Ubers is now a tier; a new Metagame called Anything Goes is added; M-Ray is banned from Ubers

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ScraftyIsTheBest

Clangorous Soulblazer
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#51
Oh yeah, this is a point. Will things under the Ubers usage threshold drop to OU, or a BL between OU and Ubers, or will Ubers still remain as a banlist from OU as well as being a tier?
No, from what I read it seems this tier is still not based on usage. I think what this decision means is that Ubers will now hold its own suspect tests and have a banlist of its own like the other tiers do.
 

AM

Free Bloo
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#53
.. well this is interesting. Definitely, with the previous ubers philosophy, this would have been highly inappropriate. I think that creating AG is a realistic solution that will probably piss off just enough people.

So the question which is currently only partiall answered is what would be suitable criteria for banning in ubers?

We do for sure have to see how it develops, but as a tournament metagame i would have banned geomancy/shadow tag/evasionpass in some form. In a metagame with ubers' previous philosophy, I'd probably not suspect evasionpass or geomancy even. So, whilst ubers is a tournament metagame, how ridiculous are things going to have to be to be removed? Fireburn (not sure if you can answer this yet but if you can I'd be interested to hear), in the previous ubers metagame, with the current ubers philosophy (I'm assuming you've discussed with chaos) would you have banned or suspected any of shadow tag, gengarite, geomancy, any element comprising in evasionpass?
This was established in the OP more or less as sure tell signs of what would or would not be banned from Ubers. Obviously the tier leaders can confirm this but there were some general guidelines established by chaos just to give you an idea.
 

Disaster Area

formerly Piexplode
#56
This was established in the OP more or less as sure tell signs of what would or would not be banned from Ubers. Obviously the tier leaders can confirm this but there were some general guidelines established by chaos just to give you an idea.
Aye I just felt they weren't very explicit, and the previous XY metagame's much more well defined, so commentary on this would give a clearer picture of how we expect ORAS Ubers to be managed
 
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Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
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#58
My only request atm is that people won't use this tier to actively search for stuff to ban from Ubers. Mega Ray just such an extreme powerspike that something like this had to happen, but it doesn't have to apply to other things (and frankly, if it does, we should just unban all of them and accept our new power level).

On the bright side I can finally build stall again.
 

Colonel M

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#60
This I feel was something that had to be done at the end of the day and I approve the staff for doing so. I just can't believe it's been so long since something like this was originally talked about (making Ubers an official meta) and now its fruition has come to this. But I agree with Jibaku on this:
My only request atm is that people won't use this tier to actively search for stuff to ban from Ubers. Mega Ray just such an extreme powerspike that something like this had to happen, but it doesn't have to apply to other things (and frankly, if it does, we should just unban all of them and accept our new power level).
With the exception of Shadow Tag of course :P
 
#62
I think this is the right direction for Smogon to take at this time, and only further reinforces Smogon as the best option for Pokemon fans seeking a battling philosophy. This will entirely open up the Ubers metagame to communal decisions on what is best for it, without taking away one of the most fundamental aspects to Smogon for a lot of players (being a philosophy on Pokemon battling, wherein all 'mons have their place somewhere). This not only allows for the Ubers metagame to be more open to get rid of overcentralizing and broken* elements without people fearing where something's gonna go or whatever, but it reinstates a new tier that is, spiritually, what Ubers was meant to be all along allowing Ubers itself to be a nice, balanced meta. While perhaps a bit redundant, that's how I feel. I'm very glad this decision was made.

** obviously the pokes are broken anyway but you know what i mean.
 

drcossack

I'm everywhere, you ain't never there
#63
I would personally like to see a suspect test to find out of a complex ban preventing Mega Rayquaza from holding items in the Ubers metagame, and see how that goes. Perhaps it won't be as overcentralizing that way.
That's part of the problem. Yes, Mega Rayquaza is weaker without LO, there's no denying that. The problem is, it's still capable of ripping teams apart - it's still got base 180 Attack, Swords Dance, Priority, and Dragon Ascent. Here's two calcs I did just now on IRC, both with SD/without LO:

Rayquaza-Mega's Dragon Ascent vs Dialga (214 - 252 HP) Damage: 62.57% - 73.68%
Rayquaza-Mega's Dragon Ascent vs Mewtwo-Mega-Y (670 - 790 HP) Damage: 189.27% - 223.16% | 100% Chance to OHKO

Both had min HP.

For the things that do outspeed it, they'll likely get KO'd by the +2 ESpeed.
 
#64
"252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Delta Stream Rayquaza: 266-314 (75.7 - 89.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO - lives an ice beam from this thing and sets up or kills"

This almost made me shit my pants. It can survive an Ice Beam from Mega Mewtwo Y! The ban is very justified and by the other comments that follow, it seems that Mega Rayquaza battles aren't a lot of fun. Still surprised at how Game Freak even dared to make such a powerful 'mon. Step aside, Arceus. Mega Rayquaza is the new God of Pokémon.
 
#66
I have never expected to see this day.
For one, I hate things getting banned in Ubers, because that is the closest thing where people can use any pokemon and still have some degree of competition. It is a overcentralising metagame that is actually fun.
However, Mega Rayquaza is just...the definition of broken. It cannot be suspected because it is not uncompetitive in a sense that no player has control. There is control, but in a sense were one guy has a knife and the other one can fire laser beams from all part of his body.
I wonder, who would win?
 

Srn

I use Focus Punch like I do my women: Unprotected!
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#67
So does this tier warrant its own official room on PS??? Seeing as the ladder's already up
 
#70
I am really happy with the creation of AG. I never wanted M Ray to be banned from everything except hackmons, so its a relief. I can finally use other not-so-broken Megas in Ubers now. :-)

I am really going to enjoy AG as a tier. There is something very fun about doing anything you want and not have your opponent shout abuse at you. Interestingly Articuno might be good in AG due to it KOing everything in 2 moves (mind reader + OHKO move). Its a big lol that a PU mon could be viable in AG.
 
#71
I never thought I'd see the day when "banned from ubers" was used seriously.

but yay, finally a no specie clause legit based meta. I can finally use 6 shiny palkia team
 
#74
Something I'm curious about is does this mean Dragon Ascent is banned, or is it still usable by Base Rayquaza in Ubers? Since technically you could go the entire battle without pressing the Mega Evolution button. That said, Mega Stones have been banned rather than the capability to Mega Evolve and Dragon Ascent is essentially the equivalent to a Stone. But of course, it's different in that it's a move.
So I just have to ask if it's Dragon Ascent or the capability to Mega Evolve Rayquaza that's banned. I won't really mind either way, just seeking clarification.
 
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