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Tyranitar's Destruction: Unleash!

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by Azlanslayer, Aug 22, 2010.

  1. Azlanslayer


    Jul 9, 2010

    Infernape with another RMT here. After using my second team that was one of my most successful teams of all time, I want to make another team because I was bored of it. This team managed to get a record of 20-7 on PO. Those 7 loses was because I keep changing team members in the team. Also, I want to use my Set which is Anti-Lead Gallade. Its fun using sets people don’t even know. Without further ado, I present you the team!




    Gallade (M) @ Expert Belt

    • Steadfast
    • 252 HP | 252 Atk | 4 Def
    • Adamant Nature [+Attack, -Special Attack]
    • Moveset:
      • Zen Headbutt – Zen Headbutt is a must for Gallade. It is to hit Aerodactyl, Roserade and first and foremost Machamp, because Machamp wrecks my team really (Really) hard.
      • Shadow Sneak – Priority is a must for every Anti-Lead. Shadow Sneak is great on Gallade because it 2HKOs Starmie and Azelf. It is also for Gengar, Froslass and usually weakened Pokémon to be revenged killed
      • Close Combat – Close Combat is needed on Every Gallade, with 180 Base power coming from 383 attack stat, its a beast. I prefer this than Earthquake because of its insane power. It helps beating up Heatran,Blissey, those Steel, Rock, Dark, Normal type pokemon thinking i lack Close Combat
      • Leaf Blade - A very useful move on the team. It helps killing those Swampert that causes problems for my Tyranitar/Team to sweep. Killing those bulky waters is necessary for my team because of the huge weakness to Water

    • .....
    • Why this Pokemon?:
      Well, I needed a Pokemon that can do the same job like Machamp
      ( except the confusion hax). Every lead would want to get the early momentum .Gallade was the Pokémon I can think of because he have a diverse movepool and decent Def stats along with his Atk stat. It’s pretty standard; my Gallade set is to beat all leads out there barring Roserade, Smeargle and Metagross. Many Opponents gets beaten because of Gallade’s Surprise in OU. He surprises many opponents on what moves he brings for them. They bring out Swampert, I leaf blade. They bring out Machamp I Zen Headbutt. I have used Machamp, but it gets beaten instead by every trainer. 1 word for Gallade, Pro.
    • EVs & Nature:
      • 252 Attack allows Gallade be more offensive and to also gain power to 2HKO/OHKO Pokémon.
      • 252 HP helps to maximize Gallade's overall bulk and tanking ability
      • 4 Defence helps Gallade Abit in taking physical hits
      • Adamant nature helps Gallade to have full power to Attack!
    • Gallade vs Top 10 Leads:
      • Green isn't a problem,Orange is a bit of problem and Red is a problem.
    Comparative list of leads About Gallade Vs Other Leads (open)

    [​IMG] -Azelf: Easy Stuff, They Will Taunt, Stealth Rock Or Explosion At Turn One. Shadow Sneak 2HKOES!

    [​IMG] - Aerodactyl: Again Easy stuff, Zen Headbutt + Shadow Sneak KOES!

    [​IMG] -Swampert: Huh? Leaf Blade! KO!

    [​IMG] - Machamp: This lead is so Easy, ZEN HEADBUTT KO!

    [​IMG] - Metagross: Hard Lead, Depends, if he MM turn one, i lose, if not, i win.

    [​IMG] - Jirachi: Earthquake 2HKOs but Iron Head 2HKOs, i will switch to Rotom to Revenge Kill if Gallade is Down

    [​IMG] - Infernape: This Lead Is Funny Though, Turn on Earthquake then Turn 2 Shadow Sneak which kills them.

    [​IMG] - Ninjask: Haha Ninjask. Switch To Gliscor And Taunt Them So That They Can’t Do Anything.

    [​IMG] - Roserade: They Can’t Touch Gallade But Only Making Him Sleep. I Will Switch To Gliscor To Take The Sleep Powder And Switch Back To Gallade Which Zen Headbutt + Shadow Sneak 2HKOs. My Team Doesn’t Mind Toxic Spikes Other Then Tyranitar.

    [​IMG] - Hippowdon: Did you read Swampert? This Guy Is Abit Harder But Still Leaf Blade 2HKOES!

    [​IMG] - Tyranitar: Leaf Blade 2hkos, they usually switch to rotom which i 2HKO with Leaf Blade

    [​IMG] - Heatran: Well, He Can Barely Touch Gallade Except Explosion Which Hurts. Earthquake + SS 2HKOs Heatran.Not a Problem At All But He Will Get Stealth Rock Up.

    [​IMG] - Smeargle: Do They Even Still Using This? I Will Make Gallade As My Sleep Fodder While I Switch To Gliscor To Taunt Him.

    [​IMG] - Starmie: Shadow Sneak 2HKO! Easy, Way Too Easy

    • .....
    • Considered Changes
    Changes made, no new ones at the moment

    Tyranitar (M) @ Lum Berry

    • Sand Stream
    • 4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe
    • Jolly Nature [+Speed, -Special Attack]
    • Moveset:
      • Rock Slide – Rock Slide is Tyranitar’s STAB move of choice and is useful against opponents like Zapdos, Gyarados, Dragonite and Heatran. Basically it's better than Stone Edge because of accuracy and 10% flinch hax so it's used. Standard STAB move.
      • Crunch – Crunch is another Tyranitar’s STAB move. It’s useful against the likes of Gengar, Celebi and Cresselia which is Koed after a DD. Standard STAB move and well, it’s a must on every Tyranitar.
      • Dragon Dance - This move is a staple on Dragon Dance Tyranitar. It’s his stat boosting move. Think about it, after a Dragon Dance, this thing outspeeds base 115 speed. After Dragon Danced Twice, usually it’s GG if you don’t have Skarmory or priority user.
      • Fire Punch – Fire Punch is for Scizor, Breloom, Steel types like Magnezone, Metagross, Jirachi etc. I really love this move, like i said, its awesome, with Rock, Dark and Fire they have decent coverage to hit all pokemon in OU. Many Scizor usually U-Turn on turn one, but they get KOED instead by my uber Fire Punch. Nothing really, its just fore Grass and Steel.

    • Why this Pokemon?
      The Pokémon which this team is built around. Tyranitar is usually scarfed, which is way too predictable. So I tried to use Dragon Dance Tyranitar set. Many trainers don’t expect me to Dragon Dance. After a Dragon Dance, it reaches 364 speed that outspeeds Gengar, Starmie and Infernape – Just to name a few. Many trainers have huge Tyranitar weakness; they usually bring out rotom and Will-o-Wisp me, but Lum Berry Cures me, Dragon Dance then Crunch them for the KO. Sandstorm is also great to Negate weather effects such as Rain and also to negate focus sash.
    • EVs & Nature:
      • 252 Spe maximizes Tyranitar’s Speed To Outrun 61 Base Speed
      • 252 Atk Maximizes Tyranitar’s Offensive Power
      • 4 Hp Helps Tyranitar to take a little more hits
      • Jolly Nature is because of Tyranitar’s slow speed, so he need more speed to outrun 115 base speed after a DD

    Considered Changes
    Changes made, no new ones at the moment. <3 this beast

    Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers

    • Intimidate
    • 156 HP | 88 Atk | 96 Def | 168 Spe
    • Jolly Nature [+Speed, -Special Attack]
    • Moveset:
      • Dragon Dance – Dragon Dance is always needed on any Gyarados. It’s the only way to boost Gyarados’s stats. Being bulky, access to taunt and having a high base attack, it causes terror after getting two Dragon Dances. Watch for it!
      • Waterfall - This move is always on every Gyarados set. Gyarados’s STAB Move. Being the only physical water move and high damage, it’s needed. With Dragon Dances under his belt, Waterfall causes Terror to every Pokémon in the OU Tier that doesn’t resist it except those bulky steels like skarmory. It’s self-explanatory, really.
      • Taunt - Obviously a necessity for taunt stall teams like Swampert, Skarmory and Blissey etc. This move stops any non-damaging move like Roar to phaze me out from ending me sweep. It’s a needed move for Bulky Gyarados
      • Bounce - Return finds its way onto this set for 2 main reasons – Celebi, Starmie, Breloom and more. Three of the Pokemon are quite common in the current Metagame and both are among the fastest and bulkiest Pokes still used. I hate earthquake and Stone edge, I need something to hit everything in OU, that’s when Bounce comes in handy.Also, it gives me extra lefties recovery when SS is not in play


    • Why this Pokemon?:
      I needed some key resistances, a committed stall breaker and a Infernape counter which is not named Starmie. Gyarados fitted in this team since I changed the Pokémon from DD Dragonite to MixApe and now to BulkyDos. This Pokemon causes Terror after their Bulky Waters or Skarmory is down. I must say, BulkyDos is better than OffensiveDos because of taunt which Shut-downs Phazers/Status which makes him to set-up dragon dance easier. He provides me checks against Heatran and Infernape that causes problems for me.
    • EVs & Nature:
      • 156 HP Is so that Gyarados can take hits from attacks
      • 168 Speed allows Gyarados to outrun 16 Spe Suicune (who aims to outrun 4 Spe Rotom) and to outspeed Jolteon after a Dragon Dance.
      • 88 Atk are the rest that are dumped into Atk to boost the damage output from Return and Waterfall
      • 96 Def is to Survive Physical hits better
      • Jolly Nature is to Outspeed Standard Jolteon after a +1 DD Boost


    • Considered Changes
      Changes made, no new ones at the moment

    Rotom-H @ Choice Scarf

    • Levitate
    • 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
    • Timid Nature [+Speed, -Attack]
    • Moveset:
      • Shadow Ball - One of Rotom's 2 STAB moves, this move is used on Pokes that Thunderbolt isn't effective against or Pokes weak to Ghost. He needs it to Hit Gengar, Azelf, Celebi and Swampert – Just to name a few – also having 10% Lowering their SpD is a niche
      • Thunderbolt - Rotom's stronger STAB move packs a real punch, allowing it to deal with things like Starmie, Infernape, Suicune, Gyarados, Vaporeon and more. This move also allows Rotom to revenge kill +1 DD Gyarados, who can be a pain otherwise. Standard STAB Move.
      • Hidden Power Ice– Rotom's move. You may ask why Hp Ice instead of Hydro Pump. Hp Ice is needed since i want to revenge kill Dragonite,Gliscor and Flygon with a much more better accuracy, as well as type effectiveness.
      • Trick– Staple move on any Scarf/Specs Rotom. Trick cripples Blissey switch ins as well as any Wall that is going to wall me. It cripples stall, who loves inflicting status. Standard move on any Scarf/Specs Rotom really.

    • Why this Pokemon?:
      Magnezone used to be in this slot but the Ground + Fighting weakness was too much to bear, so I used Rotom instead, Gengar was too frail. Rotom-H gives check to Lucario, Gyarados, Infernape (Maybe) and bulky waters. He also acts as my pursuit bait so Tyranitar can set-up. Scaring off Scizor is awesome because he is my #1 Counter for Tyranitar, Magnezone keeps getting killed brick break and superpower which is why Rotom > Magnezone. Rotom revenges DD Dragonite, as well as Scarf Rotom.
    • EVs & Nature:
      • 252 Spe to have maximum speed.
      • 4 HP filler
      • 252 SpA to have the maximum power to break kill pokemon
      • Timid Nature is to maximize speed without losing any offensive power
    Considered Changes
    Changes made, no new ones at the moment
    Heatran (M) @ Passho Berry

    • Flash Fire
    • 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
    • Naive Nature [+Speed, -Special Defence]
    • Moveset:
      • Flamethrower – Heatran’s Stab move that hurts ALOT with his 359 SpA stat. I chose Flamethrower > Fire blast because of accuracy, I hate when it misses one time during my battle against Shaymin, it misses and Heatran dies instead. The lack of power doesn’t hurt.
      • Stealth Rock - As many Raters suggested to Use Stealth Rock because i was Lacking it so tyranitar can do his job to Sweep Well, Hp Grass doesn't have any uses anyways, a Simple Staple move for any team ^^
      • Explosion - This move is great to fit in somewhere on any team. You will just “BOOM” to anything that resists Earth power, Fire blast and Hidden power [Grass]. Usually when i lost my checks or when I think I should go Boom, I go for it.
      • Earth Power – Earth power gives check to Infernape, Opponent’s Heatran, Electric types and more. Any Heatran have this move. Just coverage.

    • Why this Pokemon?:
      I wanted a Pokémon that kills Skarmory, Infernape. Heatran fits here because of his weaknesses is Covered by his teammates. Heatran usually comes in on a fire move like those opposing Heatran using Fire blast on Rotom so I can get Flash-Fire boost and start tearing down the Opponent’s team with STAB Flamethrowers. Passho Berry helps Heatran to At LEAST survive a water attack when he is above 50% health, if not, he dies, if he survives the Water move, i will "Explode IN THE FACE!". Cool heatran ^^
    • EVs & Nature:
      • 252 SpA gives Heatran more power with his STAB Flamethrower hurting many Pokémon that doesn’t resist it
      • 252 Spe allows Heatran to be at Maximum speed.
      • 4 Hp is just filler.
      • Naive Nature is to maximize his speed and without losing the power of Explosion


    • Considered Changes
      Changes made, no new ones at the moment
    Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers

    • Sand veil
    • 252 HP | 4 Def | 252 Spe
    • Jolly Nature [+Speed, -Special Attack]
    • Moveset:
      • Earthquake – Gliscor‘s STAB Move. Earthquake is to hit Tyranitar, Infernape (If they lack Hp ice), Heatran and those Weakened by Toxic. With his decent attack stat + Toxic, The Pokémon will be weakened easily
      • Toxic – Toxic is needed to work with taunt, toxic makes their sweeping capabilities lowered so they won’t sweep that much. Toxic weakens Stall teams and Pokémon like blissey.
      • Taunt – This move works wonders with Toxic, preventing them from recovering while taking damage from Toxic + Earthquake shortens their Hp.
      • Roost – To recover damage taken from walling any moves. Standard recovery move, do I need further to explain?

    • Why this Pokemon?:
      I have a stall weakness that I hate it. Many stall team used against me beats this team when Gyarados goes down -.-. So, I used Gliscor > Zapdos because of his key resistances to Bug, Ground and Fighting that helps my team. He has a great synergy with Tyranitar, Gyarados and Heatran. Being weak to Water and Ice makes his Stall breaking capabilities lowered, so I have Heatran and Gyarados for that. His ability, Sand veil and paired with Tyranitar, helps him to avoid some moves like hydro pump. Great Member for the team.
    • EVs & Nature:
      • 252 Spe allows him to Outspeed Lucario, Gliscor (Before he taunts me) and KOing them back
      • 252 HP allows Gliscor to be a tank as well as to Break Stall
      • 4 Def is the remaining EVs as to allow Gliscor to take things like Bullet Punch and Mach punch better.
      • Jolly Nature to maximize speed without losing any offensive power

    • Considered Changes
      Changes made, no new ones at the moment

    Thanks to Cal-Ciaran for the Format ^^
  2. Azlanslayer


    Jul 9, 2010
    Threat List
    (Updating..Havent even Start on it Yet)

    [​IMG] Breloom :

    • Scarfed Lead: Easiest Breloom to handle, I usually just let Gliscor sleep and take it from there

    • SubPunch Lead: For some reason these started getting popular, and everytime I faced one I was in trouble. Let Gallade or Heatran take sleep since I cant risk Heatran in on a Focus Punch, then go to Rotom on the Focus Punch, Shadow Ball to break sub, so Shadow Ball 2HKOs Breloom. Other times, Gliscor survives the Focus Punch and scares it away.

    • Substitute: Same as lead, except I let Heatran take the sleep, not Gallade. Troublesome as well.
    [​IMG] Dragonite :

    • Dragon Dance: Oh god annoying as hell, good thing they have Outrage. I usually sacrifice Heatran or Rotom and go to Dragonite to revenge.

    • Heal Bell + Dragon Dance: This one is easier, since they dont use Earthquake. Rotom burns and Gliscor Taunts. Free Stealth rock for Heatran as well.

    • Leads: This thing's a bitch, switch to Heatran on Draco Meteor/Fire Blast, then switch to Rotom on the Earthquake/Superpower while WoW them.

    • Choice Band: Less annoying than all out DD, since Rotom/Gyarados can revenge easier, Rotom also can come in on ES or EQ, and Heatran hurts Dragon Locked ones badly.
    [​IMG] Empoleon :

    • Lead: Never seen one

    • SubPetaya: Bitch stuff, once it sets-up, its Good Game, i usually had to sacrifice Heatran and Gallade..

    • Tank: Never seen one
    [​IMG] Flygon :

    • Choice: Outrage, Stone Edge, Thunderpunch and EQ are laughter to Rotom-H, Rotom-H says hi and WoW Flygon
    [​IMG] Gengar :

    • Sub Split: Vaporeon is never 2HKOd by anything Gengar throws at it except Thunderbolt, which is never used on Sub Gar. Pain Split is annoying though. If it has Focus Blast, Forry can fuck it over with Payback, and if it has HP Fire, Heatran is perfect counter.

    • Life Orb: Now these ones are annoying, since they can OHKO Heatran, Forry (if HP Fire), and Rotom. Vaporeon isnt 2HKOd, and Jirachi can take a hit if needed, Flygon revenge kills. Annoying though.
    [​IMG] Gyarados :

    • LO Dragon Dance: Vaporeon Roars it, Flygon revenges it, Forry can take hits if needed.

    • Taunt Dragon Dance: This thing is annoying, if it taunts Vaporeon then ill have to bring in Flygon instantly and spam Outrage, which is something I do not enjoy. Rotom can survive a +1 Waterfall though.

    • RestTalker: Yo my name is Forry and I set up on your bitchass.
    [​IMG] Heatran :

    • Choice Scarf: Vaporeon is as good as it gets for a Counter.

    • Choice Specs: Vaporeon on everything except HP Grass, and if it HP Grasses then its free set up for Forry.

    • Life Orb: Vaporeon can beat it one on one, Flygon can kill it if needed, Rotom 2HKOs with Tbolt and OHKOs with Hydro Pump.

    • Torment: Vaporeon.
    [​IMG] Infernape :

    • Mixape: Vaporeon, but its very annoying. Flygon can revenge.

    • Choiced: Banded ones are easy to play around although they hit hard, Scarf ones are tricky but Vaporeon owns them.

    • Lead: Read Forretress.

    • Nasty Plot/Swords Dance: THE problem. This thing can get in on Forretress, set up one of those moves, and it means it WILL kill a Pokemon. These Infernape are the reason I play so cautiously with Flygon, so I can take a +2 Vacuum Wave/Mach Punch, if Flygon is under 50%, the Infernape is at +2 and it has Priority, its over. Thankfully, this has only costed me 1 game, as I manage to play Flygon carefully until I know the opponent's team.
    [​IMG] Jirachi :

    • Scarf: Forry takes everything except Fire Punch and sets up on it, Heatran is the perfect Counter.

    • Body Slam: Heatran is the perfect Counter.

    • Calm Mind: Heatran is the perfect Counter.
    [​IMG] Kingdra :

    • Lum/Chesto Dragon Dance: Vaporeon comes in, Wishes as they Sub or Outrage, and I work from there. If it subbed I roar, if it Outraged I protect, and if it DDd I roar. Chesto ones are whores if its last mon and it gets a flinch on Jirachi.

    • Rain Dance:Vaporeon isnt 2HKOd by Meteor, so its almost a perfect counter.
    [​IMG] Lucario :

    • Swords Dance: Rotom comes in on SD / CC and OHKOs with Thunderbolt. Flygon isnt OHKOd by +2 Extremespeed iirc, Jirachi Fire Punches it.

    • Agility: Vaporeon can beat it with Wish + Protect + Surf when it gets enough def drops. Jirachi isnt OHKOd by CC.
    [​IMG] Machamp:

    • Sub + 3 attacks: If it gets a sub, something is going down unless Vaporeon manages to Roar it away after the first DynamicPunch, or Jirachi passes confusion to flinch it twice. Unlikely though, its pretty damn bad.

    • Lead: Read Forretress, god damn annoying because of Confusion.
    [​IMG] Scizor :

    • Choice Band: Forry gets layers, Rotom OHKOs after 2 SRs or SR + Spikes, Vaporeon walls it, Jirachi OHKOs, Flygon can OHKO, Heatran OHKOs. Walled by all my team lol.

    • Swords Dance: Jirachi OHKOs, if its slow Heatran wins, Rotom can take a +2 BP if needed.
    [​IMG] Starmie :

    • Defensive: I remember losing to Jun because he used a Leftovers Rapid Spin, Hydro Pump, Thunderbolt, Recover Starmie, which caused some deep shit, but it was also because he ahd stuff on his team to help it. Alone it cant hurt much, but with proper support it can be annoying. It also needs that exact set or it doesnt do crap.

    • Life Orb: Oh god annoying. Usually it goes like this: It takes layer damage going to lets say 75%. I bring in Rotom on a Hydro Pump / Rapid Spin / Thunderbolt. If it Hydro Pumps, I let Rotom die, go to Flygon, and U-Turn to kill, effectively blocking spin. If I dont need layers Vaporeon can outstall it.
    [​IMG] Togekiss :

    • ParaFlinch: Jirachi subs on it and sub isnt broken by Aura Sphere. Heatran owns it. So does Specs Rotom.

    • Nasty Plot: Rotom comes in and OHKOs, Heatran can Roar it on the NP, Jirachi can Toxic it and start to Iron Head Flinch. Flygon revenge if needed.
    [​IMG] Tyranitar :

    • Choice Band: Jirachi and Flygon can take a Stone Edge and threaten to OHKO, while Heatran and Forry beat Crunch, etc.

    • Choice Scarf: It may be able to revenge Rotom, but it will be 2HKOd after SR, so its a 50/50 chance. Flygon and Jirachi become more reliable, as do Heatran and Vaporeon.

    • Dragon Dance: If it gets 1 im in trouble, but Vaporeon can Roar it to take layer damage. If it gets 2, something IS going to die, but Flygon can still revenge. If it gets 3 though and doesnt miss Stone Edge on Vaporeon, its gg. Usually it cant get so much, though. Annoying if you dont handle it correctly.

    • TyraniBoah:Vaporeon owns it, Jirachi owns it, Flygon owns it.
    [​IMG] Weavile :

    • Sweeper: It can revenge Rotom with Pursuit, same applies for Flygon and Ice Shard, but Jirachi and Vaporeon beat it, plus Rotom can set up on SD less ones.

    [​IMG] Blissey:

    • Wall: If it doesnt run Flamethrower Forretress will set up on it and restore health with Wish later. Rotom can trick it, Rachi is made to own this thing, and Heatran can outstall every variant.
    [​IMG] Bronzong :

    • Wall: Forry free layers, Rotom 2HKOs and isnt hurt by anything, Heatran owns EQ less ones and same for Jirachi.
    [​IMG] Celebi :

    • Wall: If it has HP Fire Forry cant set up but its buttfucked by Heatran. Flygon U-Turn hurts, and after some layers Rotom can OHKO.

    • Life Orb Tinkerbell: Earth Power less is beaten by Heatran, Flygon can nearly OHKO with U-Turn now, Rotom OHKOs for sure.
    [​IMG] Cresselia :

    • Wall: Forry sets up on it all day long, Jirachi wins with Substitute + Toxic, Rotom 2HKOs and can Trick, and is outstalled badly by Heatran.
    [​IMG] Forretress :

    • Standard: Rotom can OHKO it after SR + Spikes, effectively removing any Spin chance. Flygon OHKOs with Fire Blast, Heatran OHKOs, Jirachi 2HKOs. Only thing that is annoying is spin.
    [​IMG] Gliscor:

    • Stall-breaker: Forry wont set up on it sadly, but Rotom can OHKO, Vaporeon can OHKO after SR, Jirachi can toxic it. Its annoying to deal with if well played, though.

    • Baton Pass: If it gets something up on Forry, I go to Vaporeon, Surf it on his stat move, and Roar it as it brings something in, effectively stopping the pass.
    [​IMG] Hippowdon :

    • Wall: Free layers for Forry, Vaporeon 2HKOs, Jirachi can Toxic it, Rotom OHKOs and can Trick it.
    [​IMG] Skarmory :

    • Standard: Without Taunt I get easy layers and spin his, if it taunts I usually just stay spinning for a while and then go to Rotom to threaten with an OHKO. Flygon can 2HKO with Fire Blast after SR. Heatran threatens it badly.
    [​IMG] Snorlax :

    • Curse: Trick from Rotom can obliterate it, Flygon can hurt it with strong physical moves, EQ less Snorlax gets Roared, and most of the time they are Toxiced + Iron Headed to death. I can set up Layers on it as well.
    [​IMG] Suicune:

    • CroCune: Vaporeon owns it, Rotom can 2HKO it even at +2 or Trick it. If needed Heatran will Roar a +1 one. Flygon can do some damage and Jirachi will Toxic + Iron Head it.

    • LO/Leftovers CM: Vaporeon is great at Roaring it, Flygon will 2HKO these with SR + Spikes with EQ, Rotom can OHKO them.
    [​IMG] Swampert :

    • Standard: Forry sets up, Rotom 2HKOs or Trick, Vaporeon owns it, Jirachi can Toxic. Even with no grass moves its easy to handle.

    • CursePert: Heh CursePert, Vaporeon Roars it, monoattacking ones are rocked even harder. Rotom can Trick.
    [​IMG] Tentacruel :

    • Wall: Rotom 1/2HKOs and blocks spin. Flygon OHKOs.
    [​IMG] Vaporeon :

    • Wall: Forry can get some layers, then I go to Vaporeon and Wish, followed by going to either Forry or Rachi. Rachi will Toxic it, Rotom will OHKO it.
    [​IMG] Zapdos:

    • Generic Wall: Heatran owns this very badly, and Jirachi can Toxic it. Rotom can Trick as well.

    • SubToxic: Heatran beats it, and Jirachi can Toxic it. It is quite annoying if played well though.

    • Life Orb: Annoying as well, Heatran wont be 2HKOd and Flygon can switch in with ease, but its kinda hard to beat. Rotom can also hurt it badly with Tbolt.
  3. greenstreet


    May 26, 2010
    Hey good team you have here but just a few nitpicks:

    ~you might want to run stealth rock somewhere, maybe on heatran or gliscor since it nets tyranitar some crucial KO's and stuff.
    ~scizor can easily revenge kill your tyranitar so maybe luring him out then Magnezone?

    Sorry for the poor rate but those were just the things that came to my mind.
  4. 360Swampert


    May 31, 2010
    Well small rate is all i can give your really Buddy but i would suggest this

    Rotom-A give him Substitute over reflect gives him more longevity and allows him to survive super effective moves on switch ins.
    Gyarados - I disagree with return i would run Eq or Bounce simply because your have rotom-A to deal with bulky waters

    I see too things that would really hurt your team. Scizor can Ko TTar rotom and heatran and gallade to an extent with superpower bullet punch and pursuit though its unlikely they run all 3 on one set, they your Gyarados and gliscor can wall him to can extent bar that you have a slight suicune problem once rotom and and gallade die.

    Because of this running Infernape over heatran and Rotom C over rotom A might help because gliscor already deals with Fire moves. and rotom C can have all the same moves just leaf storm over reflect if needed and couple that with your gyarados your have a fair few suicune counters.
  5. Azlanslayer


    Jul 9, 2010
    Yeah. i have been finding a spot for SR, maybe Heatran can do it...about scizor, i use rotom to reflect and kill it with heatran ^^

    Thanks for rating

    Nah, I LOVE Return, its a Epic move on Gyarados once rotom dies, so i have a back-up...Scizor won't be killing everything because rotom have reflect for it.

    about infernape, which set and what for? I will try Rotom-C

    Thanks for rating Buddy ^^
  6. UnhandledException


    Mar 8, 2010

    First of all, I suggest you give your Gallade an Expert Belt instead of Life Orb. It still nets you KOs against Machamp and Swampert and 2HKO on Azelf while not having to lose 10% health every turn.

    Second, if you want your TTar to do some sweeping, you NEED Stealth Rock somewhere.
    Also, Gengar rips through your team once Gallade is gone, so I suggest you replace Heatran with something like:

    Ability: Levitate
    Sassy nature
    EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD
    -Stealth Rock
    -Gyro Ball

    It counters Gengar pretty well while setting down rocks. Swampert and Skarmory is set-up fodder for Gyarados, Infernape can also be handled by both Gyara and Bronzong(should you decide to run EQ). Also walls Scizor which can swiftly KO TTar.

    Thats all atm, gl

    P.S. Loving the pictures!
  7. 360Swampert


    May 31, 2010
    well firstly lets deal with rotom-C set

    252hp/252spa/3spd or your current set

    -left storm

    Personally i would run the + Spa set so u can Ko suicune with Leaf storm or thunderbolt

    Ok Infernape i would use over heatran as it packs more of a punch with its specially mixnape set still dealing with the problems heatran does but also it has the ability to ko suicune with a Grass knot The specially mixed set would be your best bet as gliscor allready deals with the fire moves heatran absorbs.
  8. Azlanslayer


    Jul 9, 2010
    I know about that Gengar Weakness of Mine, but how can Bronzong Wall Infernape ? O.o

    Woah, I haven't Thought about Expert Belt, imma give it a try, thanks alot

    Thanks for Liking the RMT Friend! ;D

    Seems Good, i will try that out, hopefully it destroys Suicune ;D

    Thanks for Rating!
  9. Shizzle


    Mar 11, 2009
    I still think EQ would be better on Tyranitar to deal with Jirachi, and Heatran. After a +1 Boost EQ OHKOs standard Shuca Heatran. Gliscor would still be a problem, but you always have Gyarados anyway.

    On Gyarados, I strongly recommend Bounce. It gives him a powerful STAB move which allows him to deal with Starmie, Suicune [to some degree], Celebi and others really well, however you do then get owned by Vaporeon. However the 30% parahax can come in handy against some pokes, and the extra turn of leftovers recovery is nice.

    Really just suggestions, looks like a solid team already.
  10. IronBullet

    IronBullet Astronomy Domine
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Leader

    Oct 14, 2009
    Hey, got your PM so I'll give you a rate.

    First of all, solid team and great presentation. Life Orb isn't really needed on Gallade, try Expert Belt as you hit most common leads super-effectively, and the absence of recoil allows Gallade to take random hits such as Aero's Rock Slide or Azelf's Fire Blast better. You can also go with a Lum Berry to destroy Roserade through Zen Headbutt + Shadow Sneak, and to get the jump on Smeargle. Close Combat is a necessary STAB move, I really think you should try it over Earthquake.

    I'd recommend trying out Bounce over Return, as it hits Bulky Waters harder, and gains super-effective coverage on the likes of Shaymin, Celebi and Machamp. Return is decent for better neutral coverage, but Bounce is beneficial in that it also provides an extra turn of Lefties recovery. Rock Slide on Tyranitar is a little too weak for my liking, one instance where you miss the power is on Bulky Gyara after Intimidate. It also misses out on the 2HKO on Skarm after a DD, and Stone Edge's high crit rate can also be a life saver. It comes down to personal preference, though.

    You lack Stealth Rock, which is pretty much a necessity on every team, and can help your sweepers nail some KOs. So, I'd recommend changing your Heatran to a Passho Berry set, which survives Surfs from nearly every Water type out there, and Explodes. This easily opens up sweeps for Gyarados and Tyranitar, and is great for removing troublesome Pokemon like Life Orb Starmie, who seems like it could give your team a beating. A set of Fire Blast/Explosion/Earth Power/Stealth Rock should work well.

    Since you now lack a revenge-killer, I'd suggest trying out a Scarf Rotom-w over your current set. This guy is great for revenge-killing DD Gyara and SD Lucario, and also does a truckload to DD Kingdra with Thunderbolt, which makes it easy pickings for your other Pokemon. It also makes a great check to all types of Infernape, who 1-2HKO the majority of your team barring Gyarados, who gets worn down easily due to Stealth Rock. Rotom-w is preferred for its ability to hit Tyranitar switch-ins for hard damage with Hydro Pump. The moveset is Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball/Hydro Pump/Trick.

    If you decide not to use a Scarf Rotom, Will-O-Wisp is definitely worth trying out on it, as it permanently cripples shit like Tyranitar or Flygon looking for a switch-in, while Reflect's effects are only temporary. If you're really paranoid about giving Heatran a free switch-in though, then Reflect is still a solid choice.

    Nice team, and gl!
  11. george182


    Jun 27, 2009
    Firstly, as you don't have a rapid spinner I suggest changing a few things on gyrados. Assuming the oponent has stealth rocks up, then gyrados is not going to be switchin in much. So I suggest more ev's into attack. The 96 defence ev's are there to stop quick attack CB scizor 2hkoing you, I havn't seen quick attack on scizor since platinum, and it's still not going to OHKO you anyway.

    Next I think you have too much wasted speed really, you only need to aim for over 394 speed after a dragon dance. 168 ev's will put you at 264 speed, which after a dragon dance makes 396 speed, just beating jolteon and aerodactyl. Then I would put the extra ev's you have saved into attack, giving you a spread of:

    156 hp/184 attack/168 speed

    The extra attack will help Ko weakened vaporeons/suicune ect.

    I wouldn't use bounce personally. For example, if you are in against a starmie, and I know you have bounce, I can easilly predict the bounce and go to my magnezone. Then as you come down, you hit magnezone for a 4 times resisted attack, while magnezone hit's you for a 4 times supereffective attack. But any pokemon with a restance to flying can switch in, as you bounce up and then ur forced to stay in, forced to use a resisted attack and then forced to die.

    Also I can see you like accuracy over power. But on tyranitar, I would recomend stone edge as it's your best bet at 2hkoing bulky waters e.g. vaporeon, suicune, seeing as they wall both your sweepers without it.

    Lasty I recomend you get stealth rocks somewhere, it's the best move in the game and you should really use it. The best place would be on heatran over hp grass. Hp grass isn't 2hkoing bulky waters like vaporeon, and you can always explode on them anyway.
  12. Faladran

    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Dec 31, 2009
    As shown in the synergy chart, this team has a huge weakness to Water-type moves. In particular, Life Orb Starmie can easily 2HKO every member, allowing it to make a clean sweep after a bit of residual damage. Infernape is also a major threat; although you list Gyarados as an Infernape counter, it simply does not serve that purpose well. A large number of Infernapes run either Stone Edge or Thunderpunch, meaning even Gyarados is going to be taking huge damage.

    To help you take Water attacks and retain the ability to stop Gyarados, try out a Celebi in place of Rotom:

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP/224 SAtk/32 Spd
    Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Grass Knot
    - Thunder Wave
    - Recover
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    I prefer this set because of the extra power and ability to OHKO Scizor after Stealth Rock with Hidden Power, but the standard Defensive set is also an option.

    Speaking of Stealth Rock, you don't have a user of it on this team! You absolutely have to have a team member to set up Stealth Rock on any competitive team, as the entry damage is invaluable.

    I would recommend switching out the Anti-Lead Gallade. I know that you're satisfied with its performance, but it can't set up Stealth Rock and a Choice Scarfed Pokemon like Heatran isn't a good option to carry it either. Try out a TrickScarf Uxie in its place:

    Uxie @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/104 Def/152 Spd
    Impish nature (+Def, -SpA)
    - Trick
    - Thunder Wave
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-Turn

    Uxie matches up better against more leads than Gallade. It's somewhat of an anti-lead and a Stealth Rocker all in one. Against both faster leads with Taunt, and slower, bulkier leads, Trick will most likely end up crippling your opponent. Thunder Wave can then be used on the switch to paralyze anything that comes in, while U-Turn gives you a more fluid way to switch.

    Good luck with your team!
  13. Arikado

    Arikado العدالة تمطر من فوق
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jul 17, 2010
    Stone Edge > Rock Slide, Rock Slide still has 10% chance to miss, and the difference in power is very helpful, plus it might give you some crit hax which is awesome.

    And i'd say Fire Punch > Aqua Tail, but then you'll lose coverage against some Pokemon, but will give you advantage over Scizor, Forretress, and Breloom.
  14. Friar


    Aug 20, 2008

    I think most of what could be changed has been said, but I'll just say a few things-

    First is for your Gallade - I think a Lum Berry would be more beneficial. I dont know if losing Life Orb makes you lose any KO's, but I think Lum Berry would be better so that you can beat Roserade more easily. I also dont get the point of Earthquake because it has similar coverage with Fighting which Gallade gets STAB on...so switch Earthquake to Close Combat. All the leads you supposedly Earthquake beat you anyway...like Jirachi and Metagross. The exception is Heatran who gets raped by CC anyway. Close Combat gives you another (better) STAB move to use outside of the lead position should you still be alive.

    On Tyranitar I dont think Lum Berry is the right way to go...very few trainers will status Tyranitar barring a burn...which will almost always come from Rotom as you said. Between Gliscor and Heatran non choice Rotoms (aka the ones that might go for a burn) are very well handled. Scarfed versions are set up fodder for TTar and also well covered by Gliscor and Heatran depending on the move used. I would either suggest a set of DD / Stone Edge / Crunch / Aqua Tail @ Life Orb for a better stall breaker / powerhouse that is easier to revenge...or DD / Stone Edge / Crunch / Fire Punch @ Babiri Berry for a more reliable sweeper that is a little worse against stall but harder to revenge kill. I prefer Babiri but you can probably deal with Scizor well enough to go for the Life Orb set, your choice.

    I like the idea of SR over HP Grass on Heatran. As previously stated your HP Grass wont be doing memorable damage to anything except Swampert who can be tanked / burned by Rotom or KO'd by Gallade. Forcing a switch with Heatran is a great place to go for the SR and is the only way i see SR working into your team. This of course means WoW > Reflect on Rotom...you have Heatran covered really well.

    I am a huge fan of Taunt Toxic Gliscor and love seeing him on your team, but I'd like to talk about EVs here. Your spread of 252 HP / 40 def / 212 Speed only uses 504 EVs and ties with Jolly Lucario which is no good...at least go for 216 speed evs. That being said, 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Speed is a superior spread because those 40 Defense evs dont do much and being able to beat most opposing Gliscors is HUGE, especially for your team because they could be problematic for both Gallade and Tyranitar.

    Thats all I have...good luck going forward!
  15. Azlanslayer


    Jul 9, 2010
    Bah, i have seen many sword dancing scizor and CB Scizor around with quick attack which i absolutely hate, but i will remove the Evs from speed to attack =)

    Yeah, i hate using bounce too, its so predictable or at least can be revenge killed because the pokemon is slower -.-. Return is a superior choice ;D

    Many raters have suggested Stone Edge, i will try that out soon enough. As for the Stealth Rocks, Good Idea, Hp grass doesn't have uses anyways while i can just go "Boom".

    Thanks For Rating!

    Nah, Rotom is great down there, he gives check to many pokemon and also taking their hp with his unique move Pain Spilt. So Yeah No way Celebi's going to this team.

    On Uxie, Gallade > Uxie, Gallade can do more during mid game while uxie just SPAM U-turns and Thunder-waves and than being my death fodder.

    Thanks for the rating though!

    Yeah, Considering Stone Edge for tyranitar. I Have rotom-h for Scizor, Forrestress and to the extend Breloom if toxic orb aint up yet, i prefer Earthquake > Aqua tail for Metagross,Jirachi and heatran, but Metagross usually carries Bullet Punch and Jirachi held item is Choice scarf, which defeats the purpose of using Earthquake.

    Thanks For Rating!

    Nah, I Prefer Expert Belt because Shadow Sneak 2HKOs Azelf and Starmie with EB and LO which Lum berry doesnt achieve. As for Close Combat, i have thought about it but well, i hate the Def Drops which lowers Gallade to live even longer. He can survive Shadow Balls if he is at 200 hp =).

    Interesting about Babiri Berry, With that, i don't need to always Depend on Rotom-H to do his Job =). Lum berry helps me on those Nasty T-waves, Toxic and Burns to protect me from getting Status :D.

    Yeah. Hp grass doesn't have any uses while i can just go "Boom". After some testing, i prefer SR > Hp Grass :D. 252 Hp/ 4 Def/ 252 Spe, Not bad eh? i will try that out and see any results =)

    Thanks For Rating!
  16. Aqueos


    Jan 27, 2010
    You can delete your own posts. Anyway why not run psycho cut over zen headbutt on gallade? It has better accuracy and a nice crit rate as a bonus. Of course if zen headbutt nets some kos that psycho cut doesn't you should keep it.
  17. Pancham


    Jan 13, 2010
    I find Fire Punch on Tyranitar to be a bit better. It hits Scizor switchins, Jirachi, Skarmory, Forretress, Breloom (Which resists all 3 of its moves) and plenty more, proving to eb the better choice over Aqua Tail.

    Furthermore, Stone Edge is much better than Rock Slide. Using Rock Slide will cause you to miss plenty OHKOs, and the flinch rate is terrible anyways, so you wont be flinching much. Rock Slide is also inaccurate, having 95% of accuracy, so it's not much better in that department either.

    On Gallade, I'm going to have to agree, Psycho Cut is much better.

    On Rotom, try using Will-o-wisp over Reflect Will-o-wisp is the same thing, but causes HP decrease and lasts linger, as it is infinite until heal Bell/Aromatherapy is used.

    As for Heatran and Gliscor, try putting SR on Gliscor and HPGrass in SR's place on Heatran, it will prove to be a far better option.

    Bounce on Gyarados could also help, but it really only helps with Celebi.

    That's it for my rate, hope I helped.
  18. Bribery


    Mar 28, 2009
    You have a huge weakness to Water types which are on practically every team these days. I suggest replacing Rotom with a Leech Seed Shaymin. This gives you a check to most Water types while keeping the HP draining property of Pain Split which you seem to love. Shaymin can also check a lot of the things you use Rotom to check. Shaymin also helps you take out Swampert if Gallade doesn't manage to do so.

    Shaymin @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 76 SAtk / 180 Spd
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Seed Flare
    - Protect
    - Leech Seed
    - Hidden Power Fire

    180 speed is enough to outrun Jolly Lucario.

    Although this isn't necessary, I think you should try LO Aerodactyl over Gliscor. It has great synergy with Tyranitar and is an awesome late game cleaner, especially since Tyranitar can weaken most of Aerodactyl's counters. Gliscor and Aerodactyl have similar typing but Aerodactyl gains the SDef boost from Sandstorm.

    Aerodactyl @ Life Orb
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Roost
    - Taunt
  19. Azlanslayer


    Jul 9, 2010
    No, Zen Headbutt > Psycho Cut. I have even try Psycho Cut, it doesn't KO Machamp..Check this Calcs

    252 Atk Gallade Vs Machamp:

    Psycho Cut vs Machamp: 92.4% - 109.4%
    Zen Headbutt vs Machamp: 106.3% - 125.2% (100% To KO)

    See that, Zen Headbutt > Psycho Cut. Superior Choice.

    Thanks For Rating.

    Nah, Fire Punch only works against Scizor, Breloom Etc, i prefer using EQ or Aqua tail or you will be walled by Heatran :O...Anyways, Like i said, Zen Headbutt > Psycho cut as the calcs above ^^.

    Fuck FOR SAKE, Everyone WAS RATING ME TO REMOVE HP GRASS FOR STEALTH ROCK BECAUSE I CAN GO "BOOM" So STOP ASKING ME TO REPLACE THAT. Gliscor is a stall-breaker, so he needs all of the moves ;D..

    Bounce on Gyarados is Explained, its WAAAAY To predictable when he can get revenge killed by Slower Pokemon when bounce gets its 2nd Turn, so no.

    WoW is good, i have been testing, yeah, i might go for it..

    Thanks For RATING!

    Bro, i play Pokemon Online too, under the nick Azlanslayer, if i see you trying out more of my team without my permission, imma tell Coyotte508 ;D

    Thanks for Testing ^^

    I Will try out Shaymin, but does it counter Gyarados? As for aerodactyl, No, it doesnt break stall like Gliscor does, plus gliscor have the Ability Sand Veil and a Electric resist, pretty good. i will try shayming though.

    Thanks For Rating!!

    Sorry for being Nasty, i'm just bored or in a bad mood :X..

    Guys, more rates pls, i know this TEAM is far from perfect.

    After some Testing, I FOUND OUT that I HAVE A MASSIVE OFFENSIVE SUICUNE, Empoleon and Vaporeon Weakness, Any Help Guys?

    and also, don't think of me using Stone edge, Check this Log Out.

    Start of turn 7
    Tyranitar used Stone Edge!
    The attack of Tyranitar missed!

    The foe's Suicune used Hydro Pump!
    It's super effective!
    Tyranitar lost 276 HP! (80% of its health)

    The sandstorm rages!
    The foe's Suicune is buffeted by the sandstorm!
    Azlanslayer-Testing: oh Wow

    Start of turn 8
    Tyranitar used Stone Edge!
    The attack of Tyranitar missed!

    The foe's Suicune used Ice Beam!
    Tyranitar lost 23 HP! (6% of its health)
    Tyranitar fainted!

    That was Bullshit, i hate STONE Edge Missing so No STONE EDGE, and thanks for rating Legend killer and phillip, You guys ROCK!
  20. Psychotic..


    Oct 18, 2009
    Why don't you just use Azelf lead and then you can give Heatran HP grass to help with water types? I don't see how a scarf Tran with SR is going to help you much. It solves your SR issue and helps with your water type issue.

    As others have mentioned try using Bounce/Stone Edge/EQ over Return Gyarados. Return has minimal coverage and should only be used if you have Priorty/Stab/bad move pool. I dont see the need for it.

    Tyranitar wants Fire punch or EQ over Aqua tail. I think EQ is the best option so you can deal with Heatran and other Steel types who would otherwise wall you. Also try using Life orb > Lum Berry so you can get some more power on your attacks. Lastly on Tyranitar Stone edge> Rock slide. The accuracy is hurtful but the power that is made up for it won't disappoint.

    Finally Try running WoW or Substitute over reflect on Rotom. I have actually found some nice results using this Rotom set

    -Shadow Ball
  21. DerickNotName


    Jul 10, 2010
    Pretty Solid Team Dude, Yes Tyranitar Is A Damn Beast(DD Is Good But BOAH IS THE BEST!)
    Moving On, I Don't Like The Rotom. I Honestly Would Change It. How About Double Status, It Is Actually Awesome I Use It In Nearly Every Team, It Just Cripples Everything. Here Is The Set:

    Any Form @Leftovers
    Bold Nature
    252 hp 252 def
    Shadow Ball
    HP Fighting
    Thunder Wave


    Rotom-F @Leftovers
    252 hp/ 252 def
    Bold Nature
    Discharge/Thunder Bolt

    Depends If You Wanna Defeat Stallers Or Not.
    If You take The Double Status Rotom I'd Take Toxic Off Gliscor, Add In rocks Then Put HP grass on tran, Then You Have Solved Ur Problem.
    The Gallade Lead xD Is Pro. Pro Like Shuckle Pro
    Nice Team :)
  22. kokoloko

    kokoloko what matters is our plan!
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion

    Aug 21, 2009
    Hey, I got your VM so here I am.

    First off, you have a massive Offensive Suicune weakness. To fix this I suggest changing your current Rotom to:

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Levitate / Timid
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe or 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hydro Pump / Pain Split
    - Will-O-Wisp / Reflect

    With this set, you retain most benefits you have with your current Rotom, but you also gain an Offensive Suicune and Adamant Lucario check. Obviously you would use WOW and Hydro Pump with the first spread and Pain Split and Reflect with the second spread. About the first spread, I know you hate giving Heatran Flash Fire boosts with WOW, thats why you would switch over to a Rotom-W (whom Heatran fears due to Hydro Pump). The second spread takes a more defensive approach, if that's what you're into.

    Also, you really need to get rid of one of your water-weak pokemon, otherwise you're going to keep getting run over by anyone with an offensive Water-type. Personally, I would like to see you change your Stallbreaker Gliscor to a Stallbreaker Skarmory, this is the set:

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Keen Eye / Calm
    252 HP / 72 SpD / 184 Spe
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - Toxic / Spikes / Whirlwind
    - Toxic / Spikes / Whirlwind

    Does the same basic thing as Gliscor does, but prevents you from getting water-raped. The EVs are to outspeed Adamant Tyranitar, you can drop the speed a bit and add more to SpD if you want. The Calm nature is to lower your Atk so you hurt less during confusion. The last two slots are up to you really, I don't really like Toxic, but you probably need it.

    Finally two nitpicks:

    "184 Speed allows Dragonite to outrun 16 Spe Suicune (who aims to outrun 4 Spe Rotom)" - I think you mean Gyarados.

    and your Gliscor is missing 4 EVs which should be in speed, this won't matter if you decide to use Skarmory, but I thought I'd let you know.

    Good luck, I'll see you on PO.
  23. afterburn

    afterburn false evidence appearing real
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2009
    Hey, solid team, not much I can say because all the above rates have covered the most important points.

    I think you're weak to Offensive Life Orb Starmie, you're best shot against it, is exploding on it with Heatran, which isn't always a good idea, seeing as he is your revenge killer, and may open you up to other things. Starmie, Hydro Pumps the shit out of Rotom-W(easy 2HKO), Gliscor, Tyranitar, Gyarados is handled by ThunderBolt, Heatran goes down no matter what (if you explode), Gallade may be down seeing as he's in the lead spot. Specially based Life Orb Flygon, something thats getting popular, is also troublesome, as he can dent pretty much everything on your team, with a full powered Draco Meteor, and everything that can take a Draco meteor, goes down to Earthquake.

    To fix the Life Orb Starmie problem, and the Life Orb Flygon problem, try a Life Orb Shaymin over Gliscor. Give Shaymin, 252satk/252spe with a timid nature, and the moves, seed flare, hp ice, earth power, rest. With rest you can keep Shaymin healthy to take on threats like Starmie better and KO with seed flare, since specially based flygon only uses 176 speed, you outspeed and KO with HPice. Obviously with Gliscor gone,you lose a very good Agility Metagross check. To remedy this, definitely try the Rotom-W set suggested by Kokoloko. I know you hate will-o-wisp, but it will weaken Metagross to the point it can be handled by another member of the team (if it doesn't have thunderpunch, Gyarados can take it on, without too much difficulty, without zen headbutt Rotom beats him usually, both scenarios considering he's burnt ).

    In terms of synergy, Shaymin forms the famous Fire/water/grass core with Heatran/Gyarados. Most importantly, Shaymin gives you another water-type resist, according to the type chart, you have 3 water type weak Pokemon and one resist in Gyarados, who can't really repeatedly switch-in thanks to SR, so Shaymin really comes in handy with an additional water type resist

    Thats all I got, GL
  24. Philip7086

    Philip7086 Myuu
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Past SPL and WCoP Championdefeated the Smogon Frontier

    Jun 23, 2008
    Rating on request.

    First of all, I like your name change! But onto the team...

    The biggest weakness you have is obviously to any Water-type, which you can easily see through your type chart. Offensive Suicune, LO Starmie, DD Gyarados all basically sweep you clean (and can come in/set up on Heatran easily), which is a huge bust. A few people have suggested a Grass-type in Gliscor's place to help this problem, but I feel like that opens you to another problem: stall teams. Without Gliscor, you really are looking at some big stall problems, seeing as stall always packs answers to your offensive duo (Gyarados and Tyranitar). With that in mind, here are the alternative changes I recommend:

    I would like to suggest that you change your Heatran to Passho Berry Heatran with the same moves you currently have. The set is:

    Heatran @ Passho Berry
    Hasty / Naive, 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
    -Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    -Earth Pwer
    -Stealth Rock

    To compliment this change, I would change your Rotom to Scarf Rotom instead with this specific set:

    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Timid, 4 HP / 252 Spe / 252 SpA
    -Shadow Ball
    -Hidden Power [Ice] / Hydro Pump

    Let me explain these changes. First of all, Passho Heatran will allow you to get your Stealth Rock up safely, while not being complete Water-type bait. If Starmie comes in, you can just Explode in its face without putting the other members of your team at risk of a STAB Hydro Pump. With that change, though, you lose your revenge killer, which is where the Rotom change comes in. Scarf Rotom will enable you to revenge-kill the problematic Water-types for your team, while also providing Trick to screw over Pokemon like Crocune or Calm Mind Wish Jirachi (who also gives you some major problems if your Heatran is taken out). It also allows you to continue checking Pokemon like Lucario which Scarf Heatran used to check. The option of Hydro Pump and HP Ice is up to you, but I prefer HP Ice on your team, because Dragon Dance Dragonite could potentially give you hell otherwise. These changes will also give you more options to screw with bulky and stally teams. I think you'll see a significant increase in the success of your team with these two simple changes. Best of luck!
  25. DropTheNuke


    Jul 29, 2009
    Looks like a great team.

    I'm gonna second using Passho Heatran over Scarftran, simply for the ability to set up Stealth Rock without getting locked in, and for baiting in Starmie for the kill.

    Instead of scarfed Rotom-W, I suggest you use a scarfed Rotom-H instead. This way, you can check the same threats that Scarftran checks, most importantly Lucario. Without a SpDef drop from Close Combat, T-bolt does 75% max to Lucario, not a very reliable check. Overheat easily OHKO's though.

    Gliscor needs 216 Speed EVs to outrun Lucario.

    I'm really not seeing the merits of Return over Bounce on Gyarados. The only real reason to use Return over EQ in the first place is to hit Dragonite, Gyarados, Zapdos, and Celebi. Bounce hits three of the four harder than Return, and gives you valuable Lefties recovery and a nice paralysis chance.

    Other than that this team looks great.

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