Ubers Analysis Discussion Thread

[Inspirited]

Got CB Ho-Oh fixed to 248 HP / 208 Atk / 52 SpD since Speed creep shouldn't be used in analyses. I left the Life Orb / Leftovers set untouched because of the Leftovers set lacking stopping power. Paging Melee Mewtwo, Edgar, Sweep, Hack, dice, Fireburn on this topic. The fully defensive set could also use 52 SpD but I left it untouched because not all of them run Whirlwind.

 

[dice]

it should still run 52 spd for an emergency check

 

[Inspirited]

Alright, I submitted all the Ho-Oh sets done up this way now.

 

[Inspirited]

malefic
After looking at it, Gira-O can't be simple SCMSed I feel. There are 2 moves that are slashed that should be just moves mentions imo (i.e. Stone Edge and Earthquake), some moves mentions that should probably Other Options at this point (Magic Coat etc), and Shadow Force needs to be slashed with Will-O-Wisp if not first slash. It should probably just be revamped here, if XY analyses are staying separate from ORAS, just because of how much editing needs to be done to the entire analysis.

 

[Inspirited]

Triple post because new topic and tags @_@:
Yveltal still has Max Speed listed for the Life Orb Attacker set. I was going to change the Spread to: 32 HP / 40 Atk / 252 SpA / 184 Spe and also flip the sets so they are the right way instead of alpha order. Fireburn Sweep Hack Edgar dice shrang Melee Mewtwo

Don't tag me please, I'm not C anymore. ~MM2

 

[Minority]

How about updating the slashing on Geo Xern to:

move 1: Geomancy
move 2: Moonblast
move 3: Thunder
move 4: Substitute / Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast

 

[Hack]

Psyshock and aroma (maybe) should be slashed as well

 

[Cobalt314]

Is this thread for revamps only to X/Y analyses, or can we comment on the analyses posted on the main page for the new MEvos?

 

[malefic]

Is this thread for revamps only to X/Y analyses, or can we comment on the analyses posted on the main page for the new MEvos?

from what was communicated to me when I made the thread, you should hold off on that for now

 

[MMII]

I think you guys should go ahead and start doing ORAS analyses. The metagame won't "settle" until after SPL which is a long time to be waiting. Plus, there's already analyses up for ORAS stuff from before the games were even on the sim so I don't think you risk much harm replacing them. It'll take some time for them to finish and get pushed through QC, anyways.

 

[Cobalt314]

I think Primal Groudon deserves a big mention on the Electric Arceus analysis

 

[Minority]

Are old analyses going to be slightly updated or redone altogether? Some mons have changed quite a bit with the new things introduced in ORAS and it could be better to redo them entirely.

 

[Minority]

If this is the go-ahead for reservations

It's not.

 

[Fireburn]

Are old analyses going to be slightly updated or redone altogether? Some mons have changed quite a bit with the new things introduced in ORAS and it could be better to redo them entirely.

Pretty much everything is going to need a revamp because the metagame has changed so dramatically.

Anyway I will be opening the floodgates for analysis reservation soon, stay tuned.

 

[Politoad]

I'm requesting that Landorus-I gets an analysis. Landorus-I is one of the best checks to Groudon-Primal (252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Groudon: 406-478 (100.4 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO), as well as it beats:

- Aegislash (252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 322-382 (99.3 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
- Lucario at the first turn (cuz Mega-Evolve, 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario / Mega Lucario: 608-717 (216.3 - 255.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO )
- Blaziken (unless boosted up, 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 611-720 (202.3 - 238.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
- Deoxys-Normal (which sucks), Deoxys-Speed, Deoxys-Attack (Knock Off OHKOes all of these)
- Dialga (252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 330-390 (81.8 - 96.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
- Mawile-Mega (252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 478-564 (174.4 - 205.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
- Zekrom ( 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Zekrom: 507-601 (148.6 - 176.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
- Arceus-Normal, Arceus-Dark, Arceus-Electric, Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Steel, Arceus-Rock, Arceus-Fight, Arceus-Poison.
- Kyurem-W (252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-W: 403-476 (88.7 - 104.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
- Darkrai if it misses the Dark Void (252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 442-523 (156.7 - 185.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
- Heatran (252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 655-769 (170.1 - 199.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO)

This thing is pretty powerful, it may have a mediocre movepool, but the moves it gets provide just enough usefulness to let Landorus do its job extremely well, and it hits especially hard because of the LO + Sheer Force. The fact that it beats these threats listed above could possibly be enough to receive an analysis.

 

[PISTOLERO]

I'm requesting that Landorus-I gets an analysis. Landorus-I is one of the best checks to Groudon-Primal (252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Groudon: 406-478 (100.4 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO), as well as it beats:

- Aegislash (252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 322-382 (99.3 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
- Lucario at the first turn (cuz Mega-Evolve, 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucario / Mega Lucario: 608-717 (216.3 - 255.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO )
- Blaziken (unless boosted up, 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Blaziken: 611-720 (202.3 - 238.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
- Deoxys-Normal (which sucks), Deoxys-Speed, Deoxys-Attack (Knock Off OHKOes all of these)
- Dialga (252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 330-390 (81.8 - 96.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
- Mawile-Mega (252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 478-564 (174.4 - 205.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
- Zekrom ( 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Zekrom: 507-601 (148.6 - 176.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
- Arceus-Normal, Arceus-Dark, Arceus-Electric, Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Steel, Arceus-Rock, Arceus-Fight, Arceus-Poison.
- Kyurem-W (252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-W: 403-476 (88.7 - 104.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
- Darkrai if it misses the Dark Void (252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Darkrai: 442-523 (156.7 - 185.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
- Heatran (252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 655-769 (170.1 - 199.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO)

This thing is pretty powerful, it may have a mediocre movepool, but the moves it gets provide just enough usefulness to let Landorus do its job extremely well, and it hits especially hard because of the LO + Sheer Force. The fact that it beats these threats listed above could possibly be enough to receive an analysis.

Hello, whilst I was also thinking that Sheer Force Landorus could be good in ORAS Ubers, some of the examples you have posted are wrong and show that you might not have the most up-to-date knowledge of the tier. At best, Landorus can beat things if they switch in, but cannot switch in on anything safely at all, meaning that it is a very poor check to many of these Pokemon

• Aegislash will be running full Special Defense and a Sassy nature to take on Latios, Latias and Xerneas, and would not be staying in anyway.
• Lucario will outspeed you once it has Mega Evolved and can pick you off with Bullet Punch
• Blaziken can just Protect against Landorus and then murder it with Flare Blitz
• Deoxys-Attack will promptly OHKO Landorus with Psycho Boost or Ice Beam
• Deoxys-Speed will set up its two layers of hazards happily
• Mawile is probably a shaky case when it comes to even being viable
• Zekrom can easily be Scarf or Tailwind, outspeed and OHKO Landorus
• Arceus-Normal will almost OHKO with Extremespeed, Arceus-Dark will Calm Mind on Landorus or just Judgment it, Arceus-Electric will promptly OHKO with Ice Beam or Blizzard, Arceus-Rock will be outspeeding and will deal severe damage with Judgment, Arceus-Fighting is unviable, and Arceus-Poison has drastically dropped in usability.
• Kyurem-W will most likely be Scarf and will promptly OHKO with Ice Beam
• Darkrai will Dark Void, then KO with Dark Pulse after Bad Dreams damage

You're forgetting that Lati@s are in the tier, and are extremely competent checks that are further bolstered by Soul Dew, you can hit them with Knock Off but that's not the most reliable solution
You will also be using Primal Groudon on your team so you will have to justify using two Ground-types, although in this case they are different enough that it is not really a big deal
Support Arceus are not 2HKOed by Earth Power and can burn Landorus before Recovering any damage away
A wide variety of Pokemon outspeed Landorus and can OHKO it. Giratina-Origin does not care in the slightest about Knock Off and can easily shrug off a Psychic, offering an OHKO with Draco Meteor in return.

 

[Politoad]

Hello, whilst I was also thinking that Sheer Force Landorus could be good in ORAS Ubers, some of the examples you have posted are wrong and show that you might not have the most up-to-date knowledge of the tier. At best, Landorus can beat things if they switch in, but cannot switch in on anything safely at all, meaning that it is a very poor check to many of these Pokemon

• Aegislash will be running full Special Defense and a Sassy nature to take on Latios, Latias and Xerneas, and would not be staying in anyway.
• Lucario will outspeed you once it has Mega Evolved and can pick you off with Bullet Punch
• Blaziken can just Protect against Landorus and then murder it with Flare Blitz
• Deoxys-Attack will promptly OHKO Landorus with Psycho Boost or Ice Beam
• Deoxys-Speed will set up its two layers of hazards happily
• Mawile is probably a shaky case when it comes to even being viable
• Zekrom can easily be Scarf or Tailwind, outspeed and OHKO Landorus
• Arceus-Normal will almost OHKO with Extremespeed, Arceus-Dark will Calm Mind on Landorus or just Judgment it, Arceus-Electric will promptly OHKO with Ice Beam or Blizzard, Arceus-Rock will be outspeeding and will deal severe damage with Judgment, Arceus-Fighting is unviable, and Arceus-Poison has drastically dropped in usability.
• Kyurem-W will most likely be Scarf and will promptly OHKO with Ice Beam
• Darkrai will Dark Void, then KO with Dark Pulse after Bad Dreams damage

You're forgetting that Lati@s are in the tier, and are extremely competent checks that are further bolstered by Soul Dew, you can hit them with Knock Off but that's not the most reliable solution
You will also be using Primal Groudon on your team so you will have to justify using two Ground-types, although in this case they are different enough that it is not really a big deal
Support Arceus are not 2HKOed by Earth Power and can burn Landorus before Recovering any damage away
A wide variety of Pokemon outspeed Landorus and can OHKO it. Giratina-Origin does not care in the slightest about Knock Off and can easily shrug off a Psychic, offering an OHKO with Draco Meteor in return.

I was in fact just calcing stuff from what the calc've showed me, so that's the reason. Thanks.

 

[malefic]

not QC but i think sand rush should remain the first set. sand isn't non-existent. also, i don't get how bulky rapid spin is that much more viable than in xy, where it didn't receive an analysis. that it fares decently against some lati and diancie looks like all it has going for it

e: i'm ambivalent as to whether the above merits bulky exca getting a set, but sand rush definitely should

 

[TFL]

What do you think of a set like this, Thugly Duckling and malefic? Just started to experiment with it, but it seems like a pretty decent lead for hyper offense. Sets Stealth Rock (even against Magic Bounce mons), threatens Primal Groudon and Lati@s, and can keep hazards off so you can aggressively play stuff like Ray, MegaMence etc.

 

[malefic]

^ looks cool to me, if a bit niche. could probably include it under a mold breaker set with different ev spreads and items mentioned

 

[Muk]

In the interest of time and effort, I really don't think every single analysis is in need of a full revamp. Most of the analyses for less important Pokemon would probably be fine with minor edits.

I briefly discussed this with Fireburn a while ago, but I figured I'd post it here to see what everyone else thinks.

 

[Didoy75]

Why is Prankster Thundurus useless in Ubers ?
I feel like Prankster T-Wave/Toxic is very useful and Prankster Taunt does too.
And it has a very good coverage in Thunderbolt + HP Ice.

A bulky spread that isn't 2HKOd by +1 Jolly Double Edge M-Mence could make it one of the most reliable check to M-Mence (which is everywhere) and Rayquaza.

Outside of that it can Stallbreak thanks to Taunt and Toxic.

Of course it isn't bulky enough etc. for the Ubers tier but if his only role is to cripple opponents with status, to stallbreak, and to check Ray and MMence, imo it could be viable.

111 Speed BS is a really good speed for Uber.

 

[Minority]

Who said Thundy was useless? As I recall it is not necessarily the best mon, but is perfectly viable.

 

[Didoy75]

Who said Thundy was useless? As I recall it is not necessarily the best mon, but is perfectly viable.

You're right, nobody said it but I haven't seen it in Uber since the beginning of ORAS.

 

[Sweep]

STOP MENTIONING HEATRAN IN ORAS UBERS ANALYSES