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Ubers Combination Thread (Generation 5 Edition)

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by trickroom, Jun 20, 2011.

  1. trickroom

    trickroom
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Fireburn Edit - Hey guys, could you please use HIDE tags from now on when posting sets to make it easier to scroll through and read? Thanks in advance!

    This thread is for generation 5 Ubers. The older thread is found here made by bojangles.

    The same rules apply here too.

    Please use the specific format with each submission for easy additions. Eventually this may turn into an article so any help would be appreciated. Feel free to discuss any and every combination that is posted too. Here are definitions for the categories of combinations:

    defensive combinations - 2 Pokemon that use type resistances or general defensive stats (or both) to help switch into each other's threatening pokemon's attacks. Examples for type would be Rayquaza and Magnezone, as both resist all of the other's weaknesses (and coincidentally, all of the other types as well). Note I specifically used to offensively inclined pokemon to demonstrate this has to do with switching into attacks; offensive pokemon can be partners in defensive combinations. Examples for general defensive stats would be Groudon and Blissey; 1 covers the physical spectrum very well while the other covers the special spectrum excellently.

    offensive combinations - 2 Pokemon whose attacks cover what the other cannot defeat. An example would be Choice Specs Kyogre and Choice Band Tyranitar. Tyranitar gets rid of Palkia not stuck on Water-type attacks with Pursuit while OHKOing Ludicolo with Stone Edge at the same time. Kyogre on the other hand, smashes Groudon with Water- or Ice-type attacks.

    strategic (this is my catch all for all random combinations) - 2 Pokemon (or concepts) who work together, not necessarily through typing or offensively benefits, to accomplish some goal. Examples would be Toxic Spikes + Substitute Special Attack, like Forretress and Substitute Calm Mind Ghost Arceus. These 2 don't necessarily have optimal defensive typings for each other or possess attacks that cover each other well, but the Toxic Spikes that Forretress provides help Ghost Arceus to easily defeat Chansey, Blissey or even non Rest Kyogre.

    Arceus combinations - Since Arceus is so versatile and can perform any role, I am putting this in a separate category. Examples will be Fire Arceus + Groudon or Ground Arceus + Kyogre.

    Wobbuffet combinations - A combination that is centered around using Wobbuffet's support to aid another Pokémon. Usually, Wobbuffet will support its partner by either eliminating Choice Scarf revenge killers or using Encore to give its partner a free time to set up. A good example of this is Wobbuffet + Darkrai. Wobbuffet is able to revenge kill Choice Scarfers such as Palkia and Dialga, and can use Encore on a support Pokémon such as Lugia to help set Darkrai up. Even with the unfortunate Encore nerf, Wobbuffet can still function reliably to set up frailer Pokemon such as Rayquaza.

    Use the same format in bojangles thread.

    [Pokemon A@item and nature, move 1 / move 2 / move 3 / move 4 + Pokemon B@item and nature, move 1 / move 2 / move 3 / move 4]

    [Combination Type]

    [Explanation, you can give specific names to the pokemon to provide a more in detail look at the combination)]

    [What this combination doesn't work on]

    [What direction to go in order to fix what it doesn't work on]

    NOTE: Please be as competitive as possible. Joke or lousy sets will just be ignored or I will inform the moderators to deal with it. Things such as Electivire + Gyarados is nothing more than a trolly combination to use in Ubers. Electivire sucks because it can't do anything in Ubers. Fireburn is angry so you have to deal with it.

    Remember, please try to be brief while still explaining the main, necessary points. Sprites can be used to attract attention but they aren't necessary.

    Thank you very for much for your future contributions. I provided one example below in the Defensive category.

    Current submissions (in order)

    Offensive
    Show Hide

    Tobes
    [Kyogre@Choice Specs and Modest, Water Spout / Thunder / Ice Beam / Surf + Rayquaza@Life Orb and Jolly, Outrage / ExtremeSpeed / Earthquake / Dragon Dance]

    [​IMG]+[​IMG]

    [Offensive Combination]

    [It's no secret that Specs Kyogre is a deadly wallbreaker, and this combination capitalizes on it. A Modest Water Spout from Choice Specs Kyogre conveniently places 4 HP Palkia in KO range of a +1 ExtremeSpeed from Rayquaza. It also cripples Ferrothorn, the most prominent Steel-type in Ubers, making it very difficult for it to wall a +1 Outraging Rayqauza. Earthquake disuades Choice Scarf Terrakion from switching in on a predicted Dragon Dance and smashes Steel Arceus, and also dispatches Dialga without Rayquaza from having to lock itself into Outrage. Overheat is also an option for removing a full-health Ferrothorn, making it much more difficult for the opponent to handle Kyogre.]

    [This combination appreciates Rapid Spin (Rayqauza is SR weak, Kyogre needs full power Water Spouts). I personally enjoy using Choice Band Kabutops here which can also deal with Choice Scarf Terrakion in the rain if Kabutops packs Aqua Jet or a Jolly nature. Paralysis support is also appreciated here since it helps Kyogre deal with offensive teams more easily, and also makes Rayquaza more difficult to revenge kill if the opponent is relying on a Choice Scarfer.]

    Mr.lol
    [Kyogre@Choice Specs and Modest, Water Spout / Thunder / Ice Beam / Surf + Genesect@Choice Scarf and Hasty OR Lonely, Explosion / Ice Beam / Iron Head / U-turn]

    [​IMG]+[​IMG]

    [Offensive Combination]

    [Specs Kyogre is a deadly wallbreaker, and this combination attempts to abuse its immense strength by removing the few things that can switch in on it. A Modest Water Spout from Choice Specs Kyogre conveniently places Latias and Grass Arceus into a range where it can be OHKOed by Ice Beam the turn after if it has taken Stealth Rock damage. Genesect can switch into Latias with ease the turn it tries to Recover or hit Kyogre with a move and force it to switch out or kill it with U-turn. U-turn capitalizes on double switching, allowing you to put Kyogre in that same scenario again, and force that Latias or Grass Arceus to eat another Specs Spout, or if you predict correctly, a Specs Ice Beam. Both will OHKO the two if they did not choose Recover, and the idea is to Pressure them towards choosing an attacking move, unless they want the rest of their team to stomach + 1 U-turns for a while. Giratina-a and Gastrodon are also easy pickings for the core, as the former will be unable to avoid being 3HKOed by Specs Kyogre's Ice Beam or 3HKOed by Genesect's Iron Head, while Gastrodon falls into the range of an OHKO of a Specs Ice Beam after Genesect releases his +1 U-turn.]

    [This combination does not work on Palkia unfortunately, as its Thunder will 2HKO both Genesect and Kyogre while it avoids the 2HKO from Specs Water Spout. Water Arceus is also a pain to deal with it, while it is 2HKOed by Specs Thunder from Kyogre, it will be able to maim both Pokemon with Grass Knot and Judgment.]

    [These two problems can be fixed by adding Chansey or Grass Arceus to the team. Grass Arceus can start a Calm Mind war with Water Arceus or just setup in the face of Choice Scarf Palkia locked into any move. It can also take advantage of the holes broken into Ferrothorn and Chansey to start a Calm Mind sweep. Chansey may not be able to sweep but it can stall out Palkia and Water Arceus with Toxic while serving as a decent Cleric, being able to pass Wishes to Genesect and Kyogre to restore their longevity and allow Kyogre to spam more Choice Specs Water Spouts.]

    Mr.lol
    [Zekrom@Choice Band OR Life Orb, Lonely, Bolt Strike / Volt Switch / Outrage / Dragon Claw OR Focus Blast OR Draco Meteor+ Genesect@ Choice Scarf, Hasty, Ice Beam / U-turn / Iron Head / Explosion OR Flamethrower]

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    [CAN YOU SAY VOLT-TURN IN UBERS? This combo not only has excellent defensive-type synergy, but GREAT Offensive Synergy as well. Pokemon Genesect can't plow through like Giratina-a or Lugia are easily broken by the raw power of Choice Banded Bolt Strikes and Outrages. Genesect in return can easily beat up enemy Grass Arceus, Latios, and Latias, Pokemon that can annoy Zekrom with their high-speed or resistances. To add to the fun, both get STAB Volt Switch and U-turn, meaning that this core can easily keep momentum, preventing it from flowing out of a persons favor. This core practically defines hell for rain stall, and sand stall as well as classic stall aren't going to enjoy going against this core either. Pair this up with hazards and that residual damage rack will go up extremely fast.]

    [Something notable is how this core cannot get past Groudon that easily, while it is 2HKOed by Choice Banded Outrage, and dislikes Life Orbed Draco Meteor, Groudon can threaten both Pokemon with Fire Punch and Earthquake. Ground Arceus can switch into everything but a +1 Ice Beam from Genesect and proceed to pound both Pokemon with a STAB Earthquake. Palkia is also a bit problematic, with access to Surf and Spacial Rend, Palkia can easily use its STAB moves to take down Genesect and Zekrom.]

    [These simple problems can easily be assuaged with a Grass Arceus. Grass Arceus resists STAB Ground-type moves and can stop or even setup on a Palkia in the rain. Giratina-O can resist Ground-type moves and can serve as a spin blocker should you decide to use hazards to add to the damage their Volt Switches and U-turns do over time. While it doesn't help fix any problems permanently, Deoxys-S can provide hazard support, which when combined with the massive damage U-turn and Volt Switch will be accumulating, might just be enough to wear down the checks that can come in on the two, as their checks conveniently happen to be weak to Stealth Rocks and Spikes.]


    Defensive
    Show Hide

    trickroom
    [Lugia@leftovers and Bold, Ice Beam / Reflect / Roost / Whirlwind
    Chansey@Eviolite and Calm, Seismic toss / Toxic / Softboiled / Snatch]

    [​IMG]+ [​IMG]

    [Say hello to arguably the toughest defensive core to break in the game. Lugia is extremely bulky, has access to reliable recovery, Reflect, phazing and a variety of status moves. A Bold nature is needed to comfortably deal with Dragon Dance Rayquaza, Groudon and Ho-Oh. Chansey is the best special wall in Ubers since Sandstorm is extremely rare while the extra bulk over Blissey proves to be invaluable. Nothing in the game stops Choice Specs Dialga, Palkia and most Calm Mind Arceus variants better than Chansey can. Snatch is used to prevent any likely Dark Arceus sweep.]

    [Darkrai can sleep either Lugia or Chansey and prepare to sweep with Nasty Plot unless Toxic Spikes are up. Darkrai can pummel Lugia with Dark Pulse and Chansey with boosted Focus Blast. Steel Arceus threatens the duo with boosted Judgments while being immune to Toxic. Choice Specs Kyogre can drown both with Choice Specs Water Spout as long as Kyogre is using a Modest nature and is at full health. Choice Scarf Zekrom can 2HKO both with Bolt Strike if Reflect isn't up.]

    [Scarf Palkia can eliminate Darkrai with Draco Meteor easily. Palkia resists Water-type attacks and can threaten Kyogre with Thunder. Groudon can be used to deal with Steel Arceus and Choice Scarf Zekrom. Kyogre drowns both Steel Arceus and Darkrai while possessing enough bulk to stave off most attacks.]

    firecape / Mr.lol
    [Tentacruel@Leftovers Calm, (Scald / Ice Beam) / Toxic Spikes / Rapid Spin / (Protect / Knock Off) + Ferrothorn@Leftovers Sassy, Spikes / Leech Seed / Protect / Gyro Ball]

    [​IMG]+ [​IMG]

    [These 2 Pokemon have quite decent synergy and both work great together to set up hazards. Both also have great passive recovery. Tentacruel can recover 12% of its HP per turn with rain active and Rain Dish (obviously making Kyogre a teammate, who also lessens Ferrothorn's Fire weakness), which is what Protect hopes to abuse. Ferrothorn can recover quite a bit of HP per turn too, with Leech Seed and Leftovers in tandem with Protect. I went the specially defensive route with both seeing as special attacks are far more common in ubers.]

    [Groudon can unfortunately OHKO both of these with its 2 most common attacking moves (Fire Punch + Earthquake), and it also cancels Tentacruel's Rain Dish. Groudon is easy to deal with though. Simply pack a Giratina-O (which is also pretty much necessary to block Rapid Spin) with Dragon Tail and a decent amount of speed and Groudon can't touch you. Also, if you can lure out a Fire Punch Kyogre can switch in, switch the weather to rain, and DROWN ALL. Ho-Oh demolishes both with Sacred Fire or Brave Bird which will OHKO either Ferrothorn or Tentacruel. Scald does pitiful damage to Ho-Oh and it can never be burned.]

    Furai
    [Arceus@Leftovers Impish, Will-O-Wisp / Return / Recover / (Roar/Perish Song) + Chansey@Eviolite Calm, Toxic / Wish / Softboiled / (Seismic Toss/Stealth Rock)]

    [​IMG]+[​IMG]

    [Ah, these two wonderful walls. One of them creates a very sturdy physical wall, and the other is probably the best special wall in the Ubers metagame. The former one being, Wallceus of course and the latter is Chansey. Wallceus can take care of physical threats and shut them down with Will-O-Wisp, something Chansey obviously can't do with her base 5 Defense, or phaze them out with Roar in case they try to set up or use Perish Song in order to limit their sweep. While Wallceus takes care of physical threats, Chansey does the job on the special side, with her enourmous special bulk of 642 HP and 508 SpD. Chansey can also take care of special threats with Toxic; that will make them die very quick as Toxic damage gets bigger each turn.]

    [Entry Hazards, especially Toxic Spikes, will shut this combo down rather quick. Wallceus does not enjoy being poisoned at all, and Chansey does not appreciate it either. Spikes will cause 25% damage each switch in assuming 3 layers are laid, and since this combo alternates between physical bulk and special bulk, you're going to switch a lot, causing more damage to Wallceus or Chansey. Plus, this combo does not appreciate hard hitting moves like SpecsOgre's Water Spout, as Chansey won't be able to take them forever. Moreover, both share their typing, which is only Normal type, making them prone to Fighting attacks.]

    [A simple way to fix this is to use another combination; Ferrothorn and Tentacruel. This combination is rather common in Ubers, combined with Kyogre to boost its effectiveness by abling allowing Tentacruel's ability, Rain Dish, to work and by lowering Ferrothorn's x4 Fire- weakness to x2. Tentacruel can spin away hazards, which is mentioned above, can cripple this combination. While Tentacruel Rapid Spins hazards away, it can also set hazards among with Ferrothorn, and since Wallceus and Chansey wall a big variety of Pokemon, they will switch out and take damage each turn. Due to this combination's weakness to Fighting attacks, Giratina-O works very good in this combo, as it is immune to Fighting attacks and can also break Stall very well. Giratina also falls in the same category, but he cannot break Stall.]

    syrim
    [Kyogre@Leftovers, Bold OR Calm, but physically defensive, Roar/scald/rest/sleeptalk+Arceus Grass@Meadow Plate, Timid, specially defensive, Judgment OR Grass Knot/ WoW/ Recover/ Ice beam]

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    [This combo has excellent synergy, in many ways. Obviously they share great type synergy, and kyogre removes one of Grass Arceus' weaknesses. But they also counter many threatening Pokemon, and combinations of Pokemon, while matching up well versus most team archetypes. Kyogre can easily absorb Ice attacks, and even dragon attacks if you run a SpD set from Kyu-w, but most importantly it can check Ho-oh, and restore rain while doing so. Grass Arceus can check Palkia, zekrom, dialga in the rain, and many other Pokemon likely to attempt to threaten Kyogre. Another added benefit is the extreme likelihood that Ferrothorn will get burned against this combination, which makes it unable to force out Grassceus unless it carries toxic.]

    [Groudon@Leftovers, Impish, 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe, Earthquake / Stone Edge / Roar / Stealth Rock + Skarmory@Leftovers, Careful, 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef, Whirlwind / Roost / Toxic OR Taunt / Spikes OR Taunt]

    [​IMG]+[​IMG]

    [A nice pair of defensive pivots that can be slotted nicely into an offensive team. Extreme Killer Arceus can be a real threat to offensive teams, and this pair (especially if a Kyogre is partnered to remove Skarmory's weakness to the odd Overheat when you need it) should be more than enough to handle it, while also functioning as a general defensive tool or hazard setters. The core is weak to the likes of Kyurem-W and Latias, of course, but those can be handled well enough by teammates. An Ice-type resistant Pokemon is especially important for handling Kyurem-W. But it's still a pretty nice standalone core.]


    Strategic
    Show Hide
    barry4ever
    [Kyogre@Choice Specs / Scarf, Timid / Modest, Water Spout / Surf / Ice Beam / Thunder Ferrothorn@Leftovers, Sassy, Leech Seed / Spikes / Power Whip or Gyro Ball / Protect]

    [​IMG] + [​IMG]

    [Possibly one of the most annoying mixed cores of 5th Generation. The basic idea is to fire off Water Spouts and Surfs with Kyogre and if usual Kyogre checks like Palkia try to stop you, simply switch to Ferrothorn and start laying down Spikes or use Leech Seed to sap off health from the attacker. Blissey or Chansey is easily dealt with thanks to Leech Seed which will heal a huge chunk of Ferrothorn's HP thanks to the blobs massive HP stat. The torrential rainfall Kyogre brings is highly beneficial for Ferrothorn since it reduces its 4x Fire weakness and allows it to annoy Pokemon like Giratina-O. Ferrothorn can also force out Gastrodon with Power Whip and is immune to Spikes. Eventually the Spikes will wear away your opponents Kyogre switch in and leave them prone to a Kyogre sweep.]

    [Choice Scarf Palkia has to play a guessing game with this core. However with sufficient entry hazards and proper prediction it can still threaten the core, roasting Ferrothorn with Fire Blast and scaring off Kyogre with Thunder. Non Scarf variants can be trouble especially the Sub Focus Punch variants who can get a Sub on the switch and smack Ferrothorn for some serious damage with Focus Punch especially for the Specially Defensive variants. Grass Arceus can be annoying to face since it laughs at Ferrothorn and can threaten Kyogre with Grass Knot, while being able to live two Water Spouts with sufficient investment in Special Defense. Darkrai can be annoying especially the Choice Scarf or Focus Sash variants since it can put Kyogre to sleep, effectively shutting down the core.]

    [Support Dialga can deal with most Palkia if it is not low on health since a Draco Meteor will easily dispatch all variants. It also takes pitiful damage from Judgement or Grass Knot from Grass Arceus and can even Roar it out. Dialga can also set up Stealth Rock to further wear away switch ins. Dialga equipped with a Lum Berry and Thunder Wave can be used to cripple Darkrai leads.]

    Moo / Jibaku
    [Heatran@Leftovers and Calm, Flamethrower / Taunt / Roar / Toxic + Giratina-O@Griseous Orb and Lonely, Draco Meteor / Hidden Power Fire / Shadow Sneak / Dragon Tail]

    [​IMG] + [​IMG]

    [Ok this is a really good stallbreaking combo. Heatran uses Taunt, Roar and Toxic to stop stall-based Pokemon, while Giratina uses its great mixed attacks. The two have great synergy together. Heatran takes Ghost-, Dark-, Dragon-, and Ice-type attacks for Giratina, while Giratina is immune to Fighting- and Ground-type attacks and resists Water-type attacks.]

    [They can have a little trouble with some offensive stuff between them like Specs Kyogre and other stuff that I cant name off the top of my head (Skymin if it has Earth Power). Reshiram is a problem too because it can hit Heatran with Blue Flame and Giratina with Draco Meteor.]

    [Ferrothorn and Blissey can somewhat check Kyogre and Shaymin-S. Palkia for Reshiram if you predict right.]

    mtr
    [Manaphy@Leftovers, Timid, Calm Mind/Surf/Ice Beam/Rest, Kyogre@Leftovers, Bold, Surf/Calm Mind/Rest/Sleep Talk]

    [​IMG]+ [​IMG]

    [This core works well on Rain-based stallish teams. Defensive Kyogre is sturdy enough to counter RPDon and set up Rain with some frequency, while Manaphy in the Rain is incredibly powerful now that its chief counters, Latias and Latios, are rarely used in Wifi Ubers. Between the two of them, stall teams will suffer once Rain is guaranteed, and even offensive teams have difficulty breaking them down because of their bulk. Manaphy can also switch into SDRay and take ExtremeSpeed, as well as defeating non-Life Orb Darkrai in the Rain (and all Darkrai if you predict a Dark Void).]

    [Zekrom pretty much shits on this combo, as well as Electric Arceus. Something else that can be annoying is a well-played Groudon+Latias/Latios combination. Enemy Kyogres with CM and Thunder (or just SpecsOgre), as you may expect, are a nuisance. Finally, CM Grass Arceus and any Perish Song Arceus can shut down your Calm Minding dreams.]

    [Ferrothorn is a good check on Zekrom, and Grass/Electric Arceus and CM Latias/Latios all lose to Blissey. If Blissey has Calm Mind or Psych Up, she can beat an enemy CM Kyogre with Thunder as well barring bad luck with Crits. CM Grass Arceus is also recommended for this role. Finally, you can use a core of Forretress/Giratina, and with intelligent prediction you can bait Zekrom's Outrage into Forry to defeat it.

    syrim

    [​IMG] + [​IMG]
    Dialga@Leftovers, Modest, Stealth Rock / Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Roar OR Thunder+ Forretress@Leftovers, Calm, Spikes / Rapid Spin / Volt Switch / Toxic Spikes OR Pain Split]

    [This combo is easily capable of applying huge pressure to any team variant, both through great bulk, and the combined utility of easily laying hazards while working together to ensure their eventual removal. When Forretress is brought into play, especially versus what it usually sets up on that cannot threaten it such as Chansey and Ferrothorn, Volt Switch can greatly reduce the negative impacts of prediction at the cost of a moveslot, and Dialga makes the perfect, bulky, strong partner to switch to. The two most common spin blockers are completely forced out by Dialga, who can also ensure chip damage on a fleeing Gira-O through Stealth Rock. This forces the opponent to either have to take the hit and lose their spin blocker, or switch and rack up more hazard damage, especially if one uses Roar Dialga, or certainly take a powerful hit. If one decides to include Thunder, a Ghost Arceus that switches into two layers of hazards, and gets paralyzed, will have a 100% chance of dying to Draco Meteor the following turn unless it runs SpD evs. Roar is obviously a great option as well to take advantage of your own hazards and beat stuff like Darkceus. The most important way to play this combo is to get it into action early. Whether you choose to lay hazards early, or simply start pressuring your opponents hazard core, which will be a match up based decision, the less time you allow them to take momentum through hazards the more likely you are to successfully break their spin blocking core.]


    Arceus combination
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    Wobbuffet combination

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  2. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

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    You should mention Zekrom since any variant can break Lugia + Chansey.
  3. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Zekrom actually gets outstalled by Lugia with Reflect + Roost which negates the Electric weakness. I will mention Scarf Zekrom though since it 2HKOes both.

    EDIT: Lugia has Pressure which is already enough to out stall Bolt Strike in 4 turns. The Zekrom set in the analysis runs no Speed so I assume Lugia outspeeds all non Scarf Zekrom. Double Dance Terrakion is very rare at the moment and it can only sweep it it comes in on Chansey. I already added Groudon as a partner.
  4. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

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    With the bold nature, you're too slow unless you're running a lot in Speed which'll be significiant on your Def. Zekrom can 2HKO any variant of Lugia unless he come on the field when Lugia setup Reflect. And even in that case, Lugia'll lose since he need a need a turn to setup Reflect again (Reflect'll last 4 turn which isnt enough to pp wast all of the Zekrom's STAB Elec).

    Also, having something like Groudon/Arceus Ground'll help for Zekrom and Terrakion double dance who can break your combo.
  5. polop

    polop
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    A technically OU strategetic/defensive core that rules in ubers :D. Although if there were an option for support core this would fit better XD.

    Ferrothorn@ leftovers and relaxed, leech seed/thunder wave/ power whip/ spikes and Tentacruel@ black sludge and calm, scald/ rapid spin/ toxic spikes/ confuse ray

    The duo aims to set up 5 layers of entry hazards and use confusion or parafusion to cause switching and lure in forry that will be scalded into oblivion. Ferrothorn takes any non SE hits aimed at the defensive side and draco meteors while tenta takes non SE hits from the special side. The two cripple their foe/ foes with thunderwave and confuse ray and set up hazards. The duo appreciates rain support since it can lengthen their lifespan by taking ferro's fire weakenss to a lower scale and letting tenta activate rain dish.

    Mixquaza rips the two into pieces fire blasting ferro while just hitting tenta physically. But it has to be wary of thunder wave and running out of fire blast pp hitting the wrong thing if it runs over heat a miss play is fatal. Groudon can fire punch ferrothorn while eqing tentacruel but it HATES power whips and doesnt like to be burned with scald. Darkrai can send something to bed but really hates paralysis and tentacreul in the rain can kill it off if it sleep ferrothorn since it can decently eat dark pulses. Magical mirror espeon koes both if there is no rain but miss predicition can lead to a power whip which 2hkoes the switch in.

    Really the threats are dealt with good prediction but... kyogre can offer rain to get rid of espeon scarfed ogre screw darkrai over and can absorb the trick, scarf ice beam gets rid of quaza and it loves the 25% damage to all switch ins. It forces groudon to move and can absorb a fire punch aimed at ferro while retaliating with a surf/waterspout.
  6. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    Show Hide
    Kyogre@Choice Specs / Scarf, Timid / Modest, Water Spout / Surf / Ice Beam / Thunder + Ferrothorn@Leftovers, Sassy, Leech Seed / Spikes / Power Whip or Gyro Ball / Protect

    [Strategic Combination]

    [Possibly one of the most annoying mixed cores of 5th Generation. The basic idea is to fire off Water Spouts and Surfs with Kyogre and if usual Kyogre checks like Palkia try to stop you, simply switch to Ferrothorn and start laying down Spikes or use Leech Seed to sap off health from the attacker. Blissey or Chansey is easily dealt with thanks to Leech Seed which will heal a huge chunk of Ferrothorn's HP thanks to the blobs massive HP stat. The torrential rainfall Kyogre brings is highly beneficial for Ferrothorn since it reduces its 4x Fire weakness and allows it to annoy Pokemon like Giratina-O. Ferrothorn can also force out Gastrodon with Power Whip and is immune to Spikes. Eventually the Spikes will wear away your opponents Kyogre switch in and leave them prone to a Kyogre sweep.]

    [Choice Scarf Palkia has to play a guessing game with this core. However with sufficient entry hazards and proper prediction it can still threaten the core, roasting Ferrothorn with Fire Blast and scaring off Kyogre with Thunder. Non Scarf variants can be trouble especially the Sub Focus Punch variants who can get a Sub on the switch and smack Ferrothorn for some serious damage with Focus Punch especially for the Specially Defensive variants. Grass Arceus can be annoying to face since it laughs at Ferrothorn and can threaten Kyogre with Grass Knot, while being able to live two Water Spouts with sufficient investment in Special Defense. Darkrai can be annoying especially the Choice Scarf or Focus Sash variants since it can put Kyogre to sleep, effectively shutting down the core.]

    [Support Dialga can deal with most Palkia if it is not low on health since a Draco Meteor will easily dispatch all variants. It also takes pitiful damage from Judgement or Grass Knot from Grass Arceus and can even Roar it out. Dialga can also set up Stealth Rock to further wear away switch ins. Dialga equipped with a Lum Berry and Thunder Wave can be used to cripple Darkrai leads.]
  7. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    Hmm I have a combo similar to this... but you have some questionable choices in yours so I'll post mine. First off, Black Sludge is quite a bad item. It offers no competitive advantage over Leftovers and simply gives Trick users another weapon to use against you. Second, Confuse Ray is a gimmick at best, and Ferrothorn won't survive nearly as long without protect. Protect is also superior, in my opinion, because as long as you don't spam it at every opportunity it can be great at easing prediction in a metagame where 2+ choice Pokemon are quite usable on offensive teams.

    ps: dum formatting for the pokemon but whatever 9.9

    Show Hide

    [Tentacruel@Leftovers Calm, (Scald / Ice Beam) / Toxic Spikes / Rapid Spin / Protect + Ferrothorn@Leftovers Sassy, Spikes / Leech Seed / Protect / Gyro Ball]

    [Defensive Combination]

    [These 2 Pokemon have quite decent synergy and both work great together to set up hazards. Both also have great passive recovery. Tentacruel can recover 12% of its HP per turn with rain active and Rain Dish (obviously making Kyogre a teammate, who also lessens Ferrothorn's Fire weakness), which is what Protect hopes to abuse. Ferrothorn can recover quite a bit of HP per turn too, with Leech Seed and Leftovers in tandem with Protect. I went the specially defensive route with both seeing as special attacks are far more common in ubers.]

    [Groudon can unfortunately OHKO both of these with its 2 most common attacking moves (Fire Punch + Earthquake), and it also cancels Tentacruel's Rain Dish. Groudon is easy to deal with though. Simply pack a Giratina-O (which is also pretty much necessary to block Rapid Spin) with Dragon Tail and a decent amount of speed and Groudon can't touch you. Also, if you can lure out a Fire Punch Kyogre can switch in, switch the weather to rain, and DROWN ALL. (probably more but I have to go to school now!)]]
  8. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Updated the OP. If a mod sees this thread and wishes to edit it, please feel free to do so. I might not be actively updating it because school life sucks.

    Fireburn and Jibaku said Tentacruel sucks but I like it. Since firecape likes it too, I am adding it to the thread. Unless Jibaku or Fireburn really wants Tentacruel out, you can edit right into the OP.
  9. polop

    polop
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    To answer some of firecape's responses...

    Black sludge with rain dish restores 1/8 of tentacruel's hp per turn. Black sludge is superior to leftovers in every way due to the fact it hurts trick users (you can predict the next trick most of the time, if you can't do that just put lefties) but if you really hated trick THAT much you could just put mail but the recovery hurts tentacruel a lot. Protect has advantages of essentially recovering 1/8 hp but from my experience parafusion and confusion is the only way I've forced some switches without some some arceus or poke phazing. Also protect offers the chance for a rayquaza or extreme killer to set up 4 free D: if they can predict the protect. If either one runs overheat then they can rip the pair even though they have to worry about the overheat being predicted. I can't directly edit the post but mention of mixquaza, darkrai, and espeon as counters would be useful. I agree to having protect slashed for thunder wave and confuse ray as one without the other doesn't help the pair much
  10. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    If you give them Black Sludge they can Trick it to one of your other mons and cripple it. That's generally why Leftovers>Black Sludge.

    Also I still dislike Tentacruel but I'll let sleeping dogs lie for now. nvm I tried him and he's actually not bad.

    Oh yeah, and now that we have HIDE Tags, I feel those should be used from now on to make everything easier to read.
  11. trickroom

    trickroom
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    That's rather inaccurate to me. Tentacruel can just stay in on the most likely user of Trick = Darkrai. Darkrai cannot eliminate Tentacruel without Nasty Plot as even Thunder fails to 2HKO without Life Orb. Tentacruel can survive Dark Pulse easily while Darkrai is forced to take Black Sludge damage. If Darkrai tries to trick to another opponent, Tentacruel can just come in again since Darkrai struggles to take out Tentacruel. Oh yeah Tentacruel beats Trick Jirachi too unless it has Zen Headbutt.

    We can continue the Tentacruel argument anytime :P Also Tentacruel is the only spinner not immediately KOed by Dialga or Kyogre.

    NOTE: Fireburn wants HIDE TAGS instead of Codes so use it!

    Also, BS why did Fireburn removed some parts of the OP ;_;

    I thought Fireburn will post some Ho-Oh combinations but he didn't probs cuz he's afraid of Gyarados.
  12. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    This would make a really good article, will edit a combo into the thread :p
  13. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    Can we do DW Ubers, or only regular ubers?
  14. tomtom5858

    tomtom5858

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    Either should work, just specify.
  15. trickroom

    trickroom
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    You can post Dream World combinations too unless a mod says no. Does Arceus really suck? No one is even posting one that features Arceus...

    Wobbuffet does suck now though because Encore nerf hurts it. One turn of free set up just isn't enough. Other than trapping Scarf users, Wobbuffet is pretty useless and it cannot harm Ferrothorn much either unless Wob came in on an attacking move.
  16. polop

    polop
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    Show Hide
    [Jirachi@leftovers and adamant, thunder wave / iron head / wish / U-turn + Rayquaza@life orb and mild, Draco meteor / Fire blast / dragon claw / earthquake]

    [Strategic/Offensive]

    [This core can annoy you and you wont even realize what it can do to you until rayquaza comes out. Jirachi's thunderwave enables Rayquaza to outspeed its opponent's while rayquaza can take advantage of the paralysis and invest massively in its twin 150 base attack stats. Jirachi's wishes enable rayquaza to get some form of recovery (flying dragons don't roost there too manly for that stuff XD) and the haxy paraflinch combo enables jirachi to break down sturdy walls like lugia and both forms of giratina that tries to wall rayquaza. Once most of the team is paralyzed rayquaza ca start wreaking chaos and sweeping.)]

    [Ground arceus and groudon can not be paralyzed, and are also being able to net super effective hits on the two, but groudon has to be wary of draco meteor as it can ohko it. Extremekiller may murder the pair if it has extreme speed and earthquake and doesnt care too much about paralysis]

    [Groudon and extremekiller can be defeated with skarmory. Scarf ogre can come in on a ground arceus's swords dance and surf it away.]
  17. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Rayquaza will want Hasty most of the time to outspeed non Scarf Reshiram and Zekrom. Even with paralysis support, the opponent might not always be paralysed!

    Jirachi needs a Careful nature to survive longer. That haxy paraflinch combo will more often than not fail to KO both Giratina or Lugia. Iron Head does little damage to them. Giratina can take his time to cripple you with Will-O-Wisp, Lugia can Reflect and both has Pressure which will probably out stall Jirachi. In fact, I think Rayquaza is the one scaring off Giratina not Jirachi beating Giratina.

    Going to wait for the Uber moderators opinion before putting this combination up.
    NOTE: Fireburn please help me put it in the OP if you like the combination. School sucks. Not much time to update it at the moment ;_;
  18. Go10

    Go10 Storm Vanguard !

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    I dont think this combination is worth to be mentionned. Jirachi is useful to spread paralysis and wish, but it's not a true combination. Maybe with something like Lugia + Dialga, you can call it a defensive comb' :/
  19. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    my attention span was too small to make an RMT so i made this instead:

    Show Hide

    [Excadrill @ Air Balloon/ Leftovers, Adamant, Swords Dance / Earthquake / Rock Slide / Rapid Spin + Ho-oh @ Leftovers and Adamant, Substitute / Brave Bird / Sacred Fire / Roost]

    [Offensive / Strategic]

    [Excadrill basically provides Rapid Spin support for Ho-oh, allowing it to function at its full capacity. At the same time, they have decent synergy (they only share Water as a weakness). Excadrill also defeats Zekrom, one of the most common checks to Ho-oh, along with Dialga in the rain, while Ho-oh lures in Kyogre, which takes away the Sandstorm which helps Excadrill so much, and slams it hard with a Brave Bird (if Kyogre comes in on a Substitute). Finally, they both share similar checks such as Giratina, Giratina-O, and Lugia, and the checks are worn down by having to defeat both Ho-Oh and Excadrill. ]

    [Kyogre drowns both of these Pokemon with a Super Effective STAB Water move, along with destroying the sand that helps Excadrill to shine, although it really can't come in on any move. Additionally, Rayquaza easily destroys this combo with a combination of a Super Effective Fire Blast and a very strong STAB Outrage. It even has Air Lock to stop Sand Rush from working on Excadrill.]

    [Kyogre can be dealt with by adding a Gastrodon to the team, or an Arceus Grass. Arceus Grass also deals with Rayquaza, as it can tank any move from Rayquaza usually and OHKO with Ice Beam. Lugia can also be used to deal with Rayquaza. ]
  20. polop

    polop
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    Trickroom the evs that are supposed to be used for rayquaza are 252 spa/252 atk/4 def almost all are in attacking stats since theres no paralysis spikes (lol if troll freak made that i would love to see what happens to starmie) jirachi has to manually spread the chaos. And about jirachi being unable to take walls down (I'm going to hide this because it takes up a lot of space) ...

    Show Hide
    Even though iron head does 72 - 85 (17.31% - 20.43%) with the average being 18.75% to fully defensive lugia, factoring in leftovers thats 12.5 per turn. Meaning it takes an average of 8 hits for lugia to die.

    Paraflinch has to flinch 8 times, 7 if stealth rock is factoredso lugia cannot safely switch into jirachi without the risk of it getting paralyzed. Due to the fact that jirachi can only allow Lugia to move 30% of the time and as a result the chances of it being able to escape the torture are unlikely and the bird will probably die before it can roost. Um it cant paraflinch giratina without being pp stalled out of the heads if its going against the physically defensive variant... but draco meteor from rayquaza ohkoes it. Giratina-o with all defensive evs takes roughly the same percentage from iron head as does lugia 87 - 103 (17.30% - 20.48%) with average damage being taken per turn (18.69) giratina-o only requires 6 iron heads to be killed. 5 Iron heads are nessecary if stealth rock damage has been taken and it also can't safely switch.


    It may seem a bit crazy using no speed ev's at all but here's a log of it working

    Show Hide
    I am Mr.loltest gimmicks and my opponent is white wolf

    Start of turn 1
    Whimsicott used Taunt!
    The foe's Survivor fell for the taunt!

    The foe's Survivor can't use Thunder Wave after the taunt!

    Start of turn 2
    Whimsicott used Substitute!
    Whimsicott made a substitute!

    The foe's Survivor used Power Whip!
    It's not very effective...
    A critical hit!
    Whimsicott's substitute faded!

    Whimsicott restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 3
    Whimsicott used Stun Spore!
    The foe's Survivor is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

    The foe's Survivor is paralyzed! It can't move!

    Whimsicott restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's Survivor's taunt ended!

    Start of turn 4
    Whimsicott used Taunt!
    The foe's Survivor fell for the taunt!

    The foe's Survivor used Power Whip!
    The attack of the foe's Survivor missed!

    Whimsicott restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 5
    Mr.loltestgimmicks called Whimsicott back!
    Mr.loltestgimmicks sent out Rayquaza!

    Rayquaza has Air Lock!
    The foe's Survivor used Power Whip!
    The attack of the foe's Survivor missed!

    Start of turn 6
    Rayquaza used Fire Blast!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Survivor lost 100% of its health!
    The foe's Survivor fainted!
    Rayquaza is hurt by its Life Orb!

    white wolf sent out Chaosblader! (Arceus)

    Start of turn 7
    The foe's Chaosblader used Swords Dance!
    The foe's Chaosblader's Attack sharply rose!

    Rayquaza used Draco Meteor!
    The foe's Chaosblader lost 82% of its health!
    Rayquaza's Sp. Att. sharply fell!
    Rayquaza is hurt by its Life Orb!

    Start of turn 8
    Mr.loltestgimmicks called Rayquaza back!
    Mr.loltestgimmicks sent out Skarmory!

    The foe's Chaosblader used ExtremeSpeed!
    It's not very effective...
    Skarmory lost 105 HP! (31% of its health)

    Skarmory restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 9
    The foe's Chaosblader used Brick Break!
    Skarmory lost 104 HP! (31% of its health)

    Skarmory used Whirlwind!
    The foe's poseidonas was dragged out!
    The foe's poseidonas's Drizzle made it rain!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Skarmory restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 10
    The foe's poseidonas used Water Spout!
    A critical hit!
    Skarmory lost 165 HP! (49% of its health)
    Skarmory fainted!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Mr.loltestgimmicks sent out Whimsicott!

    Start of turn 11
    Whimsicott used Stun Spore!
    The foe's poseidonas is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

    The foe's poseidonas used Water Spout!
    It's not very effective...
    Whimsicott lost 237 HP! (90% of its health)

    Rain continues to fall!
    Whimsicott restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 12
    white wolf called poseidonas back!
    white wolf sent out Chaosblader! (Arceus)

    Whimsicott used Leech Seed!
    The foe's Chaosblader was seeded!

    Rain continues to fall!
    The foe's Chaosblader's health is sapped by leech seed.
    Whimsicott restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 13
    Mr.loltestgimmicks called Whimsicott back!
    Mr.loltestgimmicks sent out Jirachi!

    The foe's Chaosblader used ExtremeSpeed!
    It's not very effective...
    Jirachi lost 84 HP! (20% of its health)

    Rain continues to fall!
    The foe's Chaosblader's health is sapped by leech seed.
    The foe's Chaosblader fainted!
    Jirachi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    white wolf sent out TimeRunner! (Dialga)

    The foe's TimeRunner is exerting its Pressure!

    Start of turn 14
    The foe's TimeRunner used Stealth Rock!
    Pointed stones float in the air around Mr.loltestgimmicks's team!

    Jirachi used Thunder Wave!
    The foe's TimeRunner is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Jirachi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 15
    Jirachi used Iron Head!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's TimeRunner lost 17% of its health!

    The foe's TimeRunner flinched!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Jirachi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's TimeRunner restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 16
    Jirachi used Iron Head!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's TimeRunner lost 16% of its health!

    The foe's TimeRunner used Fire Blast!
    It's super effective!
    Jirachi lost 156 HP! (38% of its health)

    Rain continues to fall!
    Jirachi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's TimeRunner restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 17
    Jirachi used U-turn!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's TimeRunner lost 9% of its health!
    Mr.loltestgimmicks called Jirachi back!
    Mr.loltestgimmicks sent out Arceus-Groun! (Arceus-Ground)
    Pointed stones dug into Arceus-Groun!

    The foe's TimeRunner used Fire Blast!
    Arceus-Groun lost 72 HP! (16% of its health)

    Rain continues to fall!
    The foe's TimeRunner restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 18
    Arceus-Groun used Earthquake!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's TimeRunner lost 75% of its health!
    The foe's TimeRunner fainted!

    Rain continues to fall!
    white wolf sent out Jupiter! (Palkia)

    The foe's Jupiter is exerting its Pressure!

    Start of turn 19
    The foe's Jupiter used Surf!
    It's super effective!
    Arceus-Groun lost 345 HP! (77% of its health)
    Arceus-Groun fainted!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Mr.loltestgimmicks sent out Whimsicott!
    Pointed stones dug into Whimsicott!

    Start of turn 20
    Whimsicott used Stun Spore!
    The foe's Jupiter is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

    The foe's Jupiter is paralyzed! It can't move!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Whimsicott restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 21
    Whimsicott used Leech Seed!
    The foe's Jupiter was seeded!

    The foe's Jupiter used Spacial Rend!
    Whimsicott lost 71 HP! (27% of its health)
    Whimsicott fainted!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Mr.loltestgimmicks sent out Rayquaza!
    Pointed stones dug into Rayquaza!

    Rayquaza has Air Lock!

    Start of turn 22
    Rayquaza used Draco Meteor!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Jupiter lost 100% of its health!
    The foe's Jupiter fainted!
    Rayquaza's Sp. Att. sharply fell!
    Rayquaza is hurt by its Life Orb!

    Rain continues to fall!
    white wolf sent out poseidonas! (Kyogre)

    Mr.loltestgimmicks: this gimmick is actually working...

    Start of turn 23
    Rayquaza used Outrage!
    The foe's poseidonas lost 88% of its health!
    Rayquaza is hurt by its Life Orb!

    The foe's poseidonas used Water Spout!
    It's not very effective...
    Rayquaza lost 21 HP! (5% of its health)

    Rain continues to fall!

    Start of turn 24
    Rayquaza used Outrage!
    The foe's poseidonas lost 11% of its health!
    The foe's poseidonas fainted!
    Rayquaza is hurt by its Life Orb!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Rayquaza calmed down!
    Rayquaza became confused!
    white wolf sent out FeelMyShadow! (Giratina)

    The foe's FeelMyShadow is exerting its Pressure!

    Start of turn 25
    Mr.loltestgimmicks called Rayquaza back!
    Mr.loltestgimmicks sent out Kyogre!
    Pointed stones dug into Kyogre!

    The foe's FeelMyShadow used Substitute!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow made a substitute!

    Rain continues to fall!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 26
    The foe's FeelMyShadow used Calm Mind!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow's Sp. Att. rose!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow's Sp. Def. rose!

    Kyogre used Ice Beam!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow's substitute faded!

    Rain continues to fall!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 27
    The foe's FeelMyShadow used Calm Mind!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow's Sp. Att. rose!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow's Sp. Def. rose!

    Kyogre used Ice Beam!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow lost 29% of its health!

    Rain continues to fall!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 28
    The foe's FeelMyShadow used Calm Mind!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow's Sp. Att. rose!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow's Sp. Def. rose!

    Kyogre used Ice Beam!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow lost 23% of its health!

    Rain continues to fall!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 29
    The foe's FeelMyShadow used Dragon Pulse!
    Kyogre lost 184 HP! (45% of its health)

    Kyogre used Ice Beam!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow lost 27% of its health!

    Rain continues to fall!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 30
    The foe's FeelMyShadow used Dragon Pulse!
    Kyogre lost 170 HP! (42% of its health)
    Kyogre fainted!

    Rain continues to fall!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Mr.loltestgimmicks sent out Jirachi!
    Pointed stones dug into Jirachi!

    Start of turn 31
    Jirachi used Thunder Wave!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!

    The foe's FeelMyShadow used Calm Mind!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow's Sp. Att. rose!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow's Sp. Def. rose!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Jirachi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

    Start of turn 32
    Jirachi used Iron Head!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow lost 18% of its health!

    The foe's FeelMyShadow flinched!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Jirachi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    Mr.loltestgimmicks: go flicnh hax
    white wolf: haxor
    Mr.loltestgimmicks: go 20% chance to not move

    Start of turn 33
    Jirachi used Iron Head!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow lost 18% of its health!

    The foe's FeelMyShadow flinched!

    Rain continues to fall!
    Jirachi restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    The foe's FeelMyShadow restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
    white wolf: omg
    white wolf: fu

    Opponent rage quits from here at being able to not beleive that his soon double dead dragon just got haxed by a haxmaker.
  21. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    Stole this from Jibbles:

    [​IMG]

    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 128 SDef / 128 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Flamethrower
    - Taunt
    - Roar
    - Toxic

    [​IMG]

    Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 240 Atk / 252 SAtk / 16 Spd
    Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Dragon Tail


    Ok this is a really good stallbreaking combo. Heatran uses Taunt, Roar and Toxic to stop stall-based Pokemon, while Giratina uses its great mixed attacks. The two have great synergy together. Heatran takes Ghost-, Dark-, Dragon-, and Ice-type attacks for Giratina, while Giratina is immune to Fighting- and Ground-type attacks and resists Water-type attacks. They can have a little trouble with some offensive stuff between them like Specs Kyogre and other stuff that I cant name off the top of my head (Skymin if it has Earth Power).


    Here's the proper format if you want it:


    Giratran (open)
    [Heatran@Leftovers and Calm, Flamethrower / Taunt / Roar / Toxic + Giratina-O@Griseous Orb and Lonely, Draco Meteor / Hidden Power Fire / Shadow Sneak / Dragon Tail]

    [Stallbreaking]

    [Ok this is a really good stallbreaking combo. Heatran uses Taunt, Roar and Toxic to stop stall-based Pokemon, while Giratina uses its great mixed attacks. The two have great synergy together. Heatran takes Ghost-, Dark-, Dragon-, and Ice-type attacks for Giratina, while Giratina is immune to Fighting- and Ground-type attacks and resists Water-type attacks.]

    [They can have a little trouble with some offensive stuff between them like Specs Kyogre and other stuff that I cant name off the top of my head (Skymin if it has Earth Power). Reshiram is a problem too because it can hit Heatran with Blue Flame (turboblaze ;o;) and Giratina with Draco Meteor.]

    [Ferrothorn and Blissey can somewhat check Kyogre and Skymin. Palkia for Reshiram if you predict right.]
  22. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    meh after seeing this in action it's not that good /:
  23. FunLovin

    FunLovin

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    I'm shocked weather combos aren't being mentioned...

    Strategic:
    [​IMG]
    Groundon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Drought
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Nature: Impish (+Def, - SAtk)
    - EQ
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock
    - Dragon Tail

    [​IMG]
    Reshiram @ Specs
    Ability: Turbo Blaze
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Blue Flare
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Flamethrower

    This combo will set Resh up to be one of, if not the, best special sweeper in Ubers. Groundon can set Stealth Rocks up to weaken pokes when they switch in for easy(ier) Resh sweeps.

    Also for combos with Arceus....

    Offensive:
    [​IMG]
    Mewtwo @ Life Orb
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Psystrike
    - Aura Sphere
    - Fire Blast
    - Calm Mind

    [​IMG]
    Arceus @ Silk Scarf
    EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
    Nature: Adament (+Atk, - SAtk)
    - Extreme Speed
    - Swords Dance
    - Shadow Claw
    - Recover

    There you have it. The best Special Attacker and the Best Physical Attacker in Ubers (in my opinion of course) on one team. Mewtwo can remove Steels with Fire Blast/Arua Sphere so that Arceus can run Recover instead of EQ or Overheat. While Arceus can use Shadow Claw to take out any Ghosts that can outspeed Mewtwo.
  24. trickroom

    trickroom
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    At least expand on your descriptions, and what stops the combination. Please don't say it has no weaknesses at all. What Groudon defeats Reshiram doesn't and things like that, mention it first. If you just post like X is the best sweeper around, and consider it done then i won't go in the list.

    Also are there any Ghost-type in Ubers at all that can outspeed Mewtwo? Plan first before you post. Giratina annoys both Mewtwo and Arceus with Will-O-Wisp or Dragon Tail as an example.
  25. polop

    polop
    is a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    811
    By trickroom's post I'm going with this thread is revived :D. I'll continue to add to this post's incredible number of defensive threads.

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    [Ho-oh@leftovers and Adamant, Sacred fire/ Brave bird / Roost / Substitute + Forretress @leftovers and bold, Rapid spin / Toxic spikes / Spikes /Pain split]

    [​IMG] + [​IMG]

    [Defensive/strategetic]

    [Although at the sight of seeing ho-oh and forry together as team mates automatically gives the idea forry spins for ho-oh + team end of story, there's actually much more to it then that. Ho-oh makes for a pokemon with incredible special bulk that can run a lot attack and still shove off special hits with ease but he suffers from the 4-moveslot syndrome since it can't run toxic because of the syndrome, suffers from a huge stealth rock weakness, and doesnt have the "great" physical bulk by uber standards. Forretress attempts to alleviate these crippling problems by using rapid spin to remove hazards, toxic spikes to make for a psuedo toxic, and abuse his wonderful synergy with ho-oh and physical bulk turning him into a tank that can take several physical blows and pain split the damage off. Ho-oh in return, 2hkoes most of the spin blockers in the game which include; Giratina-o, speccialy defensive giratina-a, and arceus-ghost in the sun. These two combined enable the two to probably make the most defensive spin blocker killing core.]

    [Kyogre can fire off specs spout/surf and drown the two but it doesn't exactly like taking brave birds and is 2hkoed by them. Not only that its possible for its specs spout to be stalled out by a ho-oh at full hp. Rayquaza's unpredictability can result in an outrage on ho-oh or a fire blast on forry, but it cannot afford to overheat ho-oh or be burned by its sacred fire. It also is 2hkoed by brave bird. Lastly physically defensive giratina-a with roar can get past ho-oh being 3hkoed by ho-oh's brave birds and phaze/ pp stall it out but it in turn is set up bait for forry. Mewtwo can maim ho-oh with a psystrike and fling fire at forry, but with LO and its ironically predictable nature it can kill itself from LO. Not only that but it finds a hard time switching in safely as a mewtwo does not enjoy taking a sun boosted STAB sacred fire. Also it should be mentioned that both kyogre and giratina-a cannot afford to be poisoned on the switch or recieve spikes damage as it turns the 3hko on giratina-a into a 2hko (if there are 3 layers of spikes and 1-2 layers of toxic spikes) and severly weakens the power of kyogre's specs spouts to the point where it may actually be taken by ho-oh or a team mate much better. It's also ohkoed by a brave bird 100% of the time after 3 layers of spikes]

    [Scarfkia can take advantage of the lower powered specs spouts and switch into kyogre with ease, threatening it with a thunder, while doing the same to rayquaza or giratina with a spacial rend but it does not enjoy taking ray's +2 extremespeeds. Although probably nonexistent, speccialy defensive groudon can set up the sun for ho-oh weakening water attacks making kyogre's specs spouts bearable while easily shoving off a mix rays draco meteor but it does not enjoy being burned by giratina or taking a calm mind boosted fire blast from mewtwo.]


    Another combo listed underneath.

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    [Mewtwo@leftovers and calm or timid, taunt / will-o-wisp / light screen / recover + Wobbufet@leftovers and calm, counter / mirror coat / encore / safe guard]

    [​IMG] + [​IMG]

    [Wobbufet combination?]

    [While mewtwo and wobbufet do not have very good defensive synergy they do boast the ability to crack and break open cores on both offensive and defensive uber teams. Mewtwo's old 4th gen stall breaker set, can reliably stop many stall teams and prevent status while slowly burning out the opponents health while wobbufet can take hard hits from an offensive team and either trap them into set up or outright ko them. When the two are combined and placed together their unique support moves, makes the two terribly hard to kill and when they do go down they manage to take a part off the opponents team with them. Mewtwo's taunt prevents hazards, status, and phazing that the two do not like and can set up psuedo dual screens with will-o-wisp and light screen for wobbufet. Wobbufet in turn traps and kills choiced pokemon, prevents status that the two hate with a safeguard, and encores support pokemon enabling mewtwo to set up psuedo screens again, or just enforce struggling with taunt. Wobbufet can also trap mewtwo's burned pokemon beind the safety of dual screens courtesy of it's ability, shadow tag, and help the two stall the burn turns out.]

    [Choice specs reshiram, kyogre, and sub tank ho-oh are arguably the only pokes that break the core down with sheer force, with the ladder 2 pokes 2hkoing mewtwo behind a light screen. Reshiram and ho-oh dont even fear a burn from mewtwo due to their part fire typing, and ho-oh is always able to ohko mewtwo assuming it has taken stealth rock or a small amount of damage. Reshiram however cannot ohko wobba if light screen is up and is in turn killed by one of wobba's mirror coats, while ho-oh is safe to attack wobba behind the safety of a sub but cannot sub up in front of wobba in fear of being locked into a sub. Darkrai deserves a special mention as he is able to outspeed mewtwo that do not heavily invest in speed and dark pulse without fearing a mirror coat from wobbufet, and if scarfed, trick one of the two resulting in one member being crippled. Xatu and espeon also deserve special mentions since they reflects all the attacks that wobba and mewtwo have but the ladder really cant hurt mewtwo or wobba while the cat can baton pass +6cm's infront of the core.]

    [Chansey is able to provide wish support and heal statuses that come at the two, as well as safely eat modest specs spouts and flares behind the safety of a light screen. It can toxic kyogre and reshiram severly crippling them and cutting their lifespan. Choice scarf skymin can beat and take the trick of a darkrai, and flinch hax it and all magic bouncers to death while hitting kyogre hard with a seed flare. Sub ho-oh variants are best countered by a bulky ghostceus that can either roar ho-oh and make it take sr damage or create a psuedo perish trap with wobba's shadow tag.]

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