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Ubers Sand

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by GuitaristShadow, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. GuitaristShadow

    GuitaristShadow

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    Messages:
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    Hello. This is my first post on these forums. This is my sand team that has put me at a peak of a 1798 Rank on the PokemonShowdown Battle Simularor. Anyway here is the team.

    Tyranitar @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 Atk / 252 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Crunch
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Dragon Dance

    Tyranitar is The sand setter on this team (Obviously) and a hazard setter (Also Obviously). He has focus sash to keep him from being OHKO and allowing him to get up the Stealth Rocks. Dragon Dance is one of my favorite moves for tyranitar as it boosts both attack and speed allowing him to hit hard late game with both Earthquake and Crunch.

    Excadrill @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Iron Head
    - Swords Dance
    - RapidSpin

    Excadrill is my sweeper of the team. With a base attack stat of 135 and a speed stat of 88 he is a magor threat. His ability Sand Rush then doubles his speed stat making his speed over 500 and his attack 405. If he gets up a swords dance he can boost his attack even more and giving him an almost guarentee sweep with Earthquake and Iron Head. Oh and guess what? Iron Head has a 30% chance to make the opponet flinch.

    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 232 Def / 252 HP / 24 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Roost
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Whirlwind

    Skarmory is another hazard setter. he can wall almost any physical attacker and get up the spikes and if Tyranitar has SR up The hazard damage will be unreal. He can then use roost to heal all the damage he took while setting hazards and then whirlwind away. He then has taunt to cripple other Hazard setters.

    Garchomp (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sand Veil
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance
    - Fire Fang

    Garchomp is yet another sweeper. With Jolly nature his speed is pretty decent and if he gets up a swords dance his attack stat will be amazing. Sand Veil boosts his evasion making the opponets moves miss more often. Outrage is his most powerfull move as it completley destroys things such as Giritina, Shaymin-S and Palkia. Earthquake is his ground type STAB move and Fire Fang is a counter for Ferrothorn and Fortress witch both seem to be somewhat common.

    Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - ShadowClaw
    - Recover
    - Swords Dance
    - ExtremeSpeed

    Arceus is yet another heavy hitter. With adamant nature his attack stat is pretty good making Extreme Speed hit somewhat decent. Recover is a very handy move as it can heal any damage taken while setting up a SwordsDance.

    Shaymin-Sky @ Life Orb
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Air Slash
    - Seed Flare
    - Substitute
    - Earth Power

    The final Pokemon on this team is the Amazing and Incredible Shaymin-S. Serene Grace as its ability is VERY VERY handy. It boosts the chance for Seed Flare and EarthPower to lower the targets Special Defence if they do not faint leaving there a very good chance for the next move to KO. Air Slash's Flinch rate is also boosted by SereneGrace witch is very handy. Substitute can be used when predicted switches happen. Shaymin is also a Counter for the weather producers Groudon and Kyogre leaving shaymin the most helpfull member on the entire team.
  2. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    Running no bulk on Tyranitar is a bad idea. Excadrill needs sand support to be effective, and Garchomp also prefers to have it. With no bulk Tyranitar will die quickly, giving the opponent the freedom to use whatever weather he likes. Even with Focus Sash, if it switches out after getting hit and the opponent gets SR up, Tyranitar is dead and your sand is gone. Dragon Dance is also unlikely to be effective; even after a DD (while you set up, something will either hit hard or they will switch in a counter, which can outspeed and KO you, or walls you) you're slower than half the offensive Pokemon in the metagame. I recommend using the standard tank set outlined here. It gives your team some much needed bulk and helps prevent you losing your crucial weather.

    I recommend running Rock Slide over Iron Head on Excadrill. It gets much better coverage alongside Earthquake, hitting the flying types that Earthquake can't touch super effectively. I also think a third attacking move would serve you better than substitute, as even with substitute, you still stand a bad chance of beating Giratina(-O), which is the main Pokemon substitute really helps you against

    I recommend running Taunt instead of Brave Bird on Skarmory. The damage it does is a joke in Ubers, and Taunt users are very rare so that shouldn't be much of an issue either. Taunt makes opposing Ferrothorn useless against you and can shut down certain Giratina sets. I also don't know why you're running 24 speed; anything slower than Skarmory (no one uses anything other than Skarmory with base 70 speed in Ubers) runs no speed investment, so those EVs won't help you outspeed anything. Also, putting the Def EVs in SDef is generally more useful. Not only are most of the attacks in the tier Specially based, but Skarmory already has great Defense.

    Garchomp can be cool, but why did you opt for leftovers? If something is going to hit it, it'll usually be with a move that can OHKO it, so leftovers won't help you much. Life Orb is better for more damage, while a Haban Berry would let it survive a dragon attack and OHKO back.

    I don't like Arceus' set. Recover can be handy, but the coverage you lose without Shadow Claw is too much. It literally can't do anything against Giratina-O, while it can't hit Giratina (which can burn and then phaze it) hard enough to break through it. Lugia also walls it hard. Also, running 252 Speed on Arceus is very ineffective; not only do you fail to speed tie other Arceus formes that run a speed nature (no one runs 252 with a neutral nature), but the whole point of Arceus is that it relies on a priority move to sweep most things, which means that it hardly needs speed investment and can instead invest in bulk to set up more easily. Try a spread with 16 Speed and 240 HP, which allows you to outspeed all neutral natured base 90s (pretty much all unscarfed base 90s) while giving you far more bulk to set up with.

    Shaymin-S can be fun, but is by no means a weather counter. Not only does it risk death or paralysis any time it switches in on most Kyogre (Water Spout KOs, Ice Beam KOs, Thunder hits hard and has a 30% chance to paralyze, even Specs Surf is very dangerous), but no one in their right mind keeps Groudon or Kyogre in against Shaymin-S (except Scarf Kyogre, which beats Shaymin-S if it's locked into Water Spout or Ice Beam). You also can't carelessly switch Shaymin-S around because between SR, Life Orb and Substitute it dies very quickly, while Kyogre and Groudon can switch in and out far more often.

    This also brings me to a major point about your team; Scarf Kyogre sweeps you hard. All the rest of its team needs to do is handle Arceus (which is pretty manageable between 5 Pokemon) and weaken Tyranitar. Water Spout OHKOs everything other than Arceus in rain, while rain means that your only Pokemon with real revenge killing speed (Excadrill) is easily outrun. This highlights two big flaws about your team: it has no good Kyogre check and no Choice Scarf user.

    To prevent Kyogre from wrecking your team, I suggest using Latias over Shaymin-S. Any of Latias' usual Ubers sets will serve to handle most Kyogre, although the offensive pivot set probably fits your team best. Latias also has great utility otherwise, adding some much needed bulk to your currently rather frail team (although if you change Tyranitar's set it will become very bulky), while also being a quite powerful, fast attacker.

    A Choice Scarf user is also something essentially every team should have, as they are usually the best answer to very powerful, fast sweepers (Excadrill cannot be relied on as your only revenge killer, as it becomes far too slow in any weather other than sand, while also being unable to do anything about Rayquaza which negates its ability). One option is to slap a Choice Scarf on Garchomp and have it run Outrage / Earthquake / Dragon Claw / Stone Edge. Alternatively, Genesect and Palkia are great options; Genesect is generally regarded as the best Choice Scarf user, mostly thanks to its speed and U-Turn, but Palkia helps to check Kyogre and has amazing coverage.
  3. MasterTotoro

    MasterTotoro

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    1. Scarf Palkia over Shaymin S would help with your water weakness, speed deficiency while checking weather starters. The standard Smogon set will do fine.

    2.Having hazards with no spinblocker is pretty bad. I would recommend a Calm Mind Arceus-Ghost over Arceus. Having CM gives your team more Special attacks to bust through walls that give your team problems. Running Swords Dance just stacks attacking types.

    3. Change Skarmory to the standard Uber set, Taunt over Brave Bird like Blue Jay said.

    4. Same goes with Tyranitar, see Blue Jay's post.

    5. Run Haban Berry or Life Orb on Garchomp, Leftovers is only useful with Substitute on offensive pokes. ( In most cases)

    6. Rapid Spin is part of Excadrill's niche. Run it over Substitute, the only is useful is against Dragon Tail Giratinas. Spin just helps so much more. Personally, I would run Lefties on Excadrill because I like to use it to be able to spin or damage enemies without recoil (mainly spamming spins against Forretress or Skarmory) and I haven't found LO needed. If you need it than you can keep it.
  4. GuitaristShadow

    GuitaristShadow

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    The only of the changes i was willing to make was: Giving Tyranitar more bulk, Giving Excadrill RapidSpin, Making Arceus, Arceus-Ghost with ShadowClaw, Giving Skarmory Taunt over Bravebird and Giving Garchomp Life Orb.
  5. Blue Jay

    Blue Jay The notorious J Lube
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    Those changes should all improve the effectiveness of the team. However, it will remain very vulnerable to Kyogre until you run a solid check. Groudon can be troublesome too.
  6. Gogeta

    Gogeta

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    Dude seriously, listen to Blue Jay, lol. Whilst those changes are all good, Kyogre still completely wrecks the team. First rule of Ubers is get a Kyogre check. Second rule of Ubers is get another one.

    Change Arceus Normal to either Latias, Latios, or Arceus Water, make Skarmory sp.def, and make Skymin Choice Scarf.. You don't need another physical sweeper on top of Garchomp and Excadrill. The three pokemon I suggest give you a much needed back up on the special side, as well as checking Kyogre very well. You can run any set you want on them, just make them bulky enough to stand up to Kyogre. Skarmory doesn't need physical defense to check Extreme Killer, which Excadrill does under sand anyway. It does need sp.def EVs in order to switch in to the Draco meteors and Judgments in the tier. Finally you'll lack a revenge killer outside of sand if you change Arceus, so make Skymin choice scarf. It's basically the fastest weatherless poke in the tier, meaning Scarf Kyogre is a lot more manageable. It can also serve as a last ditch check to any scarfer that is rampaging your team by flinchaxing everything. Just to note though, Skymin CANNOT switch in to Kyogre, it gets decimated by like everything, lol.

    Also, while 1798 is a decent rating, don't feel content with that. Push yourself to hit around 1900, and then you'll be playing against high level opponents consistently, allowing you to change your team to compete at the top of the ladder. Maybe you'll run into my SD Ludicolo one day :toast:
  7. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Yeah, you really shouldn't be too stubborn when it comes to replacing mons. Blue Jay's given you some excellent advice, and you really should listen. I'd like to give advice, but seeing as you haven't updated the OP, I can't really tell what changes you've implemented, and which ones you haven't. However, I'll just make some assumptions based on your second post.

    It looks like you kept Dragon Dance on Tyranitar. That... sucks. Tyranitar at +1 will still be outsped and stomped. Hard. You have one weather inducer and one highly dependent weather sweeper (Excadrill). If you lose the weather war, then you're screwed, so both a defensive spread and a defensive set is optimal.

    Arceus-Normal doesn't really help out your team synergy wise, and you have too many physically-based attackers and only one specially-based attacker. Therefore, I'd run CM Arceus-Ghost > Swords Dance Arceus-Ghost, as special Arceus-Ghost is much more efficient (CM is more powerful than SD after a boost due to Judgment's base power and Shadow Claw's base power, and has a Special Defense boost as well), has perfect coverage, and is more durable (Calm Mind's Special Defense boost and Recover).

    Shaymin-S is really not that impressive, and is easily revenge killed by priority / Choice Scarf users and cannot take down the weather starters reliably (Ice Beam from Kyogre, Stone Edge / Fire Punch from Groudon). You don't have any Water-type resists either, so I'd personally suggest All-Out Attacker Latios, as it can check the weather starters and retaliate with Grass Knot.

    Garchomp is probably best used with a Choice Scarf, and I'd replace it with Choice Scarf Genesect, to avoid being weak to Darkrai.

    I'd highly recommend you try to beef up your explanations. Can you give us reasons as to why you chose certain Pokemon and how they fit on the team? How does one Pokemon wear down another's checks and counters in order to facilitate a sweep? I say this because a lot of your descriptions are really obvious: we know what Dragon Dance does, we know what Focus Sash is, we know Excadrill's base stats and its ability, we know what Serene Grace boosts, etc. etc. etc. Three lines of text is standard, so you may wish to add more content in general.
  8. MasterTotoro

    MasterTotoro

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    You still need a Kyogre check. Timid Skymin can't kill Kyogre without a crit or flinches. Modest only OHKOs with Seed Flare after rocks against 0 HP Kyogre. Listen to the raters, we are just trying to help. Also, update the original post with your changes please. There is an edit button at the bottom of the post.
  9. GuitaristShadow

    GuitaristShadow

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    Yeah sorry about the original post thingy. i got it changed now. And i really would like to keep shaymin..
  10. Donkey

    Donkey

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    cool team try scarf palkia over garchomp, and CM arceus ghost instead of SD
  11. GuitaristShadow

    GuitaristShadow

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    Well wouldent Garchomp in sand be better then palkia? And yeah ill change arceus due to lack of speacial attackers.
  12. blitzlefan

    blitzlefan shake it off!
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    No, because your current team has nothing that can reliably take Water-type attacks and Garchomp is frailer and weaker than Palkia. Palkia can serve as a revenge killer, weather check, etc. and is your way around Kyogre (because Shaymin-S can't check it reliably).
  13. GuitaristShadow

    GuitaristShadow

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    Alright ill try palkia. Any sets you can reccomend?
  14. cfdu1202

    cfdu1202

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    Palkia@Choice Scarf/Haban Berry
    Trait: Pressure
    Ev: 252SpAtk/4SpDef/252Spe
    Nature: Timid
    - Spacial Rend
    - Fire Blast
    - Thunder
    - Surf/Hydro Pump

    It fixes your Kyogre weakness, and it's immediately threatening unlike Garchomp. Choice Scarf is a better item if you want to check ScarfOgre better, and fares better against Genesect as well, but Haban Berry palkia is one of the best lure in the Uber metagame, and can defeat many troublesome pokemon such as Rayquaza thinking you're locked into Fire Blast.
  15. GuitaristShadow

    GuitaristShadow

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    ok thanks
  16. Shaymin 492

    Shaymin 492

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    Dude, just change Shaymin. It's way too vulnerable to scarfers (trust me, when I was an extreme noob I used non-scarf Shaymin, and it did absolutely NOTHING), and scarfing Shaymin won't help your team. As everyone has said before, GET A KYOGRE COUNTER. If you can't do that, at least get a check, like Scarf Palkia (switch out Shaymin). I like this set:

    Palkia@Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pressure
    Ev: 252SpAtk/4SpDef/252Spe
    Nature: Timid
    - Spacial Rend
    - Draco Meteor
    - Thunder
    - Surf

    It fixes your Kyogre weakness, and gives you a very nice revenge killer and late-game cleaner. Basically, Palkia can function well in any weather, and honestly, 1798 isn't that great considering how bad the Ubers ladder on PS is.

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