better.

0 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (Steel)Clefable: 260-308 (65.9 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (Steel)Clefable: 328-386 (83.2 - 97.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (Steel)Clefable: 220-259 (55.8 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (Any that is Neutral to Steel)Clefable: 367-432 (93.1 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb (Fighting)Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD (Steel)Clefable: 216-255 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb (Fighting)Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD (Any that is Neutral to Poison)Clefable: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Also, depending on which Gyarados Form you are in, you either take 89% from Hurricane on the best roll
160 SpA Tornadus-T Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD (Fighting)Gyarados: 296-350 (89.4 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

Or 2HKOed by Super Power when Stealth Rock is up, even if the Tornadus-T doesn't get a Fighting type
0 Atk Tornadus-T Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 160-190 (48.3 - 57.4%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
-1 0 Atk Tornadus-T Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 108-128 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 98.5% chance to 3HKO
57.4+38.6+12.5=108.5
0 Atk (Fighting)Tornadus-T Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 240-284 (72.5 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The only way Gyarados wins is by hoping Tornadus-T is out of battle and start setting up.
I still recommend looking out for both, but say that Tornadus-T's speed needs to be looked out especially.

 

[jamashawalker]

People need to stop adding coverage moves to their Mega Lopunny. In this metagame there is no need for ice punch/thunderpunch etc. There is rarely (if ever) a situation where someone will be 4x weak to those moves. Lopunny now has the freedom to run its amazing support movepool. Healing wish, encore, power up punch, baton pass

 

[Blazenix]

I apologize if this has been sorted out before but , Normal spam is ridiculously powerful. Its sort of like metagamiate where everything gets STAB boost on all normal moves while here u just becomes part normal. Things like noivern with choice specs gets stab on boomburst and dragonite with extreme speed gets stab on it to. Conk is no far behind with its high base attack stat , now gaining STAB facade with guts that packs enough power to KO physically defensive clefable. Ghost surely are immune to normal spam but surely almost every mon on the team can get coverage to deal with them as well. But all this is just my personal thinking I would like to know what others think about it.

 

[Ghoul King]

Normal spam isn't really all that effective. Your powerful Normal moves can't be super effective, limiting their potential damage output, Normal spam teams lose their only good point when faced against Ghost or, to a lesser extent, Steel or Rock type teams, and even scenarios like STAB boosted Extreme Speed aren't actually all that viable. Lucario is the only OU-legal Extreme Speeder with boosting greater than +1 in a turn, and Fighting/Normal with no Scrappy is... deeply flawed, especially since Skarmory is one of the more common Steel team leaders and can survive +2 Close Combat even without Sturdy.

Boomburst only has one actually good user -Noivern- and Flying/Normal isn't exactly fantastic, especially since its Fire coverage shares being resisted by Rock types, leading to stuff like Tyranitar able to switch in on literally anything it does. Nor can it break Chansey without Trick-Choicing it in specific.

In most cases these Pokemon really either aren't very good or have better things to be doing with their time or have competition. If I'm entirely frank, I'd rather put Linoone on a Ghost team than create a Normal team with Lucario. Normal is narrow in its good combinations defensively, and only has value offensively if you're adding STAB to strong Normal moves, which always have limited distribution. (Bar arguably Facade, but Guts does have limited distribution, and a non-Guts Facader is iffy)

Normal is further hampered by secondary considerations -Flying is one of the better types for it to combine with(In particular, being the best possible "not weak to Fighting" type when considering Mega Lopunny and Pangoro can use Scrappy to hit Ghost/Normal super effectively), but only Noivern and Tornadus can be a Flying/Normal type on a Normal team, bar using a Normal/Flying type as your type defining leader. Steel is a fantastic defensive type... that combines badly with Normal.

If you want a powerful offensive type, Dark is probably better. Dark Landorus-Therian's Knock Off is ludicrously powerful, and removing items means even resists dislike switching into it (Bar some Megas), Conkeldurr is right behind it/ahead of it with Guts Flame Orb, and Dark combines well with several good types. Flying/Dark Tornadus-Therian is actually quite useful, for instance. Dark's main flaw is that it combines somewhat poorly with Steel as a defensive type -though honestly I'd argue it does better than Normal in that regard.

STAB on moves like Pursuit and Sucker Punch is nothing to sneeze at either.

 

[Scarf]

IMO Normal teams with a Mega Lopunny lead is so dangerous. You've got the natural ghost and steel answer in Scrappy Lopunny (Objectively also the best available Scrappy Pokemon) that also functions as an ideal lead. Normal teams aren't necessarily defined by X lead + as many Boomburst / E-Speed users as possible. Those teams tend to be built poorly (I'm talking about the ever so threatening banded Arcanine Dragonite core stuff you've probably seen on the ladder). Normal has so many different potential move / Pokemon combination that dish out lethal amounts of damage. Facade Conkeldurr:

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 271-321 (68.7 - 81.4%)
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 172 Def Clefable: 417-492 (105.8 - 124.8%) [standard magic guard]
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 348-411 (88.5 - 104.5%) [unaware wall]
-1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 207-244 (54.1 - 63.8%)
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 255-301 (60.7 - 71.6%)

its kinda late so maybe ill edit the post with more calcs tomorrow but the point in Normal has a lot more potential, and Lopunny as a lead is so perfect, it gives Normal everything it could want (Ways to destroy the steel and ghost type / a good Normal lead to pass the type on / can set up the most likely HO team well with its support movepool). So don't count it out just yet

 

[Jay-Z Blade]

A ghost/normal gengar would be pretty beast. As there is no weaknesses

 

[Quantum Tesseract]

A ghost/normal gengar would be pretty beast. As there is no weaknesses

First off, it is weak to dark.
Secondly, normal ghost has been brought up.
Finally, gengar vastly prefers things like fighting for its perfect coverage. Normal gengar probably isn't bad, but it's mediocre as far as gengar a other options go.

 

[Ghoul King]

team talk

I've been having fun with a Ghost team, and there's a number of interesting aspects to talk about -for instance, I've counter-intuitively struggled most consistently with Fairy and Steel type Pokemon/teams, rather than Dark or Ghost- but one of the biggest, most relevant things is...

Mega Lopunny

On every level Mega Lopunny has been hugely influential on how I've constructed my team, more so than any single other Pokemon in the meta.

As an enemy

It's tempting to make your Physical walls Dark/Ghost and/or Steel/Ghost. Mandibuzz and Skarmory are amazing Physical walls that are both a great stop to most every unboosted Physical attacker to be found, and they even make for a good pair, as Mandibuzz's only weakness is Fairy, which Skarmory resists. Mandibuzz can actually shrug off most Knock Offs, often able to Roost right through them, even powerful STAB Knock Offs, making it a very tempting wall for a Ghost team. However, if your Physical walls are only of these types, you're at significant risk of being 6-0ed by Mega Lopunny. It doesn't even need to run High Jump Kick to 2HKO them!

This isn't a niche consideration, either, as Mega Lopunny can be slapped into literally any team regardless of added type and retain full functionality, and I'd argue only Dark and maybe Fighting teams consider Mega Lopunny unappealing. Other teams might overall prefer different Megas, but it's not as if Mega Lopunny actually suffers from being attached to a Steel or Dragon team.

It is of course immune to your default team STAB of Ghost. Normally Normal types are actually pretty unthreatening to a Ghost team, because they can't touch your Ghosts with their most powerful attacks (Boomburst, Frustration, Facade, etc) while Ghost attacks cap out at 80 BP anyway so mutual STAB immunity overall favors the Ghosts, but Mega Lopunny is very much an exception and is, in fact, completely impossible to resist both its STABs, particularly in a Ghost team, which can't even get a hold of the likes of unmodified Skarmory. (Which resists Normal while being neutral to Fighting, and thus fairly effectively walls Mega Lopunny that are running Drain Punch over High Jump Kick)

It also is so fast that it can easily outspeed most non-Scarfed Pokemon, making it difficult to even revenge it. Gengar's your team leader? Yeah, too slow, OHKOed by Return/Frustration.

As Mega Lopunny exists, a Ghost team needs to have Physical walls that are reliant on strong neutral bulk rather than favorable typing to successfully tank Mega Lopunny -Hippowdon, Slowbro, and Tangrowth are some of the better possibilities. Mega Altaria is also worth noting, particularly as it combines well with a Ghost team in general -once Mega Evolved, it resists the ever-problematic Dark type, and Fairy offense is of course great for threatening otherwise-tricky Dark teams.

Second place goes to Pangoro, which is a Scrappy Fighting type no matter what team goes on it while not consuming the Mega slot (And having impressive Attack, just below Mega Lopunny's but with the potential to bolster it with Life Orb or Choice Band and actually pull ahead), and third place goes to Kangaskhan, Miltank, and Stoutland, all of which have some potential on, if nothing else, Fighting teams, again as a Scrappy Fighting attacker that does not consume a Mega slot. Keep in mind whether your Mega Lopunny check is an adequate check to the likes of these, as well, or make sure other Pokemon on your team can fulfill the role.

As an ally

Somewhat surprisingly, Mega Lopunny is a fantastic ally to Ghost teams. The two types a Ghost team most consistently struggles with are of course Ghost and Dark, and Mega Lopunny is immune to the first and resistant to the second, making it surprisingly competent at switching in safely into opponents that threaten the entire rest of your team. Meanwhile it brings powerful STAB Fighting that cannot be ignored to bear against opposing Ghost/Normals and Ghost/Darks that may otherwise suck momentum from you, has a fantastic utility movepool that it honestly might as well run something from since its coverage isn't very useful in Type Reflectors (Ice Punch is actually 2 BP weaker than Return/Frustration against something like a Dragon type, thanks to the hidden 2 extra BP on every move), and if you're running Drain Punch it's shocking how often it can switch in, soak a hit, and come back to do it again later, having fully healed itself with a Drain Punch.

Only Mega Gyarados, Mega Altaria, and Mega Audino provide a similar capacity to consistently resist and threaten anti-Ghost threats, and I'd argue none of them does the job as well as Mega Lopunny. Mega Gyarados is resistant to both relevant types (Slightly worse than being immune to one and resistant to the other), but in spite of its superior bulk it actually has worse longevity, having no way to heal itself, and it doesn't actually have a STAB super effective move for Dark types, allowing individual Dark Pokemon to consistently, safely switch into it. Mega Audino is just kind of depressing in Singles in general, while Mega Altaria has no actual advantage against opposing Ghost types.

The most obvious benefits are dramatically improving your Ghost teams matchup against opposing Dark and Ghost teams -without turning to a Mega (Specifically, Mega Altaria or Mega Pinsir), literally everything on a Dark team will be, at best, neutral to Fighting, essentially requiring them to turn to Pokemon like Weezing if they want a Physical wall able to switch into Mega Lopunny. Ghost teams often fall prey to expecting Dark/Ghost and Steel/Ghost walls to be adequate for their Physical needs, to the point that Mega Lopunny can 6-0 some of the ladder's Ghost teams all by itself, and Normal/Ghost is, unsurprisingly, a common find on Ghost teams, one that Mega Lopunny also rips apart.

While Normal teams aren't a huge threat to your Ghost team anyway, Mega Lopunny is still able to 6-0 a lot of them, especially since Normal teams are especially guilty of relying on a Ghost to protect them from Fighting and leaving it at that. Theoretically STAB Extreme Speed should be a problem, but...

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite (Normal type) Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 231-273 (85.2 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

... yes, Adamant Normal type Choice Band Dragonite only has a 6.3% chance of getting a OHKO with Extreme Speed. You'll crit more often than you'll get a high enough regular damage roll. This is the strongest possible first-turn Extreme Speed in Type Reflectors, note, as only Ubers exceed Dragonite in Attack.

However, Mega Lopunny is also a big improvement to your matchup against Steel teams, particularly the ones foolish enough to rely solely on a Ghost for their anti-Fighting needs, and in general brings a lot of utility in Fake Out and so on. In general, Fighting is an amazing attacking type, and with Scrappy the obvious Ghost/type-weak-to-Fighting combinations don't even slow you down.

If you're a Ghost team, Mega Lopunny is huge, all around. Use it, fear it.

 

[wooperboy60]

Spike Stacking seems really potent in this meta.

The only Primary Flying types are Torn and Noivern, meaning that on most teams, just about every non-Levitater is susceptible to them. Also I'd like to mention that Stealth Rock don't seem like they'd be nearly as powerful as they were before, as Pokemon now have ways to get around SR-weak typings.

Because of this, I've been playing around with Hazard Lead Scolipede on a Ghost team and it's been a ton of fun. If your opponent is running a Spinner as their only form of hazard removal, they have no chance to prevent their mons from losing 12-25% each time they switch in, which is absolutely insane.

I've also been running Bisharp in the back to punish Defoggers, as the added Ghost typing gets rid of the hugely pesky Fighting weakness.

 

[FOZ369]

Like many others, I also run a ghost team. And Mega Lopunny used to be a significant threat to my team, but then I changed the reflector of my team from Gengar to Cofagrigus. So when Lopunny attacks Cofagrigus and gets Mummy, the rest of my team (excluding my mega) effectively walls that Mega Lopunny.

So every time a defensive Cofagrigus switches into a Mega Lopunny, unless the Lopunny switches or baton passes, the Cofagrigus user will 100% of the time gain the momentum. And Cofagrigus has good options to choose from as it can can willo, pain split, or set up toxic spikes.

 

[Ghoul King]

Spike Stacking seems really potent in this meta.

The only Primary Flying types are Torn and Noivern, meaning that on most teams, just about every non-Levitater is susceptible to them. Also I'd like to mention that Stealth Rock don't seem like they'd be nearly as powerful as they were before, as Pokemon now have ways to get around SR-weak typings.

Because of this, I've been playing around with Hazard Lead Scolipede on a Ghost team and it's been a ton of fun. If your opponent is running a Spinner as their only form of hazard removal, they have no chance to prevent their mons from losing 12-25% each time they switch in, which is absolutely insane.

I've also been running Bisharp in the back to punish Defoggers, as the added Ghost typing gets rid of the hugely pesky Fighting weakness.

Thanks to this post, I've tweaked my Stealth Rock Skarmory to a Spikes Skarmory. It's considerably more effective, able to get in real damage on Steel and Ground teams, and only occasionally actually hampered compared to when I had Stealth Rock on it. Tornadus is usually Tornadus-Therian anyway, and so even if it retains a Rock weakness (eg when it shows up on Dark teams) Regenerator means it can usually shrug off Stealth Rock damage anyway, while Noivern isn't even really a threat to my team. As such, only Levitators have presented a problem of any kind at all. (I've yet to fight a Flying team) Well, and the occasional case of the team leader being a Flying type, such as Skarmory or Hawlucha. Overall it's been a huge improvement, though, particularly against Steel teams, which previously always had the hazards advantage against my team.

Gengar and the Latis are, incidentally, the only Levitators I've seen in the meta so far, and the Latis have mostly cropped up on Steel teams, where Stealth Rock does negligible damage to them/the entire team, so it really has been quite rare for it be any kind of loss at all.

The ability to have Skarmory sit in front of an enemy and Spikes stack before Whirlwinding them out has been quite nice a few times.

 

[Ghoul King]

Bug report. Tagging The Immortal .

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/typereflector-368563785

Zoroark effectively announces itself if it has no primary Dark teammates, as its true primary typing is still announced, rather than the primary typing of whatever it is pretending to be. This severely limits the utility of Illusion/Zoroark if the opponent is paying attention.

 

[GangStark]

=== [typereflector] Untitled 2 ===

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Bug]

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock

Heliolisk @ Choice Specs
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Hyper Voice
- Surf
- Thunderbolt

Goodra @ Assault Vest
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Muddy Water

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Baton Pass

Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Dragon Pulse
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain

EDITED

-UmbrionKnight

 

[Jajoken]

I think rain could have potential, but your team lacks a few things all rain teams need.

1. You have zero Swift Swim users. In fact, the only ability that benefits from rain being active is Dry Skin, which isn't terribly useful because Heliolisk often doesn't stay in long enough to appreciate the passive recovery.
2. Only half of your team has Water STAB. Most of the 'mons you picked would work fine on a Water team (I think), but if you aren't spamming Water STAB, you shouldn't be using Rain.
3. You have three Fire moves. Your rain is actively decreasing your own damage output.

 

[GangStark]

I think rain could have potential, but your team lacks a few things all rain teams need.

1. You have zero Swift Swim users. In fact, the only ability that benefits from rain being active is Dry Skin, which isn't terribly useful because Heliolisk often doesn't stay in long enough to appreciate the passive recovery.
2. Only half of your team has Water STAB. Most of the 'mons you picked would work fine on a Water team (I think), but if you aren't spamming Water STAB, you shouldn't be using Rain.
3. You have three Fire moves. Your rain is actively decreasing your own damage output.

My idea was to make a defensive team which helped cover typings. If you can build upon it, go ahead. I'm no pro at it, lol

 

[Jajoken]

My idea was to make a defensive team which helped cover typings. If you can build upon it, go ahead. I'm no pro at it, lol

In that case, I'd just ditch Politoed and bring in a better Water type that doesn't set rain, like Keldeo, for the lead slot. Rain actively hinders half your team (Landorus, Sylveon and Serperior) because they can't take advantage of it, so the only effect it has on them is taking more damage from opposing Water moves. The other half of your team benefits from rain, but barely.

If you'd like to still do a rain team, consider dropping your Fire moves for similar coverage (HP Ground, for instance) and maybe add some Pokemon that benefit from it, like Beartic, Armaldo or existing Water-type Swift Swim users. You could even use stuff that abuses Thunder or Hurricane, like Mega Ampharos and Tornadus. The thing about Politoed is that it's only good for the support it provides, and it's currently not providing enough to your team to consider using for what a mediocre 'mon it is on its own terms.

 

[jamashawalker]

team talk

I've been having fun with a Ghost team, and there's a number of interesting aspects to talk about -for instance, I've counter-intuitively struggled most consistently with Fairy and Steel type Pokemon/teams, rather than Dark or Ghost- but one of the biggest, most relevant things is...

Mega Lopunny

On every level Mega Lopunny has been hugely influential on how I've constructed my team, more so than any single other Pokemon in the meta.

As an enemy

It's tempting to make your Physical walls Dark/Ghost and/or Steel/Ghost. Mandibuzz and Skarmory are amazing Physical walls that are both a great stop to most every unboosted Physical attacker to be found, and they even make for a good pair, as Mandibuzz's only weakness is Fairy, which Skarmory resists. Mandibuzz can actually shrug off most Knock Offs, often able to Roost right through them, even powerful STAB Knock Offs, making it a very tempting wall for a Ghost team. However, if your Physical walls are only of these types, you're at significant risk of being 6-0ed by Mega Lopunny. It doesn't even need to run High Jump Kick to 2HKO them!

This isn't a niche consideration, either, as Mega Lopunny can be slapped into literally any team regardless of added type and retain full functionality, and I'd argue only Dark and maybe Fighting teams consider Mega Lopunny unappealing. Other teams might overall prefer different Megas, but it's not as if Mega Lopunny actually suffers from being attached to a Steel or Dragon team.

It is of course immune to your default team STAB of Ghost. Normally Normal types are actually pretty unthreatening to a Ghost team, because they can't touch your Ghosts with their most powerful attacks (Boomburst, Frustration, Facade, etc) while Ghost attacks cap out at 80 BP anyway so mutual STAB immunity overall favors the Ghosts, but Mega Lopunny is very much an exception and is, in fact, completely impossible to resist both its STABs, particularly in a Ghost team, which can't even get a hold of the likes of unmodified Skarmory. (Which resists Normal while being neutral to Fighting, and thus fairly effectively walls Mega Lopunny that are running Drain Punch over High Jump Kick)

It also is so fast that it can easily outspeed most non-Scarfed Pokemon, making it difficult to even revenge it. Gengar's your team leader? Yeah, too slow, OHKOed by Return/Frustration.

As Mega Lopunny exists, a Ghost team needs to have Physical walls that are reliant on strong neutral bulk rather than favorable typing to successfully tank Mega Lopunny -Hippowdon, Slowbro, and Tangrowth are some of the better possibilities. Mega Altaria is also worth noting, particularly as it combines well with a Ghost team in general -once Mega Evolved, it resists the ever-problematic Dark type, and Fairy offense is of course great for threatening otherwise-tricky Dark teams.

Second place goes to Pangoro, which is a Scrappy Fighting type no matter what team goes on it while not consuming the Mega slot (And having impressive Attack, just below Mega Lopunny's but with the potential to bolster it with Life Orb or Choice Band and actually pull ahead), and third place goes to Kangaskhan, Miltank, and Stoutland, all of which have some potential on, if nothing else, Fighting teams, again as a Scrappy Fighting attacker that does not consume a Mega slot. Keep in mind whether your Mega Lopunny check is an adequate check to the likes of these, as well, or make sure other Pokemon on your team can fulfill the role.

As an ally

Somewhat surprisingly, Mega Lopunny is a fantastic ally to Ghost teams. The two types a Ghost team most consistently struggles with are of course Ghost and Dark, and Mega Lopunny is immune to the first and resistant to the second, making it surprisingly competent at switching in safely into opponents that threaten the entire rest of your team. Meanwhile it brings powerful STAB Fighting that cannot be ignored to bear against opposing Ghost/Normals and Ghost/Darks that may otherwise suck momentum from you, has a fantastic utility movepool that it honestly might as well run something from since its coverage isn't very useful in Type Reflectors (Ice Punch is actually 2 BP weaker than Return/Frustration against something like a Dragon type, thanks to the hidden 2 extra BP on every move), and if you're running Drain Punch it's shocking how often it can switch in, soak a hit, and come back to do it again later, having fully healed itself with a Drain Punch.

Only Mega Gyarados, Mega Altaria, and Mega Audino provide a similar capacity to consistently resist and threaten anti-Ghost threats, and I'd argue none of them does the job as well as Mega Lopunny. Mega Gyarados is resistant to both relevant types (Slightly worse than being immune to one and resistant to the other), but in spite of its superior bulk it actually has worse longevity, having no way to heal itself, and it doesn't actually have a STAB super effective move for Dark types, allowing individual Dark Pokemon to consistently, safely switch into it. Mega Audino is just kind of depressing in Singles in general, while Mega Altaria has no actual advantage against opposing Ghost types.

The most obvious benefits are dramatically improving your Ghost teams matchup against opposing Dark and Ghost teams -without turning to a Mega (Specifically, Mega Altaria or Mega Pinsir), literally everything on a Dark team will be, at best, neutral to Fighting, essentially requiring them to turn to Pokemon like Weezing if they want a Physical wall able to switch into Mega Lopunny. Ghost teams often fall prey to expecting Dark/Ghost and Steel/Ghost walls to be adequate for their Physical needs, to the point that Mega Lopunny can 6-0 some of the ladder's Ghost teams all by itself, and Normal/Ghost is, unsurprisingly, a common find on Ghost teams, one that Mega Lopunny also rips apart.

While Normal teams aren't a huge threat to your Ghost team anyway, Mega Lopunny is still able to 6-0 a lot of them, especially since Normal teams are especially guilty of relying on a Ghost to protect them from Fighting and leaving it at that. Theoretically STAB Extreme Speed should be a problem, but...

252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite (Normal type) Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 231-273 (85.2 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

... yes, Adamant Normal type Choice Band Dragonite only has a 6.3% chance of getting a OHKO with Extreme Speed. You'll crit more often than you'll get a high enough regular damage roll. This is the strongest possible first-turn Extreme Speed in Type Reflectors, note, as only Ubers exceed Dragonite in Attack.

However, Mega Lopunny is also a big improvement to your matchup against Steel teams, particularly the ones foolish enough to rely solely on a Ghost for their anti-Fighting needs, and in general brings a lot of utility in Fake Out and so on. In general, Fighting is an amazing attacking type, and with Scrappy the obvious Ghost/type-weak-to-Fighting combinations don't even slow you down.

If you're a Ghost team, Mega Lopunny is huge, all around. Use it, fear it.

When viability rankings come up mega Lopunny will definitely be S tier.

Speaking of viability what do you people think the ranking is for each typing?

 

[GangStark]

In that case, I'd just ditch Politoed and bring in a better Water type that doesn't set rain, like Keldeo, for the lead slot. Rain actively hinders half your team (Landorus, Sylveon and Serperior) because they can't take advantage of it, so the only effect it has on them is taking more damage from opposing Water moves. The other half of your team benefits from rain, but barely.

If you'd like to still do a rain team, consider dropping your Fire moves for similar coverage (HP Ground, for instance) and maybe add some Pokemon that benefit from it, like Beartic, Armaldo or existing Water-type Swift Swim users. You could even use stuff that abuses Thunder or Hurricane, like Mega Ampharos and Tornadus. The thing about Politoed is that it's only good for the support it provides, and it's currently not providing enough to your team to consider using for what a mediocre 'mon it is on its own terms.

Should I get rid of Helio then? I chose it for water immunity and an electric type.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

I'd love to make a viability ranking for this meta, but problem is, this meta suffers the same syndrome of Monotype in the sense that "this mon is A+ rank in Steel but B rank in ground" for example. So idk how do you solve this problem of mon having different viability in different ranks.

As for viability types, here's what I thought. All of these is from what I thought and experienced.

S rank

Idk. No types are really much better than others, so I haven't decided on S ranks yet.

A rank
The most effective typing either offensively or defensively

B rank

-> People maybe argue this to A but imo this is not as good as those in A

C rank

-> This is actually pretty decent. Considering this to be B but decided on C instead because lack of decent donor

-> I've actually used this and found out this CAN be used pretty decently, better than D ranks at least

-> I've actually seen one of the top 10 players in ladder use this, and it's pretty good, but rest of the Dragon teams I saw sucked.

-> This is actually decent stalling type when combined with the right types. Have seen this and it's not bad

D rank

That should cover all of them. Those are just my opinion though, can greatly differ from another.